Markolo1980: Paxil witdrawal Please advise ( Markolo1980)

[Markolo1980]

Hi, I've been struggling with anxiety and panic attacks since 2004. I would experience them each time when my relationship would become more and more serious. Eventually I went to see my doctor who prescribed me Lexapro ( here in Europe is Cipralex ). I was put on 10mg. I managed my problems with being on and off till end of 2015 when I decided to quit cause I started to be more and more dizzy. But that time, I see that now,  was the worst possible time for me to quit , cause I was starting new business and was under extreme pressure and stress level was at highest possible. And I experienced massive and really horrific nervous breakdown and complete burnout on June 1st 2016. I will never forget that date. I went back on Lexapro but it was so tough that I had to take Xanax along so I could get back on Lexapro. Starting side effects were so intense ; panic attacks and anxiety that I couldn't manage it otherwise. I've been on benzos almost three months. Cause Lexapro 20mg didn't have any effect my doctor put me on Paxil 40mg. In time it got better , but to be honest It never was as ''normal'' as before. I just become a ''zombie'' with no feelings for anything going on around me; and still from time to time there would be episodes of anxiety.

So this year I said to myself lets get down from pills and get my life back. And I planned to do it slowly and wisely. First tapper was in February from Paxil 40mg to 35mg. All went well. Than march 35mg to 30mg, also all was fine.  Then my new psychiatrist said I can go to 20mg, that there will be no problem. So I did it in the end of June this year. First month all was fine, but after that hell started. I started to experience all possible symptoms, extreme intolerence to people, nervousness, extreme dizziness, chest pain which almost crippled me ( I had the same when starting paxil ). Then it got worse , I experienced what I now know are brain zaps, feeling of depersonalization, anxiety. Its strange that all emerged only after almost two months of this too big reduction  ; at this point I have to mention that for me ,effects of pills needed almost two months to feel any kind of improvement. This week I started to have this strange feeling to fall asleep, is this also WD?

My question is, when does this subside? I'm planning to wait now for another reduction till march 2020? Is this smart? I could help myself in tough moments with benzos, but i don't wanna mess my head even more. I was also very much shocked when my psychiatrist  said she does not know of any major problems when lowering Paxil. That some patients stop cold turkey even from 40mg Paxil to zero?!? 

Will be happy to get any answers, please….

 

Im taking B12 and magnesium. Should I add something else?

 

 

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Markolo1980.  I'm sorry you're suffering from these difficult symptoms.

 

We recommend tapering no faster that 10% of your current dose every four weeks.  

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

This link is specifically about tapering Paxil.

 

Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

 

Your taper was faster than this, especially the drop to 20mg, and as a result you are suffering from withdrawal.  You should know that psychiatrists know nothing about withdrawal (in fact, they don't believe it exists) or safe tapering.  The symptoms you mention are typical withdrawal symptoms, including sleep problems.  Withdrawal symptoms are often delayed.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

   On 8/30/2011 at 2:28 PM,  Rhiannon said: 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 Unfortunately there is no way to predict how long is will take your system to return to normal.  

 

It is definitely a good idea to hold where you are and attempt no further tapering at this time.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are the magnesium you're taking and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, the place where you should ask questions and where you can connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Markolo.

 

Has your symptom pattern gotten better or worse since your last reduction in June?

 

7 hours ago, Markolo1980 said:

This week I started to have this strange feeling to fall asleep

 

Please explain more about this.

[Markolo1980]

@Gridley thank you very much for your reply. Whats your opinion when to take those supplements? And do you think is smart to take vitamin B?

 

@Altostrata to be honest, it is getting better. No more brain zaps, im less nervous and no more problems with being still, cause before i had these crazy need to move... regarding sleep, just before I fall asleep I have this strange feeling of not breathing and than it scars me and of course prevents me to normaly fall back to sleep.... anyone had this symptoms? This is completely new to me, I did gain some new fears since on paxil withdrawal and belive this is one of them

[Gridley]

6 hours ago, Markolo1980 said:

 

@Gridley thank you very much for your reply. Whats your opinion when to take those supplements? And do you think is smart to take vitamin B?

 

 

I take an Omega after breakfast, lunch and dinner.  I can't tolerate too much magnesium (it varies from person to person), so I only take 100mg  when I wake up in the middle of the night to help me get back to sleep.  You may be able to tolerate more. Some members dissolve the magnesium in water and sip it throughout the day.

 

B vitamins can be very activating (stimulating) and we do not recommend them.

[Erell]

Hi markolo,

 

From where are you in Europe ?

 

I'm glad To read that you Feel a bit better !

Thank you for your support on my thread!

 

Have à Nice day!

[Markolo1980]

Hi @Erell, im from ljubljana-slovenia. You just hang on and try to get over this wave, belive me i know exactly how it feels...

[Erell]

Yes I read that you are holding since 4 months, I'm sure you know how it feels  Nice To have a new "paxil-buddy " !

hang on : you're seeing improvments, so good !

Enjoy your day

[Markolo1980]

My diary entry:

 

Tuesday 29.10.19 

feeling great 10/10

 

wednesday 30.10.19

feeling great 10/10

 

thursday 31.10.19

feeling great 10/10

 

friday 1.11.19

feeling great 10/10

 

saturday 2.11.19

feeling ok 9/10

( few moments during the day feeling nervousness, managed it with a walk)

 

sunday 3.11.19

feeling ok 8/10

episodes of nervousness

 

monday 4.11.19

feeling ok 8/10

episodes of not being well 

 

tuesday 5.11.19

Feeling 7/10

took a injection of human growth hormone ( minimum) as a test will it help me feel better , cause I read HGH works very similar to ADs and effects  on serotonin level. Few hours later experiencing huge nervousness. Needed some time to calm down.

 

@Altostrata , @Gridley did anyone had any experience with hgh here so far?

[Altostrata]

On 10/23/2019 at 11:33 PM, Markolo1980 said:

....to be honest, it is getting better. No more brain zaps, im less nervous and no more problems with being still, cause before i had these crazy need to move... regarding sleep, just before I fall asleep I have this strange feeling of not breathing and than it scars me and of course prevents me to normaly fall back to sleep.... anyone had this symptoms? This is completely new to me, I did gain some new fears since on paxil withdrawal and belive this is one of them

 

It seems you were gradually improving in our expected pattern of The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Please stop trying drug experiments to hurry this process along. Your nervous system is very sensitive from the adverse drug events and now it's upset more because of HGH. You will have to be patient and let it settle down.

 

Taking something that increases serotonin might well cause you to feel much, much worse, a condition called kindling. Don't try to balance your neurotransmitters, that's a fallacy.

 

Exactly what are you taking now, at what times of day and dosages.

[Markolo1980]

@Altostrata I thought it was not going to be a good idea. Won’t do it again.

 

my day goes like this:

 

-with breakfast I take omega-3 850mg EPA 

( doing it last  14 days )

 

-with lunch I take magnesium 400mg 

( doing it for the past 3 months)
 

- later on i take B12 3000ù 

( doing it for the past half year, past month just taking a bit stronger ones)

 

- before bed I take 20mg paxil 

( since beginning dr.told me to take it before bedtime)

 

will be happy for any advice !

 

[Altostrata]

Is this what you were taking before HGH?

 

8 hours ago, Markolo1980 said:

tuesday 5.11.19

Feeling 7/10

took a injection of human growth hormone ( minimum) as a test will it help me feel better , cause I read HGH works very similar to ADs and effects  on serotonin level. Few hours later experiencing huge nervousness. Needed some time to calm down.

 

Since you just did this, we can't tell anything right now from your symptom pattern.

[Markolo1980]

Yes, thats what I was taking all along and still am. Past few days I have this new feeling like hot flashe. It happens once or twice per day. Is it a WD symptom?

[Altostrata]

Since your experiment with HGH, we can't tell what's causing symptoms. Not everything is a withdrawal symptom. You need to recover from the HGH, we can't fix that.

 

Please post your symptom pattern again when something significant changes.

[Markolo1980]

Now I know it was stupid what I did with HGH experiment. @Altostrata, was there anyone in history of this forum to have experience with HGH during AD therapy?

 

 

[Altostrata]

Not that I know of, though we have had people get adverse reactions from steroids. You'll have to be patient, let your system reset.

[Markolo1980]

Thank you for your answers , they mean a lot to me....

 

have a beautiful Sunday!

[Markolo1980]

HI there,

 

Its been 6 months since last reduction and anxiety hit me pretty good. Is this normal to experience WD even so late after reduction ? ( my last reduction was a bit too big...) Anxiety has been on and off for the past week. Would be happy for any words from your friends out there. Anxiety switches with dizziness practically all the time...

 

anyone?

[Altostrata]

Markolo, are you talking about going from 30mg Paxil to 20mg in June?

 

If I were you, I'd updose slightly to 22mg. This topic explains how to take small amounts Tips for tapering off Paxil (paroxetine)

[Markolo1980]

Yes @Altostrata regarding that one.

 

hm, I appreciate your suggestion, but I wouldsee it as a step back.I’ll try to hold on for another few days and than eventually if it doesnt get better I’ll do it.. what is your experience from the forum, is it possible for WD to visit us even half a year later?

[Altostrata]

Have you accidentally skipped any doses recently, taken any new drugs, or drunk any alcohol? Any of these can cause an upset.

[pinciukas]

On 10/24/2019 at 8:33 AM, Markolo1980 said:

@Gridley thank you very much for your reply. Whats your opinion when to take those supplements? And do you think is smart to take vitamin B?

 

@Altostrata to be honest, it is getting better. No more brain zaps, im less nervous and no more problems with being still, cause before i had these crazy need to move... regarding sleep, just before I fall asleep I have this strange feeling of not breathing and than it scars me and of course prevents me to normaly fall back to sleep.... anyone had this symptoms? This is completely new to me, I did gain some new fears since on paxil withdrawal and belive this is one of them

I have this symptom with forgot to breath! You are first from who I hear this. I have this all long during my tappering some night on and off. But always in the moment I am falling asleep not other time.

[Markolo1980]

@Altostrata noup none of that, only that I can think off is seeing a bioenergetic who said I might have some problems during seeing him ( over 3-4 weeks). Do you have any experience similar on forum?

 

@pinciukas so Im not alone 😀. I experienced it only few times, but than it was gone. Are you ok now?

[Altostrata]

Did you stop smoking or anythiing?

 

Have your symptoms gradually been getting worse over the last few months?

 

Paxil is a very difficult drug to go off.

[Markolo1980]

Hi @Altostrata, no it didnt get worse. Just from time to time they come strongly up and ususally diminish...

 

Luckily I never did smoke

 

So, what is your opinion is going on here, just a ''wave'' ?

 

all the best from cold Europe

[pinciukas]

14 hours ago, Markolo1980 said:

@Altostrata noup none of that, only that I can think off is seeing a bioenergetic who said I might have some problems during seeing him ( over 3-4 weeks). Do you have any experience similar on forum?

 

@pinciukas so Im not alone 😀. I experienced it only few times, but than it was gone. Are you ok now?

@Markolo1980 Kind of ok but I had today anxiety but this is not drugs inducted I just caused myself with my health anxiety. I am thinking to updose more maybe up to 10 mg to feel less anxiety because I have therapy for only in April... After updose seems that Seroxat worked for me I don't know small updose difficult to say anything 

[Markolo1980]

Hi @pinciukas....I checked your story and my opinion is that you change dosage too often. But than again who am I to advise 😀. I see your max dosage was 20mg. I was on 40mg! Nobody said this drug is so powerful. Before I was on cipralex and it was great, but after my CT it seems like it didn’t work anymore....

hope we have better day tomorrow 😉

 

[pinciukas]

2 minutes ago, Markolo1980 said:

Hi @pinciukas....I checked your story and my opinion is that you change dosage too often. But than again who am I to advise 😀. I see your max dosage was 20mg. I was on 40mg! Nobody said this drug is so powerful. Before I was on cipralex and it was great, but after my CT it seems like it didn’t work anymore....

hope we have better day tomorrow 😉

I have filled my history not correct I see now but my dosage is like this:

Seroxat 20 mg and almost 2 years ago beginning tappering down 10%. Until I reached 5.5 mg and crashed really bad. 

Then January updose to 7 mg. 

I filled in wrong numbers just checked my notes

L

[Markolo1980]

Hi there.

 

On saturday I had a top day!!!! it was 10 of 10. I was me finally, but…..unfortunatelly yesterday evening I was hit with a massive anxiety and still going on today.  Its been exactly half a year since my last reduction, which was to fast I know that now. ( from 30mg to 20mg of paxil ). I can not find trigger for this anxiety now...well I did stop taking B12 supplements last week. Maybe this is an answer to that? Any idea? Should I take xanax when its really hard? I havent taken it almost a year….

[Erell]

Hi Markolo , 

 

this top day is a huge progress ! It shows that your CNS is not broken, he can reach this state, and he will again !

I know how hard it is when a hit of symptoms happen after such a great day , but stay strong, you're still you, and your CNS is working hard to heal.

 

About Xaanax, I would advise to not take it : to reach stability, your CNS need the same information everyday. By adding an other molecule, you scramble the message.

 

Best wishes ❤️

 

[Markolo1980]

Hi @Erell, thanks for the note! Hope you’re doing great....

[Markolo1980]

Hi friends, hope somebody will answer to this...

 

 I can not stabilize, and in november I was all ready doing pretty well. Today I’ve been having this feeling of extreme weakness, diarrhea, almost vomited and high anxiety. My dosage is the same since my last reduction in june 2019. Only difference there is I stopped b12 supplement ( 3000 ug) about a week ago which I was taken for almost 5months.

 

nothing else has changed, no alcohol, nothing.

 

is this normal to be almost fine and than after all this long time since last reduction symptoms come back so strong? Should I go back on b12?

 

please help

[Altostrata]

Did you feel well in November? When did these feelings start? How often do you get them?

 

Why did you go off B12?

 

Have you changed drug brands recently? Skipped any doses? Taken any off-schedule? Could you be getting influenza?

[Markolo1980]

Hi @Altostrata

 

yes in november I was fine! It started middle of December. I thought maybe its b12 so I stopped last week. I get it like every day or every other day.

brand is the same, never skipped a dose, I take it regularly before sleep. 
 

I dont have flu. Is it possible i have serotonin syndrome?

 

im thinking of updose to 25mg paxil since i have 20mg pils and its hard to go to 22mg.
 

please respond 😢

[Altostrata]

Did you add any drugs in the middle of December? Drunk any alcohol?

 

It's not serotonin syndrome if you didn't add any other drugs.

[Markolo1980]

Hi @Altostrata, no other drugs no alcohol.

 

only difference there is , I’ve been visiting an energy healer, but don’t know if that can somehow trigger my symptoms....any previous history on SA with this experience??