Fefesmom

[elizabeth11]

I agree with Karma.

 

You do have a good therapist who is helping you.

 

You know what is best and right for you.

 

[fefesmom]

As usual, not sure this is the best thread for me to post. But here goes.

I am off effexor xr now for going on 9 months. I feel worse in the past few weeks; not sleeping well, waking up and can't get back to sleep for an hour or two; cry a lot. For a while it seemed that MBCT was helping but I find I have to check my thoughts every few minutes; they come that fast and furiously. I am so tempted to see a shrink and get back on some ad but I really don't want to.

I did go off effexor xr cold turkey; do you think that contributes to my depression now. How do I know if I need to go back on them? I won't go back on effexor xr; I have lost over 30 lobs since going off them and hardly binge at all. So much for ads helping with eating problems.

Reading a good book about bingeing and bulima called brain over binge.

As I write this I feel better. Once I am alone again I feel so sad, so hopeless, such a loser.

Argh. Should I go back on a low dose of effexor and then taper more slowly - don't really want to do that either though.

Read a post here about another site, beyond meds I think about letting yourself feel sad etc. and not trying to "fix" it right away.

Oh, any comments, suggestions, support will be greatly appreciated, as always.

FM

[fefesmom]

Hi. Feeling better now. I read a short article I had found (who remembers where) by Tara Brach on radical acceptance. Oh, just got the article; it was on her blog and you can find it here: http://blog.tarabrach.com/2012/05/accepting-absolutely-everything.html.It is so helpful, life-affirming to read it and focus on this particular minute rather than going down the path of forever or even later. Greetings to all. FM

Edited June 29, 2012 by Altostrata
fixed link

[Altostrata]

fefes, I moved your posts here, to your topic.

 

You most likely are suffering withdrawal syndrome from Effexor cold turkey, with waves of feeling bad and windows of feeling better.

 

You might read this entire topic from the beginning, to see how your symptoms have changed and many of your questions have been answered.

[fefesmom]

Hi Alto. Thanks for moving the post. Do you think I just have to tough it out now; it seems way to late to go back on a low dose of effexor. Do you agree? FM

[Skyler]

How do I know if I need to go back on them? I won't go back on effexor xr; I have lost over 30 lobs since going off them and hardly binge at all. So much for ads helping with eating problems.

Oh, any comments, suggestions, support will be greatly appreciated, as always.

FM

 

Hi Fefe.. I've just read where you made a similar comment to the one above about going back on antidepressants to treat depression (correct me if I'm wrong here.) I'm not sure how much reading you have done, but I'm wondering if you realize there are many who question whether antidepressants have more than a placebo effect in most cases, and work for a limited time at best. Robert Whitakers' Anatomy of an Epidemic for one has an excellent section on ADs, and Irving Kirsches work, The Emperor's New Drugs, Exploding the Antidepressant Myth is a great read. I don't know that there are any antidepressants you could count on not to stimulate your appetite, and having had the tenacity to stick out the withdrawal issues you have had, I know you are not wanting to go back on. ~S

[Altostrata]

fefes, please re-read your topic.

 

There's no telling if Effexor or another antidepressant can help you. If your nervous system has been sensitized by withdrawal, you may react badly to any psychiatric drug.

 

It's up to you.

 

As you know, I think you should move to Florida, where you're much happier.

[Nikki]

From what I've read, going cold turkey from Effexor has got to be a tough road, even for people who did a slow taper. Effexor takes it's time in letting people go.

 

I tell people to stay far away from Effexor, Paxil and numerous other meds. Once on them it's very difficult to get off.

 

Additionally (Alto talks about this) after being off a drug for a period of time, the window for it to kick back into action stops. It is no longer effective. Ask her about it. So there are really no guarantees of it's effectiveness which would then leave you in having to WD from it all over again.

 

I understand your depression. Been there. I am currently tapering from Celexa (2nd attempt), and there are many times I think about introducing another medication. No one wants to feel depressed.

 

Maybe you can look thru the posts here and talk to other people who are or have gotten off Effexor.

 

Feel for you

Nikki

[fefesmom]

Thanks to Alto, Nikki and Schuyler. Your posts are very helpful. Every time I feel really bad I think I better go back on meds, then I come to this wonderful site and feel better and am so glad I didn't go back on. I have to remember this tendency of mine and reread your wise words. Thank you doesn't convey my appreciation; just know that you help me cope with this wd which I never thought would be so hard. I also have to remember that I have "tools" now on how to deal with everyday issues that I didn't have when I went on the ads so many years ago. And the ads never help anyone learn anything except to keep taking them. So, again, my deep gratitude to you and to all the people who are struggling, winning, falling back, getting up etc. Love from FM

[Altostrata]

Yes, fefes, sometimes happiness doesn't come to us -- we have to go toward it!

[fefesmom]

Hi all. The past few days I have slowed down on purpose; said no to things/people I didn't want to do/see - walking slower and enjoying the gorgeous weather here - not answering emails five seconds after I get them. It has really helped. I thought that I was over withdrawal (about 8.5 months) but think I am over the worst of the physical symptoms. Now still dealing with depression-like symptoms which are different than when I was "really" depressed years ago. Now every time I start a negative thought I take a few breaths to bring me back to the present and that helps even though I have trouble accepting that I will probably have to do this for the rest of my life (but maybe less frequently). I have lost about 30 pounds since going off Effexor and feel much better. I do have "binge attacks" and deal with those too. I do not want to gain the weight back for several reasons. I guess what I am trying to say is that this wd process is much longer than I thought and than I would like. Having gone off effexor cold turkey I do think I have been lucky not to have had worse physical reactions. Well, good night and my best hope and wishes to all. FM

[Altostrata]

fefes, you are an inspiration. Thank you.

[spectio]

Hi, Fefesmom! This two steps forward and one step back thing is maddening, isn't it. (or is it one step forward and two steps back? Always get that confused!!).

Did you ever have problems with anxiety once you c/t'd? I envy you having rational thoughts about not trying to satisfy everyone, all the time! I have what I could best explain as a chimera between anxiety and depression. Always anxious when someone needs me to do something and enough depression that when I don't, I feel guilty about not helping. That drives me to try helping which causes more anxiety. (WHAT?)

 

Anyway, really think you are making TREMENDOUS progress and I am sooo happy for you!!! If you look back at your posts, you are doing really well on so many fronts! Wow, you've lost 30 llbs!!

 

Kudos to you, Fefesmom!! A sure sign of progress!,

 

Love to you and Fefe!

[fefesmom]

Hi Alto and Spectio. Thanks so much for your votes of confidence. I couldn't have done it without your specific help as well as the site generally. I remember all the positive feedback and support I get from you when the dark shadows threaten to take over. So far, so good. Love from FM

[fefesmom]

Just want to let people know this: I have tried many things to alleviate depression: mbct, medication, therapy, cbt, meditation,books ad infinitum. Now in a dbt class and it seems so much kinder, to me, that cbt. It is a lot of work and effort and must continue "forever". I have to get through wanting to/believing I need to "fix" myself and learn to be more accepting and less judgmental. When I can do that, even for a few moments, I do, indeed feel better. I had read about dbt but it didn't "sink in" until I started this class which is not a therapy group but more of an overview of the principles and actions that we can use day-to-day. My depression comes and goes and I can remind myself that depressed days don't last and neither do good ones. I still think I am "cured" when I have one or two good days and have to remind myself of the temporary nature of even good days. On and on it goes. Hoping this may be of interest/help to some of you. FM

[Altostrata]

Fefes, you continue to do brilliantly! Big hugs.

 

Please start a topic about DBT in Symptoms and Self-care, it sounds like it could be very important to a lot of people.

[Nikki]

What is DBT? Fefe it sounds like it is helping you along....good news:)

[Jemima]

What is DBT? Fefe it sounds like it is helping you along....good news:)

 

Ditto the question! I'd like to know what DBT is too, as I tend to get into really sad, down-on-myself moods.

[Skyler]

 

What is DBT? Fefe it sounds like it is helping you along....good news:)

 

Ditto the question! I'd like to know what DBT is too, as I tend to get into really sad, down-on-myself moods.

 

Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) If you Google it you will find a great deal of into, but I'd head here first.

[fefesmom]

Hi. Sorry it's taken me so long to get back here about DBT. Now that I've been to four of the six classes, I have changed my opinion. I still think it can be helpful but I do tend to see it as "gimmicks" to kind of trick oneself into getting out of the dumps. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I don't think it really helps you get really into what you are feeling and learn to be okay with whatever you are feeling and cry if you have to (which I do a lot). DBT is more of a distraction which I think can be okay many times and certainly has helped me.

Over the almost 11 months I've been off Effexor (can't believe it has been almost a year) I don't think DBT is the only/best way to go.

I find I am over the physical effects of withdrawal (as far as I can tell) and am left with deep sadness, despair, loss and I cry a lot and have bursts of anger at various situations (the anger flares up and dies down quickly but I don't like it). I have learned to pull over to the side of the road if I get upset while driving. I cry or holler out loud and sit for a few minutes and then feel better and go on my way.

