ReadingSeagull: son coming off Clozepine and Sertraline

[ReadingSeagull]

Please can you help my son and me as we are struggling to get support . My son has ( very slowly reduced from 200mg to 50mg of Clozepine over 10 months ,  He had been on it for 3 years. He was put on Sertraline to counter act the effect of the Clozepine induced OCD symptoms a year ago. He thinks that is now causing an imbalance. Should he reduce the Setraline now and then go back to reducing the Clozepine? Please help. no one else is ! 

[SkyBlue]

Hi Sarah, 

 

Welcome to SA. I'm so glad you found us and that you are advocating on behalf of your son.

 

To help us out, can you please create a "drug signature" using these instructions?

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/18343-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

It's possible that even though 10 months seems long, that it was too fast. We usually recommend a rate of no more than 10% of current dose per month. 

What are your son's current symptoms? 

Please keep notes on paper about daily symptom patterns. This can help determine patterns, which can be useful. 

 

We can get things sorted out when we know a bit more about his history. 

Again, welcome. 

[ChessieCat]

Hi and welcome to SA,

 

How old is your son?

[ReadingSeagull]

Hi

Charlie is 27 . He is very dyslexic so avoids writing unless pressed. 

[ReadingSeagull]

My son has been doing well. He swims every day , he plays music with friends , paints ( he did a degree in Art) and he would tell you he feels much better for being on less drugs.  He would say he is lucky not to have any serious  underlying problems in his life. His problem originally was  triggered by too much dope and LSD at college.  

He has very few voices ( less than when on 200gms Clozepine )  but knows what they are. His  OCD  thinking has almost gone  and he recognises intrusive thoughts for what they are. He would say  having a clearer head has helped him understand a lot more.   

In Summer 2016 he has a stomach bug and didn't  take his  400mg Clozepine and  100 Quetiapine  for two days. He was in sheltered housing. Everyone went into red alert expecting a huge  problem. He has physical problems but he felt much much happier on no drugs and came back as himself. It was a shock to us all and made us question the whole rationale behind the drugs and diagnosis . At his Carers suggestion he was  kept at 200mg Clozepine and taken off the Quetiapine . 

In April 2017 he started having distressing OCD thinking . We were told it was caused by the Clozepine . He was put on another 50 gms Clozpeine and 100 gms Setraline  .  However, at that point I had a road to Damascus moment  and realise that the whole system was wrong. CBT and constant discussi with me has  helped my son hugely. He may have benefited from  the Clozepine in the short term but his doctors approach is only to medicate . 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, ReadingSeagull.

 

What is Charlie's current daily symptom pattern? What "imbalance" is he feeling? How is he sleeping?

 

Please do not change any drug dosages for a bit while we get acquainted.

 

In your signature, you've put the dosages in grams, please change to milligrams. Is he now taking 100mg sertraline?

 

If he had an adverse drug reaction in college, it could be that he does not need an antipsychotic for life. Is he able to work?

[ReadingSeagull]

Hi 

 

Thanks for your reply. I think the consensus view ( my son's , mine and  some of his key workers who know him well ) is that he his drug abuse / drinking and the intense creative climate he was in at College created a perfect storm for his breakdown, which will not be repicated.  Since then he does not do drugs, he keeps quite a strict health regime ( he has lost the 4 stone he put on )  and has rebuilt many of his friendships . Unfortunately,  the hospital  he went into and indeed all of the Health Trust responsible  for  mental health in our county went into Special Measures, while he was there , because it was so badly managed. We were told to remove him as soon as possible as they could not guarantee his personal safety.  ( he was beaten up twice by inmates) I mention this because their  only recourse to manage the situation in melt down  was to heavily medicate and ask few questions.  Things have not got much better.  The only psychiatrist we see is very young and unwilling to take any risks. She only advocates medication as that is the Trust protocol.  ( A consultant who  challenged this approach was suspended  ) She has been obstructive all the way. In contrast, his  psychologist has a mentor in a big teaching hospital and has taped all their sessions for her to hear over the last 3 years. He reports that she is stunned by his improvement since he has started withdrawing over the last 10 months. This does not go down well in medical reviews as it challenges the Psychiatrists diagnosis ( medication for life)  and her strongly worded advice not to withdraw at all ever. She has not overseen any voluntary responsible withdrawal with out replacing it with alternative drugs . 

