Momiki: tapering off paroxetine. Muscle stiffness is no fun.

[Mamgu]

It's not fair, you're right!  But I'm of the mind that if I can do these things then I will, it's all about living a life and making memories.  I don't want to take time out of life for the years I'm coming off Citalopram. But there may be a cost and if this latest wave hits back later today or tomorrow or next week, I'll have great memories with my son to keep me going 😎 

 

I hope you are able to immerse yourself in your canoe trip experience for the same reasons 😃

x

[Momiki]

You are absolutely right, Mamgu. I also don't want to put my life on hold anymore.

 

I came back from the canoe trip today, and it went very well! I had anticipated getting migraine-like problems at the end of the outward and return journey, due to how tiring travel can be, but that hardly happened. I went to bed a bit earlier than the rest of the group on the first night, because of mild symptoms, but those resolved without meds the next day. No problems during the rest of the trip that kept me from participating! I did feel emotionally flat at some times, particularly at the beginning of the week. It got better later on. I also wished I was able to connect to others better, but that could just be an introvert-thing. Something to work on. Brain fog is still around, but I just had to follow the leaders of the group during the trip, not much decision making on my part. Having trouble formulating some thoughts now, though. 😛 So just a question: Does anyone have any tips regarding the connecting-to-others thing?

[Mamgu]

Yey, great to hear you enjoyed your trip and managed to keep your energies up and migraines away 🙂

 

Not sure I can help with the connection thing, I'm working with my counsellor to combat social anxiety and it's very challenging for me 🤣.  The principals are to expose yourself to the situations that make you feel uncomfortable or anxious.  Slowly and gently but to do it anyway.  My counsellor mentioned the cause of my anxiety being the sense of feeling judged, this resonated with me so that helps me to understand why I hate social gatherings, I tend to hang about at the periphery looking as unapproachable as I can muster (whilst feeling I'm a nice empathetic human and want to spread joy and love to all.....mixed messages or what 🤣).  Another tip she gave was to deflect the questions away, e.g. if someone is interested in talking and asks about you, answer the question and quickly as is polite, turn the same questions on them. This sounds like good advice to me, although I'm yet to put it in practice, given my isolation + social anxiety = few opportunities to practice.  Hope I've understood your question correctly, and if so, that helped a little.  If nothing else, you may find opening up a little, and asking others about themselves you may find connections and a less lonely xx

[Fifree]

20 hours ago, Momiki said:

it went very well

Glad to hear it went well Momiki. good for you for taking a chance on yourself. It's great when it pays off.

 

20 hours ago, Momiki said:

Does anyone have any tips regarding the connecting-to-others thing?

I've had struggles in this department too during my life. The thing that I've found most useful in more recent years is to get out of my head and into the moment. Social anxiety used to have me so worried about what I should say or do, or what someone else was thinking, that I was unable to be present or real in the moment. Self-fulfilling prophecy - I'd be all up in my head worrying about things and of course then I would be distant and wasn't interacting like a normal person. It's been a real battle but if I find myself overthinking in a social situation, including work meetings etc, I just wrench myself out of it and concentrate all my attention on what is actually going on in the moment - whether I'm enjoying the day canoeing, in a procedural meeting or having a conversation with a friend. This may all be completely irrelevant to your situation, but it's something that has helped me me. If I force myself to be present I don't have time to be anxious, I'm a better listener AND I get more out of the experience, whatever it is. Even if I don't connect to anyone, I will have enjoyed my day canoeing because I was present for it instead of spending the day worrying about what everyone was thinking. 

[Momiki]

Thanks for the tips, Mamgu and Fifree.

 

I can very much relate to the feeling of being judged. I've been called weird in the past because of my interest in everything non-standard (soccer and the latest shows on actual television are such a bore... And I've never understood the fun of getting drunk in a bar), and this has led me to not share my interests and opinions in the past. I've gotten much better at this, and I'm fine with the first few encounters (asking the "what about you" question can work really well, if the other person isn't a not-that-talkative introvert as well :P), but I have trouble starting or carrying conversations once you've shared a bit already. I guess that's when the old "I have to be extraverted" idea kicks in and I'm indeed not really in the moment anymore. I start avoiding people at that point. That way I don't have to deal with the racking my brain to come up with something to say, and my mind just staying blank. I guess I should just let those silences happen. I've had 2 people in the past tell me they liked talking to me, because they didn't have the feeling they had to fill up silences, so I guess to some people it's a good thing.

