ADWarrior: Noritren / nortriptyline / Pamelor withdrawal from Japan

[Iman]

@Tranquilpeace

 

Hey there my fella. I seem to be catching up to the lively discussion with not a very negligible delay. 😁 the things u're going through are amongst the pretty normal process of healing. There're a few issues you need to consider here. First is that some of the symptoms are the direct side effects of the drug in your blood with their own unique pattern of occurrence and frequency while some are generated by you withdrawing from the medication when tapering or cold turkeying (i don't recommend cold turkeying at all). Surprisingly enough, a certain number of symptoms belong to both categories. Believe it or not, I've been on this poison for 6 years now and my dose even reached 125 MG at some point. Nightmares and relentless intrusive thoughts; these are but a few amongst the tons of symptoms I went through during this ordeal and 6-year marathon. You're lucky you were on merely 20 MG tops. The most important thing here is that symptoms subside by the passage of time and whatever symptom you're going through is just a necessary constituent of the ultimate recovery. Each time symptoms soar and seemingly spiral out of control is great news and you should be delighted as this indicates a huge chunk of recovery is in the making and the window ahead will be a better more extended one. The best you can do here is to ride through the symptoms and lessen the suffering you're subjected to. For the intrusive thoughts, bear in mind that when in withdrawal, your brain creates utterly bothersome and disturbing images as well as extremely negative verbal accounts from the people, objects and issues who/which are of the highest significance to you. Your brain is doing this to make you take specially extra care to protect the ones you love and care about most. Just let the thoughts and images run their course, those are NOT you, the proof is that when they happen you can still talk sensibly and act rationally which is pretty much the true YOU. You are the voice over those thoughts and images, so let them run and instead practice to be indifferent to them and not attach any emotion or feeling to them. This will gradually happen with enough time and practice. I'm sure you know what Pinterest is. An amazing practice to tame your temporarily frantic brain is to expose it to beautiful pictures and images of nature, traveling, sunshine, holidays, literature, architecture, music, cartoon characters, seaside, ancient buildings and the list goes on. This practice will be especially more effective when listening to piano being played while browsing through these lovely images. My favorite piano channel is "solo piano radio". There are times when intrusive thoughts co-occur with other horrible symptoms like panic attacks or uncontrolled anxiety(remember intrusive thoughts are never capable of creating anxiety and panic attacks by themselves; nasty thoughts are most of the time there and other anxiety symptoms happen quite independently and sometimes simultaneous with intrusive thoughts making you judge that these thoughts have brought on these anxiety attacks while this is absolutely NOT the case). At such times, I take only a few sips of rose water and after a few minutes a mouthful of milk thistle tincture. This combination is a product of my numerous trial and error attempts hosts of herbal products and potions. It works fast and subsides much of the agony when these nasty thoughts and anxiety attacks co-occur. As for the nightmares, I'm doing great with a cup of chamomile tea or borage tea. Sleeping on your sides is also a great solution for nightmares and night terrors. Sorry for being too wordy, just doing my best to help. Stay strong and keep your faith. ✌️👍💪🌷

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

@Iman

 

Hey man, thank you for reaching out and for ALL of your information. This is a journey I am completely new to and one I never imagined having to venture down. And as I'm sure you can imagine can be very lonely especially when being afraid and attempting to avoid  being sent down the big pharma trial and tribulations.

 

Everything you said makes a lot of sense and the teas are what I actually began to use to help me overcome the insomnia issues I had started to have. I have also come to find out through research these TCAs are not well respected and are very nasty.

 

Thus why we are going through what we are. You explaining the intrusive thoughts the way you did is amazing and God I really appreciate it man. Like you have no idea how much reading that helped me greatly. And it makes so much sense! Kind of piecing together what you were describing with the detachment caused by the cessation of the medicine and the emotional blunting. I believe these cause me to fear the intrusive thoughts times 100!

 

Im going to utilize these techniques you outlined to help when the waves hit. I feel much better today than I did for the past three days (was a heavy heavy wave, probably triggered by the fact I'm being medically discharged from the army due to my hemiplegic Migraines) but the waves now are really just heavy intrusive thoughts and the lack of ability to let them flow and dismiss themselves. Today is the MOST normal day I have had since cessation 20 some days ago. I feel kind of down but the intrusive thoughts today are not as heavy or loud. And when they have come I have noticed my brain has been able to let them go fairly easily the way it's suppose to normally function. But the past 3 days were back to feeling just like I did the initial 8 days which was rough.

 

I just truck through it, the thoughts are very tormenting cause my goodness I never knew my mind was capable of creating such awful evil scenarios. But I am learning that it passes which is just something I have to keep in mind when I get hit with a wave.

 

The cold turkey was definitely not something I even knew or understood when I began this process. And of course my Neuro not giving sufficient information warning or even believing all of this is possible didn't help one bit. And by the time I had found this place I felt I had already been face to face with the devil and didn't want to reinstate and start from the beggining. Especially considering the akathesia and Neuro missfires like the uncontrolled smiling the getting lost and confused out of no where the loosing feeling in areas of my body etc.

