Lovingly: bad side effect withdrawal after stopped mirtazapine

[ryan1982]

On 2/4/2021 at 10:20 AM, Lovingly said:

@Gridley  what about CBD oil to help calm my nervous system instead? Any advice about that?

I'd be careful with CBD, @Lovingly . I've tried it and it has thrown me into some pretty serious waves. I'd probably avoid.

 

Keep it Slow, Keep it Stable, Keep it Simple.  

[ryan1982]

@Lovingly- my suggestion would be to order a Gemini-20 scale from Amazon with some empty pill capsules. Weigh 10 different uncut pills and take the average weight of the 10 as your starting point. Then take whatever that number is and divide it by the total milligrams to figure out how much 1 milligram weighs.  Then take that number and half it to figure out the weight of .5 mg.

 

Cutting pills this way literally saved my life. And to your earlier question, unless you have a bad reaction, you stay on the 0.5 mg until you feel like you've stabilized. It's not all terrible but it may take a very, very long time.  The worst thing you can do is to go and try a bunch of new stuff and make a bad situation worse.  Trust me, just look at my signature, I've lived it.

 

I'm here if you need me.

[Lovingly]

@ryan1982  mirtazapine doesn’t come in capsules. Only pill form. My only option is to go back on 3.75mg. I can’t get it any lower. I’m suicidal and need something. I just don’t know what to do. 

[ryan1982]

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. You can cut the pills using a pill cutter and then put them in empty gelatin capsules. 
 

Pill cutter:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001KYVO78/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_imm_t1_VXKE516KW84BSQ59XGGY?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
 

Gelatin capsules:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BI7Z364/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_DNJTM37Q3QSJKMEWD02M?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Gemini-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ESHDGOI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_823FXTPS3VTNPMPN39Y2

 

Don’t even let suicide cross your mind. You’ll get through this. And your family needs you too much. 
 

What dosage are your pills?

[ryan1982]

@Gridley and @manymoretodays- 

do y’all have concerns with a Remeron updose to 0.5 if she’s been off since last June? I’m a bit out of my depth. 

[Lovingly]

Hi everyone,

 

just a question I’m hoping others can answer. The sleep orgasms I’m having are happening between 4-6am. Could that be bc of an adrenaline surge? I can feel the panic feeling start in my abdomen and start to travel down. It wakes me up so I can stop it from happening. Any thoughts? I’m a complete mess bc the dr have told me I have pudendal neuralgia - but this all happened after abruptly stopping mirtazapine. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Lovingly,

Have you decided as far as doing a reinstatement or not?

And thank you @ryan1982for your help and support.

I agree with Gridley's initial recommend of 0.5 mg of mirtazapine for a reinstatement.

And then it looks like this has been outlined, how to do this as well:

I did a liquid for my last taper, and although I was feeling pretty cognitively impaired, I felt it to be the simpler of the options to just make my own. 

And then I managed to do the math, to know, how much liquid I needed to take to get the amount or dose strength that I needed.

You could make a 1 mg per 1 mL solution, and then take 0.5 mL to get a 0.5 mg dosage.

 

And yes, you are a ways out now from your last mirtazapine dose in August.  And it is totally up to you to decide, if you do want to try this option, after looking at all the information already provided.

 

9 hours ago, Lovingly said:

Hi everyone,

 

just a question I’m hoping others can answer. The sleep orgasms I’m having are happening between 4-6am. Could that be bc of an adrenaline surge? I can feel the panic feeling start in my abdomen and start to travel down. It wakes me up so I can stop it from happening. Any thoughts? I’m a complete mess bc the dr have told me I have pudendal neuralgia - but this all happened after abruptly stopping mirtazapine. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks 

 

Sounds like you might be having a cortisol awakening, as well as some neurological or nervous system dys function now.  The early morning cortisol wakes you up.  The sleep orgasms are probably not anything to be feared, on their own.......but the coritsol is then responsible for the fearfulness.  I mean that would be my take.  Are the orgasms painful?  I mean that would be really crummy.

 

And okay neuralgia by definition: 

Neuralgia is characterized by short, recurring pain in a part of the body or along a specific nerve. The sensation may feel like burning, stabbing or an electric shock. The condition is caused by damage to the peripheral nervous system, beyond the brain or spine, and so is also known as peripheral neuralgia.Feb 22, 2018

 

Peripheral Neuralgia Definition

www.neuromodulation.com › peripheral-neuralgia-definit...

