intothewoods Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 (edited) Admin note: intothewoods was previous known under the username Out2C8383. After taking Provigil for 16 years, I've been tapering for two years and am down from 300 mg to about 12-18 mg. I say "about 12-18 mg" because the smallest tablet is 100 mg so I cut it into fourths and then attempt eighths when it starts to crumble. I've been stuck at this dose for over six months, wake every morning in frenzied CNS Provigil withdrawal (it has a short half-life, about 11 hours; I've tried taking small doses later in the day but my it makes me sicker) until I can get enough small pieces in my bloodstream to function a little. I've read that Provigil is not water-soluable but yet, I am able to liquify it easily with water. I just don't know how to create a formula and dosing schedule but it would save my body to have a more precise amount of the drug day by day. Thanks to all help!! Edited March 20, 2019 by Shep added username to title and admin note * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted December 18, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 18, 2018 Hi, Out2C8383. Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants. From your post, it sounds like you may have already done some reading on this site, but just so we're on the same page, here are the links for liquid tapering: How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules On 12/16/2018 at 12:39 PM, Out2C8383 said: I've read that Provigil is not water-soluable but yet, I am able to liquify it easily with water. Please note this for drugs that have limited solubility in water: On 2/27/2013 at 12:30 PM, Rhiannon said: Mostly I would just say, I don't think it really matters if the medication is soluble in whatever vehicle you're using, as long as it can be evenly distributed. What really matters is that it be evenly distributed and that your method be repeatable and consistent. As long as your being consistent, you'll be fine using water as your liquid. For more information on tapering: Why taper by 10% of my dosage? What is withdrawal syndrome? The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization Are you taking any other drugs besides Provigil? Or any supplements? Please add a signature. Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. This is a direct link to your signature: Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature. Once we have more information, we can better guide you in your taper. Please continue to use this thread to document your symptoms and to ask plenty of questions. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Carmie Posted December 19, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 19, 2018 Hi Out2C8383, Welcome to SA, Please put in your drug signature so that we can see it at a glance every time and don’t need to go through your whole thread to find the info. Just press on the link Shep gave you. Thanks a lot. Have a read of the links Shep gave you too, especially on water titrating. You seem quite knowledgeable already. I’ve been water titrating my meds for years. I always use my 25mg tablet in 20ml of water n have used that math. I’m not great at math but somehow managed to get myself down from 300mg of Seroquel to 7.5mg. I had to start water titrating on the lower doses as I could no longer split the tablets with my tablet cutter. Some people use scales instead of water titrating, but I’ve never used them and don’t know much about them. Wishing you all the best with your tapering 💚 Seroquel. 2019:➡️ From 7.25mg to 5.80mg. 2020➡️5.60 to 4.80. 2021➡️4.60 to 4.0. 2022➡️3.95 to 3.55. 2023➡️ From 3.50 to 3.25. 2024➡️Jan15=3.20✔️ Feb19=3.15✔️ March26=3.10✔️May1=3.0✔️ June7=3mg✔️ July 15= 2.95✔️ This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 20, 2018 Administrator Share Posted December 20, 2018 Welcome, out. If you have a 100mg tablet, you might want to mix it in 25mL water (4mg active ingredient in 1mL), then use a 5mL oral syringe to take 4.5mL (18mg active ingredient). You'd taper by drawing up less and less in the syringe. We can help you with the calculations. See Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Simmering Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 If you are up to it, can you say why you are tapering off Provigil? I have recently started taking 50-100mg 2 or 3 times a week. I wish you well on your taper. Simmering 150 Trazodone Crossed over to Valium from Klonopin Now at 20mg Valium from 40 5-16 taking 8 6 6 in pill form, reducing 1 mg every 20 days using liquid Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Carmie Posted December 20, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 20, 2018 Hi Out2C8383, How are doing? I see Alto gave you the math to help you with your taper. There are a number of mods that are great at math so if you need help with that just ask. You’ve done really well getting down from 300mg. Being around 12mg to 18mg doesn’t sound too accurate as you know. The water titrating will make that more accurate. Please keep us updated with your taper. Thank you💚 Seroquel. 