Venlafckcine My solution to insomnia and other syptoms after withdrawal by tapering failed

[Venlafckcine]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks a lot for this great forum! It's cool that so many people try to help each other out! 😃

To make a long story short:
 

- Tried to taper off Venlafaxine for over 3 years 

- Had to quit this process on 5 beads (1,65 mg) after tachycardia and collapse in 2020 --> CNS didn't stabilize anymore --> decided to quit.

- After that heavy discontinuation syndrome with severe insomnia and other symptoms --> quite the same (symptoms) as what Altostrata descirbes in her history

- After many years of scientific research I came to the assumption that dormant viruses can trigger symptoms like depression, fatigue, anhedonia and many more. 

 

--> My solution: Plane celery juice! 

- Started 4-10-2021

- Symptoms of Fatigue lifted after 5 days

- Imsomnia improved significantly after 24 days

- To be continued

 

Looking forward to our exchange here.

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @Venlafckcine

 

Good to hear you're feeling better. Are you on a fast consuming only celery juice?

[Phoenixmama]

@Venlafckcine hello how are you doing 

[Venlafckcine]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Welcome, @Venlafckcine

 

Good to hear you're feeling better. Are you on a fast consuming only celery juice?

Hi Alto,

Thanks a lot! Great to be here!

It's not exactly a fasting cure. I justed added it to my common diet as a first thing in the morning on empty stomach. Actually I quit smoking some days before and I was looking for a "substitute". So I purchased a blender and started to make smoothies and celery juice.

 

The reason why I quit smoking was that i read that the withdrawal from SSNRI would affect the cholinergic system. I wondered if (only) smokers would have these severe withdrawal symptoms as smoking of course affects the cholinergic system like no other substance. 

In other places and forums people advice to abstain from nicotine withdrawal during other drug withdrawal as this would irritate the CNS additionally. In my eyes this is true in short term but in long term there is nothing more irritating your CNS, immune system, cholinergic system, etc. but smoking because only by smoking you are in a constant withdrawal as soon as you finished one cigarette.

 

It would be interesting to know about your experiences here on this forum!

 

Ven

[Venlafckcine]

2 hours ago, Phoenixmama said:

@Venlafckcine hello how are you doing 

Hey,

Very good actually! It's the first time after 8 month that I can fall asleep at night time without waking up constantly. A side effect is that I feel quite dizzy during the day. But this is OK so far and no relation to what I experienced before in withdrawal from SSNRI.

But I can't say what effect it might have when you're still under medication and what interactions with drugs might occur. This is the only information that I could find so far: 
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-882/celery

 

Ven

[Altostrata]

Is it possible you are feeling better because you quit smoking?

 

What time of day did you take venlafaxine? How did your sleep change after you stopped?

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

[Venlafckcine]

In my experience the effects of tobacco cessation on mood set in only after 2-3 month. But of course there are also short term benefits.

 

When I stop juicing for 2-3 days effects vanish and sleep gets worse.

 

Usually I took the medication in the morning at around 7-8 a.m.

Sleep was quite OK during regular intake. After 3-6 month I developed a fatigue syndrom which I initially didn't identify as such. Due to this syndrom I used a methylated vit. b complex or took some b6 before work outs because this was the only thing keeping me more or less going.

 

When I reduced from 6 to 5 beads I recognized that I was extremely agitated and sleep wasn't possible any more. After I quit the b vitamins (which I took for a long time without any issues) this state improved slowly over ca. 6 weeks and sleep was possible here and there.

 

When I try to close my eyes at around 10-11 p.m. my body reacts paradoxical and wakes me up with some sort of "shocking sensation" as soon as I start relaxing. In times where I am lucky I can get 2-3 hours of light sleep during the morning hours. 

 

My GP prescribed diazepam. I took this occasionally (max. 2,5-5 mg) when states of insomnia became worse.

 

Signature to follow. 

 

Ven

[Altostrata]

I guess if celery juice works for you, it works.

 

You must take venlafaxine at the same time each day. Even a few hours variation can result in odd symptoms.

 

2 hours ago, Venlafckcine said:

After 3-6 month I developed a fatigue syndrom

 

Do you mean venlafaxine made you tired?

 

2 hours ago, Venlafckcine said:

When I try to close my eyes at around 10-11 p.m. my body reacts paradoxical and wakes me up with some sort of "shocking sensation" as soon as I start relaxing. In times where I am lucky I can get 2-3 hours of light sleep during the morning hours. 

 

This is a common symptom of sensitization after experiencing withdrawal symptoms or other adverse drug effects. See

 

Strange sensations while falling asleep -- surges, zaps, jerks

 

Hypnic / hypnagogic jerks when falling asleep

 

Waking with panic or anxiety -- managing the morning cortisol spike

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

White noise devices for sleep

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

[Venlafckcine]

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

I guess if celery juice works for you, it works.

Couldn't figure out yet how it works. Guess I'll have to find the right dose and time to take it to avoid side effects like dizziness during in day. In respect to sleep it works better then Diazepam. 

 

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Do you mean venlafaxine made you tired?

 

Not only tired it made me fatigued like lethargic with complete loss of energy and motivation. There are different theories about this issue. But there is evidence that SSNRI affect the immune system which might lead to mitochondrial dysfunction and fatigue. Same goes for opioids which show immunosuppressive effects. And Venlafaxine effects opioid receptors indirectly. 

 

Thanks for the links! 

[Venlafckcine]

Update: Sleep recovery after 2 years!

 

Hi guys,

 

Just recently I discovered what was the problem with my sleep issues. After almost 2 years since I stopped  Venlafaxine completely I am able to get restful sleep for 2 month now. There was not one night ever since where this was possible after I quit Venlafaxine. 

What I discovered now is a certain kind of vitamin b12. I read a lot about b12 on this forum here and recognised that it helped others here and there - more or less. One part of the problem why some ppl may profit and others may not - could be the form of b12. There are several types of b12 - here in short:

Cyanocobalamin: synthetic form

Methylcobalamin: natural and "active" form as it occurs in the body (cytoplasm)

Adenosylcobalamin: another natural form that occurs in the body which is used for energy production in the cells (mitochondria). 

Hydroxocobalamin: another natural form that can produced by gut bacteria. 

Now what I recognised is that different products gave me different results. First I purchased an expensive product for children with only 10 mcg per serving. It was a product with methylcobalamin (75 %) plus adenosylcobalamin (25 %) . I increased dose up to 50 mcg during 4 weeks and sleep came back slowly. And I took this only after 6 p.m.

Now after 2 month I use another product from the same brand with same formula in a much higher dose from up to 1000 mcg and sleep became even better.

Before that I used other products with methylcobalamin only which didn't have this effect but made me even severely depressed after intake.

I also tried a different brand (much cheaper) which also stated to use both methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin. This brand didn't work at all and made many symptoms worse. I read on a report that some manufacturers would use cheaper forms of b12 in their products because adenosylcobalamin would be more difficult to stabilize than other forms. 

What I do now in addition - and what I did before withdrawal in much higher doses - I use folate in a dose of 400 mcg during the day. This also seems to help with energy and wellbeing.

Additionally I use zinc and selenium which help a lot with an impaired immune system and with skin and other chronic conditions that worsened during and after Venlafaxine intake.

Hope this might help.

To your health!
Ven

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic