Vegalia: Escitalopram and Lysanxia ( prazepam)

[Vegalia]

Merci Erell

 

 

Courage à toi.

 

 

I'm so sad... 

Why I have  trusted last year the person who followed me in the other forum and convainced me to not stop or reduce DA.

She assured me that m'y problems was just the benzo...and no the DA that I had just for 2 weeks...

she told me that I will have stabilisation with the DA. I Never had complet stabilisation with it ! I ever have had symptôms 

She Sayed to taper benzo and after this DA.

She Never have DA. ... only benzo...

 

Doctors Sayed the same, however I tell thème my symptôms and in the notices of DA it is written that if a person feel nervorsity or agressivity : not upgrade the dose....

 

The situation was clear for me 2,5 month after begining of DA : too late...

 

Sorry to writting this. 

 

However I'm sûre I will have a better life. 

 

Vega.

 

 

 

[Erell]

Coucou 

 

Je comprends tout à fait ta tristesse, je la vis aussi ( j'ai écouté les conseils me disant de rajouter sans cesse des nouveaux compléments et de changer ma dose, et je sais désormais que c'est ce qui a mis mon système nerveux dans cet état. ).

Néanmoins, nous ne pouvons pas continuer à ruminer ainsi : les choses sont faites désormais, et aujourd'hui nous devons nous concentrer sur le présent et l'état actuel de notre système nerveux. 

Trop ruminer ce qu'il s'est passé sur l'autre forum risque de te faire glisser vers la colère. Même si les conseils qu'on t'a donné n'étaient pas les bons, je sais que ces personnes l'ont fait avec les meilleures intentions. 

Ne te blâme pas non plus : tu étais en détresse et tu as cru  ce qu'on te disait, que ce soit les médecins ou d'autres personnes. C'est ce que nous avons tous fait ici!

 

Plein de bisous, je pense à toi  

 

( hello!

I totally understand your sadness, I'm feeling it too  ( I took the advices telling me To add a lot of herbs and suppléments, and To updose. Now I know this is why my CNS is struggling so much).

However, we can't keep on ruminate like this  : things are done now and we have to focus on présent and the actual state of our CNS. 

Ruminate too much what happened on the other forum might lead you To anger. Even if the advices that were given To you were not the good ones,  I know they were provided by people who really think they were doing their best.

Dont blame yourself too : you were looking for help and you believed what you've been told, from doctors or others. That's what we all have done here!

 

Lot of kisses, thinking of you

 

 

 

Ps : vegalia and I were on the same french forum.

[Vegalia]

Thank you Erell, you're Wright.

 

J'avais réussi à chasser cette pensée. Pendant 6 mois et jusqu'à il y a un mois et demi, j'arrivais à faire plus de choses.

Ma vie n'était pas tout à fait " normale", j'avais des douleurs aux bras et jambes récurrentes, j'étais un peu désinhibee et quelques autres petites choses, j'ai du renoncer à beaucoup de choses, mais j'étais dans l'acceptation et pensais pouvoir à nouveau travailler.

 

J'espèrais pouvoir rester à 25 mg de sertraline et sevrer la benzo, mais j'ai pas tenu : trop énervée.

J'ai beaucoup hésité à switcher pour escitalopram. J'ai d'abord pensé tester la poursuite de réduction de sertraline avec les préparations magistrales comme je pouvais, peut-être de mg en mg car la psychiatre ne voulait pas faire de prescription avec des chiffres après la virgule. Puis je me suis laissée tentée par le switch.

Mais là je voulais réduire escitalopram plus lentement malgré l'énervement et on m'a dit que ma prudence était mal placée et conseillé ces réductions rapides. Je ne me suis plus écoutée... à nouveau.

Certains ont aussi pour théorie qu'on sait au bout de 2-3 jours une semaine max, si la dose de confort est à nouveau atteinte si on remonte : parce que c'est ce qui s'est passé pour eux.

Les compléments ont aidé quelques personnes qui ont pu se sevrer plus vite ( effet reel des complements, rien ne le prouve) ou compenser un mal être, alors on pense que c'est bon pour tous.

 

Il y a un manuel assez bien fait sur ce forum et les aidants devraient s'y tenir et non tester en se basant sur quelques expériences finalement peu nombreuses et s'y référer pour chaque cas .

