My Cymbalta story by lundeliz

[lundeliz]

Yes, it is Meimei. Last night I tried the DIY liquid for the first time. It felt like I poured it

 

straight into my blood stream. I felt it immediately and it didn't feel good. All I know to do is

 

suffer the side effects and continue to taper off. The pill is so tiny, and I haven't tried to cut it

 

yet. I might be able to cut it in fourths, but that will be the smallest I can do.I got to sleep last

 

night and slept till noon. Feeling shaky and anxious. Is the theanine helping the anxiety from the

 

taper? It looks like it is going well. I'm getting a little help from the magnesium I think. It seems

 

to be helping the headaches.

[Meimeiquest]

For me,the theanine has taken away the anxiety, but the other symptoms like rapid pulse remain. But the anxiety is the biggest part for me.

[Altostrata]

It sounds to me like you're taking too much, L. I would try a smaller dose.

[lundeliz]

Thanks Alto. I have slowly tapered down the last few weeks. I'm now at half

 

the dose I was on before. I'm so afraid to cut by too much at one time. The

 

wd effect I get is mostly anxiety, which I would love to avoid. I plan to continue

 

to cut the dose. I wish I would get to a point that the side effects would go

 

away, and I could stay on a low dose to control my bp. That would be the ideal

 

outcome. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[compsports]

Hi lundeliz,

 

I am so glad after reading the h-ll you have been through with beta blockers that I never started carvedilol.   I do need to check to make sure my blood pressure continues to trend downward as it was when I last checked.   But if for some reason I still need a BP med, h-ll will freeze over before I take a beta blocker.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world in sorting your drug issues out.  My heart goes out to you.

 

CS

[Riffick]

Hiya Lundeliz.  I'm not doing so brilliantly myself at the moment and find it hard to focus.  You're getting side effects from atenolol withdrawal.  The most distinctive side effect I got while tapering atenolol was sleeplessness.  There were several other unpleasant symptoms but this one stood out as being particulalry easy to see for me.

 

Your current symptoms are probably complicated by the fact you were coming off another beta blocker (I think it was nadolol) and as I recall you hadn't been off that very long before you started to taper atenolol.

 

I got interdose withdrawal but you may not get it.  This was a problem when I got to lower doses as the total daily dose was so low and this needed me to split a pill and then I had to further divide that daily dose into 2 or 3 and this was too hard.  I could have used a titration method but that was fiddly, so I decided to just tough it out because the recovery time after a cut was about 3 days and that's short enough to just keep pushing through.

 

Good luck to you.  Today I realized I've overtapered my benzo and so I'm starting a hold.  I get muddly and foggy when I'm in benzo deficit and it gets hard to focus.  I usually get worse before I get better because of the lag with diazepam.  You keep going there!  Good luck.

[Altostrata]

Riffick, thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

[lundeliz]

Compsports, I'm glad you are controlling your blood pressure without the beta blockers.  Did you

 

have high blood pressure before antidepressants?  I had high blood pressure many years before

 

taking antidepressants, so I hope I will be able to control it in some way.

 

Riffick, I'm sorry you're not feeling well.  It's hard for me to know what is wd effects, and what

 

are just side effects.  Beta blockers were causing insomnia before I even started tapering.  I switched

 

to atenolol 10 days ago. The switch itself was a decrease of 5mg so I haven't dropped any since then.

 

You were lucky that it only took you three days to recover from a cut.  It's hard for me to tell when I'm

 

ready to try another drop.  Side effects and wd effects are all mixed in there.  I really do appreciate you sharing

 

your experience with me.  You are completely off the beta blockers now?  Was the final drop hard?   I'll be

 

so glad to be done.  I hope it's not too horrible. I'm hoping to feel much better off the bb.  Thank you so much for

 

responding to my posts.  It's good to talk to someone who has been there.  I hope you get stabilized on your benzo

 

taper.  Good luck!

[compsports]

Compsports, I'm glad you are controlling your blood pressure without the beta blockers.  Did you

 

have high blood pressure before antidepressants?  I had high blood pressure many years before

 

taking antidepressants, so I hope I will be able to control it in some way.

 

Riffick, I'm sorry you're not feeling well.  It's hard for me to know what is wd effects, and what

 

are just side effects.  Beta blockers were causing insomnia before I even started tapering.  I switched

 

to atenolol 10 days ago. The switch itself was a decrease of 5mg so I haven't dropped any since then.

 

You were lucky that it only took you three days to recover from a cut.  It's hard for me to tell when I'm

 

ready to try another drop.  Side effects and wd effects are all mixed in there.  I really do appreciate you sharing

 

your experience with me.  You are completely off the beta blockers now?  Was the final drop hard?   I'll be

 

so glad to be done.  I hope it's not too horrible. I'm hoping to feel much better off the bb.  Thank you so much for

 

responding to my posts.  It's good to talk to someone who has been there.  I hope you get stabilized on your benzo

 

taper.  Good luck!

My blood pressure had been normal for many years until my apnea got worse and became unresponsive to pap therapy.   And unfortunately, when I checked my BP at CVS, it was quite high.

 

But I have gotten complacent about my diet so hopefully, getting back on track will help.   Will recheck in a few days and if it is still high, then I am going to have to look into meds.

[lundeliz]

Good luck, compsports.  Have you found any natural things that have helped at all?  I've been

 

researching and looking for ideas. I hope some of them will work.  I read about aged garlic

 

extract helping to lower bp. I'm going to give it a try. I have the CoQ10, but haven't tried it

 

yet.  Also bought beet juice.  I don't know yet if any of these will help.  I just know I've got to

 

get off this bb and try to control my bp somehow.  Thankfully, the hydrochlorothiazide I'm on

 

doesn't seem to be causing a problem, so hopefully I will be able to up the dosage on that.

[Riffick]

Riffick, I'm sorry you're not feeling well.  It's hard for me to know what is wd effects, and what

are just side effects.  Beta blockers were causing insomnia before I even started tapering.  I switched

to atenolol 10 days ago. The switch itself was a decrease of 5mg so I haven't dropped any since then.

 

You were lucky that it only took you three days to recover from a cut.  It's hard for me to tell when I'm

ready to try another drop.  Side effects and wd effects are all mixed in there.  I really do appreciate you sharing

your experience with me.  You are completely off the beta blockers now?  Was the final drop hard?   I'll be

so glad to be done.  I hope it's not too horrible. I'm hoping to feel much better off the bb.  Thank you so much for

responding to my posts.  It's good to talk to someone who has been there.  I hope you get stabilized on your benzo

taper.  Good luck!

 

 

Hiya Lundeliz. For the last few days I've been going into decline and extremely reluctantly I decided to hold my benzo taper and putting all my tasks and correspondence on hold. But then today I'm experiencing a really clear window. I didn't expect that. So here I am despite saying goodbye.

 

I'm off beta blockers. I split my atenolol 25 mg tablets into four and tapered in 6.25 mg steps. I felt every cut. Mainly waking for hours around 4am. I also felt truly crap during the day and my benzo WD symptoms seemed to flare up.

 

To do the final drop I split that 6 mg in half and took 3 mg for a couple of days. Jumping off that 3 mg wasn't as hard as handling the cuts during the taper. However it took at least a week after getting to zero to let my body feel better.

 

I approached coming off beta blockers as a sprint rather than the marathon it can be with psychiatric meds.  Of course no one should stop beta blocker too rapidly because of the cardiovascular rebound and something like 1 or 2 weeks seems to be the bare minimum.  In actual practice it took me longer because I couldn't have reduced that fast anyway.  Furthermore, in my case the atenolol wasn't doing much to reduce my pulse rate or blood pressure but other people may find they do get a reduction.