 

What often happens with some of this neuro-dysregulation dys function though........and this should give you hope.........is that it slowly gets better.  In other words, the damage is not permanent, but a consequence of WD really.

 

I don't know if you've had a chance to look at some of the links that you were given initially, by Gridley.  I'll refer you back to that first one on "What is Withdrawal Syndrome?", as it might help your understanding of what is going on now.  And then you've had a few drug trials too, since you stopped the mirtazapine in August.  And so........basically it just takes time for the nervous system to re-establish it's normal homeostasis after both WD, and then the effects of other drugs on the nervous system functioning.

 

And oh so hard to just wait it out.

 

Are your biggest symptoms now the panic, cortisol awakening, and then sexual dysfunction?  You might be experiencing PGAD.

Persistent genital arousal disorder(PGAD)

And then this may help too:

Early morning awaking- managing the morning cortisol spike

Any other WD symptoms?

 

And okay Lovingly, best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Lovingly]

@manymoretodays  thank you for taking the time to reply to my posts. 
 

I haven’t decided what to do yet. I have ordered the supplies that @ryan1982 told me to get to cut the pills. I’m still in turmoil trying to decide. The thing is I need something to help calm me down or else my family will put me in a hospital, or worse I will not make it. 
 

yes the sleep orgasms are very painful and horrifying. But they are happening at the cortisol wakening time. Will that settle?? Will the PGAD go away? I’m a complete mess. I can’t even get myself up off the floor to function. 
 

the drs are telling me to get on meds ASAP and want me to start at 3.75mg and laughed when I told them about a lower dose to start. 
 

when you say dysfunction, can I still heal? Please give me hope for healing. Please!

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Yes, of course.  You can heal. 

Most of this stuff is temporary.  Really.

The PGAD can feel extreme, from my understanding.  I didn't experience that symptom, but from what I can glean, form some of the other members who I have worked with who have had it........it does become, in itself, an obsession that's hard to break free off.  Just the constant worry thoughts, and looping thoughts, and panic.

 

You may want to post on that topic, to gain some further support too, or to help gain some non-drug coping.

 

Do some simple stuff.......just breathe. 

Take some breaks from trying so hard for everyone else.

What are your favorite distractions?

 

You've got little ones at home?

 

Any breaks you can make for yourself.......self care we call it........WILL help. 

And it's hard to do, when we have symptoms for months on end........most of us don't get a whole lot of understanding from loved ones or doctors.

Do your best to lie low, as best you can.

 

Talk with some of the other member Mums too.  Do some of the mutual support.  My son was mid teens when I was going through some of the hardest stuff.  And......when I attempt to apologize now.......and now he is nearly 29........he just says......."oh, forget it, it was nothing........blah, blah, blah......new subject"

Anyway, they thrive in spite of us sometimes. 

(and not down playing my own suffering)

 

But yes, you can heal.  You can adopt hope.  And with me, not all of that time was horrid.  Many windows of life.

 

Get on over to the Symptoms and Self Care forum too.......and look at some of the top pinned topics, and try some of the non-drug coping that appeals now.

 

And best.  L, P, H, G, mmt.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by manymoretodays

[ask2266]

I recently started taking evening primrose oil because I was having hormone imbalance issues from menopause. What was shocking is that it eliminated my early morning adrenaline surges entirely, greatly improved my sleep and seemed to raise my serotonin. Evening primrose oil has gamma-linolenic acid (GLA) in it, which is a type of essential omega-6 fatty acid, which, unlike normal omega-6, is actually very anti-inflammatory to the brain. If you don't get it from food, your body makes it because it is necessary for proper hormone and neurotransmitter balance in the body. Our body normally makes it from other fatty acids, but it takes lots of nutrition to make the conversion and many of us are nutrient deficient. Further, many women have genetic defects that prevent their ability to convert fats to GLA. GLA regulates neurotransmitters and hormones in the brain, and women who do not convert it commonly have severe PMS and menopause symptoms, because their body is unable to balance their hormones and neurotransmitters without it. Imbalanced hormones and neurotransmitters can cause every symptom in the book. What you describe sounds very hormonal in nature, and I wonder if GLA would not help regulate/calm it. It is recommended to take evening primrose with fish oil to balance prostaglandin-types which it produces. I take the Omega Woman, Nordic Naturals brand. It has helped me greatly with anxiety and hormone/adrenal surges. This is not medical advice; I am not a doctor. I am just telling you of something that helped me personally in a dramatic and life-changing way, quite unexpectedly. I will be praying for you. I have been where you are. I know the desperation. Don't give up. You're going to get better.