Dans le manuel il y a bien expliqué l'importance de l'ordre des molécules à sevrer et pourquoi, avec des references serieuses. Le cas des personnes que les AD rendent agitées dès le départ y est aussi bien expliqué...

 

Tu n'étais pas présente sur le forum à ce moment là... Mais un jour j'ai rappelé tres gentiment et sans jugement, tres poliment, de bien prendre en compte les éléments du manuel pour l'ordre de sevrage. Et là, la personne qui m'avait prise en charge au départ a été odieuse avec moi, m'a harcelée, provoquée, déstabilisée plusieurs mois, une autre a été méchante aussi mais pour celle-ci ça n'a pas duré, elle me soutient à nouveau. Même l'admin m'envoyait des messages de soutien face à cette personne, mais elle en avait besoin car pas beaucoup de monde pour aider sur le forum.

J'ai osé évoquer l'histoire du métabolisme avec des documents : harcèlement à nouveau, provocations...

 

J'ai aidé à ma manière, mais juste pour l'accueil, en soutien et pour les techniques de titration diverses.

 

Peut-être qu'écrire cela me permettra de chasser ces mauvaises pensées et ma colère.

 

Cependant ce forum est très bien pour les benzo et somnifères, ça je le maintiens. 

 

I'm wayting now, hopefull. I hope that the dépression : 8 today will be slower. I will follow you're exemple Erell.

 

I have missed a symptom : muscle spasm back (dos), legs and arm : light.

 

Thank you.

 

Vega

 

PS : if m'y french post is a problèm, the admin can supressed it. I will understand.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Vega

 

I am sorry this has taken a long time but I think we can start now.

You are currently experiencing W/D ( withdrawal symptoms ).

This is not surprising because of the number of different drugs and fast tapers you have had to endure.

As you said you are obviously very sensiitve to drug dose.

This actually becomes more acute as you get down to lower doses.

Were the tapers based on starting doseage or current dose.

10 hours ago, Erell said:

Today :

I feel a little bit less dépressive : 6  but I'm tired.

Anxiety : 3

nausea : 8

Brain zap : 4

Back muscles very contracted

unplaisant backdone sensations (colonne vertébrale : spine)

Painfull legs and my legs are like cotton

Equilibrium problems : 3

visual disturbances who had desappeared are comming back 6 times today (ca dure environ une seconde a chaque fois comme si je clignais des yeux très vite ou si mes yeux allaient de droite à gauche très tres vite, sans avoir l'impression de bouger les yeux ou les paupières everytime it lasts for one second, like if I was blinking very fast, or like if my eyes were going right and left very fast, but in the mean time I don't feel like my eyes are actually moving, neither my  eyelids). This symptôm appeared with sertraline and had progressively desappeared with the tapering of sertraline.

bruxism : 4

I was cold several times.

 

sensibility to light and noises but in réduction

diarrhea in réduction

Bettér sleep

Pain to pancréas in réduction.

 

Diary is great Vega, if you can do it every day that will be a big help. Can you put the date on each day please, not today.

It seems the slight updose from 1.38 to 1.5 may be working.

Is this how you feel?

"I was cold several times."

Temperature dysregulation, common symptom in A/D W/D.

If your symptoms are improving and bearable then I suggest you hold at 1.5mg Escitalopram until your CNS settles down.

Then we have the Benzo.

You may be aware this site has a Benzo section and one of the mods works and is knowledgeable about both types of meds.

You have obviously dealt with the French Benzo forum but we would prefer to help you to ensure both drugs are being dealt with together.

Tapering two drugs at the same time is not a good idea as it is impossible to know which drug is causing what effect.

Because of your sensitivity when the time comes to taper off it will need to be slow and well regulated.

 

Let me know how you would like to proceed

 

Sass

 

[Vegalia]

Hi Sass,

 

You dont have to be sorry.

 

For sertraline taper based on current dose. 1 taper 20% and after 10, and +/- 7% the two las taper.

For escitalopram as you sée it was...anarchic ?

For benzo : always current dose.

 

I thought too try to stabilised with 1,5 mg escitalopram. What is the hardest for me in m'y symptôms is dépression.