 

But now that I am educating myself and also have been able to read and talk to so many wonderful people on here(most of whom all are facing much more than what I am and did because of the time on the medication the multiple medications and the dosages) I have taken great notice and realization what so many face from these drugs. It is absolutely insane. 

 

I wish you nothing but success and timely recovery/healing I am right there with you. Thank you for so much positivity. This is the scariest thing I have ever been through and that's saying something cause in my life and career I have seen some stuff to say the very least. So it means a great deal

[ADWarrior]

@Iman

Great to hear from you! I hope you doing better every day. I think you have hit the nail on the head and explained how to deal with the intrusive thoughts to @Tranquilpeace better I could ever have. I am glad it is recorded here as I am sure other people (including me) can benefit from your input! 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

@ADWarrior @Iman

 

the intrusive thoughts have been like a war for me. Then you go looking for reassurance to make sure you're not a murderous monster waiting to explode and it just makes everything worse and creates additional intrusive thoughts to battle.

 

I am very sure this is a symptom many do not feel confident or comfortable talking about. I know I definitely wasn't because it's so terrifying. So I agree I'm sure there will be tons of people that read that and will feel much needed relief.

 

[Tranquilpeace]

Well between intrusive thoughts and not feeling the emotion of love has been the hardest part of the entire healing process

[Iman]

@ADWarrior hey there my daredevil warrior. Hope you're in good health. I feel positive vibes about you even if you don't feel them yourself and I'm confident you're not letting the Nori poison and its withdrawal get the better of you. As for myself, I'm on 4.6 MG now and the water solution method is proving pretty smooth and manageable for me. Symptoms and side effects are still there as they've always been but I've developed the much needed skills and techniques to deal with them effectively. Let me know how you're doing and if there's anything I can do to help. 🙂🙂🙂

 

@Tranquilpeace

 

My dearest Tranquilpeace. It may sound extremely odd to you now but as time goes on and you learn how to take the bull of withdrawal by the horns, you'll see that withdrawal has been a blessing in disguise enabling you to become a superhuman for whom problems and hardships of the ordinary folks are nothing more than a briskly walk in the park. You'll grow stronger and stronger day by day and remember after riding each wave, the work of recovery is in further progress. As for intrusive thoughts, you'll have to learn that it's nothing more than a sypmtom and not a part of your true self and character so you don't even need to answer them back or prove anything when they challenge you. As I said earlier, it's a skill that you'll eventually learn as many including myself have. Do you ever spent time proving yourself right in reaction to a constantly nagging and crying child? This is just that. I've grown most indifferent to the these intrusive thoughts and have separated my core beliefs from them. You can do this as well. It's an already acquired skill for me so you'll get the hang of too. The only inconvenience the thoughts create for me now is their shower at sleep time and only on the first to 3rd night of each time of tapering. At such times, I take a mix of rosewater and milk thistle which does wonders. A tiny dose of Advil (no more than 100 mg) does the same soothing trick on my temporarily uneasy state of mind. Believe me, there were times of extreme sexual dysfunction and emotional numbness for me when I was in the thick of it as far as withdrawal is concerned. So, as you can see it's just a natural process of healing all of us have to trek through but with numerous eventual virtues and benefits. Look at your symptoms the way you look at coughing and nasal congestion as symptoms when you catch a cold. Is nasal congestion a part of you?? Of course not, it's just there for a short while until your body takes the necessary measures to get back to its normal and default function. The only difference here between your body and your brain is the recovery span which is understandably longer for the brain as it's a whole lot more complicated that the rest of your body parts. So, stay strong and keep faith. 💪 💪💪 we're always there for you. 🌹🌹🌹

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[ADWarrior]

@Iman

I am very happy to hear that you are already on 4.6mg! I know it must feel like to make it this far! I know you can make it all the way and I am hoping to read the email form you soon  As you said it is making us stronger and to learn some lessons we have to go through some dark places. Keep it up I am on your side! 

 

As per my progress it is in baby steps but I am still not cutting anything (12months) and recovering from the symptoms I had been getting since discontinuing Lorazepam ( Benzo) and Antidepressant too fast. I finally feel like I can enjoy my days a little more and I have started with some light regular exercise (yoga, bicycle) as my nervous system was too sensitive that all I could do is walk slowly until now. Let's hope this trend will continue.

 

For now I am just hoping to stabilize before I can get back onto the cutting road but very very slowly this time  

 

Will keep you posted! Same here if you need anything let me know please. Your persistence keep me going !

[Iman]

@ADWarrior

 

So thrilled to hear you've made this much progress in uplifting your mood and overall feeling of joy. 👏👏👏✌️✌️✌️💪💪💪 as I'm sure you already know, being able to exercise especially aerobic exercises is one huge token of mental health and well-being. I'm still too sensitive to do aerobic exercises and whenever I do, I end up having my nervous system uncomfortably revved up. So, I usually limit myself to some stretching exercises and pretty light workout. I'm laser-focused on the finish line as I came to know how sweet the taste of pure mental health is during these last few and fleeting windows I enjoyed. I'm now in the middle of a relatively harsh wave but nothing I can't wade through with my coping mechanisms. I believe in you as a strong man with an iron will power. You've already beaten some horrid beasts (the benzo and the other antidepressant) and this TCA poison will be the last to rid yourself of. Don't hesitate to pm me if there's anything I can do to help. I'll drop by every now and then to inquire after you and our other TCA-combating comrade @Tranquilpeace. Keep up the good job and have fun, dude. ✌️👍⚘️🌹🌷💪

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

@Iman @ADWarrior

 

Hhey there fellas,

 

firstly I want to thank you guys both. Your responses and conversation is something I thank God for so much while going through this involentary roller coaster ride.

