Deano: reinstating Celexa after 7 weeks

[Deano]

reinstating Celexa after 7 weeks(3 days good, now not doing well at all)

 

Hi. I am a 50 year old male who began taking antidepressants for depression and anxiety 20 years ago. From 2000 to about 2005 I was given paxil(I lasted 2 days, pure poison), zoloft and effexor xr...but I never really took them regularly. There were no issues stopping since I took them intermittently and not for very long, I also had no idea back then that they were so toxic and damaging ...until around 2006 when I was put on 20mg of celexa, which I remained on until trying to get off in 2019.  Honestly, it didn't do anything good or bad. I now wish they had just given me a sugar pill. A  few years before this I became aware of Dr. Breggin and others, and began researching the dangers of ssri's and other drugs. The thought of the possibility of permanent brain damage and incurable tardive dyskinisia to name only a few bad outcomes, terrified me.

 

I also found this forum which I have lurked on for a long time, but clearly, did not study enough as I have made many mistakes in trying to taper way too fast.  During one of my first encounters with withdrawal I ran to my doctor in a manic state of anxiety and abject panic, who appeared baffled. He asked why I was doing this and I told him I didn't like being on the meds anymore. He shrugged his shoulders and said "you should be able to just quit. Celexa is such a mild drug. I've never heard of anyone having a problem. You must be very sensitive." I of course knew I was being lied to. He was either that stupid or just a shill for pharma poison pushers. He also tried to convince me that I was bi polar and prescribed depakote for my "mania". I rejected it as I had the year before when he tried the same thing due to really bad work related anxiety.

 

In January of 2020 I was in a bad state. I was still on celexa(10mg by this time) I went to a therapist in desperation, who reiterated the lie of "chemical imbalances" when the subject of my stance on psych meds was brought up. Being that the office was in a hospital, she talked me into going to the ER with her. I was not suicidal but admitted that I thought about dying a lot...but had no plans. Fast forward six humiliating hours on an ER gurney fielding questions from smirking, condescending "doctors" and "mental health professionals". Another blow to my confidence in seeking help from the medical community.

 

Foolishly, I went back to this therapist a few weeks later. Again drugs came up. She coerced me into seeing the nurse practitioner/resident pill pusher. I did. She puts me on Wellbutrin(don't know the dose as I didn't stay on it and threw the bottle out) and she tells me to just quit celexa. "Shouldn't be a problem" she said. My reaction to wellbutrin was adverse and immediate. I felt drugged/roofied/drunk also really irritable. And as the days went on (9 of them) I am also unknowingly(but highly suspecting) in celexa withdrawal too. I came back for the followup and she was as baffled as my PCP. "You shouldn't have had that reaction!" As she's furiously turning pages in her pharma poison catalogue of horrors. "I don't think you were in withdrawal from the celexa...that just doesn't happen." I live in a relatively small town but surely these people must know that this can and does happen to a far too wide percentage of the population. It's criminal not to know. I am convinced these people are evil. Anyways, she tried to polydrug me after that, even though I'm clearly in withdrawal and she notes my inability to even stand or get up without her assistance, in addition to what are probably overlapping symptoms of wellbutrin poisoning. Her response is to dump THREE more drugs on me! One was remeron , the other lamictal, and the third I have no idea because at that point I'm not even listening to this lady any more and I'm vowing in my mind to never come back!

 

What prompts me to join though is my current crisis. After many foolish attempts(I should have studied the forum more) to stop celexa, I finally did on September 13 after a 5 month taper. I thought I had finally done it! In retrospect there were signs back in october and november but were masked by an almost 4 month bout of sciatica which distracted me. I began feeling nervous Monday December 7th 2020. Took longer than normal to get to sleep but no big deal. I woke up fine on Tuesday. Around 3 p.m. I started feeling really weird. High anxiety and feeling jittery/restless. By 5 p.m. this jittery almost electrical current was kind of in my groin radiating down into my right leg. I also feel cortisol shooting through my body like a fire hose, I'm sweating and I'm panicking. I deduce that I must have "restless leg syndrome". And I must have it because this is happening in the same leg as the sciatica(which is gone now). I have no idea at this time and in this state of mind that I am in withdrawal from celexa.