I think you can google DBT and Marsha Linehan for information. Also Amazon has some books on it; a workbook and a diary. I also think if you "do" DBT you can spend all your time logging things and checking of what you have done.

This wonderful site is as good as or better than any CBT, DBT, or other methods I have tried.

The whole idea of radical acceptance (a book by Tara Brach) has been really helpful to me learning to be myself rather than distract myself.

However, in the beginning of my withdrawal, for many months, the distraction approach was extremely helpful. Especially changing the channel which I learned here.

Hope this ramble is of some help to someone/people.

FM

[Barbarannamated]

FM,

 

Very interesting feedback on DBT. I've done variations on it and CBT had the same response as you - none addressed my underlying issues and patterns that took root long ago. Distraction techniques were counterproductive for me.

 

Thanks for sharing that.

[fefesmom]

I sent a PM to alto but I didn't hear back (I also don't know if it ever got to Alto or even how to pick up a response if one was sent). So here goes again.

I am coming up on one year off Effexor (10/6/12).

I went off CT.

I know that was dumb/ignorant now but I didn't know it then.

I think I am over all the physical effects, fortunately.

I am now dealing with, or not dealing with, the same issues I had when I went on the ad in 1996 after my mother died.

Do you think this is withdrawal or just returning to the original issues?

I am sorry to keep harping on this, but I need to know what people think, especially Alto.

I will not go back on an ad if I can help it and I know it is too late to reinstate Effexor even if I wanted to.

Any replies, support, information I will really appreciate.

FM

[peggy]

Hi Fefesmom,

 

I am sorry to hear that you are still not feeling well. It is probably not completely possible to say whether you are feeling withdrawal or just a return to the condition that put you on effexor in the first place. Either way, the treatment is still probably the same .... time...it is possible that if you never dealt with the issues around your mother dying, that they are just reemerging. After all antidepressants don't DO anything to help us deal with grief, loss, depression or whatever, they just distance us from our thoughts and feelings. So, eventually we have to do the housework, pay the piper (or whatever analogy you want to use) to move forward.

 

Reading your thread, I think you HAVE made progress, but sometimes we can't see the evidence when we are in the middle, we need to step back and take an objective look, or get others to help.

[tezza]

Hi FM

 

I'm not sure about you but I'm feeling what I felt when I was put on Meds and I'm still tapering. I'm on low dosages. My main issue is loneliness.

 

If you think you feel the same as you did prior to starting then it sounds like you may be dealing with same issues again. Are you lonely, grieving...? That's what I am dealing with. It's like I delayed my healing process of grieving and dealing with my brother's death and now I'm having to deal with it since my emotions are no longer numbed by the drugs.

 

I hope you get peace in your heart soon.

 

Hugs,

 

Tezza

[fefesmom]

Peggy and Tezza: Thank you so much for your replies. I do think you are correct - that I now am dealing with what the ads covered up/numbed so many years ago.

Yes, I am lonely but it doesn't feel like a loneliness that can be filled by others. It is more like a loneliness of grief.

I feel so supported by this site and in particular by your responses.

With support and knowing this site and all the people are there, really helps me face what I have to feel and get through. I so need to be patient with myself through this too.

Hugs and kisses

FM

[tezza]

Yes, you are right, it is a loneliness that can't be filled by others. I'm still lonely after my husband comes home. It seems it may be compounded by withdrawal. I can't help feeling that it would've been easier to deal with the grief and loss if I'd done that in the beginning. It's a normal process that didn't need medication.

 

We all need each other. We can get through this by supporting each other. I'm very grateful for this forum.

 

Love,

 

Tezza

[fefesmom]

Hi Tezza.

Today is the Jewish New Year so I am planning that it is also the beginning of a new chapter in my living without ads and dealing with the grief the ads smothered. Let's hope so.

Love, FM

[tezza]

Hi FM

 

I remember strength and courage coming through in some of your previous posts. I know you can do it, make this a new beginning.

 

Love and hugs,

 

Tezza

[Altostrata]

Fefes, I answered your personal message.

 

When you joined us in November 2011, you had similar concerns. You may be vulnerable to feeling low because of prolonged withdrawal syndrome, or you may be vulnerable because that's your disposition.

 

But you've come a long way, learning many new skills to manage your emotional states. There are times you feel better, there are times you feel worse. Are you thinking you're not perfect enough? Did we talk about some kind of self-acceptance practice?