2019:➡️ From 7.25mg to 5.80mg. 2020➡️5.60 to 4.80. 2021➡️4.60 to 4.0. 2022➡️3.95 to 3.55. 2023➡️ From 3.50 to 3.25. 2024➡️Jan15=3.20✔️ Feb19=3.15✔️ March26=3.10✔️May1=3.0✔️ June7=3mg✔️ July 15= 2.95✔️ This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/16/2018 at 12:39 PM, Out2C8383 said: After taking Provigil for 16 years, I've been tapering for two years and am down from 300 mg to about 12-18 mg. I say "about 12-18 mg" because the smallest tablet is 100 mg so I cut it into fourths and then attempt eighths when it starts to crumble. I've been stuck at this dose for over six months, wake every morning in frenzied CNS Provigil withdrawal (it has a short half-life, about 11 hours; I've tried taking small doses later in the day but my it makes me sicker) until I can get enough small pieces in my bloodstream to function a little. I've read that Provigil is not water-soluable but yet, I am able to liquify it easily with water. I just don't know how to create a formula and dosing schedule but it would save my body to have a more precise amount of the drug day by day. Thanks to all help!! * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 Hello and Truly Sincere Thanks to all who wrote. I apologize that I'm only finding this tonight, 12/23/18, as my notifications failed. (Fixed Now :). Honestly in years of embattled tapering, I've never felt such a like mind and presence nor this kind of firm hope. Tomorrow I will give proper responses but for now, to answer your question, Simmering: I was prescribed Provigil for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome 16 years ago and fully believed all the studies that it had low dependency issues. It certainly wasn't as hard on my system as Wellbutrin. But, over time and after cycling through the psychiatric system from 2012-2016 with trials of other multiple meds with Provigil - - it took hold of me. Even without all the polypharmacy, I know for me that taking anything psychotropic daily for more than a year means dependency. Never did I imagine it would exact such a hold at such a small dose at the end but I believe it's the inconsistency too. But for almost 2 years, I wake to this creeping awareness that without some little pieces of Provigil within an hour - - I'm like some junkie. I mean it's extreme and I can't stress how dangerous I know this drug to be (I have no addiction predisposition but anything that affects dopamine and makes rats crave it like cocaine... It is sobering). More tomorrow and thanks for a better night's sleep just finding this thread! ❤️ * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 Will add my drug wd signature. Somehow am unable to access it from when I joined last year but it needs updating. Progress has been made and not in small part thanks to this fantastic site 👍😊 * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Gridley Posted December 25, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 25, 2018 Here's the link to add your drug signature. Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature. Gridley Introduction Lexapro 20 mg since 2004. Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017. End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg Oct. 30, 2020 Jump to zero from 0.025mg. Current dose: 0.000mg 3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete. Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium End 2021 year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper. Taper is 95% complete. Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986. Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper. Current dose as of Sept 25: 3.6mg Taper is 95% complete. Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine, milk thistle, choline I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice. It is information based on my own experience as well as that of other members who have survived these drugs. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 Thank you, Gridley! * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 Again, a huge thanks to all for jumping on this so quickly and for your patience while I pull things together. Just posted wd signature. This helps to see a big event since December 15, 2018: Conversion of amitriptyline from pill to liquid with the help of my pharmacist who -- this is the wonderful part -- created a taper schedule using information from this site. Alto and Rhiannon's posts especially impressed him. (me too ) Using Alto's instructions, I stayed at 25 mg from pill to liquid for four days with absolutely no problems. Dropped to 22 1/2 mg Dec 11 - 13 2018, with severe withdrawal symptoms esp insomnia. Again using Alto's suggestion, I raised it to 23 1/2 mg -- closer to five percent drop rather than 10 percent -- on December 14 and am now nearly stablized. My doctor, who also loves this site and is very supportive, wants me to hold the Provigil (although it's not a steady dose, which is why I'm here now) and begin tapering the Elavil because it's causing neurological problems. Re. the topic here, Provigil to liquid -- My doctor is eager for me to learn how to make a water solution (thank you for specific recipe, Alto!) so we can know exactly what I'm taking each day. As Carmie said, being so inaccurate with pill pieces is no good. I will begin water titrating ASAP with approval from you guys and to say, I am thinking to try 15 mg water tritation to start but be ready to increase or decrease until I see what my body wants. What do you think? As you know, the Elavil drop December 15 is a huge player. It made me want to make the Provigil exact. I really thought I could just finally get off of the Provigil but as mentioned, never has anything held onto with such fierceness. (I will respond to Simmering a bit more below). The pharmacist is uncomfortable recommending anything with converting the Provigil. That's ok because you guys aren't and yes, I have various syringes and all other equipment needed. Please do let me know of any deviation from the guidelines as I am reading and re-reading them as fast as possible. I admire the moderators and members who take such time to lend a hand, and to Alto for starting this lifesaver to begin with. * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/20/2018 at 5:50 PM, Simmering said: If you are up to it, can you say why you are tapering off Provigil? I have recently started taking 50-100mg 2 or 3 times a week. I wish you well on your taper. Simmering In the early years of Provigil, I took it like you, PRN or up to 3X week. I never went above 50 mg; 25 mg was usually fine. Then over time and with new doctors, I was prescribed higher doses and ultimately 200 mg tablets with daily dosing. So the big question is: Had I stayed PRN on a low dose for 14 years, would I face this horrific withdrawal? I don't know. With all of us, everything matters, everything has an impact and once so many other drugs were introduced and I destabiilized, the Provigil had me. You know the nature of it, that it's not considered an amphetamine and it's not, yet it rewires the brain over time to believe it cannot function without it. It's subtle, seductive and sadly, very little online substantiates my experience. I hope this has helped at least a little and thank you for asking. 💙 * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 26, 2018 Author Share Posted December 26, 2018 Update: I made a water solution using Alto's numbers. Started with 18.5 mg this morning and slowly increased to 22.5 mg before the shakes stopped and I could walk around. (This takes between 1-2 hrs every morning) Am thrilled to have an accurate measurement and know better what I've been taking. For sure, I took 25 mg and a bit higher many days during October as I was in the path of Hurricane Michael, evacuated very quickly, and was displaced for a month until my home was livable. Lots of moving around, waiting in gas lines, and .....STRESS. Thank you all for the transition to water titrating. My body and brain especially thank you. ☺️ * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 26, 2018 Author Share Posted December 26, 2018 On 12/18/2018 at 10:27 PM, Carmie said: I’ve been water titrating my meds for years. I always use my 25mg tablet in 20ml of water n have used that math. I’m not great at math but somehow managed to get myself down from 300mg of Seroquel to 7.5mg. I had to start water titrating on the lower doses as I could no longer split the tablets with my tablet cutter. Some people use scales instead of water titrating, but I’ve never used them and don’t know much about them. Carmie, Your reduction in Seroquel is inspiring. So much work, perseverance, courage. I'm curious about your conversion formula. Do you use that as a standard for all liquid med conversions? How do you determine the active ingredient per ML? I think I am worse at math than you. 😔 I see I need to make a formula that's not as concentrated or, in other words, something that allows for more leeway than 4.5 mg active ingredient to 1 ml of liquid. Maybe Alto can help too? Brain seems absent but then, the crazy Provigil reduction.