 

Tuesday night was a night of hell as I was up all night, pacing, panicking, panicking that I'm panicking thus inducing more panic, I shower, I walk and march in place, I even go outside and walk briskly at about 3:30 a.m. After 4 hours of "sleep" I woke up, but intense anxiety gripped me...and the "restless leg" is back soon after, only it's not RLS, I am experiencing akathisia, and then I realize I am in celexa withdrawal 7 weeks after stopping.

 

So Wednesday December 9th, frightened, I took 20mg of celexa around 2;20 p.m. Relief came as expected within 4 hours and within 6 to 8 hours I felt as "ok" as possible. I now know though, that I potentially made a huge mistake reinstating at 20mg, because I now know that as the forum recommends, you should reinstate with only the smallest possible dose after such a long period of cessation. Further, I may have made an error by deciding to just stay at 20mg, which I did for Thursday, Friday and Saturday as well.

 

Problem is, I felt good Thursday and Friday, but Saturday night I became a little jittery, nervous, etc. I had insomnia. The akathisia feeling I had in my leg is slightly there, which is causing me to panic and stress thinking it might come back..bringing me to today in which I awoke and soon experienced the most intense anxiety and panic that I've ever felt, my mind spiraling and catastrophizing, elevated heart rate, literally the feeling of going completely out of my mind.

 

I have not taken celexa today, because I am scared I will choose the wrong dose. Stay the course of 20mg, go down to 10, 5, 2.5??? I can only create this account and write this post because I took 4 grams of kratom(which I do not recommend or endorse, as it is different for everyone) this afternoon which has calmed me to the point of at least being able to focus on writing this...which is probably helping as well(not to mention the act of reaching out)

 

I am really terrified that reinstatement at any dose may no longer be possible, and I am at such a loss as to what I should do.

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Deano]

It's 10:15 Sunday night and my anxiety is really skyrocketing. I hate what I have done to myself. Seeing how fast my tapers were now that I can see my stupid history in black and white and the poor decisions I made before getting better informed...I would never have even attempted this...I just want to stabilize. The cortisol/adrenaline spike I'm constantly feeling is scaring me...I don't know what I'm going to do...

[Deano]

Long night. I took 6mg of melatonin around 11...able to calm down for a few hours, started feeling anxiety again. Took 50mg of hydroxyzine given to me as a sleep aid by the nurse practitioner who put me on wellbutrin. It's not in my signature because after the wellbutrin debacle I never took that or anything she prescribed again. This did work but not as good as the melatonin. I was able to stay in the bed most of the night 3;30 am to 8:00am. I did get extremely hot feeling all over my body. I got up to put an ice pack on my forehead for a while. I didn't get much sleep...every time I closed my eyes I was hallucinating.

 

10:20a.m. as I type this. While I still feel a little nervous and jittery I am not shaking and panicking like I was yesterday and last night. I did not take celexa yesterday.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Deano,

And welcome....And oh no, one has to be really careful, with what they put into their bodies, when in the sensitive state of WD(withdrawal).

Did I see Kratom was tried?  It looks like we have a topic on it:  Beware of Kratom and then a nice post from another moderator in that topic, here.

It sounds like that was a one time thing.  And do try and go easy on yourself criticism now too.

We'll do our best to help you now, get a good tapering and coping plan going now.

 

And it sounds like you have been lurking a bit before joining.  I'm going to go ahead and give you a few of the most basic links to information here now.  And then try and get started on some more of your immediate concerns.

 

Why taper by by 10% of my dosage?

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

Dr Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom list

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system.   Just one new thing or change at a time though.  And so, just try one or the other, start with a low dose, and then observe, or even note take, while making no other changes.

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

And okay Deano, I'm going to page 2, to reply to some of your more immediate concerns, on dosing now.  You can have this page for reference now, with some of the basics.

