NightWarrior: Prozac bridge from Venlafaxine

[NightWarrior]

Hello all,

first thank you for this really helpful forum.

I started taking Venlafaxine 150 back in 2016. Later in 2018 i started tapering it off with 5-10% rule. In 2020 I arrived finally at 50mg. At this point however I got strong withdrawal symptoms even with 5%. I learned then about the Prozac bridge method and i thought I give it a try. So i am now off the Venlafaxine for about 2 months and now i only take Fluoxetine 13mg.

However I still have some withdrawal problems from the venlafaxine 2 months later. It is not that bad, but mostly my brain is hurting headache and strange feelings and tingeling at my brain.

I think I will now stay on the Prozac 13mg until the problems go away and then see how fast i can taper the prozac. Or would you say it would be better to go back to the Venlafaxine after 2 months now already because of the symptoms, I am now afraid that those will last years as I have read on some other cold turkey cases.

 

Thanks 

NightWarrior

Edited October 5, 2020 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, NightWarrior.

 

To give members the best information, we ask them to summarize their medication history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly.  Please include the date(s) of your Prozac bridge, whether it was a gradual bridge or a straight switch, and the dose of Prozac you switched to (13mg?).

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

It is often the case that replacing one drug with another doesn't eliminate withdrawal symptoms from the first drug. There's no way to predict how long withdrawal symptoms will last, but I would assume the best case rather than worst case scenario.  It's very encouraging that your symptoms are not that bad.

 

It's best to make as few changes as possible, and I would agree with you in your decision to stay on the 13mg Prozac.  I would, as you said, wait until the problems go away before tapering the Prozac.  This may take several months.

 

When you're ready to taper, we recommend tapering by no more than 10% of current dose every four weeks.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

This link is specifically about tapering Prozac, including how to get the non-standard doses you'll need for your 10% taper.  If liquid Prozac is available in Germany, this would be the easiest way to taper.  You would need to do a crossover from tablet to liquid by taking half your dose in tablet and half in liquid for one week. But, again, you need to stabilize on the Prozac before tapering.  

Tips for tapering off fluoxetine (Prozac)

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NightWarrior]

Hello Gridley,

thank you very much for your answer it helps a lot.

I did a slow cross taper switch over 2 weeks. Removing Venla on day 8 11 12 and 13 (4 pellets overall, on every day one) and on day 1 10mg Prozac and on day 10 13mg prozac.

I will stay then on the prozac and i hope it will not be that bad and that i did not screw up myself with the prozac switch. Future will tell. 

Thanks

NightWarrior

[NightWarrior]

Hello,

 

small question: Does anybody know if Venlafaxine and Fluoxetine both act on the same type of serotonin receptors or are there just one type?

I know Venlafaxine also acts on norepinephrine which Fluoxetin does not, but does Fluoxetin act on the same serotonin receptors as Venlafaxine and carry over that function or are there like different kinds of serotonin receptors for different substances? Because if they are the same, that would calm me down a lot. 

 

Thanks 

NIghtWarrior

[Holly26]

How are you doing? 

 

Im currently trying the same and im so scared . Tapering 8mg Venlafaxin with 5mg Fluoxetin.  

 

Would you say it was going ok?

[NightWarrior]

Hello Holly26,

 

it got better so I don't regret the switch, but i am still waiting more before i taper the Prozac. The first months after the switch were a bit harder and the brain is working to adapt but really not that bad. So I don't regret it but you have to decide for yourself. If the tapering of Venlafaxine is working fine as well i wouldn't necessarily switch, only if you feel making progress with the venlafaxine is becoming too hard. Hope it helps!

[Holly26]

Thank you very much for your answer!

 

I took prozac for 6 days and got down to 3mg Effexor.  Not without symptoms but it did ease them a bit. I dont know if i should continue the prozac im scared im getting hocked on that 😳. Since Venlafaxin WD i am so so scared

[NightWarrior]

Hello,

 

well you are now hooked on Effexor so if you swap the effexor against prozac in the worst case you are also just hooked to one substance.

But I understand I was also scared but for me it was the correct decision to swap I think. Everything will be fine it just might take some time. I wish you the very best!

[Holly26]

Hello Nightwarrior,

 

thank you for your answer!

Do you think i have to taper off Prozac after taking it for 6 days? 