 

@ADWarrior I am praying for you my friend and hoping that you can soon taper some more! I wish I had known or found this site before I went cold turkey. It was so damn brutal and had no idea because it was at the direction of a neuro. Like suddenly being pushed off a hill into an abyss of fire. I think it's awesome you are doing some light workout and yoga. I want to get back to lifting weight so bad, but I am TERRIFIED, because a full cup of coffee the other day sent me back down the rabbit whole.

 

Some new symptoms for the both of you to hear about is I developed gynecomastia in both of my pecs!! And all the sudden ED is an issue 🙄 and man the emotional anesthesia affect of coming off this medicine is what gets me down now the most. And that leads to those evil thoughts here and there. But I am able to dismiss them easier now thank the Lord.

 

looking back I am now understanding some symptoms I had the entire time on the poison such as suddenly being lost and confused, uncontrolled smiling, inability to see any sort of violence or negative movies, difficulty processing those things. The uncontrolled sweating all kinds of crap like that.

 

I spoke to a good friend of mine from when I worked in the correctional system, he is a psychologist. I spoke to him off record and ran this entire process by him. He absolutely wigged out that the Neuro didn't do it inform or guide me at all. But he swears up and down that after 31 days I should be perfectly fine.  He said if any of these symptoms aren't completely gone by now that I need to go check in. He acknowledged withdrawal syndrome but goes by the books in terms of recovery time. Which we all here have hard factual evidence that isn't true. 

 

He did encourage me being careful because he said the system would want to prescribe other drugs (that a heeeeeee***** no for me😂😂) but he said they would do 1 of 2 things either stating it would be bipolar disorder or harm OCD and that it is "unmasked"

 

I find this arrogance of our health system gut wrenching. I thank God had never experienced anything in terms of ocd or bipolar or mood swings or anxiety or depression. And I was being treated for something completely separate. It's really crazy to me. And how many poor souls are trapped in that system that haven't found this place? That haven't realized "hey this isn't a me issue" you know? It's crazy 

 

@Iman I tried rose tea, incredible! Thank you so much, I also found a little cocktail of tea, one is a Tension Tamer, sleepy time tea (chamomile) and then a probiotic with peach. Nice and hot sweetened with some honey and man it brings my brain and body down. If you haven't already tried it I encourage you to. It was so nice.

 

I know you both are on a deeper road for a longer time than I, and I tell you I admire you both for handling this the way that you have especially the onset of those messed up thoughts, because for me that was by far the worst thing to go through. And if I hadn't of found this thread to see I'm not the only one and to be inspired by you then who knows I may if went down that big pharma trap. 

 

I Mean no offense by this, God bless you both. I check this thread daily to see if you guys have experienced change and to hopefully provide something for you guys as you have me. 

 

you both are much more educated and experienced than I, but I am here for you guys I promise! We got this. This too shall pass!

 

 

 

 

 

[ADWarrior]

@Tranquilpeace

 

I hope you are doing better! I am sorry about my slow reply. I was going through some of my own waves so didn't feel like writing a supporting email  

 

I can only confirm that all the symptoms you are going through are normal in withdrawal and I did suffer from most of them at some point. 

 

Gynecomastia - yes I did notice that and it can be frightening but as soon as you get back to some regular activity you will see improvement. Just take it slowly. Many of us made the mistake trying to do to quickly to soon and then to face another wave. 

ED- S E X was the last thing on my mind during my intense recovery. I couldn't bear people touching me so I can't attest to it but again don't have any help or suggestion just treat it as a symptom that will go away when your nervous system gets better. 

Emotional anesthesia - again very common and can be scary but please remind yourself that body does the best it can to help you to heal. 

 

I will share with you a very important tip from my session with my psychologist.

 

When Our nervous system is unbalance we have DECISIONS to make about everything. 

 

You are either in WATER or FUEL/GAS response to events, thoughts, circumstance or challenges. Train yourself to stay in WATER as much as possible to calm and heal your Nervous system. The FUEL does the opposite! 

