☼ Hsph: olanzapine and Abilify - reinstating after cold turkey withdrawal effect

[Hsph]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I've just hidden my previous post.  I'm getting a bit confused and that might have been wrong information.  I will try and find out more information.

Thank you, i ve been looking for help from my psychiatrist, but he said : no comment. He wants me to keep consuming depakote , i need to start with the right type of depakote(eg EC / ER / just depakote) and will taper it with the same type.

I wish i could just use the normal ones, So it will make consistent effect.

[ChessieCat]

I'm still trying to work out what each one is.

 

What are the types available in Indonesia?

 

What do you mean by "just depakote"?

[Hsph]

15 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

I don't think so.

 

See Enteric Coating: An Overview - Pharmapproach.com

 

.

Thank you for fast reply , thx a lot Cheesiecat

[Hsph]

8 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I'm still trying to work out what each one is.

 

What are the types available in Indonesia?

 

What do you mean by "just depakote"?

250mg ER and 250mg (just depakote) 

 

I mean it just depakote no ER. I think it can be titration

[Hsph]

afer i checked my body there like skin rash with white liquid on top of it, and i am confuse now, to continue depakote or not. i feel fine now without it. in 1 hour i should take another depakote. i think i will cut half and reduce it to 125mg from 250 mg Depakote EC. (250mg yesterday was a bit too strong)

 

is skin rash one of the severe adverse effect ? i have read online, if you got skin rash that means the meds is not for you. it a vital sign. 

is it true? 

 

lovely mods please also answer my question :

 is it true or not , when you hit the lower doses you got to taper is hit hardest (Withdrawal Symptoms)? or depends on people?

Eg : from 5 to 2.5 is easy 2.5 to 0 is the hardest?? or vice versa?

 

I just went to pharmacist and they told me Depakote 250mg EC can be crushed by mortar and pestle. the coating just made for stomach irritation prevention. i don't know whether is it true or not. but i have GI Tract problem. i should be careful and rethink again whether continuing the meds. because its gonna take a long time. 

 

[Hsph]

One more question:

How do you know you are stabilize and ready to taper again? 

Window?

[Altostrata]

@Hsph, you are currently taking Depakote, clozapine, and olanzapine, is that correct?

 

These are all supposed to be for "depression"?

 

It is possible that making drug changes or going off olanzapine caused you to have withdrawal insomnia. It is possible only one drug, olanzapine, is necessary to help you sleep, at a lower dose than 5mg. I do not understand why you added clozapine on October 24. Depakote, clozapine, Abilify, and olanzapine are drugs that all do the same thing, they are anti-psychotics. These are unnecessary drug combinations.

 

You are also taking other drugs? Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

 

What times of day (o'clock) do you take these drugs, and their dosages?

 

You seem to participate in creating your own drug cocktails. Please be aware if you continue to ask the psychiatrist to give you drugs for "depression", the doctor will continue to add drugs. We do not treat "depression" here, we help people taper off drugs. If you want to go off the drugs, you will have to cope with whatever caused you to take drugs in the first place, maybe "depression", with non-drug techniques.

 

We cannot help you taper off the drugs without causing some changes. It is likely when you go off drugs, you will feel odd. You might even feel "depressed". If you ask the doctor to treat the "depression", you will get more drugs.

 

Do you understand how this works? It's a waste of time for us to coach you in tapering drugs if you're going to go back to the doctor and ask for more drugs.

 

If you want to know how to go off any particular drug, look in this list

 

[Hsph]

I will answer that later. I am on psychosis now, depersonalization, i to stabilize first, i am afraid long term effect... Should i stop olanzapine? Or clozapine? I cannot sleep without clozapine. Olanzapine should be fast tapered?

[Hsph]

Doctor gave me clozapine so i can sleep

[ChessieCat]

13 minutes ago, Hsph said:

I will answer that later. I am on psychosis now, depersonalization, i to stabilize first, i am afraid long term effect... Should i stop olanzapine? Or clozapine? I cannot sleep without clozapine. Olanzapine should be fast tapered?

 

We cannot answer your questions until you answer Alto's questions.

