gretta: I want to ask if I can get off Prozac since I failed once

[gretta]

Admin note:  link to benzo forum thread - gretta: Tapering off klonopin while on prozac problems

 

 

Quote

Is it worth it to try again

Edited February 3, 2019 by Shep
added admin note

[Gridley]

Hello, gretta, and welcome to SA.

 

To start, please start a topic about yourself in this Introductions forum.  

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/25-please-start-a-topic-about-yourself-in-this-forum/Please start a topic about yourself in this forum 

 

In order to give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Please include the dates of your previous Prozac taper, the rate at which you tapered and the problems you experienced..  Please keep your signature as simple and easy to read as possible.  

 

To answer your question, yes, it is very possible to get off Prozac.  Many, if not most, of us have a failed taper or two or three in our history.  Here are some links that will give you some background on how to successfully taper off Prozac this time.

 

At Surviving Antidepressants, it is recommended that a person taper by no more than 10% of their current dose with at least a four week hold in-between decreases.  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.  Some people may have to taper at a more conservative rate as they are sensitive to even the smallest drops.

  

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Brain Remodelling

 

Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

This is your introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.  I hope you’ll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation.  I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but I am glad that you found us.

 

 

 

 

[gretta]

If I go off fluoxetine, I want to d it very slowly by liquid compound. How do I convince my doctor that it is not self-tapering? I have already put up with his snide remarks over my klonopin taper.  It is horrendous even on the 5% wk. drop that he thought was outrageous.  My symptoms, he believes, are because I have treatment resistant depression/anxiety and are in no way caused by Benzo withdrawal. I know I can make it myself, but seems a shame as I have insurance that will pay for the compound. Is it possible to take a script in and ask for liquid? Thanks, Gretta

[ChessieCat]

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

[gretta]

I am 2/3 off clonazepam now and holding dose because of severe depression and anxiety. I am taking 20 mg fluoxetine which has never done me any good. So what do I do now? I am feeling very defeated and I am nearly 68. I had been told to do the Benzos first. Gretta

[Altostrata]

Hello, gretta. I moved your post here.

 

How did you taper clonazepam? When was the last time you changed the dosage? When did the depression and anxiety start?

 

What times of day do you take clonazepam and Prozac? How's your sleep?

 

Please don't change any of your drugs now until we figure this out.

[savinggrace]

Greta,

if this was my choice, I would stop all tapering and let your brain catch up.  That is a very, very fast taper of klonopin.  Is your doctor making you stop it?  I don't think you should even be considering doing anything at all until you have given your brain a very long nice hold to adjust to the trauma.  Some people can get away with tapers like that.  Many can't.  Don't let anyone or any doctor tell you that you "should" be able to handle this.

 

I am a poly-drugged taperer.  I was only able to taper 4 mg. of valium in 3-4 years and got totally suicidal…I wasn’t sleeping at all.  So I tried tapering another drug and have gotten below 50% of it, and it has helped.

 

Before I came to SA, I was told to taper the benzo first.   Now, I know better.  Don’t get me wrong.  If you read my thread, you would know that I am now 64 and will likely never get off these darn meds, but i will die trying.  Meanwhile I am able to hang onto a few shreds of life.  I don’t do much, but I am not bed-ridden or suicidal (just once in a while)

No pharmacy will let you change the form of the script your doctor gave you.  If he wrote for pills, they won’t do liquid unless he gives them permission.  If you can’t work well with this doctor, either find one who will let you be in control of your taper (not easy) or you can do what I do.  I use a digital scale and cut the pills to the desired weight/dose.  My doctor doesn’t really know what I am doing.  Like your doctor, he tried to give me more valium just this month.  In other words, he learned nothing about the slippery slope I was on 16 years ago when I became tolerant quickly and had to keep upping the dose.  So he thinks I am upping my dose but I am not.  I am just working with the pills he wrote for.

This may all seem unethical, but what is unethical is EVER putting ANYONE on these drugs for any length of time.

 

Many many years ago, I took prozac for 6 weeks and found it very very stimulating.  So maybe you should switch to tapering that, when you are ready to taper again.  Right now I can’t see your signature, but my most important advice is to throw away the calendar, pay attention to your symptoms, and taper accordingly.  Only you know what your body can handle.  No “plan” is going to be perfect.  As your dose goes down, you will have to adjust it.  I would not taper again if I were you until you feel much much better.  If your doctor is making you go off klonopin, I would try to find a doctor who is wiser about benzo dependence and tapering.