 

To be honest I don't much understand beta blockers and their effects. For many drugs here it can be hard enough separating WD symptoms from adverse side effects but for some reason it seems to be particularly hard in the case of beta blockers. I found the following article went some way to explaining this. It refers to different effects at low and high levels of activity.  (I've attached my own copy of this document in which I highlight some parts which interested me.)

 

http://www.bhsoc.org/pdfs/therapeutics/Beta-adrenoceptor%20Antagonists%20(Beta-Blockers).pdf

Beta-adrenoceptor Antagonists (Beta-Blockers) ##.pdf

[lundeliz]

Hi Riffick, I'm really sorry you had to put your benzo taper on hold. But a window!  That's fantastic.

 

I hope it will be a nice long window.

 

I hope I can do as well as you have with the bb taper.  Sounds like you recovered quickly with

 

each drop.  I actually haven't had a lot of heart racing or bp spikes, but what I do have is a lot

 

of anxiety.  I'm pretty sure it's a side effect of the bb, but I know the wd causes it too. I do have

 

have a hard time distinguishing wd from adverse side effects. I guess I will just continue to taper

 

slowly and hope my body will adjust without too much problem.  Thank you for the info you have

 

attached.  I will be taking a look at those.  Good luck, I hope you will be able to resume your

 

benzo taper soon.

[Bellisimo]

How are you feeling now?

I have had times when ive been soooooo scared aswell in many ways, everything felt so unbelievble, insane , scary. I had huge agitated also

 

are you still off meds or how is it going?

[lundeliz]

Bellisimo, I have been off Cymbalta almost 5 months now. The agitation has gotten better.

 

I think it may have been caused by my blood pressure med, a beta blocker, which I have

 

been tapering off of. I'm not feeling well, but I hope getting off the bp med will help.

 

I'm sorry you have felt some of the same symptoms. Hang in there!

[lundeliz]

Having an episode of akathisia this evening.  Is there any way a beta blocker can cause akathisia?  I've

 

been very, very weak, anxious and nauseous all day.  I have lots of facial flushing.  This time every evening I have

 

the flushing, heart palps, weakness and frequent urination.  I don't know what it all adds up to.  I'll get past

 

it one more time.  Thankfully, the episodes don't last for hours and hours.  I see my doctor tomorrow and

 

we will have a long talk about the beta blocker.  I think it is playing a part here.  I'm just rambling, trying to

 

distract myself.  It's starting to calm down a little.  I survived again.

[Petunia]

Hi Liz,

I'm glad your episode calmed down, I have read here on the site that beta blockers can sometimes increase withdrawal symptoms for some people.  For me, they reduce akathisia, but then I get bad rebound depression, so I don't take them.   How did your doctor appointment go?

 

Petu.

[lundeliz]

Thank you Petu, for responding to my post. I can't quite decide what to do with

 

my beta blocker. I have reduced it by half. I can't decide if it is making things

 

better or worse. I think I may continue to decrease it very very slowly. I have

 

to be on something for my blood pressure. My dr. appt. didn't accomplish anything.

 

He just seemed to be in a hurry to get out of there. Only gave me refills for my bp meds.

[Altostrata]

What is your medication schedule now?

[lundeliz]

Hi Alto, I'm taking 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide in the morning and 22mg of

 

Atenolol at bedtime. That's the only meds I take. I have decided to make an

 

appt. with an internal med dr. who is a cardiologist, to ask for help in getting

 

off the beta blocker, and hopefully finding something I can tolerate for my bp.

[Altostrata]

What is your symptom pattern in relation to when you take your drugs?

[lundeliz]

Symptoms are mostly constant now. I wake up with nausea, anxious feeling, very dry mouth

 

and dry, burning eyes. Always nauseous, always anxious, very "out of it", very weak all

 

the time. In the evenings I get facial flushing and headaches get worse, sometimes

 

heart races (in the evening). Also, this is when the frequency of urination gets worse.

 

Usually later in the night before I take my bb, I get a little hungry, so this is when I eat.