[Mamgu]

I've always found those 'comfortable silences' between people to be the moments where true connections happen.  That's when I know I'm with a kindred spirit.  Seems like you're finding some kindred spirits Momiki 🙂

 

I feel the same as you about not being interested in the mainstream things, this often singles me out in a group of people and when the chit-chat happens I'm definitely excluded. This used to bother me but these days I'm more at peace with my sense-of-otherness.  I find it exhausting to engage in those conversations where others talk about stuff that holds no interest for me.  We have twice-weekly work meetings and on the Friday meetings each of us is expected to talk about successes and frustrations we've faced in the week.  I find this boring enough but then we're asked if we have anything nice going on at the weekend.  This makes me cross because I don't want to share this with colleagues.  I raised how uncomfortable this makes me feel and now I'm not asked about my plans for the weekend.  That's a success for me 😂 but then I have to listen to what everyone else is doing which I find tedious.  Frankly, I'd rather be doing work than listen to that!

 

I think when we make ourselves be who we're not, i.e. making ourselves act extroverted when it's not who we truly are, is exhausting and probably feeds the social anxiety.  Perhaps the key is to be at peace with making the small connections and embrace our 'sense-of-otherness'.  Then when we do make connections know they are meaningful and founded in honesty?

 

x

 

 

[Fifree]

On 8/5/2023 at 6:20 PM, Mamgu said:

This makes me cross because I don't want to share this with colleagues.  I raised how uncomfortable this makes me feel and now I'm not asked about my plans for the weekend.  That's a success for me 😂 but then I have to listen to what everyone else is doing which I find tedious.  Frankly, I'd rather be doing work than listen to that!

This is just tooo much. Because people do judge. If my idea of a good time is sitting on the sofa with a bag of chips watching reruns of Black Books, I don't want it to be held up for inspection alongside people who are popping over to another country for the weekend to climb a mountain or having an intimate party with 200 of their closest friends. I mean whatever floats your boat, but when I was working, the thing I liked most about weekends was not having to be at work and masking my ADHD, anxiety etc. 

[Momiki]

I enjoyed the rest of my days off work. It was a bit more stressful than when I was abroad (I was some putting pressure on myself that I had to do memorable things during the rest of my time off as well, because I also felt I had to share my holiday time-spending with colleagues afterwards... Totally relate to the feeling you had, Mamgu), but it was enjoyable nonetheless. I got back into crafting (sewing and knitting) and loved the feeling of doing something creative again. 

 

Getting back to work was less enjoyable. Right off the bat, the first afternoon, I got WD symptoms (problems with neck muscles, leading to headache and nausea). Brain fog joined the party later on. On the second day I had to let my colleagues know I couldn't make it to the office. It felt like such a bummer, I had 3 weeks of rest and should be recharged. Instead I felt incapable of working properly right away. I called the occupational physician, hoping they could help get my head straight and make decisions.

 

It took 4 days for my muscles to get back to normal. During those days my rate of being able to work increased somewhat everyday. I realized that I was in the birth control stop week, which I had skipped the month before due to not wanting my period while being abroad. In addition, a colleague told me she also had some trouble getting back to work after the holidays. So it seemed like things weren't in crisis after all. I also realized that my level of brain fog seemed to ever so slowly be getting better. Before my holiday solving programming errors seemed like a mountain to climb. Those were down to perhaps a hill. 

 

I still had problems with painful muscles in the second week, but my mood was pretty good. I am losing quite some hair, but I also have a lot of hair, so no worries there. Preparing for appointment with the occupational physician (two weeks after I called) made me think about what exactly it was I wanted help with, which in turn led to some actions I carried out right away. I went to a physiotherapist (had been doubting about going for quite some time), to get advice about self-treatment) and came up with some other small steps (such as blocking my calendar the last hour on Tuesday, so I can go home earlier if working at the office continues to give me headaches). Felt good to be proactive.

 

The appointment with the occupational physician was a disappointment, though. We started with lots of less relevant ("How many hours do you work") and irrelevant ("Do you take the train to work") questions. Then he asked me what had led me to make an appointment. I had to talk slowly, because he couldn't type so fast, which led to an unnatural conversation. I managed to explain the back story, but my actual question for help kind of got lost. He acknowledged the difficulty of stopping ADs, so that was good, but he was also talking about referring to a psychiatrist or doctor to prevent relapse (that set of alarm bells in my head). I told him I don't need help reducing my meds, I wanted help regarding putting the bar too high at work, and feeling a sense of obligation to my colleagues. His recommendations on that front was "talk to your supervisor to discuss what accommodations can be made" (already did...) and "start a coaching trajectory" (is that proper English?).

 

Perhaps a coach wouldn't be a bad idea, but hmm.. I'm picky when it comes to coaches and psychologists. I would want someone who understands the troubles of coming off ADs without having the authoritative attitude that doctors often seem to have. I also hope I haven't opened Pandora's Box at work, having to accept help and being forced to things that aren't actually helpful.

 

 

 

[Momiki]

Today was the first day-at-the-office in a looong time that didn't lead to a headache. Woohoo! Hopefully this will be the first of many. I've massaged a larger part of my neck than usual (including the scalenes/lower front part of my neck) and also included stretching, as per advice from the physiotherapist. I'm hoping that did the trick. I also had less brain fog today.

 

I also forgot to add something in my previous post: I switched from an irregular pattern of taking magnesium citrate, to a daily dose of magnesium bisglycinate, on August 21. That's one week after getting back to work. This switch can't account for improvements in all departments (my mood was already quite good before the switch and I had already noticed an improvement in WD normal brain fog levels), but it could have been beneficial in the muscle department.

 

I'm glad to finally see some improvements, after weeks of seeming to be stuck at the same level of blah.

[Mamgu]

Hurrah for mountains being eroded to hills!  But it sounds as though you've been on a roller coaster of late, sorry to hear about this.  The Occupational Physician appointment sounds dreadful, I can understand you feeling disappointed with it.  I'm not sure how things work in The Netherlands as I'm unaware of the employment law there, but in the UK we have a concept called 'reasonable adjustments' where a company will consider making adjustments for people with medical conditions, these could include reducing contractual hours, changing work location, flexible/agile working, factoring in more frequent breaks....... the 'reasonable' element being if the company can accommodate it from a business perspective.  Is this something you could do where you work, maybe think of creative ways of working?  I always think these conversations are reliant on a healthy relationship with a manager, I've had roles before where I would be too scared to raise it in the first place, but others where my manager was understanding.  I supose you need to understand the culture of the organisation where you work?

 

Regarding muscle aches, I know we talked about magnesium sprays before but I've stumbled across a magnesium gel (it's the same brand as the spray I used, 'Better You' BetterYou Magnesium Body Gel - Joints & Muscles — MySupplementShop but I do find it much more effective and less 'tacky'.  Might be worth checking out?

xx

 

 

[Mamgu]

10 minutes ago, Momiki said:

Today was the first day-at-the-office in a looong time that didn't lead to a headache. Woohoo! Hopefully this will be the first of many.

 

YEY!  xx

[Momiki]

I'm not sure how it works exactly, but we also have the reasonable adjustments concept. Some of the adjustments to a limited extend: you won't forever be paid in full if you work less hours. If I were to reduce my hours now, I would be paid in full for the first 26 weeks, get 90% for the next 26 weeks, then 75%, then 70%. New agreements have been made recently, in the near future it will be 100% for the first year, then 70% for the second year. The employer has to find suitable work within the company itself, or help the employee get suitable work somewhere else.

 

I actually don't have a direct supervisor, the team I work in is self-steering. I only work at the office one day a week, but the team is okay with me occasionally working from home on that day as well. Taking frequent breaks is no problem when working from home, no one will even know. And we have flexible working hours, so I can easily work less hours in a day and make up those hours at a different time. The team knows I am less resilient at the moment, so they won't expect me to take on a lot of additional stuff. We also work pretty independently, so it's unlikely they'll throw a lot of work my way. I still get stuff done and none of my colleagues have complaints, so they are fine with how things are going. I was afraid I was reaching the point where things would become a problem, but that was apparently a shortlasting wave.

 

I hope to stay away from the official you-have-two-years-before-drastic-measures path for as long as possible. But I'm optimistic about that, now that I've finally noticed improvements again.

 

Thanks for the magnesium tip! I'm going to stick to the tablets for now, though. I no longer have to worry about food interactions (magnesium bisglycinate doesn't compete with the absorption of other minerals), so I won't have much problems making a habit of taking these. I don't have a good track record with regularly using creams.