[fefesmom]

Hi Alto. Where would I find the personal message? I didn't get notified of it. Not sure how it works. Please advise.

Thanks for your reply here. Oh, perfection is my nemesis. Argh.

Any ideas for self-acceptance practice? All I know is radical acceptance. Any others will be appreciated.

Also, although I am signed up to receive emails when a topic I want to get notified about is submitted, I haven't been getting any notifications. What can I do to remedy this??

Fefe says thanks too for helping me through these times so I can take good care of her.

Meow. FM

[Jemima]

Hi Alto. Where would I find the personal message? I didn't get notified of it. Not sure how it works. Please advise.

 

Go to the upper right hand corner of your computer screen. There should be an avatar there (usually a blank silhouette) with your user name to the right. Go farther right, and click on the first downward arrow and you'll see a menu that includes "Messenger". All recent PMs sent to you should be there and older ones will be under "My Conversations."

 

Now, go back to that downward arrow and click on "Settings". This will bring you to a screen where you can set general things like your time zone, and to the left there are other categories, such as "Notification Options", where you can set up all kinds of notifications, including being emailed when you get a Personal Message. It looks to me like email notifications for PMs happen automatically unless you've disabled them.

 

I don't know why you're not getting notified of topics that you want to track, but I do know the forum software has some glitches. Alto may know the answer to that one, but I'm afraid I don't.

[Barbarannamated]

"Perfection is my nemesis"

HA!!

 

Scratch under chin to Fefe.

[Altostrata]

You'll get e-mail notices of new posts in a topic if you click the big blue "Watch Topic" button up at the top right of the topic.

[fefesmom]

Thanks all. I did find the message from Alto and others all in the place you said they would be. And I'll double check on the instructions to get notifications.

I am going to print out the last several responses and keep them with me and reread them as needed!

I saw an interview with Salman Rushdie who said he got a letter from his father many years ago which made him know his father "got" his writing and it was so important to him. He said he carries that letter with him all the time.

I like that idea.

So, as usual, thanks so much for all of your support, information, suggestions.

Love to all from FM

[Altostrata]

fefes, how are you doing? Is it time to make yours a success story?

[fefesmom]

Hi all.

Looking back over the last year I have to say that I think I have recovered from going cold turkey off effexor xr after at least ten years on it. The numbing that being on ads for so long is mostly lifted and I feel more these days.

 

Before I go on, I want to say that this site was a lifeline for me for many months right after I went cold turkey. I would not recommend cold turkey; I now understand that it can cause all kinds of problems; I was very lucky I didn't have much physical reactions and those were over pretty soon after I stopped.

 

I had a lot more trouble with the emotional roller coaster I was on after stopping the ads. I think these emotions were ones that were blunted by the ads (I went on them after my mother died) and now think I didn't have the chance to feel them at the time. She died 17 years ago so you can imagine all the life that has happened in those years and put on top of that dealing with the grief I never dealt with at the time I have had a lot to deal with.

 

I have been in therapy most of my adult life and taken classes in Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy, CBT, DBT and read many books, articles etc etc. Now I believe that I have always thought/believed that something was wrong with me at a basic level and I set out years ago to fix myself. Impossible mission (see GiaK's post on There is nothing wrong with you). Only recently have I really come to believe that I am as I am and okay that way even though it is not the average/normal way of being.I am divorced many years, did not have children, my primary family is my sister who is single and also did not have children. I have friends and do not feel close to them although I know I am liked for whatever that is worth. Now I believe I am as close to people as I am comfortable being.

 

Needless to say, I have ups and downs. I will go along for a couple of days feeling good and then some event will happen that throws me into a low mood and while I am afraid I will always feel this way, now I know that I can get to feeling better by dealing with my thinking which I now believe is my major problem.

 

The most important change in my thinking and in my life over this past year is that I have begun to think of myself as a person rather than a diagnosis (depression) and to see myself as capable rather than seeing myself as crippled by a diagnosis which I embraced. So I feel more free to cope with things as myself, not as a diagnosis.

 

I hope this all makes sense to those who may read it.

 

Again, I don't think I could have made it to where I am without the help, support, love, and belief in myself I got from the people on this site. Especially Alto!! And the cats online and my own Fefe.

 

So, many thanks and you will be in my thoughts, especially on Thanksgiving. I am finally spending the day with friends I want to be with!

 

So I consider my journey this past year a successful one, bumps and detours notwithstanding. But success is continuous and is often up and down. This is to remind myself to be realistic and kind to myself when i have tough times.

 

Enough for now.

 

Love, FM

 

Love from FM