[Hsph]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

you are currently taking Depakote, clozapine, and olanzapine, is that correct?

yes

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What times of day (o'clock) do you take these drugs, and their dosages?

 

Olanzapine 11:00 AM

Depakote 15:30 PM

Clozapine 10:30 PM

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You are also taking other drugs?

no

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Do you understand how this works?

yes i know. i think i just wanna back to my old self and cope with non drug coping skills. but its super hard now. my parents are pharmacist, they know a lot of doctor, they wants me on drugs to cure my depression, but i against that. thats how i can make drug changes so quickly.

 

now they want me to off olanzapine abruptly or change olanzapine to replace clozapine. 

just like you Alto, my father said, use olanzapine to replace clozapine in the night using higher dose. so i can sleep.  

 

please help advise, i took more than 10 days clozapine now, can i stopped it abruptly? i took 2.5 mg clozapine each night . its alreaedy over 1 week

[Shep]

17 hours ago, Hsph said:

Thank you, i ve been looking for help from my psychiatrist, but he said : no comment. He wants me to keep consuming depakote , i need to start with the right type of depakote(eg EC / ER / just depakote) and will taper it with the same type.

I wish i could just use the normal ones, So it will make consistent effect.

 

Why do you need to taper the Depakote? You reinstated it for only 2 days after being off it since October 12 after less than a month's use, according to your signature. 

 

It's safe to just stop taking it. 

 

27 minutes ago, Hsph said:

please help advise, i took more than 10 days clozapine now, can i stopped it abruptly? i took 2.5 mg clozapine each night . its alreaedy over 1 week

 

Yes, either stop taking it or do a rapid taper with 25% reductions over the next few days. 

 

You need to find a way to handle your symptoms with without reaching for a drug. 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by ChessieCat
corrected error with / without

[ChessieCat]

27 minutes ago, Hsph said:

my parents are pharmacist, they know a lot of doctor, they wants me on drugs to cure my depression, but i against that. thats how i can make drug changes so quickly.

 

You need to do your own research and make your own decisions.  Not many medical professionals understand psychiatric drugs/withdrawal/adverse reactions.  That is why this site exists.

 

Learning about psychiatric drugs can help you to make informed decisions.

 

I suggest that you listen to this podcast - about 45 minutes.  It is an interview with Altostrata (SA's founder) and she talks about her own research and withdrawal experience and why she started this website when she was unable to get help from the medical professionals for her Paxil withdrawal symptoms.  INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder  

 

These are also very good.  Please watch them as well.  Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years:

 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  Manipulating Doctors to Sell More Drugs (10 minute video)

[Hsph]

36 minutes ago, Shep said:

It's safe to just stop taking it. 

okay, but now i remembered why i go to psychiatric i was depressed and having racing thought. i think i am real bipolar. i cant think now. 

 

30 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

  INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder  

 

These are also very good.  Please watch them as well.  Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years:

 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  Manipulating Doctors to Sell More Drugs (10 minute video)

thanks i will watch it

[Hsph]

46 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

You need to do your own research and make your own decisions.  Not many medical professionals understand psychiatric drugs/withdrawal/adverse reactions.  That is why this site exists.

 

Learning about psychiatric drugs can help you to make informed decisions.

 

I suggest that you listen to this podcast - about 45 minutes.  It is an interview with Altostrata (SA's founder) and she talks about her own research and withdrawal experience and why she started this website when she was unable to get help from the medical professionals for her Paxil withdrawal symptoms.  INTERVIEW with Altostrata, SA's founder  

 

These are also very good.  Please watch them as well.  Gwen Olsen was a pharmaceutical representative for 15 years:

 

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)
 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  Manipulating Doctors to Sell More Drugs (10 minute video)

i have read the articles. so its means i need to completely off the drugs(slow taper) and cope with it until the times comes to heal.  right?

theres no reason to stay on drugs. 

 

but how to cope with WD syndrome? i feel hell everyday i cant sleep well. i wanna die. i just took it 1 month. its crazy

 

[ChessieCat]

9 minutes ago, Hsph said:

i think i am real bipolar. i cant think now. 