😂 Congrats on an amazing taper journey. Like you, I have CFS. I now believe it was triggered by CNS reaction to Prozac in 1999. My family and friends and doctor agree. Hope! * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 26, 2018 Author Share Posted December 26, 2018 An afternoon update: Just when all seemed ok this morning at 22.5 mg Provigil liquid, withdrawal symptoms returned in different and fierce way. I increased twice over the next two hours to total 29 mg and finally, began to be able to function. I see from this site that it's not uncommon to have to increase dosing when you switch from hard-pill cutting to liquid because you lose a percentage in the implements plus the body reacts differently. Of course we don't know what I've actually been taking but no more than four quarter pieces of a 100 mg every four days and usually, it lasts 6-7 days. No doubt the Amitriptyline pill-to-liquid transfer and taper of Dec 15- now, combined with still recovering from hurricane for a while here, and then switching to liquid Provigil -- this is not wise. But I'll stay with the liquids because they are precise. Standardization was much needed in my drug signature. ..... Thanks again for the help and support, also much needed :). Catherine * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 26, 2018 Administrator Share Posted December 26, 2018 Hello, Out2C, what are your symptoms now? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Thanks for checking in, Altostrata. Symptoms have abated as Provigil is working its way out of system (always this time of day). That is always true in early evening but one thing, the liquid seemed easier on my system. Plus there is a huge boost in hope endorphins as I feel you are all helping eliminate the up and down dosing of Provigil particles. (I've been mocked by doctors and others but you know how that is 😅) I started a much more organized, detailed log/spreadsheet today, so I can report as accurately as possible. Also reading the backbone of the site as fast as possible so I can make your assistance easier. Thanks again. * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted December 27, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 27, 2018 An example: 6 a.m. Woke with anxiety 8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro 10 a.m. Stomach is upset 10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast 11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour 12:35 p.m. Ate lunch 4 p.m. Feel a bit better 5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro 6 p.m. Ate dinner 9:20 p.m. Headache 10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel 10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy 10:30 p.m. Fell asleep 2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien") 2:45 a.m. Fell asleep 4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 I see now.... Thanks for precise example, ChessieCat. Will do! 👍😀 * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted December 27, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 27, 2018 Hi Out2C, I've put the drugs you are currently taking into a drugs interaction checker and the results are pasted below. Prozac Provigil Amitriptyline Valium Vistaril PremPro Interactions check from https://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker Serious - Use Alternative fluoxetine + amitriptyline fluoxetine and amitriptyline both increase serotonin levels. Avoid or Use Alternate Drug. hydroxyzine + fluoxetine hydroxyzine increases toxicity of fluoxetine by QTc interval. Avoid or Use Alternate Drug. Increases risk of torsades de pointes. fluoxetine + amitriptyline fluoxetine will increase the level or effect of amitriptyline by affecting hepatic enzyme CYP2C19 metabolism. Avoid or Use Alternate Drug. Monitor Closely fluoxetine + diazepam fluoxetine will increase the level or effect of diazepam by affecting hepatic enzyme CYP2C19 metabolism. Use Caution/Monitor. modafinil + amitriptyline modafinil will increase the level or effect of amitriptyline by affecting hepatic enzyme CYP2C19 metabolism. Use Caution/Monitor. modafinil + conjugated estrogens modafinil will decrease the level or effect of conjugated estrogens by affecting hepatic/intestinal enzyme CYP3A4 metabolism. Use Caution/Monitor. modafinil + diazepam modafinil will decrease the level or effect of diazepam by affecting hepatic/intestinal enzyme CYP3A4 metabolism. Use Caution/Monitor. modafinil + medroxyprogesterone modafinil will decrease the level or effect of medroxyprogesterone by affecting hepatic/intestinal enzyme CYP3A4 metabolism. Use Caution/Monitor. Contraceptirve failure possible. Use alternative if