For benzo, I wished to read the section, I will do it soon and will tell you after.

I think is good to reduce 1-2%/21 j current dose for tolérance, but I will sée after reading the benzo section hère.

 

7 october 2019 :

 

Very dépressive this morning : 8, less this afternoon : 6, this evening : 3

Anxiety : 6 morning and afernoon and yet 3.

nausea : 5 I wonder me if homéopathy makes nausea ++ ?

Brain zap : 2 no long time this morning.

Back muscles very contracted : idem and spasmes.

unplaisant spine sensations  : very light

Painfull legs : light

legs are like cotton : harder

Equilibrium problems : 6 I'm walking as I was drunked

visual problems 5 times

Bruxism : 2

Cold several times (I know well this symptôm ^^)

 

Pain to pancréa in réduction.

No diarrhéa ! Yes lol

sensibility to light and noises but in réduction

Sleep : 5 h 

 

Thank you very much Sass

 

A bientôt

 

Lætitia.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Vegalia
Correction

[Vegalia]

Hi,

 

I tried to read the benzo section :

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forum/29-benzo-tapering-and-recovery/

 

Is very hard to me to find clear informations for tapering, because of m'y english level sorry...

I don't know what to think.

 

However, I saw it is question of tolérance. I would say that this tolérance is not psychological but really physical. 

Do you knows this vidéo?

 

 

What should I do : post in the benzo section too?

 

Can you tell me please more about the examen with sérotonine please?

I'm not sûre to have all understand.

 

Thank you So much.

 

Vega.

 

 

 

 

[Vegalia]

Something important about m'y symptôms.

When I wake up, 6 h in genreral I dont have or very slight dépression, anxiety I'm not particulary tired, m'y symptôms are physical.

But, betwen 9h30 : after taking drugs, this symptôms can appear and theré are sligthly the evening.

For exemple yet I'm very, very tired. I feel asleep.

 

Vega.

[Vegalia]

I sleeped 10h15 to 11h30 and I am less tired, but now I'm very dépressive : 8, desepered. I want to cry but I can't.

I feel me inable to Cook, washing me or command food on the supermarket with web... However there is nothing complicated to do ! I want to do it, but I can't... 

 

My brother and his wife who is prégnant, posted me a message in face book for a dîner saturday. I'm sad because I feel inabell to go to this dîner. I dont want that they see me So bad.

I'm very happy for them, but So sad, because is not possible to me and worse for my companion to have a children, because of m'y drugs...

My endometriosis surgery was made to hope having children.

I know, that m'y care is more important than to have a children, I know that I have already in the life is more important than what I could maybe (and not sure) to have. I know it isn't my fault, but I feel guilty sometimes. 

Thank you doctors : gyneco, generalist and psychiatr for your incompétence... 

 

Vega

[Erell]

Oh ma douce, je suis vraiment désolée de te savoir dans cet état. 

as-tu remarqué si tu te sens plus mal à chaque fois que tu fais des siestes?

C'est mon cas, je fais ce que j'appelle des siestes 'toxiques' : quand j'en émerge je suis toujours très mal. Je ne sais pas quelle en est l'explication. 

 

Je t'envoie plein de bisous, je pense fort à toi!!!

 

( Oh sweetie,  Im so sorry that you Feel bad. 

Have you noticed if your feelings are worse everytime you take a nap?

It's my case : everytime I took what I call 'toxic naps' I woke up feeling very bad. I don't know what can explain that.

 

I send you lot of kisses and think strongly of you !!!)

[Vegalia]

Hi Erell 

 

The naps are not ever toxics.  Frequently it makes  time for me to beeing réal awake after (souvent je mets longtemps à émerger)

 

But it seems not to be in relation with anxiety or dépression.

 

I make nap only if I can't fight with sleep...

 

I my history with drugs and taper in general : 

physical symptôms like pain (douleurs) Are hardest the morning when I wake up and reduced.

anxiety, nervosity, tireness, depression, are slight or not present when I wake up , hardest after 9h30-10h, and slighty the evening... I will be not So sûre for dépression because it's a récent symptôm which appeared brutaly and very hard.

 

Thank's a lot for your message.

 

Courage à toi tout plein.

 

Bisous

 

Vega.

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Vega

 

I think you have been putting a brave face on this and it is now time to act.