 

Once you have taken a psychiatric drug, a new diagnoses CANNOT be made because you have taken chemicals which alter your brain.

 

This is an excerpt from the book

 

It is about mania but can relate to drug induced depressive feelings and racing thoughts.  I have highlighted the part about the DSM which is what I was referring to above.

  

On 10/15/2016 at 6:31 PM, nz11 said:

Mania and hypomania are controversial side-effects of antidepressants.

 

Mania is a severe psychiatric condition consisting of an elevated, or high, mood it can include grandiosity, rapid speech, racing thoughts, irritability, distractibility, agitation, insomnia, reckless behaviour (e.g. buying sprees or sexual indiscretions), delusions, and hallucinations.

 

Hypomania is a milder version of mania. This relatively new psychiatric diagnosis became officially established only in the mid-1990s. At the time mania was officially renamed bipolar I  so that hypomania could be named bipolar II.

 

Antidepressants can certainly make patients look manic or hypomanic. But the American APA DSM explicitly states that “manic like [or hypomanic –like] episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g. medication) should not count toward a diagnosis of bipolar I or bipolar II disorder because these are drug induced states.

 

But pharmaceutical companies and psychiatrists who are zealous drug proponents have misled countless patients and doctors to believe the antidepressant induced manic -like states indicate the patient has an underlying bipolar illness that was merely brought out or triggered by the drug.

 

The DSM also states clearly that “no laboratory findings [that is tests] that are diagnostic of a manic episode have been identified.” In other words, there is no blood test, x-ray, brain scan, or any other test to objectively definitively diagnose someone with a bipolar disorder. Instead, bipolar disorder is a diagnosis made on the basis of the patient’s behaviour and mental state.

 

If a patient who is not on any drugs becomes manic, then one can reasonably conclude that the patient has bipolar disorder. But, if the manic -like state is caused by an antidepressant, this is a drug induced state, which, although it may mimic bipolar disorder is not actually bipolar disorder, as explicitly stated by the DSM, psychiatry’s official diagnostic manual.

 

In recent years, the pharmaceutical industry has inundated doctors with “educational” material on “bipolar depression,” promoting the idea that depressed patients who became anxious, agitated, and sleepless on antidepressants, are bipolar: bipolar II if the patients ”just” become anxious, agitated and sleepless; Bipolar I if they become paranoid reckless or psychotic.

Bipolar I or bipolar II doesn’t matter, the “treatment” is more drugs, powerful antimanic agents.

 

Psychiatric diagnosis are subject to manipulation because there are no objective medical tests by which to diagnose any psychiatric condition.

 

The subjectivity of the psychiatric diagnosis makes them vulnerable to commercial exploitation.

 

When people take so much cocaine that they have manic -like reactions and end up in the emergency room, they diagnosed with cocaine toxicity.

 

When people have manic like reactions to steroids, they are diagnosed with steroid toxicity.

 

Yet when people have the same type of reactions to antidepressants, they are misdiagnosed with so-called “underlying bipolar disorder.” The practice protects antidepressants and promotes antimanic agents, which have become multibillion-dollar a year drugs.

 

 

 

[Hsph]

today drug changes :

stop clozapine

stop depakote

night : 5mg olanzapine

 

my father insist to take depakote 250mg

 

this is my crucial moment please help, 

please advise on kindling effect if i usually took 0.3 mg olanzapine in the afternoon , and now i suddenly took 5 mg olanzapine in the night to replace clozapine, what will happen? 

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, Hsph said:

i need to completely off the drugs(slow taper) and cope with it until the times comes to heal.  right?

 

The recovery happens as you reduce your drugs carefully, but it also continues after you have stopped the drugs.

 

Please see Post #1 of this topic, it might help you to understand the process:

 

how-psychiatric-drugs-remodel-your-brain

 

[Hsph]

10 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

The recovery happens as you reduce your drugs carefully, but it also continues after you have stopped the drugs.

 

Please see Post #1 of this topic, it might help you to understand the process:

 

how-psychiatric-drugs-remodel-your-brain

 

I did cold turkey before, is my brain damaged and not recovery because i did not reduce the doses carefully?