available. amitriptyline + fluoxetine amitriptyline and fluoxetine both increase QTc interval. Modify Therapy/Monitor Closely. hydroxyzine + diazepam hydroxyzine and diazepam both increase sedation. Use Caution/Monitor. hydroxyzine + amitriptyline hydroxyzine and amitriptyline both increase sedation. Use Caution/Monitor. hydroxyzine + modafinil hydroxyzine increases and modafinil decreases sedation. Effect of interaction is not clear, use caution. Use Caution/Monitor. diazepam + amitriptyline diazepam and amitriptyline both increase sedation. Use Caution/Monitor. amitriptyline + modafinil amitriptyline increases and modafinil decreases sedation. Effect of interaction is not clear, use caution. Use Caution/Monitor. Minor modafinil + diazepam modafinil will increase the level or effect of diazepam by affecting hepatic enzyme CYP2C19 metabolism. Minor/Significance Unknown. modafinil + amitriptyline modafinil will decrease the level or effect of amitriptyline by affecting hepatic/intestinal enzyme CYP3A4 metabolism. Minor/Significance Unknown. conjugated estrogens + amitriptyline conjugated estrogens, amitriptyline. Mechanism: unspecified interaction mechanism. Minor/Significance Unknown. Estrogens and progestins may decr tricyclic antidepressant effects, while increasing TCA plasma concentration and adverse effects. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Bleck. I am aware of some of these but nothing like your list. Can eliminate the hydroxyzine to help straight away. Only use for insomnia emergencies but did use a lot while on the run during Hurricane Michael evac but not worth increasing fluoxetine toxicity. I appreciate the individualized assistance very much and have noticed you do this with others. I mean it stands out that you hone in on the meat of things. I feel more progress in the last 48 hrs than four years... * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 The fluoxetine - amitriptyline serious interaction - - I've questioned it all along and was always told because low dose of amit., that was low risk. Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins... They all say OK but soon will do no more harm.. * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted December 27, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 27, 2018 This is the link to the other Drug Interactions Checker we use. It provides the information in a slightly different way. Make sure you go right to the bottom of the page and check out the duplication categories. https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1303-775,739-380,1115-648,1647-1020,168-0,862-441 * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Awesome -- thanks. .... I am reading your website now :). * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Duplication categories -- unbelievable that they just don't care. GRRRRRRRR. * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 I just read something that JanCarol posted on an Introduction Forum on Friday: Each time you escape (not just reduce, but ESCAPE) by lowering dose, you are healing. What do I mean by escape? Well, you could quit taking quetiapine tomorrow - but that wouldn't free you of the drug, it would send you into deeper crisis. But when you taper a small amount off, and get stable after the taper - then that is an escape. Beautiful. Reducing = Escaping. Lately I tell myself I'm on a great "sneak escape" from these insidious meds, their prescribers, and the system, and they can't stop me. They can't stop any of us. We are all on a Great Escape. Thanks, JanCarol! * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted December 27, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 27, 2018 This is good: Video: Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery This is another really good analogy: On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said: When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Phenomenal video and illustration. I feel stunned, in a great way. * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Checking in quickly to say I will submit my first day of notes in the morning. Wanted it to be 24 hrs. Good things since last night: Slept 10 hours, some of best sleep in years. Woke with less violent Provigil withdrawals. Dosed 29 1/2 mg immediately -- better -- but ultimately took 32 1/4 mg to function by 11 a.m. Realized I used a different batch of Provigil generics for the liquid conversion. Could this account for discrepancy in dosing? I'm very sensitive, and becoming more so, to generic meds and can only take Modalert. Even that differs between batches. Cannot take any Provigil from any U.S. pharmacy. Started on Modalert in 2005 and didn't try to deviate until 2014 when