 

21 hours ago, Vegalia said:

I wonder me if homéopathy makes nausea ++ ?

We do not recommend any complementary medicine during withdrawal, at best it can distort results and at worst delay recovery.

The only supplements we recommend are

king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

10 hours ago, Vegalia said:

What should I do : post in the benzo section too?

 

This will not be necessary at the moment.

I am going to create a report to our senior mods.

Please ensure you continue to post your diary as this will provide essential information going forward.

 

Sassenach

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vegalia]

Hi Sass,

 

Ok.

 

I know for the compléments. The homéopathy is for m'y digestives problems. The usual drugs are not indicated with benzo. I will let a part of homéopathy. 

 

I think I will stop progressively lithium orotates ans L-tryptophane ?

I have oméga-3 but I think is better  to start this later?

I think I'_m maybe intolérant to magnésium.

 

Thank you.:) 

 

 

Vega.

 

 

 

[Sassenach]

Vega

 

Please do not stop anything until the the boss mods respond to the report.

If you change anything you may confuse the current situation.

Even more important in your case as you react quickly to changes.

 

Sassenach

[Vegalia]

Ok Sass.

 

Thank you.

 

Vega.

 

 

 

[Sassenach]

Thanks Vega

 

We will need another few days diaries to study your symptoms and reactions to the drugs.

Please do it in the following format and ensure you include the times you take both meds and supplements.

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety 5
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache 3
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy 6
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

Stay strong, you can do this.

 

Sassenach

[Vegalia]

Yes I know Sass,

 

But is very difficult for me to do this. 

Writting all the day my fellings, m'y drugs, hour by hour.... It's terrible for me.

I will try. 

 

Vega.

 

 

 

[Vegalia]

08 october :

5.45 am : woke with leg pains : 3 (i sleep about 6 h and I had a good night without interruption)

7 am : I'm cold

8 am : homéopathy, probiotics, lihium citrate.

8.30 am :  breakfast and  escitalopram1,5 mg

9 am : Lysanxia 9,5 gouttes (=prazepam 4,75 mg)

9. 45 am : I feel asleep.

10 am : go to bed

10.15-11.30 am : sleep

12. : dépression : 8

1.45 PM : eat bread

3 PM : Lysanxia 9,5 

4 PM : dépression : 6, anxiety 8

6 PM : depression : 6 anxiety : 6

8 PM : diner, dépression 4, anxiety : 3. Head pain

9 PM Lysanxia 9,5 visual problèms several times with the phone écran.

 

*****

nausea :  3

No brain zap 

Back muscles contracted and spasme in réduction

unplaisant spine sensations  : in réduction

Painfull legs : in réduction

legs are like cotton : stable

Equilibrium problems :  4

visual problems 10 times or + 

Bruxism : 2

Cold several times 

No Pain to pancréa 

No diarrhéa but constipated...

sensibility to light and noises  : in réduction

small difficulties for speech ( petites difficultés d'élocution comme si ma langue était anesthésiée. J'ai déjà eu ce symptôme)

 

It was easy to bear physical symptôms today, but dépression and anxiety it was very hard

 

I try to do m'y best.(and m'y phone mâke me written bullsh...^^)

 

Good night Sass.

 

Vega.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Vegalia, you are taking prazepam 4,75 mg 3 times a day, at 9 a.m., 3 p.m., and 9 p.m.? (Please write it as prazepam 4,75 mg rather than Lysanxia 9,5 gouttes, which is more difficult for us to understand.) Attention @Shep

[Vegalia]

Good morning Altostrata,

 

Yes, I do, and I will write in mg prazepam.

 

In my signature is Lysanxia...

1 goutte Lysanxia=0,5 mg prazepam.

(Veratran= Clotiazepam)

 

Thank you very much for all and sorry for my english.

 

Vega.

[Shep]

On 10/8/2019 at 2:13 AM, Vegalia said:

I tried to read the benzo section :

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forum/29-benzo-tapering-and-recovery/

 

Is very hard to me to find clear informations for tapering, because of m'y english level sorry...

I don't know what to think.

 

However, I saw it is question of tolérance. I would say that this tolérance is not psychological but really physical. 

 

Do you knows this vidéo?

 

Yes, you are correct -  benzos do cause physical dependence. 

 

Does the  prazepam / Lysanxia help you sleep? 

[Vegalia]

Hello Shep,

 

Nice to met you.

 

I don't know really if prazepam help me sleep.

 

My sleep became wrong brutaly juste before the start of benzo in july 2018. (1h30-4h for a night).

I Never had have really difficulties to fall asleep (before and after the start of benzo) but I woke very fast.

Progressively, with technics for a good sleep my sleep became better, and correct (6-7h for a night) novembre 2018.

 Since two month, my sleep is between 5-6h for a night, always with no real difficulties to feel asleep. But I have impression that the quality of my sleep is not So good than 2 months ago. 

And I often  mâke a lot of strange dreams since, but not nightmarre.

 

I wished to answer Yes or no, but it isn't So clear for me.

 

For the tolerance of benzo : what do you think of taper 1-2%/21 days?

 

I'm very gratefull to people who are helping me in this forum.

 

Thank you @Shep

 

Vega.

[Sassenach]

Hi Vega

 

I have amended your signature as Alto asked.

Please check I have got it correct.

Your diary is good but if you can enter Lysanxia as below it would help.

21 hours ago, Vegalia said:

(=prazepam 4,75 mg)

Shep and Alto are the best but very busy, : Lysanxia is not a name familiar to us so they will need to check every visit which takes time.

How are you feelin today?

 

Sass

[Vegalia]

Hi Sass,

 

Thank you.

 

Yes for  the signature. 4,75 mg prazepam 3x.

Lysanxia is Prazepam liquid. 

I can change all m'y signature with mg is possible.

 

Today dépression very hard and anxiety...

 

Tomorrow  is  another day

 

Good evening. 

 

Vega

 

 

[Sassenach]

1 minute ago, Vegalia said:

I can change all m'y signature with mg is possible

That is not necessary for now Vega.

 

Have a good night and dormez bien.

 

Sass

[Vegalia]

Thank you, you to Sass.

 

Vega

[Vegalia]

ISleep for 11h45 pm to 5.45 am : woke with nausea : 2 and brain zap : 3, pain to head, legs, arms, back : 3

7 am : I'm cold 

8 am : homéopathy, probiotics, lihium citrate.

8.30 am :  breakfast and  escitalopram1,5 mg

9 am : prazepam 4,75 mg, dépression : 4, anxiety 2

10 am : very tired nap of 3/4 h

11 am : dépression 8, sadness

1.30 pm : homeopqathy, eat vegetables, fish (2 sardines), appel (compote)

3 PM : prazepam 4,75 mg, hard head pain 

3.30 PM : take 1 g paracétamol

4 PM : dépression : 6, anxiety 6, I learn very sad news

8 PM : diner, dépression  5 anxiety : 3. Head pain, hard back pain

9 PM prazepam 4,75 mg

11 PM : homeopathy and L-tryptophane 220 mg

 

*****

nausea :  2

No brain zap : 3

Back muscles contracted, but very few spasmes

unplaisant spine sensations  : up

Painfull legs : in réduction

legs are like cotton : stable

Equilibrium problems :  4

visual problems 10 times or + 

Bruxism : 4

Cold several times 

sensibility to light and noises  : stable

small difficulties for speech ( petites difficultés d'élocution comme si ma langue était anesthésiée. J'ai déjà eu ce symptôme)

 

More phyical symptôms than yesterday. The dépression is very, very hard. 

I have read a lot of informations in the forum. I'm affraid to be So bad very long time, several months or +. 

I have read m'y history of the other forum and feel angry and sad...because I let me influenced. I wanted to reduce escitalopram slightly even if I was very nervous... I try to not think about that...

 

But I want to stay hopefull.

 

Vega.

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Vegalia said:

For the tolerance of benzo : what do you think of taper 1-2%/21 days?

 

We recommend tapering the benzo after you taper the antidepressant. Please see:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

Even if the benzo isn't helping you sleep, removing it before removing the antidepressant can make insomnia much worse. For this reason, we recommend tapering the benzo last. 

 

On 10/7/2019 at 3:03 PM, Vegalia said:

What is the hardest for me in m'y symptôms is dépression.

 

 

What do you mean by "depression"? Do you mean physical fatigue or do you mean sad thoughts? 

[Vegalia]

Hi,

 

I have forget the date on my previous post : 9 october. Sorry.

 

I went to bed a 11.10 pm with a lot of back pain and umpleasant spine and head sensacars and always head pain. My back was "burning", bruxism. 

However, i falled asleep relatively quickly. 

 

I have got a lot a sévère symptôms... It's very hard.

 

I try to tell m'y history with escitalopram. Maybe it van help. Sorry for m'y english :

 

15 july : escitalopram 5 mg : I feel surdosed with sertraline 25 mg, that I could not do taper less that 1 mg for technical reasons. It was told me that I must find balance with benzo and DA.

1st week fell "good". I hope to drive my taper as I have down with sertraline : taper 28 days. But on week after very nervous, agitation came back. It bas been adviced to me to take 4 mg. 

 

20 july : escitalopram 4 mg : very nervous, agitation : I told if I does reduce for 0,50 mg or less? Advice : no ! No misplaced caution : you are surdosed like L...( membre of forum) read this post. Go to 3,25. 

 

22 july : escitalopram 3,25 mg :  nervous, agitation : I told what should I do ? Go to 2,5 ? Answer : Yes, try it. Agitation, nervosity must guide you for tour taper. And I'm doing like think that because I really think that I'm surdosed And 'Il affraid to become really agressive And not to contrôle me.

 

23 july : escitalopram 2,5 mg : always nervous but less : I told if I must reduce : answer : Yes. 

 

25 july : escitalopram 2,25 mg : My mood is always not stable but nervosity down a few days : good. But it Côme back few days mater : I tell advices And reduce... But i realize that I have taper fast And hard...And that is probably not carrefull even if I was nervous... I think I must be more carrefull And not reduce So fast And hard than two other membres of forum who have hard agressivity with DA, with I am compared to by the forum admin. I think that taper to 0,25 mg when I  am nervous us more carefull....

 

8 August : escitalopram 2 mg : nervosity down ever if my mood is not stable ans up..I reduce with advices.

16 August : escitalopram 1,75 mg : idem

 

20 August : escitalopram 1,50 mg : I feel me very tiréd, have digestiv problèms, diarrhéa, but do not link it to the taper cause they are usual problèms for years. I have new symptôms but not hard. I dont care a lot about it. M'y nervosity desappered , I have very light pain, and I am happy of this. 9-11september feel "good". I have congratulations for m'y taper. I think that I am stabilzed, I am wrong...but I didn't know that.

 

12 september : escitalopram 1,25 mg : I'm always very tiréd, with digestive problèms. On week later I realize that I am in dépression ! I think I probably must upgrade the dose . I telle  advices : 1,38 mg + lithium orotates.

24 september : escitalopram 1,38 mg m'y dépression become harder (I don't take lithium orotates). I answer advices : 1,50 mg.

28 september : escitalopram 1,50 : I explain that m'y situation is terrible with all symptôms ans news very hard symptôms : I  tell advices : " I dont have solution, sorry. Orotates may help you."

 

 

Vega.

 

[Vegalia]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

 Bonjour Shep.

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

Nous vous recommandons de réduire progressivement le benzo après avoir réduit l’antidépresseur. S'il te plait regarde:

 

Prendre plusieurs drogues psychiques? Quel médicament réduire en premier?

 

Même si le benzo ne vous aide pas à dormir, le retirer avant l’antidépresseur peut aggraver l’insomnie. Pour cette raison, nous recommandons de réduire

 

 

 

Qu'entendez-vous par "dépression"? Parlez-vous de fatigue physique ou de pensées tristes? 

 

J'ai déjà lu votre lien et je reconnais que je dois réduire le benzo après l 'antidépresseur. Mais ma question portait sur la tolérance du benzo qui n’est pas la même chose que la dépendance que je possède depuis longtemps. Ai-je tort?

1ou 2% de cône benzo juste pour ne pas être dans la tolérance est une erreur? Je ne sais plus quoi en penser ...

 

Dépression = Je veux faire quelque chose mais je ne peux pas, je ne sais pas pourquoi ...

To Cook, to eat, to wash me for exemple is a fight... I'm figthing to not beeing in bed all the time.