[Lovingly]

@ask2266  thank you for your message. I need all the hope I can get right now. I’ve wondered if this could all be hormonal but all the doctors laugh at me when I ask that. I’m in such a bad place. I don’t know if I will make it out. It’s destroying me. 
have you heard of all the things that are happening to me being caused by hormones? My mother went thru menopause at my age. But I’m still getting a period. 

[Gurgle]

Hi lovingly. I haven't read all of your posts. I didn't have the pelvic pain like you but had severe back pain in the first year of withdrawal. I also had pgad on top of numerous other issues. It has gone. It last for a year, maybe and gradually subsided. It almost seemed like a restless legs type sensation but in the intimate areas. That alone 24/7 could drive someone to not want to live. One thing I think helped was focusing on low histamine foods. Your histamine system can get messed up in withdrawal sometimes (certainly with ssris- not sure about mirtazapine- see Dr David Healey). 

 

You could try a low histamine diet (especially no tomatoes, chocolate, highly processed meat, avocado, old food etc), and maybe supplement Dao (diamine oxidase) before eating meals ( 3 times a day). Could be worth a shot. Xx 

[Gurgle]

Ps I am 2 1/2 years from my withdrawal issues; reinstated 1mg of citalopram which didn't help. I think promethazine 4 times a day helped to stabilise me a bit but not sure if I'd recommend it as they case cause rls. 

 

I am too scared to come off or change anything at the mo. Still on 3/4 of a promethazine too. 

 

I have two children and our lives are very different. I am in a wave after not having have one like this for a year and a half , which is upsetting as I thought I was past that. I think stress and maybe too many supplements may have tipped me over.

 

I wish you well. You will recover. Do what you can; I know how hard it is. You are doing your very best and what has happened is not your fault . 

[throwaway]

@Lovingly The pudendal neuralgia might be vulvodynia.

https://rxisk.org/bladder-and-bowel-problems-after-antidepressants/

How did it go with reinstating? Gabapentin might help with your anxiety/insomnia/nerve pain. Hope you are well.

[Shep]

On 2/24/2021 at 2:50 AM, throwaway said:

@Lovingly The pudendal neuralgia might be vulvodynia.

https://rxisk.org/bladder-and-bowel-problems-after-antidepressants/

How did it go with reinstating? Gabapentin might help with your anxiety/insomnia/nerve pain. Hope you are well.

 

@throwawayThis is a site for coming off psychiatric drugs. Please do not recommend that members go on new psychiatric drugs to treat withdrawal symptoms. Gabapentin also causes dependency and we have numerous members struggling to taper off this drug. 

[Lovingly]

@throwaway thanks for your message. I never ended up reinstating mirtazapine but I am taking pregabalin. It’s not helping me at all for the pain that I’m in. I truly believe coming off the mirtazapine caused my bowels to spasm and constipation after that and now the nerves are being irritated. I can’t bear this pain anymore. I just need to know that my body can heal from this. 

[Shep]

8 minutes ago, Lovingly said:

I never ended up reinstating mirtazapine but I am taking pregabalin. It’s not helping me at all for the pain that I’m in. 

 

Lovingly, please update your pregabalin (Lyrica) use. You have this in your signature - "started 25mg/day of lyrica for 1 month on dec 25, 2020. Slow taper off. Final dose Jan 27 2021."

 

Did you go back on it after you tapered off on January 27? If so, when did you reinstate and at what dose? 

[DinaDina]

How are you now? I have an urinary/PGAD issues after 3,5 weeks taking Zoloft. At first I got an overactive bladder. I needed to urinate all time. Then I got strong pain in lower abdomen, sides, back. I want to urinate all time and it feels like arousal. I have a feeling of urine in my urethra (if you want you can read all my symptoms in my thread).

 

I visited many doctors but all of the thought that it was neurosis and only inside my head. So I stopped to look for an understanding doctor and just waiting without any meds. I only bought TENS but I don’t know it helps me or not.

 

Hugs. I try to believe that we will be ok soon.

[Lovingly]

How to taper off of lyrica

 

Hi, I have been taking lyrica for the past 3 weeks. I started with 25mg a day for one week. Then 50mg (25mg in the am and 25mg in the evening), and now I’m on 75mg a day (25mg in the am and 50mg in the evening) for a week. I have noticed they going from 50mg to 75mg caused more side effects - headache, dry mouth, increased appetite, difficulty breathing and forgetfulness. I would like to start to come off if it. How can I do this effectively without messing things up more. I was put on it for nerve pain and to calm my nervous system. It has helped to calm me down but not for nerve pain. Please advice. Thank you. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Shep
added title of thread after moving it from the tapering section

[Shep]

@LovinglyPlease note I moved your most recent post off the tapering section and placed it here in your Intro thread. Please continue posting about your taper here so all of your information is in the same place.

 

15 hours ago, Lovingly said:

I have been taking lyrica for the past 3 weeks.

 

Thank you for updating your signature so we can see that you were on Lyrica for a month back in December and came off in January before this recent reinstatement. 

 

It may be hard to tell what is what - if your symptoms are from side effects, withdrawal effects, prior drug withdrawal, or nervous system kindling and destabilization from so many changes. 

 

Please start a drug and symptoms journal. This will help us guide you in setting up a taper or to see if you may be better off staying on this drug at an effective dose (and what that may be) and stabilizing before trying to make any other changes. Please include drugs, doses, supplements (with doses), and the number of hours you sleep each night.

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 

Example:

DATE:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

[Altostrata]

On 2/28/2021 at 2:34 PM, Lovingly said:

I have noticed they going from 50mg to 75mg caused more side effects - headache, dry mouth, increased appetite, difficulty breathing and forgetfulness.

 

Suggest you go back to 50mg, 25mg in morning and 25mg 12 hours later.

[Lovingly]

@Altostrata the doctor has suggested just dropping the morning dose altogether and taking 50mg just at night. This scares me. I like what you are suggesting better but can I just cut the evening dose to 25mg without titrating down? I have to take the dose in 20 min and I’m so stressed about what to do. I’ve even called 2 pharmacies to ask their advice and everyone is telling me to just eliminate the morning dose. 

[Altostrata]

If you were better on 25mg twice a day, I'd go back to that. Your choice. 

 

You've been taking the increased amount for only a week. You should be able to cut back right off.

[Lovingly]

Hi all,

 

im still struggling over here. Anyone has advice how to reduce me dose of lyrica from 100mg back down to 75? I take 50mg in the am and 50 in the pm. I don’t like the way it makes me feel and it’s done nothing for my pain at all. Please advice. I don’t want to mess this up. @Boris@Altostrata

[Altostrata]

So I guess you didn't see my earlier posts?

 

How long have you been taking 100mg per day?

[Lovingly]

@Altostrata  sorry I didn’t see them. I don’t remember exactly when I increased. I think maybe a month. Can I just drop my night dose to 25mg?

[Altostrata]

With all due respect, if you don't read my responses, I don't see why I should go to the trouble to compose them. Perhaps you should take your questions to your doctor. I'm not paid to be on call here.

 

Go back and read this topic from the beginning.

[Lovingly]

@Altostrata I apologize. I’m in an extremely fragile state over here dealing with a lot. My memory isn’t the best. I did read your earlier posts, but that was when I was on the 75mg. I posted again bc my dosage changed since me last inquiry. I understand your not getting paid and I don’t mean to waste your time. Just someone over here who is extremely depressed, in pain and on the verge of taking my life. Just looking for some advice from people who understand. Unfortunately my dr won’t help me. Thanks for understanding. 

[Altostrata]

See Tips for tapering off Lyrica (pregabalin)

[Anya324]

@Lovingly

 

How are you doing?

 

I am have read this whole thread and am having some of the same issues with my lady bits. I have heard/read from many people on here and other Antidepressant withdrawal pages that this will get better. It just takes an unknown amount of time.
 