 

WATER - Peace, Calm, Rest, Acceptance, Under React, Prayer, Imagining the best, Confident, Distraction, Enjoy, Containment - Produces calms and heals the NS 

 

FUEL/GAS - Stress, Anxiety, Fear,Panic, OverReact, Crisis living, Catastrophic living,Worry, Fretfulness, Imaging the worst,Nervousenss - Produce the stress response that stimulates NS and body 

 

As per the arrogance of the medical system. Don't point finger at anyone we and only we are responsible for what gets into our body. Blaming somebody else will inflame the fire in you and you need to stay in a water state so learn to accept. I was watching Rocky V I believe it is where he talks to his son about how winning is done. I would like to share the quote here with you as it resonates with me. You can of course look it up on Youtube for better theatrical experience  

 

" Let me tell you something you already know .The world is not all sunshine and rainbows it is very mean and nasty place and I don’t care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and leave you there permanently if you let it, you me or nobody is going to hit as hard as life but ain’t about how hard you hit but how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much you can take and keep moving forward - that’s how wining is done! Now if you know what you re worth go and get what you worth but you are going to be willing to take the hits and not pointing fingers you ain’t what you want to be because of him or her or anybody cowards do that and that ain’t you - you are better than that. Until you start believing in yourself you ain’t gone have a life!"

 

I sincerely hope you are feeling better by now and this helps just a tiny bit! 

 

Warm greetings 

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

@ADWarrior

 

Hey there my friend,

 

Firstly I apologize for coming off as super panicked and crazy. I had never ever experienced those things or anything remotely close to it in my life and man the initial sudden onset and shock of those things was awful.

 

Also I am very sorry to hear that you have been going through time and experiencing some waves. I hope that you are in a long and smooth window.

 

I appreciate you reaching out and reassuring me on many of these symptoms.

 

I am doing much better, still have some waves, and have had onset of other symptoms as I heal. Lately it has been DP and DR really bad.

 

 

The intrusive thoughts have subsided, those were the harshest and most difficult of my symptoms to deal with. Now when I experience them I believe I experience them out of fear of the thought of having them vs the imagery and thoughts just coming in out of nowhere. So learning how to not fear the thought of that symptom coming back is something I have to learn. Other than that I have noticed my skin has had a horrible horrible time after the medication especially when I shave. Cystic acne has suddenly hit me and that is far out of my norm. Very painful too.

 

When it comes to being water or fuel, my goodness I understand that and the explanation and details are very accurate. I have been learning how to be water and really force myself to come when onset of anxiety attacks hit or when waves come. And they definitely still come. But I can finally tell what a wave is and what a window is truly which has given me drive and hope in returning to normal. Just need the patience and persistence to get there. That and I need to make sure I sleep enough and have 0 caffeine or I am sent back to square one with my oversensitive NS

 

You are very correct on blaming others and it making you angry. During the first month and a half I was super bitter cause it felt like my life and mind were being robbed from me.

 

But thanks to you guys and the support from this God sent site I learned it was medication and not me. And that most of all none of us were alone, no matter how bad our medical systems want us to believe we are alone or that it's us vs the medication.

 

You and @ImanI can't thank enough cause you very much saved me dead in the midst of the worst horror of this entire thing. I'm learning how to handle it. 

 

The beautiful thing in this is it brought my faith closer to Christ and it really brought my wife and I to a much much closer and more beautiful bond. We have always been amazing but this experience has forced us to evolve and grow even more. And I now found out my wife was polydrugged for a long time before her and I, and she was on much stronger psychiatric drugs.

 

so it created a beautiful connection between us which is just crazy honestly.

 

But anyways, enough about me. I really hope you are doing and feeling better and your taper is consistently lowering and you are getting even closer to setting yourself free from these dang things. Anything I can do for you please let me know, any help I can be. Venting or whatever I can do. I know I can't do much in comparison cause of your experience it I am here.

 

@Iman I hope you're doing well and healing quickly my friend!

 

 

[Iman]

@Tranquilpeace

 

Hey there Tranquilpeace my dear fellow. 

 

Great to hear you're overcoming the fear of the OCD thoughts. They usually strike in 2 forms, first is the severe form where your brain keeps producing unpleasant images(along with extremely negative commentary stemming from a part of your brain which is far from your true self and character) against your will and they peak and subside by themselves. Best you can do as I discussed earlier is to work on reducing the amount of anxiety and stress you're experiencing when the shower of thoughts strike. I have my own methods of dealing with them and controlling them but at times I deliberately refrain from applying the methods and mechanism of alleviating the anxiety and the severity of the thoughts only to prove to myself and my soul that I CAN put up with even the most horrid face of this evil and come out undamaged. I then record a video reminding myself of how I could let the OCD episode strike and go unaided. The rest of the times I use my techniques of controlling and relieving the stress and anxiety imposed on me by each episode I go through.

 

Second form of OCD is actually not the actual OCD by definition but rather the fear of the thoughts striking and forming in your mind again. This latter category is not WD and all healthy people in life experience it every now and then; the more you try not to think about something the more you force your brain to consider it (the pink elephant theory). This latter category is nothing more than a briskly walk in the park when compared to the former. If you've been able to take control of the actual OCD, the second is just a child's play for you.

 

Dear Tranquilpeace, as you rightly noted, this whole thing and the hell we're going through has a divine purpose beyond it, once we're out of this mess even during the windows we experience, we begin to value the blessings and bounties we had at our service all throughout these years and we took them for granted. Being able to love and appreciate beauty is the biggest blessing coming from above. This whole WD hell has awakened the God in me, one that I would always reject its existence until it came to my rescue when walking thorough hell. I believe most WD sufferers can easily relate to what I mean by this. There's something superhuman in us and God exists whether we like it or not and this is beautiful.