Did you bridge with prozac and did get off of Effexor ok? After the horrific wd from Effexor im scared im hocked on Fluoxetin and start all over again. 

THANKS

[NightWarrior]

Hi Holly26,

 

yes I did the switch over 2 weeks as described in this forum i was taking venlafaxine and over 2 weeks i reduced the venlafaxine to zero and the prozac to 13 mg. And now i am only on the prozac. But I wait still longer before i taper that. Of course there are some wd symptoms but it was not so bad. After you did the switch you will have to see how fast you can taper the prozac. Maybe you can only reduce by 5-10% anyways after you switched to prozac but maybe faster. Nobody can tell. Good luck!

 

[Holly26]

Thank you for your assistance. I stopped Fluoxetin after 6 days ( today) because im scared i will have to taper this for another year. Maybe its already too late. I dont know. Im down to 3mg Effexor. 

Well done for being completely off of Effexor!!! Thats quite an achievement!!! My WD started to get really bad at around 35mg. Even small reductions where , to say the least, difficult. 

[Sebas]

@Holly26 Effexor has a very short halflife. Fluoxetine has a long halflife. Tapering fluoxetine should compared to effexor be relatively easy.

[NightWarrior]

Hello all,

 

I have a small question. It is now almost a year since i switched from Venlafaxine to prozac. I am still taking 13mg of prozac, so i did not reduce anything.

My question is, would it be possible now, to go back to the Venlafaxine or would this be too risky? And if I do, would this stop this withdrawal state I am still in? The symptomes are not bad, but I can't take supplements or they trigger symptoms. Also I have to be very careful with what i eat and need a lot of resting. So If I would go back now, are the chances that i return back to normal or not?

Thanks

[Go2zero]

I would be very careful in switching back to venlafaxine. Switching to other AD's and also reinstating, updosing may all worsen WD.

 

Furthermore venlafaxine is known te be extremely difficult to taper in the lower dosages, since the SERT level stays extremely high until 37,5mg. When you would go under the level of 37,5mg venlafaxine, the SERT drops so extremely fast with every minor dosage reduction that WD is often unbearable.

 

It might be the case that you still suffer from WD from venlafaxine. I had the same after I switched from escitalopram to prozac. Although one makes a cross over and switch, it happens more often that we still go through WD effect of the drug we stopped....

[NightWarrior]

Hello Go2zero,

 

thanks so much for your answer.

 

Yes I also think now it would be better not to go back, because nobody knows if I still tolarate the venlafaxine and it would stress my brain again.

I indeed still have some WD since the switch from the Venlafaxine but it is okay, nothing too bad. It is just sh*tty that I can't even take Omega 3 because it triggers symptoms. And fish I can not eat because i am vegetarian so i can only have ALA until the WD is gone and some studies say ALA alone is not enough but yeah...

 

[getofflex]

17 hours ago, NightWarrior said:

My question is, would it be possible now, to go back to the Venlafaxine or would this be too risky? And if I do, would this stop this withdrawal state I am still in?

We at SA generally do not suggest using drugs or switching drugs to deal with withdrawal.  These drugs are what got us into trouble in the first place. I agree with go2zero, it could very well make the WD worse.  Stability is very important for healing from WD.   In a few extreme cases we suggest switching drugs, but only rarely.  

 

1 hour ago, NightWarrior said:

I indeed still have some WD since the switch from the Venlafaxine but it is okay, nothing too bad.

In that case, it sounds like you are doing well for someone in WD.  

 

Keep it Simple, Slow, and Stable

[NightWarrior]

On 7/11/2021 at 2:40 PM, getofflex said:

In that case, it sounds like you are doing well for someone in WD.  

 

Keep it Simple, Slow, and Stable

Hello,

 

I know it sounds crazy but I would feel better If I had a little more symptomes because they are a sign of healing going on right.

My nervous system is still very sensible and broken, I can't take anything that is neuroactive like Omega 3 or Vitamin D and need a lot of resting.

And now I am very scared that this may be permanent exactly because I have little symptomes and I know how it feels If the brain is working to heal itself and that is not going on currently.

Still wondering if I should try to add a mini Dose Venlafaxine to see how i react, like 1 MG or so.

[getofflex]

I would not suggest that you add a mini dose of venlafaxine. You’ve been off this drug for a year. That’s likely to just confuse and throw your nervous system off even more. Your brain can be healing even if you don’t have many symptoms. Having lots of symptoms is not a sign of the brain healing as much as it is a sign of the nervous system being in disequilibrium.  The fact that your symptoms are gradually decreasing is a better sign of your brain healing.  