 

I know how futile this feels.  I know I will never be drug free.  I am too sick, much of which has been caused by these drugs.  I know, though, that I might be dead now if I had not ignored my doctor and taken matters into my own hands.

 

The moderators will tell you when, what and if to cut.  I just couldn’t help but respond.  I am exactly where you are and am tapering trileptal, maybe even until I am off it, and then either the benzo or remeron which are both “brakes” or sedating.

 

Hope my feedback helps some…

 

Look up Rhiannon's advice on a slow taper...It was what helped me understand what happens to your brain when you go too fast.  Maybe someone can past a link to it.  I am not able to find it now.

Grace

[gretta]

Thank you both for responding. I started tapering my clonazepam at the end of April. 1.5 mg for 17 years. My choice. I had finally discovered on my own why I was getting sicker each year. Tolerance withdrawal.

 

Tapered too fast at the start by dropping 1/3 dose, held 6 weeks and started compounded liquid reducing 10% of remaining dose weekly. Quickly became very unstable. After 6 weeks, I had to stop, made a slight updose, and held about 8 weeks, no relief, reduced taper to 5% remaining dose weekly, had short period of improvement immediately(probably from hold), quickly got worse over a few weeks.

 

Have been holding since Oct. I estimate at that point I was a little over 2/3 off. No relief. Made updose around Thanksgiving hoping to be better for holidays. The updose put me at 6cc or 0.6mg, which is where I remained. So, I am a little less than 2/3 off.

 

I had some times when I could force myself to do enough to give my family a Christmas, but I really think that was just by sheer will. I have not felt like the person I used to be since last May. Holding has been somewhat helpful, as I am not unsteady on my feet and can drive now. I was very unsteady when the symptoms hit me hard at the start of summer.

 

But I am still very depressed. By that I mean, I just can’t motivate myself to do anything. I am not leaving the house unless I have to do so. I am not even interested in reading a book. I have irritating symptoms like sweating, dry mouth, extreme light sensitivity, but they are tolerable. I do have anxiety that is abnormal.

 

I don’t want to walk around my house and see all I need to do. Instead of just doing something, I freeze. I am just sane enough to know I am insane. And I wasnt before I was medicated. I know, now, that I was a normal woman who had mood changes during premenopausal years. I did not know what true depression-anxiety really were.

 

My liquid Benzos is twice daily. I take the fluoxetine in the morning. I also have had 6 generic changes of each of these drugs over the past year. I am attempting to stop further changes. I know fluoxetine is activating. Would it be possible to lower the dose?

 

I believe that the clonazepam is the most destructive to me of these two drugs. I had taken the ad five years before the Benzos. It was added not because of agitation but because I had experienced a life stressor. I looked back over my years since the Benzo and saw a very clear pattern of steady decline in mood and overall health. I wrote a bit much, but wanted you to get an accurate history. My taper timeline may not be exact, but it is close. Thank you, gretta

Edited February 3, 2019 by Altostrata
added line breaks

[Shep]

3 hours ago, gretta said:

My liquid Benzos is twice daily. I take the fluoxetine in the morning. I also have had 6 generic changes of each of these drugs over the past year. I am attempting to stop further changes. I know fluoxetine is activating. Would it be possible to lower the dose?

 

Yes, you likely will feel better coming off the fluoxetine first.  

 

Please start a drug and symptoms journal so we can help you set up a taper.  Please use the format listed in the below quote box.

 

Please post your journal here in your thread daily over the next few days. We'll work with you to help you set up a safe and careful taper plan.

 

Please also include:

 

• The hours you sleep each night
• any supplements you are taking

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 
6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[gretta]

Sadly, that is not possible as I have gone so low on the benzo. Would it be helpful to lower the dose of fluoxetine? As a means of reducing agitation? Depression is my most intolerable side effect and it started with benzo use and is constant now in the taper. Is there harm coming from the ad other than it’s activating property? I do not think I can reinstate the benzo. If I did, it would have to be at a higher dose. Coming off the benzo has been a nightmare. I do not think I could ever have the courage to start it all over, being kindled and on an even higher dose. I was just hoping there was something I could do to help the benzo withdrawal. I have probably two years to get through that. That is if I am lucky. Since it seems to be equally traumatic to go off an ad, at my age I am not sure how much more of my life I want to give up. I had hoped to get off both, but the benzo is hurting me. Thank you for your response, gretta

[savinggrace]

Greta,

 