[Mamgu]

Sounds as though you have a great working environment, lots of support, understanding colleagues and options to self soothe when needed 🙂  100% pay for 26 weeks is amazing, nothing like that in the UK that I'm aware of!!

 

I'm really chuffed to hear you're feeling better and noticing improvements.  Patience is the key and however long it takes, it's worth listening to our bodies rather than focussing on schedules.  

 

x

 

 

[jozeff]

Hi @Momiki,

 

Didn't visit this website for a while, I was too busy working and doing family stuff.

 

Hoe long do you plan staying on 1.2 mg you reckon? Do you feel stable and does it make a big difference compared to your slow taper?

 

 I'm doing a very slow taper myself and sometimes I hold for a while but it doesn't really make a difference.  Some days are ok but some are evil.

 

Hope you are doing very well!

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

[Momiki]

Hi Jozeff,

 

Welcome back! I hope things have settled down with your heart issues, you are enjoying your new job and your family is well.

 

I plan to stay on 1.2 mg until at least the end of November. That would be the one year holding mark. I'm waiting for the brain fog to reduce to such an extent that I don't feel hindered at work. When I resume tapering, I plan to take very very small steps. I was taking steps of 0.04 mg at a time (1 micro liter of liquid), but apparently those steps were still too big. A while back I bought a micro pipette with a smaller range, now I can take steps as small as 0.002 mg. I'm going for the third graph from the image below (taken from a scientific article by Horowitz & Taylor (2021)). It's probably going to take a long long time, but I prefer living a life without feeling crappy all the time.

 

 

 

Not sure if I would say I feel stable, but I'm feeling pretty good. I'm having a flare-up in some WD symptoms after resuming work following the holidays, but they are very manageable. No evil days for me, luckily. There is a big difference compared to continuing the slow taper, because while tapering symptoms were getting worse, whereas now they are getting better. With previous holds I felt improvements much sooner, after a few weeks. This is the first time improvements have taken months. But I've had several events this year that have likely upset my nervous system.

 

 

[Momiki]

After posting that my brain fog had improved last time, I had a short wave where it increased again. I was probably asking a bit too much of myself with activities and pressuring myself to get things done. Things got better when I slowed down. I don't feel 100% yet, but I'm not as hindered in doing my job than before.

 

Unfortunately the no headache after a day at the office was a one time thing. Subsequent headaches were much less in intensity, however. I also have less pain between my shoulders and in my back, the increased self-massage is really beneficial. I should probably focus a bit more on my neck, but I find it a tricky spot for self-massage. More effort, less immediate reward than the upper back.

 

I had an appointment at the hospital yesterday, after being referred by the GP. She initially thought I had lichen sclerosus and prescribed me steroid cream (clobetasol). At the follow up she wasn't sure about that diagnosis anymore (don't know why exactly). The hospital doctor also thinks it's lichen sclerosus, because of the fissures. I'm missing some of the other characteristics, though. I told her I would rather not take steroid cream, because of its possibility of leading to increased WD. She didn't think a topical cream would lead to that, but said I probably know best, as I'm the one experiencing it. She was okay with me first trying normal fatty cream, but said she will probably have to negotiate with me taking it in the future.

 

It has triggered some worries on several aspects. Lichen sclerosus doesn't have a cure, course of treatment is fatty cream daily and steroid cream about once or twice a week (after an initial 2 to 4 week of daily use). I'm not convinced I have lichen, as I don't match some important symptoms. I wonder if it could just be some weird withdrawal consequence (perhaps due to hormonal imbalances). I don't want to be stuck with something for life. On the other hand, lichen sclerosus leads to a (luckily small) increase in cancer risk. Don't want that. And I think I might have had some problems before I started this current tapering attempt. I guess the best course of action is use the normal cream, go to the follow-up appointment in six months, and see how things go from there. No need to worry about it now. It's taking the brain dust a bit longer to settle on that rational idea, though.

 

The other worry is about possible future use of steroid cream. I was planning to continue holding my current dose a bit more, but now I'm wondering whether I should attempt to reduce again. I don't want increased WD due to the cream. However, realistically, I also know that I won't be able to taper to 0 in 6 months and be stable at that time. Continuing to hold for another year doesn't sound appealing either (though I have considered it before this steroid thing came along). I also noticed recently I'm still flat emotion-wise (I drove for more than an hour to go to a specialized store, and couldn't find my debit card at checkout (And I haven't enabled paying by phone). The employee was awesome and wanted to ask the owner (his dad) if I could take the goods anyway and pay when I got home. I wasn't as shocked when I couldn't find my card and as elated when I eventually did find it as I would expect myself to feel). It would be nice for this whole AD withdrawal to be over...