 

Please help me i need advice, i am shakinh cannot read anymore. 

 

Should i up the doses of olanzapine to 5mg from 0.3 mg tonight to replace clozapine? 

[Hsph]

15 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

The recovery happens as you reduce your drugs carefully, but it also continues after you have stopped the drugs.

 

Please see Post #1 of this topic, it might help you to understand the process:

 

how-psychiatric-drugs-remodel-your-brain

 

I have read this few days ago. I understand

[ChessieCat]

6 minutes ago, Hsph said:

this is my crucial moment please help, 

 

You have a decision to make.  We understand that it can be difficult to know what to do and who to listen to but what you have been doing/taking up until now is not working for you.

 

I have given you a lot of information about SA and other drug related things to try to help you understand that even though the staff at SA are not medical professionals the information and knowledge here can help members get off their drugs.  SA was started in 2011 and there are many members that have been successfully helped by it.

 

With what you now know about the drugs, whose suggestions are you going to follow?

 

You need decide whether you are going to continue listening to your parents and/or doctor or the suggestions we provide.

 

SA can try to assist you but if you keep changing your mind and your drugs/doses and doing what your parents/doctor says then we won't be able to help you.

 

5 minutes ago, Hsph said:

please advise on kindling effect if i usually took 0.3 mg olanzapine in the afternoon , and now i suddenly took 5 mg olanzapine in the night to replace clozapine, what will happen? 

 

3 minutes ago, Hsph said:

Should i up the doses of olanzapine to 5mg from 0.3 mg tonight to replace clozapine? 

 

You will need to wait for a response from Shep or one of the other moderators who has more knowledge than I do about these drugs. 

 

Shep has already given you some advice about your drugs.  I suggest that you go back through the responses that have been made already. 

 

I'm not sure if this link has been given already so I will put it here for you.  You need to try and stay as calm as possible and be patient.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

[Hsph]

Thanks a lot

Shep suggest me to stop clozapine and replace it by olanzapine which what i wanna do today. I will use 5 mg of olanzapine to sleep. Hope it will works. And stabilize me in the next 3. Months

 

It was me who are too weak cannot stand and indecisive. Now i will take no matter what to stop clozapine. It gives me some skin trouble.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[Hsph]

Shep / other lovely mods, i am now consuming 0.3mg olanzapine and not feeling sleepy, just fatigue,

 

due to kindling effect please advise how much i should take olanzapine tonight? 

5mg? 2.5mg? 

[ChessieCat]

9 minutes ago, Hsph said:

i am now consuming 0.3mg olanzapine

 

15 September to 01 october 2020 Remital(olanzapine 5 mg)

01 October to 12 october 2020 i consumed Remital(Olanzapine 5 mg) in the morning

12 October 2020 i QUIT COLD TURKEY Remital(Olanzapine 5 mg)

Morning : since 27 oct 2020 Reinstating on Olanzapine (27 oct 0.5mg) (28 oct 0.3mg) (29 oct 0.3mg)

 

 

Q:  What doses of olanzapine have you taken since 29th October?

 

 

Q:  Have you been taking any ashwagandha since you joined SA (ie 22nd October)?

 

If yes, when did you take it?

 

 

 

 

[Hsph]

9 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

:  What doses of olanzapine have you taken since 29th October?

5 mg

 

9 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you been taking any ashwagandha since you joined SA (ie 22nd October)?

I took it and stop one week ago. I just took it around 1 week. Not much different

[Hsph]

Im panicked again. I thinking very often to took my own life. I cant live like this

 

Please help. Everything seems no way out. 

 

Can my sleep be normal again? 

 

I feel much much much better before i was going to psychiatrist.

 

My father thinking just like doctor... I am sad. 

[ChessieCat]

1 minute ago, Hsph said:

 

11 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you been taking any ashwagandha since you joined SA (ie 22nd October)?

I took it and stop one week ago. I just took it around 1 week. Not much different

 

I suggest that you do not take it again.  It will just confuse things.

 

2 minutes ago, Hsph said:

12 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

:  What doses of olanzapine have you taken since 29th October?