 

This is your introduction page and now you have introduced yourself to the community.  This is a good place to post questions around your specifics, and give updates, as well as to interact with the other members for support and encouragement once you get settled in.

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hey Deano, okay some questions for you too?

 

Any WD(withdrawal symptoms) prior to December 8th that you were aware of?

Any other substances, medications, etc. prior to the intense WD that you described?

Have you been on medications for the sciatica?

And if so, what?

Any other medications that you are presently regularly taking? 

You've mentioned hydroxyzine used recently.

And melatonin.

 

What time were you taking the 4 days of Celexa at 20 mg at?

 

I am glad your last post noted improvement, no panic and shaking.

 

You should take a read through this link, before most of the others I gave you:

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

and maybe you have seen this already too, but this is going to answer a lot of your questions

 

And then, at this point in time, I think I would rather err on the side of harm reduction, in recommending a reinstatement dose.  You've been off the Celexa for more than 3 months time.

By the way, we never recommend alternating dosages.  Or alternating days of dosages.  It's confusing for your nervous system.  And makes it very hard to establish steady states of your drug as well.

I think I would, if it was me,  go with a 2 mg dose next, and then stick with it, taken at the same time of day.

 

 

Meanwhile do observations as well, if you can write down some notes for yourself, as to how you do each day, and any other substances uses, how you are eating, sleeping, etc.  And then keep us updated.

Obviously, I think it goes without saying, but it's best right now to avoid any other psychotropic substances.

 

What's helpful for us to see, is a daily time line of sorts, with the time on the left, and then on the right definitely note any meds/drugs by name and dose, and also on the right symptoms as they occur throughout the day.  Keep noting a time on the left, and go through the day noting symptoms, sleep, any supplements, etc. on the right.

 

This will come in handy as well:  Tips for tapering off Celexa(citalopram)

You'll see how you can get the smaller doses, needed for a proper taper and for reinstatements, and what is available in liquid pharmacy preparations as well.

 

You may do better with less melatonin, we often have members try a just 0.5 mg doses, and sometimes less.  I'm glad that whopper dose did result in sleep for you though, as sleep is essential in healing the nervous system.  You might try just 1 mg, if you use the melatonin again.

Melatonin for sleep

 

Welcome again Deano.  I don't think I got to respond to everything, and I don't expect you to read everything right away either.  Hoping to hear that you are still doing okay, or at least improved from the real scary symptoms.

 

Best.  L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

[Deano]

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply, manymoretodays. Thanks also for the wealth of information. Even though with a little looking you can find it on your own, it's so overwhelming(particularly trying to play catch up in a time of crisis) thank you for tailoring it to fit my personal situation. I might not get to all of your points and questions in this post.

 

I want to provide a status update though. I wish that my intro post wasn't in moderation for so long because today I decided(against everything I know) to go to my doctor. This is only the second time this doctor has seen me. I started going to him after the one in my intro thread who said celexa was a mild drug refused to refer me to specialists or pt for my spinal issues. I was kind of careful about how I was going to broach the subject of withdrawal, because it's a wasted argument. I did read the thread about dealing with doctors, and made notes accordingly.

 

I needn't have bothered. He basically "bull dozed" me and ripped me to shreds for coming to him asking for advice and meds that he didn't prescribe. When I saw him in October I was off of celexa, but it was still on my chart in the network. He referred me to the same nurse practitioner(my healthcare is run by a monopoly conglomerate where I live) who tried to poly-drug me in February. I declined the referral.  Only today did I learn it wasn't an offer but a command. I now must go to her for drugs within 2 months before I see  him or I "will be discharged from this office!" He is essentially angry that I didn't take and don't take a lot of the drugs I'm prescribed. It irks him that I quit celexa though he didn't have anything to do with it.

 

He dismissed what I told him about my situation. "That's not even possible!" He conflated my withdrawal with my adverse reaction, saying "you couldn't be in withdrawal after only being on celexa 4 days!" He does not believe that after taking the drug so many years that a stoppage of any length would make me adverse. Also said that my hyper anxiety state was a part of my "condition".