 

So that leaves us on our own. The reason I mention an imbalance is that one of your articles  mentions the possibility when withdrawing from anti-psychotics and anti-depressants.  Charlie switched to taking his  100mg Sertaline in the morning a few weeks ago and the change was quite marked. He  said he felt  peculiar, couldn't concentrate , quite spaced out.  Not like any thing he had felt before  when he was unwell.  He then switched back  to taking it at night, so any effect happened at night. and when he takes his Clozepine . He has had more vivid dreams and restless nights. over the last few months He has helped this by taking Passion  Flower .  It does seem yhat sometimes he is a bit hyper. Not remotley out of control but after a stimulating gig or a a lot of exercise he can seems a little wired.  Perfectly happy though.

 

As the Sertraline was added to supposedly  counteract the OCD induced by the Clozepine ,  it is hard to see what purpose it serves. He  is not OCD now.

 

He  is very keen to get of medication . We fully understand that slow is good but the question is this. Is staying on the Sertaline causing more problems now the sedating effect of the Clozepine has reduced?  Should his target be getting that down now the Clozepine is down to 62mg ? 

 

 

[ReadingSeagull]

Hi Altostrata

 

Have you any suggestions please? I have read the article about tapering off multiple drugs . As Clozepine is a ' brake ' and Sertraline  an 'acclerator ' ,  does it make sense to reduce them alternatively ? My sons insomnia and nightmares have been a recent phenomena . he has found that taking Passion Flower has helped and he feels much better for sleeping the night through. I do see that he gets a little hyper sometimes but it is hard to say what is him or withdrawal. As a child he could get a bit  hyper anyway . Could that be a sign of too much Sertraline ? Could he have too much Seratonin  in his system ? 

You are clearly an expert on the chemistry side og things. 

[ReadingSeagull]

 Hi   

 

Is there any one on this site who could give some help ? 

[manymoretodays]

Hi ReadingSeagull,

 

The daily notes, drug and symptom logs will really help Alto, or any of us, to give you further input on your son.  This is what Alto is referring to in her last post.

That link will give you a good idea. 

Time on the left, drug, dosage, and symptoms as they occur throughout the day.  Include all supplements and sleep patterns as well.  Sometimes people will add dietary intakes and even rate symptoms on a 1-10 scale.

Do it on paper, or have your son do some of it, and then share here.

 

It's easier to see any patterns at a glance that way, and saves time,  when reading multiple narratives.

 

On 8/28/2018 at 1:39 PM, Altostrata said:

Welcome, ReadingSeagull.

 

What is Charlie's current daily symptom pattern? What "imbalance" is he feeling? How is he sleeping?

 

Please do not change any drug dosages for a bit while we get acquainted.

 

In your signature, you've put the dosages in grams, please change to milligrams. Is he now taking 100mg sertraline?

 

If he had an adverse drug reaction in college, it could be that he does not need an antipsychotic for life. Is he able to work?

 

Make sure that you've answered all the questions asked as well ^    I do see some of them answered in your last couple of posts this morning and last night.

 

And welcome aboard ReadingSeagull and Charlie,

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited August 31, 2018 by manymoretodays

[Altostrata]

On 8/30/2018 at 4:23 AM, ReadingSeagull said:

Charlie switched to taking his  100mg Sertaline in the morning a few weeks ago and the change was quite marked. He  said he felt  peculiar, couldn't concentrate , quite spaced out.  Not like any thing he had felt before  when he was unwell.  He then switched back  to taking it at night, so any effect happened at night. and when he takes his Clozepine .

 

Making a change of 12 hours in a drug schedule can indeed cause odd symptoms. This is because the change is a surprise to the nervous system. Please do not make any drug changes for a while.

 

Has he been taking sertraline and clozepine together in the evening since June 2017? Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php

 

and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

 

I still need to see the daily notes, drug and symptom logs before suggesting anything.

[Carmie]

Hi ReadingSeagull, 

 

Please give Alto your daily notes of drugs n symptoms. This is the only way she can help you. Just tap on the link she sent to see how to do it. 

 

Wishing you all the best💚