 

For now I'm trying to tell myself that it's not a done deal that I'll be taking steroid cream in the future. I can also ask for a less potent cream than the one I used previously. And perhaps using it intermittently when I'm going on my very very gradual 0.002 mg at a time slide will not lead to many problems. I'm fine with most WD symptoms, as long as they are minor. I just can't use brain fog.

 

So I guess the mantra right now will be: "We'll get there when we'll get there". Though I still have to decide when to restart tapering...

 

[Soup]

@Momiki please be very careful with the steroid cream . My daughter in law used it and triggered a withdrawal from using it ( she took no other drugs ) just thought I would share so you could have more info to make your decision . 

[Momiki]

Thanks, Soup. What kind of withdrawal symptoms did your daughter in law have?

[Mamgu]

Hope the cream is working and you're getting some relief x

 

Have you given any more thought about picking up the tapering again?  I recall you mentioning you may wait until November as that'll be a full year and wonder how that feels now it's getting closer.  It's so difficult to know what the best thing to do is.....and when.

 

 

[Momiki]

Hey Mamgu

 

I've decided to keep holding. My brain fog has been improving, but I realized I still have other WD symptoms. I'm having a hard time relaxing, I'm often feeling restless. My head is also stuck in pitbull mode, I have a hard time letting go of an unpleasant situation at work (coworker not being fit for her position). I'm not worrying about the steroid cream anymore, though. The "We'll get there when we get there" has worked. But yeah, it's really difficult to know what to do and when. I hope I'm not prolonging feeling blunted for an unnecessary period of time.

 

 

[Mamgu]

Holding longer sounds like a really good idea, last thing you need is to un-do your healing so far!  So pleased you're experiencing less brain fog, it's easy to lose yourself when suffering from that.  I'm loving the clarity of thought I'm getting as my brain fog lifts.   I can even hold a conversation without 'ummming' and 'errrring' much 😂

 

 

[Momiki]

Today is my one-year anniversary of being at 1.2 mg! And I'm going to pretend that's cause for celebration, because life is more fun that way. :p.

 

Symptom-wise, on the positive side: brain fog has improved. I'm able to work at pretty much normal level most of the time. Occasionally I get a day where my thinking gets blocked, but well, we're all unproductive sometimes.

On the negative side: lots and lots of nausea lately, and problems with muscles in upper back, neck and head. I've found some exercises on YouTube that seemed to help, but then yesterday happened. I'm not writing off the exercises completely, but it seems I haven't found the complete solution yet.

 

Current plan: stick to 1.2 mg for the foreseeable future. I'm still waiting for that point where I'm feeling good enough to go out and do stuff without having to plan for feeling crappy afterwards. Or having to cancel beforehand.

[jozeff]

Hi Momiki ,

 

Well done! It takes a lot of courage to stay at a certain amount of medication because it's very tempting to decrease. Im almost certain you feel better than if you had been tapering. You will probably not feel 100 percent back to normal before tapering again but you did yourself a favor.

 

I decided to hold tapering citalopram a few times. I'm on 1.5 mg myself and I find it's way harder to decrease than at a higher dose. You could try a very slow taper like let's say 1.20 mg, 1.19, 1.18 etc. The advantage is that you might feel slightly better mentally because you are doing some tapering although very slowly.  I did a 0.01 mg decrease some weeks and I didn't notice any physical symptoms but still felt proud of myself.

Just some thoughts,  not actual advice;)

 

keep up the spirit and wish you all the best!

 

Cheers

 

jozef

[Mamgu]

Great to hear you're feeling improvements in some areas 🙂

 

Jozeff is right I think, holding takes courage as it is all too easy to try to get off the drug as soon as possible.  It's the not knowing that gets me, not knowing the best thing to do, to hold or taper?  But holding gives the body a break from the turmoil, this we do know.  

 

I don't know about you but I find this time of the year a little challenging generally, so holding the taper seems the right thing to do.

x

[Momiki]

Thanks, jozeff! I indeed plan on taking the tiniest steps possible when I resume tapering. That will be 0.05 microliter, which is 0.002 mg, if my math is correct. It will be a very smooth slide.