tried several generics here and failed. Recently unable to take Fluoxetine in low-quality generics. Nausea, vomiting, dizziness. Not so good things: Crashed physically and mentally about 3 p.m. Profound distress but am working through it. Too much stimuli as I'm trying to take in as much knowledge as I can. Haven't been able to tolerate a TV since 2013. This seems more brought on by my making two liquid conversions in two weeks, and pushing myself. Wishing all a very good night, with joy and gratitude. * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 Changed mind about daily notes and posting in below, in case helpful. Thanks!!!! Thursday, Dec. 27: 9 a.m. Wake shaking in Provigil WD but not as bad as normal. Take 29 mg Provigil and 50 mg Fluoexetine. 10 a.m. In bed and not fully functional. Take additional 2.5 mg Provigil to total 31.5 mg Provigil. 10:30 Get up, drink green smoothie. Feel can’t stay up without little more Provigil. Take 1.25 mg Provigil. Total now 32.75 mg Provigil 11 a.m. - Alert, confident can function. Read, housework. 11:30 -- Moderate mania. Too much Provigil? Noon -- Brisk walk. Feel better. 1 p.m. -- Provigil leveling off. Mania abates. 1:30 - Start draft of this schedule. Profuse sweating, anxiety. (Any serious writing causes this since drug wd; I was a journalist for most of my life; maybe deadline association?) 2 p.m. -- Eat main meal. (diet is mostly whole, plant-based foods) 3 p.m. Afternoon crash. Provigil gone. Depressed, body and brain zaps. 3:30 Light exercise with music. 4 p.m. Call Mom. Have meltdown. Chemistry no good. Extreme emotions from too fast a change? Not Mom’s fault.(have a fabulous Mom) 5 p.m. Re-watch video ChessieCat sent: “Healing from Antidepressants -- Patterns of Recover.” 5:30 Feel little better. Experience daily craving to surrender to dark bedroom for day but resist. Take shower. 6 p.m. Stimuli mercilessly painful. Shakes. Stress of going on phone tieline of Bible study meeting In hour. Rapid heart beat. Mentally, know this is ludicrous. * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Carmie Posted December 27, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 27, 2018 On 12/27/2018 at 12:49 AM, Out2C8383 said: Carmie, Your reduction in Seroquel is inspiring. So much work, perseverance, courage. I'm curious about your conversion formula. Do you use that as a standard for all liquid med conversions? How do you determine the active ingredient per ML? I think I am worse at math than you. 😔 I see I need to make a formula that's not as concentrated or, in other words, something that allows for more leeway than 4.5 mg active ingredient to 1 ml of liquid. Maybe Alto can help too? Brain seems absent but then, the crazy Provigil reduction.😂 Congrats on an amazing taper journey. Like you, I have CFS. I now believe it was triggered by CNS reaction to Prozac in 1999. My family and friends and doctor agree. Hope! Hi Out2C, I’m so sorry you have CFS as well, not much fun, is it? I’ve had it for 24 years. In the last couple of years I’ve learnt a lot about it which I didn’t know in the past. It’s a CNS illness as well. I have read lots of success stories of people taking care of their CNS and recovering. Too bad we’re going through withdrawals now as we have no chance of recovering from this illness until our CNS is no longer so compromised. On the bright side though, there is hope of recovery from CFS. Yes, I’ve always done my calculations with 20ml of water. I only started water titrating the 25mg tablet. When I was on higher doses I just used a pill cutter. My calculations were that a 25mgai tablet in 20ml of water made every ml 1.25mgai. I’ve always used a 5ml syringe. When the doses end up being teeny tiny eventually I will be using a 1ml syringe. Sending hugs🤗 Seroquel. 2019:➡️ From 7.25mg to 5.80mg. 2020➡️5.60 to 4.80. 2021➡️4.60 to 4.0. 2022➡️3.95 to 3.55. 2023➡️ From 3.50 to 3.25. 2024➡️Jan15=3.20✔️ Feb19=3.15✔️ March26=3.10✔️May1=3.0✔️ June7=3mg✔️ July 15= 2.95✔️ This is NOT medical advice.Consult your doctor. Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 Thursday, Dec. 27: 9 a.m. Wake shaking in Provigil WD but not as bad as normal. Take 29 mg Provigil and 50 mg Fluoexetine. 10 a.m. In bed and not fully functional. Take additional 2.5 mg Provigil to total 31.5 mg Provigil. 10:30 Get up, drink green smoothie. Feel can’t stay up without little more Provigil. Take 1.25 mg Provigil. Total now 32.75 mg Provigil 11 a.m. - Alert, confident can function. Read, housework. 11:30 -- Moderate mania. Too much Provigil? Noon -- Brisk walk. Feel better. 1 p.m. -- Provigil leveling off. Mania abates. 1:30 - Start draft of this schedule. Profuse sweating, anxiety. (Any serious writing causes this since drug wd; I was a journalist for most of my life; maybe deadline association?) 