 

My dearest Tranquilpeace, always try your best using your soul and not your physical brain to cling to the smallest bounties and blessings you have access to and perhaps the biggest and at the same time most subtle one is that you're medication-free and are slowly but surely recovering from this WD hell. You're literally several steps ahead of me and dear @ADWarrior(a true legend in fighting multiple drugs with incredible wisdom and foresight) as we're still in the taper stage and not yet done with eliminating this poison from our system (as I said earlier, I've been taking and tapering this poison for almost 5 years now and am still at 4 mg). This should be a strong incentive for you to be grateful and show your gratitude to your karma and your God. Once this whole thing is over, you'll see yourself in your most powerful version you could ever imagine, mark my words. I wish the best version of life possible at the end of your journey. Take care and stay strong. We'll be always there for you and for each other. 👍✌️🌹🌷

[Tranquilpeace]

@Iman

 

Hey man happy to hear from you, sorry it took me a bit to reply back to you.

 

As always I appreciate your response and information greatly, this is all very new and fresh to me and I'm still learning as I go. And your explanations of things grant me a lot of relief and reassurance and they make complete sense

 

What you and ADWarrior are battling is something that I commend you on and admire you both for because for me this has been the most challenging part of my life, I can't imagine what it is like for you guys.

 

I am off the medication and very thankful for it. I have been in a bit of a wave the past week. Started with a schedule change (from graveyard to dayshift) pretty rough in sleep and the shock to the body etc. 

 

The other morning I drank a larger cup of coffee than what I should have and went into an anxiety feeling. But also felt a bit confused and lost for about 2 hours. Really felt like I was loosing my mental solidarity almost as if I was going to fall off the cliff and into looney vill if that makes sense. That was the most freaked out I have been since the very beginning of this process. Freaked me out quite a bit.

 

Paranoid and afraid of going crazy and loosing my mental health or memory. All these things are wacky and new symptoms for me and all things I have never suffered before the medication withdrawal. So I am trying to reassure myself I am okay and that it's just another wave and a symptom directly related to the medication or the WD and the anxiety associated with it.

 

I have noticed a larger problem I have began having is being so concerned about every thought and this sudden fear of ever loosing my mental health, my mental health suddenly falling apart out of my control or something like that. Things I never was really worried or concerned about before the withdrawal process. I assume this is because of the exposure of my mind to that dark side of mental health (from the withdrawal) 

 

The Ocd side effects really really suck from the withdrawal cause these are all things I had never suffered from or worried about.

 

Especially the getting lost stuff. But we just have to take it as it comes and roll with it.i appreciate you both for listening to these things from me, I try to tell you guys everything for comfort to see if it is normal and something you guys suffer as well,  but also to let you guys know these are things I am going through so anyone else who hits that sudden adverse reaction or WD they can look it up and see everything the three of us experience and find assurance and comfort in it.

 

I know when I found the two of you talking about all these things I was thinking God about because I was desperately trying to find answers.

 

Anyways I hope you both are doing well and trucking through this. And you are 100% right we are here for eachother and I am here for you guys in anyway I can be

 

[ADWarrior]

@Tranquilpeace

 

 

I wanted to tell you that you don't need to apologize for feeling the way you are  If anybody understand you literally it is us here on this forum! Please feel free to share for us and maybe some others who might be reading this. ring. 

 

I have noticed that you get easily thrown out of the saddle with your new symptoms. I just wanted to share few thoughts I go through if something happens that I can not explain. 

 

1. Ask yourself question "Did I feel this symptom before I start taking this medication?" If the answer is NO it is most likely your body is healing. If you are not sure and it is a concern for you check with a professional to rule out any other issues. 

 

Here I would like to let you know that I have had my full heart checked 3 x this year as I am suffering (beside others) from a strong heart palpitation  ( high heart rate) and chest pain. Sometimes it feels like my heart just wants to escape from my chest.  I usually can take pain and even though I don't like mental symptoms when it comes to vital organs playing up I am concerned. MY GP is already tired running the same tests but it makes me feel better knowing my results are OK. 

 

2. Staying in WATER and deep breathing. Practice every day breathing it is the most natural remedy for your stressed mind. If medicine is not an option your breathing is always there. 

I underestimated this super simple exercise as being too basic even though I was reminded by my psychologist repeatedly. Now, first thing I face any challenging symptom I try to correct my breathing. Simply try to take deep breath 5 x and count to 5 with every inhale and exhale. do it as many times as you can during the day. What it does it lowers stress and calms your NS. Doing it once is like a drop in a bucket. Doing it 5x day for 365 days - now we are talking!  

 

3. Keeping a journal of your symptoms daily - I have mentioned this one before but if you want to know how you are doing and what symptoms are coming and going you need to measure it. I have iPhone and i use native app Notes where i have almost every day of my journey recorded. It takes 2 min to summarize your day and give it a good / bad/excellent mark. 

You can look back and see patterns of your symptoms and how you are reacting to weather changes, sleeping patterns and food/drinks you are consuming. 

As well you have place where you can talk to yourself and reflect. Many times we are feeling bad and we overdramatize the situation and panic (avoid) but then I look at my journal and I can see it is only been 2-3 days and before I was good for 2 weeks etc. Does it calm your NS  You bet! 