 

I try to go right to sleep when I take my bb. If I don't, I feel my whole body tense up.

 

I've really never been so sick in my life and I'm pretty scared. It doesn't feel like wd

 

anymore.

[Riffick]

Hi Alto, I'm taking 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide in the morning and 22mg of

Atenolol at bedtime. That's the only meds I take. I have decided to make an

appt. with an internal med dr. who is a cardiologist, to ask for help in getting

off the beta blocker, and hopefully finding something I can tolerate for my bp.

 

Hello Lundeliz.  Am sorry to read you're having a hard time reducing the beta blocker.  Beta blockers are sometimes taken for akathisia and withdrawing from them can provoke it temporarily.  Maybe your CNS has adapted to beta blockers over the years you have been taking them.

 

Presumably you're splitting 25mg Atenolol tablets.

 

I found I was getting interdose withdrawals when I was tapering Atenolol.  So I my daily dosage into 3 doses.  While I was coming off the Atenolol at no time was I comfortable although there were days (immediately after a cut when I was much more uncomfortable than usual.  In the end it was unsustainable to stay on them at any dose and so I just made a dash to get off them.  Towards the end I couldn't take 3 divided doses because the quantities were too small to divide without titration or pulverizing the tablets and both those approaches were too fiddly.

 

From where you are at (22mg) it took me about 2 weeks and it was only that long because I went to taking 6.25 mg a day and finally 3mg.  I felt as if it was over at 3mg but when I stopped the 3mg I got a definite rebound after a day or two.

 

Hope my experience helps you decide how to approach this.

[Meimeiquest]

I have been through my share of drugs, but this metoprolol has been the hardest so far. I'm sure it is partly because of AD and benzo issues....that's how I got on it. I am going to try a 120-day daily reduction taper, starting today. I don't know if it will work or not. I hope Riffick's plan will be the better for you!

[lundeliz]

Thank you, Riffick. Yes, hearing your experience helps very much.  I never knew tapering from a bb would

 

be so complicated.  Exactly how did you know you were getting interdose withdrawals?  I am feeling worse

 

in the evenings, but it could be that my blood pressure is just getting high at that time .  My bp goes up,

 

my head throbs, and my heart is beating hard.  This usually lasts for a couple of hours, then settles down.

 

All this is before I take my nightly bb.  This is about as hard to figure out as the ad taper.  I really appreciate

 

all the input from you.

 

Meimei, can you tell me a little more about how you will do your taper?  I guess you will use the diy liquid?

 

I think I will need to find a replacement bp med before I go much further.  My bp is running pretty high. I'm

 

keeping my fingers crossed that I will tolerate something out there.   Good luck with your taper.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Liz,

 

Are you taking your bp and that is how you know it is going up in the evenings?

 

Is it possible to cut the bb and take it in a smaller amt a few times during the day to see if that might help? (Spread out the dose?)

[lundeliz]

Yeah, I do keep a check on my bp.  I was wondering about splitting the dose.  That sounds like it

 

could work.  I'm going to keep that in mind for the next few days. I may give it a try.

[Meimeiquest]

I dose ten times a day (you can roll your eyes here, lol). I was already taking my benzo on that schedule because daytime doses make me so sleepy...I have to have it, but can't let levels get too high. I make a liquid and put all the doses for the day in syringes with caps. Right now the dose is 1.2 ml per syringe, so I'll just knock out 0.1 ml more per day. In ten days, all the syringes will be down to 1.1ml, then start reducing them to 1.0ml. Does that make sense? I don't know if it is a good idea or not. I am taking an ACE inhibitor for my blood pressure now....this is just a psych med now. I really wish I had just increased the benzo when this all happened, but the phrase "It's not rocket science" is not entirely accurate when it comes to tapering.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Liz, you may not feel it until you do it for a couple of days or just not feel so bad if you take it in smaller amounts. Meimei seems to say it works for her. Just do some research and maybe wait till Alto chimes in before you start. I am not a doctor. How many times a day to you check your bp and do you sit quietly at least 10-15 min before you take it and follow the directions for your type of monitor exactly? You have to be very careful of the position of your arm because tension if it is not propped right can give you a higher reading.