2 p.m. -- Eat main meal. (diet is mostly whole, plant-based foods) 3 p.m. Afternoon crash. Provigil gone. Depressed, body and brain zaps. 3:30 Light exercise with music. 4 p.m. Call Mom. Have meltdown. Chemistry no good. Extreme emotions from too fast a change? Not Mom’s fault.(have a fabulous Mom) 5 p.m. Re-watch video ChessieCat sent: “Healing from Antidepressants -- Patterns of Recover.” 5:30 Feel little better. Experience daily craving to surrender to dark bedroom for day but resist. Take shower. 6 p.m. Stimuli mercilessly painful. Shakes. Stress of going on phone tieline of Bible study meeting In hour. Rapid heart beat. Mentally, know this is ludicrous 7 - 9 pm Phone tie-in to Bible meeting. Shaking, confused, anguish. Worse symptoms in over a year. Huge CFS crash in wd. 9:30 - 23 2/2 mg Amitriptyline, 5 mg Valium 11:30 - 8:30 am Sleep, thrashing, sweating. ********'**** Dec. 28, 2018 8:30 am 31 mg Provigil, 50 mg Prozac 10 am Provigil dose equalizes that wd but can't move from bed. 2 pm - in bed, darkest bleakness. Body like vibrating inside and out. This hasn't happened since tapered too rapidly from Provigil in 2017. Happened many times years before when didn't realize too fast taper. 2:30 pm - Realize haven't taken Vistaril since Dec 24. Was trying to stop entirely since they are PRN. Take 25 mg Vistaril. 3:30 pm - - Symptoms begin to improve. Sit up in bed and write this. Realize Alto needs info. to help 😊. Am thinking need to slowly back off Vistaril next couple of weeks. Have it in 12.5 mg dose so can taper. To be cont. 😅 (and big thank you!!) * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted December 28, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 28, 2018 Please post your notes in a block of a full day at one time. In other words, don't post a full day plus part of a day. It will become very confusing and make it harder for the mods to sort out. Please also fix up the formatting for Dec 28. It is very difficult to read. Thanks. Also what do you mean by "mania" and "chemistry no good"? Please state the symptoms and briefly describe how you feel, not a label. The label can easily be misinterpreted. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
intothewoods Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 Sorry, I totally understand and need to rework it over the weekend. Will simplify my notes. Thanks, ChessieCat. Out2C * Fluoxetine: 40 mg 1999-2012; 60 mg 2012-March 2019; 45.2 mg at present. * Provigil: 25-100 mg PRN 2005 to mid-2015; 200-300 mg mid-2015 to early 2016; tapered from 300 mg in early 2016 to 100 mg early 2017; tapered from 100 mg early 2017 to 33 mg June 15, 2019; 8.9 mg at present. * Amitriptyline: 10-15 mg 2002-2013; 25 mg 2014 to December 5, 2018; December 15, 2018 converted to water suspension and tapered to 16.5 mg at present * Diazepam: 5 mg at night 2002-present. Supplements: Iron for anemia Recent tapering timeline: 2019: Fluoxetine 60 mg Provigil 33.5 mg Amitriptyline 25 mg Diazepam 5 mg 2022: 45.2 mg 8.9 mg 16.5 mg 5 mg Back Story: From 2012 thru early 2017, relocated and cycled through over 20 primary and psych docs (supposedly for severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) who prescribed two dozen different psych meds in search of the "perfect therapeutic combo." Took most for only a few days, some for a week. Included Wellbutrin, Cymbalta, Lexapro, Seroquel, Lamictal, Klonopin, Lyrica, Gabapentin, Belsomra, Tramadol, Librium, Halcyon, Remeron and -- the last straw, Trintellix. Began in early 2016 when it was still called Brintellix (Pharma's attempt to combine the words "brilliance" and "intelligence" in a pill name), became unable to eat or sleep, lost 25 lbs and the ability to speak. Slowly tapered myself back to Prozac by 2017 but was unable to stop akathisia, cortisol mornings and kindling which continue, actively, through present. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted December 28, 2018 Administrator Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Out2C8383 said: 9 a.m. Wake shaking in Provigil WD but not as bad as normal. Take 29 mg Provigil and 50 mg Fluoexetine. 10 a.m. In bed and not fully functional. Take additional 2.5 mg Provigil to total 31.5 mg Provigil. What's your usual drug schedule? Provigil has a half-life of only about 15 hours. This won't maintain blood levels overnight, thus withdrawal symptoms in the morning. Why are you taking Provigil with Prozac? Yes, I think you took too much Provigil in the morning on Dec. 27 and had adverse reactions later in the day. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
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