 

4. Your recovery is not linear - Many people believe that the recovery should be linear like with a flu. Sadly it is a rollercoaster or as I like to call it two steps forward one back. Keep reminding yourself of this so you don't get surprised as much! I know I do all the time but with practice you get better. 

 

5. Count your blessings - As @Iman was saying you are so much ahead of us in the recovery process you should be grateful for that. Even if it doesn't feel like it. Your wife partner is on your side ( I wasn't so lucky). Just make a list and re write it every day or as needed. I always think of my uncle (very rich man) got Parkinson and he is a shadow of the man I knew. However he fights and believes he will get better! Dreamer? I don't know but it keeps me centered. One of our last conversation I was complaining about something and he said tell me what is bothering you and in that moment I have realized that it is nothing compare to what he is going through. That was a lesson I will remember for the rest of my life! 

 

I hope this helps a little  

 

@Iman 4mg Congratulations! Keep at it - your progress gives me hope! 

 

@Iman 

@Tranquilpeace

 

I wanted to  wish you both a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year 2023!

 

2022 has been a year of a lot of learning for all of us and we did well. Lets hope to continue the journey together in 2023! 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

@ADWarrior

Good morning, I appreciate you're advice and trust me I follow all of it both you and @Imanfrom A-Z

 

It helps greatly, of these things are things I haven't ever really had to face or deal with or over come in my life before the medication. I think that's why I freak out with onset of a sudden new or different symptom. Probably part of the panick and out of control amygdala. Trying to learn to control and ride with it when it happens. But your guys coping skills tools and advice I take yo heart and practice constantly.

 

I have been practicing sessions of 2bl breathing. Where you feel your lungs as much as you can and then take an extra breath before releasing. It feels incredible on the CNS

 

The non linear healing is something my wife has a hard time understanding vs me. Mostly cause she was on a cocktail for a very long time and had her issues (still does, especially muscle wasting!) But the mental distress wasn't a symptom that she really dealt with the way that we have here in terms of the intrusive thoughts. So that is an aspect I have had to show her on here and teach her. I was very lucky and very blessed God gave me her of all people to experience this horror show with otherwise I don't think I would be as lucky as I was. But I can't even blame her when she heard the the things and imagery my mind was burning with at initial onset thought the first couple months (I still do suffer from them) just not same intensity or vividness and now they do come more from the fear of when I had them initially as well as lately I get them from guilt. Like when I see my wife laughing and looking at me. Or my daughter's beautiful smile as she looks at me with utter admiration. The thoughts slam in cause of how guilty I feel for their existence and how nasty I feel for them to even enter my head. Which I do know about guilt and emotion but that's just one of the triggers for me now

I come to you guys here and it helps me relax before I run to a Dr. Reason being is I am honestly pretty scared of that aspect of our system now. And can't help but wonder how many people are goofed up mentally because of their medications or at least worsened from them. And that's a thing that freaks me out

 

Latelynow when a wave is coming because just before the wave will be a horrible onset of awful vivid nightmares that are just **** to be honest 🤣

 

and I count my blessings greatly everyday, one thing I struggle with a lot is seeing how bad some people are with their mental health and how out of control they are. This is because my field I deal with this on a daily basis. See the Psychology wards and the patients. It just gets scary to see these people cause well as we all know it feels very close for us at times. And it's scary to think you loose control of it and hit like a no come back point some of these guys are. Then I remember to tell myself a lot of these people did heavy narcotics and amphetamines alcohol to the point they fried their minds. But still you just see it and freak out a bit. But it keeps me to a point where I thank God I am okay, I found this place and I found you guys.

 

anyways man keep up the good fight!!!!! You got this! And you will make it! If I was able to survive you guys can with no doubt!!!

 

much love always guys, Merry Christmas and happy new year to you both. I hope and pray this next year is a million times better for us

 

 

[Iman]

@Tranquilpeace

 

Hey there my sweet pal. 🙂 always great to hear from you. Christmas vibes are the best, I always love this time of the year as there's a wonderful mix of magic, marvel and love in the air. I wish you and your family the best possible version of life in the year ahead with sweet and pleasant moments and joyful events. 🥳🥳🥳🍻🍻🍻

 

One piece of advice from my years of living with WD and Nori's adverse effects: invest on sleeping much as you can, the more you sleep the more manageable the whole nasty WD thing gets and so will your recovery process. I can't emphasize enough the importance of noontime or afternoon power naps even if they're as brief as quick shut eyes. Believe you me, it gets better with regular practice. Set a side at least an hour of noontime or afternoon nap time for yourself each day and just close your eyes and don't open them no matter what; you may think you're not sleeping but the part of the brain which requires recharging and refreshing does its job and gets recharged and restored. It'd be even better if you don't change your lying position on the bed and lie still on your desired and favorite position with few to no movements; this will be interpreted as sleep by the part of the brain which needs it most and you'll see the accrued benefits by the passage of time. For night-time sleep, I never go without magnesium and a glass of warm glass of chamomile, borage or lemon balm tea along with some tiny amount of saffron. Believe me dude, sleep (even resting with your eyes closed when sleep in its true definition is barely possible) is the key to overcoming this monster. Symptoms keep coming but you'll be robust and strong and will simply let them come and go. 