 

Hope you can get some relief soon.

[lundeliz]

Wow, that's quite a routine you've got, but it must be working.  How is the anxiety doing it this way? I think

 

I will ask to try an ACE inhibitor first.

 

CW, thank you for the pointers on taking bp.  I just take it randomly when I think of it.  I'll pay more attention

 

to my method.  I'm considering trying splitting my dose to see how it goes.  Thanks.

[Altostrata]

I know very little about bp drugs. meimei, cw, and Riffick seem to be giving good tips. Just keep notes and be very systematic in what you try.

[lundeliz]

ok, thank you, Alto.  I appreciate all the good feedback.

[lundeliz]

I'm feeling again this evening like I did in my original post. Do any of you ever feel like

 

you might just lose total control and go all to pieces? Would this be agitation? It's a

 

truly horrible feeling. I just feel like I won't be able to bear it one more minute. Is this

 

withdrawal? It's a little different from the akathisia type episodes I have had. With this,

 

I don't have the need to constantly pace, but it's just as unbearable I think. I get so weak

 

and my legs just feel so weak and dead and heavy. Does any of this sound familiar to anyone?

 

Nausea is really bad also. Is this just withdrawal? I sure hope it is.

[Narcissus]

Yes, lundeliz, it sounds very familiar.  It will pass, you just have to bear the unbearable, let it wash over you, and you'll soon be in a much better place.  We're with you, hang tight!

 

Do you have a topic in the Introductions section?  If not you should definitely consider starting one.  

[btdt]

I have had this and many other sorts of physical experiences....many. 

What have you done to try to stop it?

A bath a shower moving you legs I recall bouncing my legs when they felt weird... nothing too strenuous just a light bouncing with them out in front of me.  if it is coming with anxiety try an epson salt bath it may help both. 

[btdt]

a relaxation cd or video if you have a fav... distracting yourself may be worth a try.. or just wait it out if you like.

[Riffick]

Thank you, Riffick. Yes, hearing your experience helps very much.  I never knew tapering from a bb would

be so complicated.  Exactly how did you know you were getting interdose withdrawals?  I am feeling worse

in the evenings, but it could be that my blood pressure is just getting high at that time .  My bp goes up,

my head throbs, and my heart is beating hard.  This usually lasts for a couple of hours, then settles down.

All this is before I take my nightly bb.  This is about as hard to figure out as the ad taper.  I really appreciate

all the input from you.

 

Hiya Lundeliz (or is that "Liz"?). I knew I was getting interdose because the symptoms would appear. My symptoms were not the same as yours but the principle is the same. I was very surprised that I was getting IDW despite dosing 3 times a day because the literature says Atenolol can be taken once a day to control blood pressure (although it does mention using divided doses if taken for migraine).

 

The Atenolol withdrawal symptoms came on more quickly than my benzo withdrawal symptoms and, as they appeared suddenly, seemed more severe. However the very GOOD news is that the body recovers from beta blocker withdrawal much, much more quickly than it does from benzo withdrawal.

 

To me this means that you can reduce WD symptoms have along drawn out taper (like Meimeiquest mentions) but the taper doesn't have to be long if you tough out the symptoms. By contrast even if you tough out the symptoms in benzo and antidepressant withdrawal, you are not going to heal more quickly than the slow rate your body requires. A couple of weeks after jumping of Atenolol I found there were no side effects or symptoms at all.

 

As I mentioned, I was forced to rush my Atenolol taper (and believe me it was absolutely no picnic) because at low daily doses it was physically difficult to divide the med into small enough quantities. I am used to using a liquid titration for my benzo WD so I am very familiar with how to do it but it seemed unnecessary.

 

Of course you and I are different and you may have adapted more to your beta blockers because you took them for so long.