[NightWarrior]

Thanks a lot getofflex, that helps me a lot. I think I just need to be more patient and worry a bit less.

[NightWarrior]

Hello,

 

just a small update, also for people that think about doing Prozac bridge.

It is now a bit more then a year since i switched from venlafaxine to prozac (13mg).

I am still on the 13mg.

I don't have a lot of pain or emotional problems from the switch, but my emotions came back and i can feel them again.

 

However my brain still doesn't feel normal. It works all the time on different areas of the brain, I am hoping this is the brain working to repear itself.

I am still very sensitive to anything that is neuroactive. I can eat fish, but 30 minutes after I eat it I can feel the omega 3 arriving in my brain. But I eat some because omega 3 is important and it does not hurt.

My two main problems that I still have are 1. that my memory has become very bad, last week my brother called me and I was like what is this number? As if I had never seen it before. Sometimes I feel a bit "drunk" and drowsy for no reason. Also I still need a LOT of rest. If I work for 1-2 hours, I need 1-2 hours rest afterwards. Sometimes I am mentally exhausted 10 minutes after I wake up.

So if you are thinking about the prozac bridge, I would only do it if you have 1-2 years of time where you can get a lot of rest and not have to work hard. 

Prozac bridge is still a bit of a cold turkey but with a lot less pain than no prozac.

My personal main fear is that the problems (memory, exhaustion) will not go away and stay but only future can tell. 

Thanks and greetings

[NightWarrior]

Hello,

 

also does anyone know, if I should try lamotrigine with a mini dose or not?

 

I did the prozac bridge from Venlafaxine to Fluoxetine a year ago and still have wd problems.

They are not extremly bad but bad. So I would then take fluoxetine 13mg and a mini dose of lamotrigine?

Or is it better to just wait and not do anything? On the Venlafaxine i dont want to go back and you also recommended that I should not go back.

So the only other thing I could still try is the lamotrigine but I am not sure. Thanks

[Holly26]

Hi Nightwarrior,

 

do you consider taking lamotrigin in order to ease WD or for sth else? 

Im about to start it for bipolar and im off of Effexor for about 6 month. 

 

Best wishes

[NightWarrior]

Hello Holly26,

 

yes for WD and to make my brain heal faster.

[Holly26]

Not sure if it helps with withdrawl its not an SSRI and works on different receptors but im desperate aswell. I will take it

[NightWarrior]

Hello,

 

I have a small question. I am currently in WDnormal.

My question is, if omega 3 causes some symptomes should i take it / eat fish or not?

If I dont take i have less symptomes, but on the other hand, the brain needs omega 3 to heal right?

Is the best strategy here to take a lot of omega 3 and "go through the pain" to heal my brain or avoid omega 3?

Because when i take omega 3, the symptomes kinda feel like the brain uses it to heal and reconnect itself.

And the location of the "pain" switches every 2 hours or so to different brain parts, as if the brain works on different areas all the time.

It is not so much a strong pain hard to describe how it feels, more like a dragging feeling.

Thanks

[Sebas]

On 12/23/2021 at 6:44 PM, NightWarrior said:

I have a small question. I am currently in WDnormal.

My question is, if omega 3 causes some symptomes should i take it / eat fish or not?

If I dont take i have less symptomes, but on the other hand, the brain needs omega 3 to heal right?

Is the best strategy here to take a lot of omega 3 and "go through the pain" to heal my brain or avoid omega 3?

Because when i take omega 3, the symptomes kinda feel like the brain uses it to heal and reconnect itself.

And the location of the "pain" switches every 2 hours or so to different brain parts, as if the brain works on different areas all the time.

It is not so much a strong pain hard to describe how it feels, more like a dragging feeling.

Thanks

 

Dear Night Warrior,

 

In general omega 3 fishoil can be a relieve to WD symptoms. Under circumstances however, like you acknowledged before yourself, omega 3 can be to much of a neuroactive substance and wd symptoms can become worse. For this reason, i strongly recommend (and can personally relate to) avoid using it at least for the time being. In fact, anything, that will make wd symptons worse, should be avoided as much as possible. For example caffeine, chocolate, alcohol, certain herbs, most supplements etc. Brain will also be healing from tapering without fish, your brain is not broken ;) just struggling to find balance again.