 

Anyways he gave me a script for 10mg citalopram. And because my family is now involved and really just does not understand what I try to tell them, I took 10mg tonight at 7:00p.m. It's 11:50pm as I type this line  and I feel o.k. Better than I did before I took it and certainly no worse at least. I am keeping a notebook here recording about hourly how I'm doing. Even we who know better can get gas lit by society/friends/family/etc. and bow to the authority of the white coat. 

 

I'm going to take your advice and not beat myself up about this. I can only make the decisions I can in this state of mind.

[ChessieCat]

3 minutes ago, Deano said:

And because my family is now involved and really just does not understand what I try to tell them

 

helping-family-understand

 

[Deano]

Noted about the melatonin. I have taken 3mg nightly for many years. I doubled up in desperation.

 

Symptoms prior to December 8th. In retrospect there were. I was more emotional and irritable. I got blindsided by life during and after my quitting, and I figured these life events were the real reason. And maybe so, but I also felt the first stirrings of that akythisia feeling about a half dozen nights throughout october and november. Intermittent insomnia a few times a week. but my sciatica problem masked a lot of this.

 

Important to note also regarding other prescriptions: I was prescribed gabapentin for pain by a neurosurgeon. 30 300mg capsules. Once nightly. I only took them for 15 days. Began on November 3rd 2020. Final one was on Nov. 17. They did nothing for my pain and I was improving from pt so I felt it best to stop. Now I'm seeing gabapentin even short term use can have withdrawal effect.  The neurosurgeon also prescribed 30  10mg tabs of cyclobenzaprine for muscle cramps. I have 20 of the 30 still, so I didn't take them much. They affected my ability to urinate.

 

I also have been taking fish oil for a long time. As well as Vitamin D3 due to deficiency.

 

I have taken kratom situationaly(fatigue or pain) over the past two years. The one night mentioned is the only time I've taken it during this episode.

I did also take magnesium for a few years for other supposed benefits but dropped it as all of this can get expensive. I see it mentioned a lot here. I will maybe get some tomorrow.

 

I haven't used THC/CBD?Hemp/etc or other substances.

[Deano]

Thank you, ChessieCat. I'll read and heed...but it's an uphill battle.

[Deano]

3:50am: Woke up after 3 feeling extremely hot, not exactly sweaty. The nervous.rapid heart beat feeling of the past couple days is largely gone...but I don't like the way this new symptom feels. Feels numb/tingly in my right foot. I am so discouraged right now...

[Deano]

11:41 a.m. I have been up(like I ever really went to sleep) since about 8 a.m. The two occasions I was able to fall asleep were disrupted by these waves of total body heat, clammy more than sweaty and my hands were completely numb, though this stopped as soon as I came to. I know I was catastrophising in my previous post, I guess I was expecting a milder version of the anxiety/cortisol/rapid heartbeat. This new thing threw me. I feel largely o.k. at the moment. No anxiety(other than what I generate myself with negative self talk, working on that!) I feel run down though with a headache. Definitely insomnia and sleep depravation playing a role.

 

For a couple of nights I have been experiencing a weird thing. When I close my eyes I have what I can only describe as "hallucinatory fever dreams" sometimes with indistinguishable noise like roaring and people yelling,,,but only when I close my eyes. I open my eyes and it's gone. Anyone experience such a thing?

[Jennings]

Hey Dean,

 

When my withdrawal first started about a month ago I was having the same issue when closing my eyes.  It was like my brain couldn't slow down and was spitting out random things.  Absolutely terrible.  The same thing happened when I had an adverse reaction to Effexor and when I last tried to get off my med three years ago.

 

I also wake up to intense anxiety anytime between 1 and 3 am.  Another symptom I have is jolting awake when I drift off.  Not fun.

[Deano]

Thanks, Jennings. I had that jolting thing too last night. I am really not looking forward to tonight.