 

As for the symptoms, I wouldn't list them and empower them if I were you, just let me assure you that the symptoms I AM personally experiencing and going through way outnumber yours, this one I know for a fact. You'll learn how to deal with them, just keep reassuring yourself that your mates are in a way more difficult situation than yours and are yet coping and are alive and kicking.

 

The guys you see coming to psychiatric wards are there beacuase they're unfamiliar with the condition they're dealing with and are simply reaching out for help by trusting the big pharma which isn't the best course of action they're taking. There's NO such thing as going crazy or losing your mind or sanity, it's just panic attacks and utter unfamiliarity with either side effects from the drugs one consumes or the WD thing. You only have to rely on yourself and your soul and of course the mates who are going through the same nasty thing but know how to take the bull by the horn. 

 

Deep breathing through your nose and letting go from your mouth is amazing. You're on the right track. Listen to piano and light music much as you can. Also, spend time on viewing and browsing through beautiful pictures and photos from nature, architecture, literature and the like. I wouldn't be exaggerating if I said I've reaped numerous benefits from crying and letting those chemical and poisonous tears stream down my cheeks. I believe you must have the experience by now and the purging effect which comes with it afterwards, it's odd but amazing, a true building block for your brain's ultimate recovery. You may not notice the benefits at least for a few months but as these turns into a mental habits, you'll gradually see the difference.

Surround yourself with family, friends and the people you love, a messed-up part your brain may begin to mock and undervalue these guidelines but just ignore it and keep practicing them and you'll see the miracle coming; practice and perseverance are the keys here, pal. Always remember whenever you're in the thick of it, that your brain will recover and turn into its best and strongest version one day soon whether you like it or not, this is not something WD has any control over. You're a passionate soul I know for a fact and you'll be healed from this temporary ailment. Take good care and enjoy your holidays much as you can. 😊 🙂🌷🌹⚘️✌️

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Iman]

@ADWarrior

 

Hey there my superhuman mate. What a great feeling to know you have someone you can rely on and trust right next to you on the boat in the middle of this ocean of WD. Your wisdom as well as your all-time cheer-up attitude is a precious source of inspiration and morale for me. Belive me, each time I am in the thick of my waves, I think of you and keep going over your filled-with-valuable-lessons texts and wade through the mud. Your advice to @Tranquilpeacehas new tips and tricks for me to pick up and apply in my fight against the nasty monster of WD. Just wanted to let you know how grateful I am to have someone as strong as you by my side. I wish you and your family the best and loveliest moments in your new-year holidays. A 2023 filled with the most pleasant and peaceful moments and events is my greatest wish for you. Merry Christmas and rock on champ. 🎅 🎄 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

@Iman thank you for always have a voice of reason of calm, confident, reassurance my brother. It makes such a huge difference.

 

This WD beast is a crazy one. I thought I'd be past it by this point for sure but I still have my days where it's hard, a lot of times triggered by the nature of work I am in. So I am learning how to try and cope with that. On a positive the narrative is changing!!

 

One of the lead psychology Drs at the university here had a long productive conversation with me acknowledging all the problems with these meds and medical professions approach of meds stabilize and go. And how wrong the science is now being proven and questioned. So a difference is being made and acknowledged. Slower than what we would like it to but it appears change is on the horizon.

 

Thank you for the wonderful well wishes going into this new year.

 

I hope you and @ADWarrior are kicking this things a**!!

 

God bless you both, I look forward to hearing the progress and strides you both are making!

 

[Tranquilpeace]

Hey fellas wanted to take some time to reach out to y'all and see how you are doing?

@Iman @ADWarrior

 

 

Ive been doing alright, had some solid moments of moving on with life and being almost my old self! But still have bouts or waves. Intrusive thoughts, that bother the hell out of me, no where near as often as before or as terrifying because I now know after so many months that they are nothing. But they still cause quite a bit of distress and anxiety when they come.

 

Also have been having bouts of just pure depression pretty much for no reason. Never had that problem before the good ol nortriptyline but seems to happen now every so often, I assume it's my brain chemistry bouncing around trying to normalize completely again. Also delt with bouts of fear of having mental health illnesses like bipolar and schizophrenia and searching endlessly to calm myself(I recognize this as our anxiety OCD now) and will work past this stage as well.

 

but I had a dream the other night about reaching to check on you guys. I hope you're continuing to win your battle.

 

much love always my friends

 

[Iman]

@Tranquilpeace

Hey there my dearest Tranquilpeace. So sweet of you to inquire after us.

 

I'm doing well with pretty much the same symptoms you just mentioned. They come and go and I merely observe them and myself from above and wait for my brain to eventually do the trick and award me with peace and equilibrium once again.

 

There're times (pretty limited and brief though) that I become symptomless like my old self and there's nothing sweeter than this, I'd wait however long for this to happen and become a regular default for me.