17 years of klonopin is a long time...about as long as I have been on benzos. 1.5 mg is not a small dose. I crossed over from klonopin to Valium (diazepam) when I realized how hard any tapering at all was going to be. I wouldn’t recommend a cross-over but I will say that 1.5 klonopin is equivalent to 30 mg. Valium and I was on that dose for about a week many years ago (1.5 klonopin) and I was a sleeping zombie. Fortunately I cut the dose back to 1 mg klonopin and stayed there before the cross-over and tapering began. I had to first get off ambien before that. So, though it sounds ridiculous to most everyone, between getting off ambien and then cutting a little more than 4 mg Valium in about 3-4 (years...yes, YEARS) I knew I had to stop. I was soaking through nightgowns and bed sheets every night. I was suicidal. I was bed-ridden. I had to face it. My brain was traumatized by cutting benzo dose in half. I had to give it a chance to re-wire itself and so I have stayed on the benzo. It has ruined my health physically but my cognition and ability to live a little tiny part of life (staying connected to some friends and family) is what I choose. I would rather have that than live a very long life in bed feeling suicidal and wanting to die all the time. Believe me, I still have bad days but I have better days though I have to really “push”’to stay in the game.  I just took my 7 month old granddaughter out for a walk on an unusually beautiful midwestern winter day. I would not want to have missed that. I would have had I chosen the cut and suffer method. I am sure many don’t agree with me. I am going for quality of life NOW. That means go as slow as I have to to stay out of bed all the time and lose everyone in my life. 

 

I took an an eight month break and am now chipping away at my trileptal now. I researched it a lot and found out so many negative things about it that I decided that was one way to reduce my toxic load. 

 

In my my humble opinion, you must give your brain more time. Also I take name brand drugs which is going to cost us a fortune when I am soon on Medicare as most companies won’t cover them. I know people mock those of us who require name brand, but after years and years of feeling “off” every month when I got a new script, I figured it out. If you can’t afford name brand (and name brand is stronger; I don’t care what anyone says) then find a pharmacy that will stock a particular generic for you so your brain doesn’t have to adjust to a change when it is already working so hard. 

 

Greta, if you must taper I have no doubt that you should choose fluoxetine right now. Either drug may be causing side effects; they likely both are. Prozac is really stimulating though. You do not need any more agitation. 

 

I agree that reinstating the benzo would not work. When my doctor stated firmly recently that that is what I need, I had trouble not laughing. I would feel better for 3-4 days. Then I would need a higher dose. 

 

I am a highly sensitive person. My experience is not even average, but I think it is worth considering. 

 

I wish you well whatever you choose. 

 

Grace

[Altostrata]

Hi, gretta. You are not insane. You are having a "normal" withdrawal syndrome experience.

 

Please hold on tapering the benzo. It's not too low, and as you've been holding since the end of November, you've seen gradual (but frustratingly slow) improvement. This is what we expect to see when a person is stabilizing.

 

It sounds like you know how to titrate your drug and understand the different forms.

 

When you get stable, which would be a symptom pattern plateau, we can talk about tapering Prozac. This may be a few months away. Please be patient. When you're in this state, just do what you can and don't blame yourself for the rest.

 

Please keep those daily notes so we can see what's going on.

[gretta]

I think I hear you saying to hold the benzo until stable and then don’t taper it again. Just stay on .6 mg. And slowly taper the ad over a period of years. Then, after recovery, go back to slowly tapering the benzo. Is that correct?  No one actually said if a reduction dosage of the ad would be appropriate now. Perhaps that is not advisable. Thank you, gretta

[Shep]

2 minutes ago, gretta said:

No one actually said if a reduction dosage of the ad would be appropriate now.

 

How do you feel after you take the AD? Do you feel anxious, sleepy, or does it not have an effect? 

 

How do you feel before and after taking the benzo? Does your second Klonopin dose help with sleep? 

 

How many hours do you sleep at night? 

 

Are you taking any supplements?

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

 King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

[gretta]

I do not feel the effect of either drug after taking the dose. Long half life. I get a normal amount of sleep  not a problem no supplements. Gretta 

[Altostrata]

40 minutes ago, gretta said:

I think I hear you saying to hold the benzo until stable and then don’t taper it again. Just stay on .6 mg. And slowly taper the ad over a period of years. Then, after recovery, go back to slowly tapering the benzo. Is that correct?  No one actually said if a reduction dosage of the ad would be appropriate now. Perhaps that is not advisable. Thank you, gretta

 

gretta, we want you to be feeling better before tapering Prozac. You need to stabilize from the benzo reduction first.

 

Don't worry about how long it will take, the important thing is you feel okay while you're doing it.

[Carmie]

How are you dong Greta?💚