I wished to do pleasants things or activities, but I do not. It appeared very hard,  brutaly and fast.

I do nothing of the day...

 

And now for 2-3 days I have a lot of sad thoughts.

 

Thank you @Shep

 

Vega

[Vegalia]

For me, this dépression is not to live, but just trying to survive. 

Is too hard...

Wat is more important for me than taper now is just to live  a little, like 3 months ago even if I had symptôms : I beared thèm, even it was difficult .

 

I ask me if 1,5 mg escitalopram is enough, but I'm affraid to upgrade too fast or too hard now. I wished to be less dépressive, that I was not until recently, I wish it because it's too hard to bear. But I dont want to be embrased and become agressive...

 

With escitalopram, I never found stabilisation as I could have with sertraline,  even if it wasn't perfect and sometimes difficult, I could live a little, it was great, I was hopefull Every  day, had courage, were optimist mots of the time,  even it was difficult. I thought to be abble to return to m'y job and work partiel until one month ago... 

I dont work since more of one year...Is really a problèm. (money)

 

Vega 

[Altostrata]

Are you feeling "depression" as demotivation or sluggishness?

[Vegalia]

Hello Altostrata, 

 

Are you feeling "depression" as demotivation or sluggishness ?

40 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Are you feeling "depression" as demotivation or sluggishness?

 

Sorry, sluggishness is a synomym of léthargy?

If it is : since about 1,5  month i felled So, but no démotivation.I dont thougt it was dépression but hard tireness.

Since about 2-3 weeks both. And now moments of dispair.

 

I would Cook, eat, have activities, but it is as I was blocked by something stonger than me, which I can't fight or ignore.

Is not rationnal for me to not be abble to do things who are very simple and good for me, as I was paralized by something stronger than my will who as always been very strong...

 

I hope that you untersand my answer.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Vega

 

[Shep]

19 minutes ago, Vegalia said:

Sorry, sluggishness is a synomym of léthargy?

If it is : since about 1,5  month i felled So, but no démotivation.I dont thougt it was dépression but hard tireness.

Since about 2-3 weeks both. And now moments of dispair.

 

I would Cook, eat, have activities, but it is as I was looked by something stonger than me, which I can't fight or ignore.

Is not rationnal for me to not be inabble to do things who are very simple and good for me, as I was paralized by something stronger than my will who as always been very strong...

 

 

This could be withdrawal from the antidepressant or it could be a side effect of the benzo, since benzos are nervous system depressants. 

 

Prazepam has a half-life of 36 - 200 hours for the active metabolite. Have you always taken it 3 times a day? If not, when did you split it out to 3 times a day? 

 

3 hours ago, Vegalia said:

J'ai déjà lu votre lien et je reconnais que je dois réduire le benzo après l 'antidépresseur. Mais ma question portait sur la tolérance du benzo qui n’est pas la même chose que la dépendance que je possède depuis longtemps. Ai-je tort?

1ou 2% de cône benzo juste pour ne pas être dans la tolérance est une erreur? Je ne sais plus quoi en penser ...

 

 

 

I placed this in a translator:

 

 

I have already read your link and I recognize that I must reduce the benzo after the antidepressant. But my question was about the tolerance of benzo, which is not the same thing as the addiction I've had for a long time. Am I wrong?

 

The translator translated this as "addiction" but it looks like you used the words  la dépendance, which might mean dependent? If so, yes, you likely are dependent now - benzo dependency starts in 2 - 4 weeks of taking the benzo. There's also the concept of "tolerance withdrawal" on some of the benzo forums. Is this what you're referring to? 

 

A lot of people confuse "tolerance withdrawal" with the symptoms from tapering too fast and / or with symptoms from other drugs that are being tapered, such as an antidepressant. Please see:

 

"Benzo Tolerance withdrawal" during tapering -- does it exist?

Edited October 10, 2019 by Shep
fixed typo

[Vegalia]

 

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

This could be withdrawal from the antidepressant or it could be a side effect of the benzo, since benzos are nervous system depressants.

 

 Yes, I know...

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

Prazepam has a half-life of 36 - 200 hours for the active metabolite. Have you always taken it 3 times a day? If not, when did you split it out to 3 times a day?

 

Yes, I know the half- lifes of the 3 benzo I have taken. (Veratran =clotiazepam= 4h...)

I always taken prazepam 3 times a day. I think it was a bad adwice, I was before with veratran very short half-life 2 times a day...

 

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

I placed this in a translator:

 

 

I have already read your link and I recognize that I must reduce the benzo after the antidepressant. But my question was about the tolerance of benzo, which is not the same thing as the addiction I've had for a long time. Am I wrong?

 

The translator translated this as "addiction" but it looks like you used the words  la dépendance, which might mean dependent? If so, yes, you likely are dependent now - benzo dependency starts in 2 - 4 weeks of taking the benzo. There's also the concept of "tolerance withdrawal" on some of the benzo forums. Is this what you're referring to? 

 

A lot of people confuse "tolerance withdrawal" with the symptoms from tapering too fast and / or with symptoms from other drugs that are being tapered, such as an antidepressant. Please see:

 

"Benzo Tolerance withdrawal" during tapering -- does it exist?

 

 

Ok...

I am dépendant of the benzo = addict i know that. I tried to reduce the benzo 3 times in 1,5 months...

1st time after 10 days : echec !!! ....

 

I have read your link, I'm not sûre to have all understand, but I think that I talked about tolérance withdrawal. = is bad to have more of 30 days the same dose of benzo... So Wright or wrong theory? It was m'y question. Hère it seems that you think is wrong? I don't know what to think anymore...

 

I dont understand today how did I followed so dangerous advices with AD particulary... I have done all that I cane to inform me with benzo ans AD for months ans wanted to be carefull. But with hypomania with the AD, is not always easy to have clear idéas... 

 

What can I do? Have I other choice than to wait anf sée? It's so hard this dépression.

 

Thank you @Shep

 

Vega.

[Vegalia]

10 october :

 

 

•  

I sleep for 11h45 pm to 5.30 am : woke with back pain : 5, head pain : 3, brain zap : 2 but no long time

8 am : homéopathy, probiotics, lihium citrate. 

8.30 am :  breakfast and  escitalopram1,5 mg

9 am : prazepam 4,75 mg, dépression : 4

10 am : pains in diminution, dépression 8,sadness, ruminations, dispair.

1.30 pm : homeopathy, eat sandwich

3.15 PM : prazepam 4,75 mg

4 PM : dépression : 6 begin to cry ( is good) but contain me cause m'y companion will be back at home. anxiety : 4

5 PM : full of nervosity +/- 30 mn. Back pain, a lot of bruxism.

8 PM : diner, dépression  4 anxiety : 4 Head pain

9 PM prazepam 4,75 mg no more head pain but scalp scratched and Burns (already have sometimes this symptôm but not for long time) axiety 2, dépression 3

11 PM : homeopathy and L-tryptophane 220 mg

 

*****

nausea :  2 and not all the day

Back muscles contracted, no spasmes

unplaisant spine sensations  : slight

Painfull legs : vert slight

legs are like cotton : stable

Equilibrium problems :  4

visual problems : in réduction

Bruxism : 6. 

Cold  : no

sensibility to light and noises  : up

small difficulties for speech ( petites difficultés d'élocution comme si ma langue était anesthésiée. J'ai déjà eu ce symptôme) slightly

 

Less physical symptôms than yesterday. The dépression is very, very hard. Lot of ruminations

 

Vega

 

[Shep]

20 hours ago, Vegalia said:

I always taken prazepam 3 times a day. I think it was a bad adwice, I was before with veratran very short half-life 2 times a day...

 

Do you think you would feel better taking it once or twice a day instead of 3 times a day?

 

If so, you could gradually move the dose to the night time. We recommend moving gradually, one hour per day over several days. Moving only one hour per day is gentle on the nervous system.

 

20 hours ago, Vegalia said:

I have read your link, I'm not sûre to have all understand, but I think that I talked about tolérance withdrawal. = is bad to have more of 30 days the same dose of benzo... So Wright or wrong theory? It was m'y question. Hère it seems that you think is wrong? I don't know what to think anymore...

 

 

It's okay to stay on the same dose of benzo for more than 30 days.  Keep in mind that withdrawal symptoms may be more severe than tolerance symptoms. So tapering too soon can make you worse than holding at the same dose.