5 mg

 

 

Was it 5mg or 0.5mg?

 

Do you have Excel and do you know how to use it?

 

It might be helpful if you can create an Excel spreadsheet showing the date down the left and the different drugs (including ashwagandha) across the top and fill in the dose you took each day for each drug.  Like this:

 

                         mirt       depakote    olanzapine     clozapine   ashwaganda

 

15 Sept           xxmg     xxmg                xxmg              xxmg          xxmg

16                    xxmg     xxmg                xxmg              xxmg          xxmg        

17

(etc)

1 Oct

2

3

(etc)

1 Nov

2

(etc)

[Hsph]

I can, maybe i will do that when i calmed down

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[ChessieCat]

1 minute ago, Hsph said:

Im panicked again. I thinking very often to took my own life. I cant live like this

 

Please help. Everything seems no way out. 

 

We understand how difficult and frightening this can be, but you need to try to calm yourself down.

 

It is going to take a bit of time to get things sorted out.

 

When we start to panic we add more symptoms, feelings in our body, because of the anxiety.  Look at this labelled diagram which explains this:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/anxiety.htm

 

Please listen to these:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Female voice - getselfhelp.co.uk
 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes) Male voice - getselfhelp.co.uk

 

And these might help too:

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

[ChessieCat]

9 minutes ago, Hsph said:

Im panicked again. I thinking very often to took my own life. I cant live like this

 

Please help. Everything seems no way out. 

 

I am sorry that things seem so bad but we are only an Internet discussion forum.

 

For those who are feeling desperate or suicidal 

 

You might find it helpful to ring a hotline and talk to them.  Please understand that if you go to a doctor/hospital that they will most probably give you drugs.

 

Here's what I found available in your country:

 

https://www.opencounseling.com/hotlines-id

[Hsph]

38 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Here's what I found available in your country:

 

https://www.opencounseling.com/hotlines-id

Not working wrong number

[Hsph]

I am more relaxed now. 

 

Lovely mods please suggest me how much i should intake olanzapine tonight to replace clozapine 2.5mg ? 

My current olanzapine intake is 0.3mg

Should i take 2.5mg olanzapine? Is that too much?

Since olanzapine minimum dose is 2.5mg. and clozapine min dose is 12.5mg. which i only take 20 percent clozapine min dose. 

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, Hsph said:

Not working wrong number

 

They were the only ones that I could find.  If you find any suicide hotline numbers for your country could you please let us know so that we can add them to the topic that I linked.  Thank you.

 

EDITED to add:

 

Q: Does this one work?

 

Indonesia

Kementerian Kesehatan

Kementerian Kesehatan offers 24-hour service to people in Indonesia who are in distress, in
crisis, or at risk of suicide.
Tel: 500-454

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Hsph]

55 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

They were the only ones that I could find.  If you find any suicide hotline numbers for your country could you please let us know so that we can add them to the topic that I linked.  Thank you.

 

EDITED to add:

 

Q: Does this one work?

 

Indonesia

Kementerian Kesehatan

Kementerian Kesehatan offers 24-hour service to people in Indonesia who are in distress, in
crisis, or at risk of suicide.
Tel: 500-454

 

I am at peace now, i wish i wouldn't need to call the number again. I practice meditation. I will stay offline as long as i could. Online makes me anxious. It triggers a lot of things. 

 

That number is health government number. Btw.

[ChessieCat]

 

24 minutes ago, Hsph said:

I practice meditation. I will stay offline as long as i could. Online makes me anxious. It triggers a lot of things. 

 

That's a very good idea.

[Hsph]

Dear all lovely Mods please if you have time to help / advise me , Im going to consume vasayo sleep micromyst. Pleade advise is it safe or not to consume together with Olanzapine 0.3mg ? 

 

Ingredients:

Vit B2 1mg

 

Vit B6 1mg

 

Sleep proprietary blend 70mg :

 - GABA (gamma aminobutryic acid)

- N-acetyl Cysteine

- melatonin

 

Liposome proprietary blend 50mg :

-Phosphatidylcholine

-Palmitic acid

-oleic acid complex (from non-GMO sunflower oil)