 

I agree, Mamgu, not knowing is hard. The drugs have side effects on their own, I don't know if I'm actually prolonging my discomfort unnecessarily. And yes, I also find this time of year challenging. Won't be sad once it has passed.

 

 

 

[jozeff]

Hi Momiki,

 

I'm not so sure about the 0.05 microliter. that is 50 nanoliter which is a very very tiny volume.

 

What solution are you using?

 

Cheers

jozef

[Momiki]

Yes, it is a very very tiny volume. I'm using micropipettes. I have them in 3 volume ranges: 10 - 100 μl (1 μl increments), 0.5 - 10 μl (0.1 μl increments) and 0.1 - 2.5 μl (0.05 μl increments). My solution is undiluted, 40 mg/ml.

 

 

[jozeff]

Ok, that sounds about right. I've been working as a chemist for 22 years and I didn't realize someone else would have these nice micropipettes as well;)

 

Good luck!

 

Cheers

Jozeff

[Momiki]

Micropipettes are awesome. So little hassle with measurements, just turn a knob. Nice to hear you are using them too! I've posted about them on this forum several times, but people seem more content with normal pipettes.

 

After 13 months and 2 days, I've resumed tapering! Well, nano-tapering. I'm going to reduce 1 microliter (0.04 mg) over a period of 20 days. That's 0.002 mg per day. I'm not particularly looking forward to it, I liked the certainty of not tapering. I probably won't notice much of this reduction, but there's still the "what if". I quite liked regaining my mental capacities, I don't want to go back to frequent brain fog (there's still occasional brain fog, but perhaps non-tapering folks have those days too sometimes).

 

However, I'm starting a new bottle of liquid and winter time doesn't have much social activities, so it seems like a good time to try out this small reduction. Perhaps things will go without a hitch and I'll be able to keep sliding. That could actually bring the finish line in sight in a 'short' time, 1.5 - 2 years. Haha, crazy that I consider that a short period nowadays. I've gotten used to "this will take years" and "Perhaps I'll just stay at a tiny dose indefinitely".

[Mamgu]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:40 PM, Momiki said:

After 13 months and 2 days, I've resumed tapering!

 

 

Brilliant, good luck with your nano-taper! I like the idea of taking tiny drops at a time 😍

[Momiki]

I'm 20 days into my nano-taper, and it's not bringing me what I hoped for. I was hoping that spreading out the 1 microliter drop over 20 days would be gentle enough that it wouldn't lead to withdrawal symptoms, but it does. I made it to 2/3 of what I was planning to drop. In the past week I've noticed loose stool, poorer sleep, emotional instability and decreased mental clarity. I've also had nausea and fatigue, but those were around before the start of this nano-taper as well, so I don't know to what extent those count. This morning I decided to updose a bit, and might do so again tomorrow, not sure yet. For me, aiming for a cumulative 3% drop appears to be too much at this point.

 

A list of all steps I did:

 

26-11-2022: 30 microliter (1.2 mg)

 

28 dec 2023: 29.95 microliter (1.198 mg)

29 dec 2023: 29.90 microliter (1.196 mg)

30 dec 2023: 29.85 microliter (1.194 mg)

31 dec 2023: 29.80 microliter (1.192 mg)

1 jan 2024: 29.75 microliter (1.190 mg)

2 jan 2024: 29.70 microliter (1.188 mg)

3 jan 2024: hold

4 jan 2024: 29.65 microliter (1.186 mg)

5 jan 2024: hold

6 jan 2024: 29.60 microliter (1.184 mg)

7 jan 2024: 29.55 microliter (1.182 mg)

8 jan 2024: hold

9 jan 2024: hold

10 jan 2024: 29.50 microliter (1.180 mg)

11 jan 2024: hold

12 jan 2024: 29.45 microliter (1.178 mg)

13 jan 2024: 29.40 microliter (1.176 mg)

14 jan 2024: 29.35 microliter (1.174 mg)

15 jan 2024: hold

16 jan 2024: hold

 

17 jan 2024: 29.45 microliter (1.178 mg) => updose

 

Looking at this list, taking into account that it is thought to take a week before plasma levels have dropped, I think I'll updose to 29.55 microliter (1.182 mg). From there, it's waiting to see how long withdrawal effects last, and then going slower in the future.

 

[Mamgu]

Oh no, sorry to hear this.  It's incredible that tiny dose drops have such a profound impact 😞. I think you're definitely doing the right thing and hope you're not too disheartened.