As it stands right now, my issues are worsening. Started with frequency, then turned into a UTI feeling with intense biting in my urethra ans then bladder but no infection. Was diagnosed with Interstitial Cystitis 9/10/21.

Over the last few days, my clitoris is becoming extremely sensitive/swollen. I have numbing cream that helps the urethral discomfort but it doesn’t do much for the clitoris feeling—that’s deep inside. It’s so hard not to obsess over these symptoms.
 

I am having a procedure on Monday to look in my bladder, and to help with the pain and urgency. I wonder if it will help the other issues. I am also spending this weekend learning more about how to implement a low histamine diet.  I have read a lot about histamines recently and I think that could be a major player in WD side effects and symptoms. 
 

 

[Lovingly]

@Anya324

 

hi,

 

I wish I could tell you things were better for me but they aren’t. It’s been a really hard 17 months. I would love to chat with you more. I have had many tests and imaging done. They looked at my bladder and inside my urethra. I’ve mad MRIs. The answers I’m getting from doctors are so hopeless. I’m trying hard to believe that the body can heal on it own. I’m working on trying to retrain my brain and calm my nervous system. We can chat more in private messages if you want. Let me know. 

[ryan1982]

Hey @Lovingly-

I actually have IC as well and I have an interstim device implanted to help with frequency. Totally life-changing:

 

https://www.axonics.com/patients/about-axonics-therapy/axonics-therapy

[peaceandlove]

On 1/29/2021 at 12:38 PM, SandCastle said:

Wow girl, you have been through it! I actually just came across this because It came up when I searched “pelvic” since I’ve been having a lot of pelvic pain lately. I have had many symptoms come and go - and am grateful for the ones that have gone - but the pelvic pain is back right now. I had that a lot in the beginning when I first quit Sertraline, but it hasn’t been a problem for the last few months. I developed pretty bad back, hip and butt pain as well after stopping (hip and lower back were the worst) and those remain persistent, and I know what you mean about the pressure feeling! Sometimes it’s like a stack of bricks are just sitting at the bottom of my core. None of this happened to me before my antidepressant roller coaster last year. Last spring I went to so many doctors that I swore I wasn’t going to see another one for a year unless it was an ER situation. I’m about to cave on this pelvic thing though because it’s so painful at times. I don’t really have a lot of advice for you at this point, but I wanted to let you know someone else was experiencing something similar!

hey I’m going through the same. Weird pelvic pain/ lower back. Also just feeling weird down there like urge to urinate or burning & No uti. Has your pelvic pain gone away ??

[SandCastle]

Hi @peaceandlove The pelvic pain from early last year went away but came back around November. A few months later I got an ultrasound and did find out I had PCOS, but the doctor said she didn’t think that would cause pain, just irregular periods and some other symptoms. The pain actually lasted through maybe May of this year, but it’s gone now. My back pain is also currently gone, which has been great. I do have pain in other areas, like my thumbs, wrists and knees, but I remember the pain being worse when it was pelvic, back and hip pain. Hopefully this eases for you soon!

[peaceandlove]

On 9/4/2022 at 2:31 PM, SandCastle said:

Hi @peaceandlove The pelvic pain from early last year went away but came back around November. A few months later I got an ultrasound and did find out I had PCOS, but the doctor said she didn’t think that would cause pain, just irregular periods and some other symptoms. The pain actually lasted through maybe May of this year, but it’s gone now. My back pain is also currently gone, which has been great. I do have pain in other areas, like my thumbs, wrists and knees, but I remember the pain being worse when it was pelvic, back and hip pain. Hopefully this eases for you soon!

thank you so much for the reply. I’m glad it’s gone away for you. Continue to feel better 🙂

[Boges11]

Anyone have updates for this? I am having a tough time with swelling and pressure feel and agitated akathisia like feeling…. Almost like my insides are being pushed out. It’s awful. 
wondering how I can help this and what may be the problem. Off slow taper of Klonopin in Aug and started mirt in Dec for extreme akathisia but it’s made all worse and is neurotoxic for me. Tapering off mirt but very sensitized and will take time getting down.

 

Is PT work advised? Osteopath or regular PT?

thanks.