 

Furthermore, forget considering that some symptoms might be permanent, such as cognitive problems or fatigue. Those are in fact just anxiety driven thoughts from withdrawal. Any withdrawal symptoms will eventually fade away. The more you (accept and) ignor them, the quicker they fade away. Like John Forbes Nash Junior did in the movie called 'a beautiful mind'. Great movie to watch from this perspective.

 

Schöne grüssen,

Sebas

 

 

[Sebas]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:24 AM, NightWarrior said:

Hello Holly26,

 

yes for WD and to make my brain heal faster.

 

There is no such thing as speeding up the withdrawal or healing process, at most making withdrawal more bearable.

[NightWarrior]

Hello,

 

i just want to share over the last couple of weeks i started doing exercise on a treadmill and I think my brain is healing better and faster!

So if you are in WDnormal and you are not in an acute phase, exercise and getting the pulse rate up 2 times a week can help a lot don't underestimate the effect of exercise on the brain.

 

What I do is i make sure there is Omega 3 (vegan) in my brain and blood stream, no refined sugar and water and do 20-30 mins on the treatmil. After that i can literally feel my brain rewiring itself and healing itself.

Exercise activates molecules that help to repair the brain.

 

For instance, cardio activates a molecule called brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF). BDNF helps repair brain cells and make new brain cells. It’s also been associated with a larger hippocampus, the brain region that stores and retrieves memories.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3208643/#:~:text=Omega-3 fatty acids (i.e.,and protect against neurological lesion.

 

 

So if you are for years in WDnormal like me and wondering why it is not getting better a lot and you are not in an acute state, exercise can help a lot but start slowly.

[NightWarrior]

Hello,

 

I am now 3 years after the prozac bridge and my brain is still in withdrawal. I wanted to ask if I could try adding a few beads of Venlafaxine back to see how it reacts? I mean if it doesn't work I can just remove it again right. 

Also I thought it gets gradually better? I just watched a video with alto where she says that after 5 years she almost committed suicide so the worst might still come for me.

[Kaz112114]

On 10/17/2023 at 2:59 AM, NightWarrior said:

Hello,

 

I am now 3 years after the prozac bridge and my brain is still in withdrawal. I wanted to ask if I could try adding a few beads of Venlafaxine back to see how it reacts? I mean if it doesn't work I can just remove it again right. 

Also I thought it gets gradually better? I just watched a video with alto where she says that after 5 years she almost committed suicide so the worst might still come for me.

It sounds like protracted withdraw. It can happen when you don't taper slow enough (can take years depending on the dose and person). If you did a fast taper and switched to prozac that's probably why you feel the way you do. Reinstating is usually early on in the tapering process. I've heard of withdraws hitting hard after a few months, but never that long. I'm on 150mg of Effexor and I'm having withdrawals while taking my full dose and I haven't even tried to taper yet. My doctor gave me prozac, but I don't even know where to start with how much prozac to add while doing a 3% taper down every couple of months. I feel you.

[NightWarrior]

16 hours ago, Kaz112114 said:

It sounds like protracted withdraw. It can happen when you don't taper slow enough (can take years depending on the dose and person). If you did a fast taper and switched to prozac that's probably why you feel the way you do. Reinstating is usually early on in the tapering process. I've heard of withdraws hitting hard after a few months, but never that long. I'm on 150mg of Effexor and I'm having withdrawals while taking my full dose and I haven't even tried to taper yet. My doctor gave me prozac, but I don't even know where to start with how much prozac to add while doing a 3% taper down every couple of months. I feel you.

Hey there,

 

my withdrawal is not hitting me "hard" anymore and I mostly did not go through extreme suffering (maybe at the start of the switch a bit) but my brain is still in withdrawal 3,5 years after the switch from Venla to fluoxetine. 

So while I am still in withdrawal it is mostly fine now. My remaining symptomes are cognitive and memory problems, have to be very careful with neuroactive substances and supplements (it can get too much very quickly). Also I am exhausted after a couple of hours of work (1-4 hours its different from day to day, then i need some rest). So while it is not fully normal again for me I can life with it especially because I only work part-time. 

 

But before trying prozac bridge you should try to remove the effexor in very small steps without prozac. The prozac strategy is more a last option kind of thing.

 

Greetings and good luck