[Momiki]

Thanks, Mamgu. Your message lifted me up. It's nice that there are people out there who understand.

 

My emotional reaction to this setback has been quite detached. I'm annoyed, but there's also this feeling of it being out of my control how my body reacts and thus no point in being angry about it. And even some curiosity in finding out what the rate is that my body does tolerate. But still, I'll be glad when all of this is behind me. If I drop 0.002 mg per week, then it would take me 11.5 years to reach zero. I can't imagine it taking that long. That's longer than most people need in order to recover from going cold turkey. I suspect there's this tipping point, where SERT occupancy is low enough to not mess me up so much anymore. No clue where that point is, probably not at the 1 mg mark I hoped previously.

 

17 jan 2024: 29.45 microliter (1.178 mg) => updose

18 jan 2024: 29.60 microliter (1.184 mg) => updose

19 jan 2024: hold

20 jan 2024: 29.70 microliter (1.188 mg) => updose

21 jan 2024 and further: hold

 

Brain fog has improved since the first updose, thankfully. There is mostly nausea at the moment, together with fatigue and occasional restlessness. I'm thinking about waiting until at least mid-February, and proceed with one step (0.002 mg) a week for a while after that.

[Mamgu]

On 1/25/2024 at 8:10 PM, Momiki said:

I suspect there's this tipping point, where SERT occupancy is low enough to not mess me up so much anymore. No clue where that point is, probably not at the 1 mg mark I hoped previously.

 

I think this is the bit that eludes me as well, when will this get easier?  My experience is it's definitely getting more difficult at the lower doses but it's still do-able, so far at least.  I've taken your previous suggestion of smaller drops as the 10% approach isn't suitable, neither is the classic Brass Monkey.  There appears to be few of us Citalopram folks on here who need to take the tiny drops at a time.

 

Hope the nausea and fatigue are improving for you.  At least spring isn't so far off now - the snowdrops are out it style in these parts and things seem easier when spring comes round  😊.

[Chlo]

On 3/9/2023 at 12:59 PM, Momiki said:

Ha, exactly one month ago since my previous post.

 

The surgery went well. I was nervous about the full anesthesia (mostly the possibility of throwing up afterwards), the IV needle and stress leading to exacerbated muscle pain. The anesthesia went fine, no adverse response, the needle was put in my elbow crease rather than my hand (which was annoying, but at least there's more fat tissue there) and no muscles became rigid. I also experienced little post-op pain. The tissue that was removed and tested turned out to be benign, so no further treatment necessary! Unfortunately, though, the stomach protector they prescribed me for a 3-day course of painkillers was omeprazole. I was halfway through that course when I went online to check if it had interactions with citalopram, and was surprised to find it has major interactions:

 

 

 

 

I had been very clear each time I talked to a doctor about which medications I'm taking that I'm withdrawing from citalopram and that this gives me a lot of withdrawal symptoms, so I'm very annoyed (yet not surprised, I don't have much faith in medical practitioners anymore) they prescribed this. I was mostly worried about the anesthetics, I forgot about checking a stomach protector beforehand. I finished the 3-day course anyway, with the very recent memory on the havoc NSAID's wreck on your digestive system, hoping 3 days was short enough that it wouldn't disrupt my nervous system. Unfortunately, I do have ramped up withdrawal symptoms. They are mostly limited to fatigue, occasional lightheadedness, brain fog and other "trouble with thinking" symptoms (I regularly can't find a word when speaking). I'm quickly overstimulated and I need a lot of time to recover from it.

 

So, now's waiting for things to stabilize again. It's annoying, but this too shall pass.

 

@Momiki hello, would you mind telling me the anesthesia they used during your procedure. I will be having a procedure done in the near future and am concerned the anesthesia will amp up my wd. Trying to find an article or info on the site, also waiting for an admin to help with this information. Any help would be appreciated ❤️ Thank you, God bless!

[Wilsonnn]

@Momiki and I guess anyone else in this thread that has used a micropipette. What brand did you pick and why? Did you go through their manufacturers specs and look at the tolerances that they provide (how accurate/precise they are and their allowable deviations from that)?

 

I also wanted to know if anyone has used empty capsules to put the liquid in, as a delivery method (instead of taking it with a drink).

 

If I missed this info in the thread, I apologize!

 

Wilson