 

I trust the day will come that all of us will overcome this monster and come out victorious with so much light to share with our friends and loved ones. BTW, as for the chemical depression we all experience from either withdrawing from the drug or taking the drug itself, the solution I've found which pretty much relieves much of the unwanted depression is to apply a handful of BLACKSEED OIL on my chest and stomach and massage well until it gets absorbed into my body. It's amazing how nice and accurate this technique works in suppressing depression and uncontrolled sadness. Once again can't emphasize the healing power of only a spoonful of rose water and milk thistle enough.

 

I hope you're holding up well my dude. I'm so delighted and overjoyed that your symptoms are getting less severe and that you're seeing yourself more in control. Better days are yet to come, rest assured. 🌷👍✌️ Take care and stay strong.

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[ADWarrior]

@Tranquilpeace @Iman

 

Hey boys! 

 

I am sorry about my late reply! I was trying to get back to you as soon as I had a second or had something worth reading to say. 

 

My update

The last two months (Jan,Feb) have been the best months I've had since I started taking medication. 90% of my days have been Great to Excellent and I can not believe I feel this way. 

I am able to exercise and do things I have not been able to do for over 4 years! Riding a bicycle, motorcycle, doing heavy gardening and enjoying my life, I feel great. Is it perfect all day every day? Of course NO. I do get days when I can't sleep. I feel my body aches and I do get very fatigued. There is some depression but it is nothing like what it was before. The point is my body is healing. The problem I have is that every day I have to control myself as I can easily overdo it, hence the fatigue. 

 

I am not writing this to brag but to give you the hope that you will feel better. It just takes time. If I get through this month (March) with similar results, I will attempt to cut my sleeping medicine (very slowly). 

 

@Tranquilpeace I hear you loud and clear you are still getting through some unpleasant symptoms and it seems like your brain is playing games with you. Again, rule nr.1 if you did not have these symptoms before, it is just your brain trying to heal itself. Hang in there! 

 

@Iman I am wondering how you progressing with cutting your medicine? I am sorry to hear that it is not there yet, but I have a feeling you have tools to deal with those bad days. 

 

I did wait to write this one as I wasn't sure if it is a big window or if it is an improvement. If I look at my notes I can clearly see that I am better. Only 3 months ago, my heart was trying to jump out of my chest and now I feel more or less stable. However, the war is still not won! There is hope and If I can get better you will as well! 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Iman]

Hey there my strong @ADWarrior

 

I'm just super excited to hear that you're experiencing wonderful days with a full return of your previous legendary self. I'm entirely certain even better days are yet to come in just a few weeks. Your strength and resilience give me the much-needed hope. 👍✌️🙏 you're truly a fearless warrior.

 

As for myself, I'm on 2 mg of water solution Nortriptyline sharp. I've experienced numerous improvements and leaps which I never thought would be possible once I was in the thick of WD and a high dose of Nori. I feel more in control, my blood pressure and heart rate are normal (this has been the case for more than 4 months now; exactly when I hit just below 5 mg) and perhaps most importantly my sleep has been close to standard with at least 6 yo 7 hours each night, some days it even exceeds 9 hours which is wonderful.

 

I, too, have taken up light exercise after 4 years and seem to be holding up smoothly. Waves and symptoms do come and hit hard but they usually last no longer than a few days and as you rightly noted, whenever such symptoms occur out of nowhere and hit you rough, a huge chunk of recovery is in the making and the brain is doing the necessary adjustments to provide you with the vision which suits you and your character best. So, quite predictably, I now welcome symptoms and watch them come and go and when they hit so hard forcing me to burst into tears, I don't deem it as an agony but as an indication that the sun after the storm will shine even brighter than the previous times.

 

The only 24/7 symptom I've been having since day one of taking the Nori poison is the constant tinnitus in my left ear which I've become pretty much accustomed to and have no complaints and griviences about.

 

This whole WD thing has had its own unique virtues; we TCA warriors seem to know how precious an ordinary symptomless life is and will latch onto it with much appreciation and hope once the fight is won. I can't tell you how happy and delighted I am with the news of you doing this wonderful and running your life the way you want. Keep strong and rock on, my champ. 🌷👍✌️🙏😊🤗

 

 

[Tranquilpeace]

Hey there fellas sorry for not getting back right away, I check thus often and had seen your responses but I went through a good 3 week wave that was rough. Full if depression and anxiety attacks. And of course the main demon of mine those intrusive thoughts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am BEYOND STOKED to hear you guys are hitting that sweet spot in recovery!! That is so bada**

 

 

 

I do know and understand that the pattern of healing is what it is and I just have to ride it out. I also believe that cialis causes some issues for me both when I take it inget intrusive thoughts increase which makes sense when you think about what it does to you. And then when j stopped taking it infelt super super low and depressed which has happened a few times when I go without it so I attribute it to the cialis mixed with the WD.

 

 

 

Important thing is I get more good days than bad now and my emotions come for longer periods of time

 

 

 

Although I did go through an anxiety and fear of I was bipolar just another wonderful side effect of the length of withdrawal I think.

 

 

 

And I know after @ADWarriors guidance about not having these issues before that this is merely another bump in the road on the way to recovery. It also doesn't help that nori destroyed my hormone balance as I have now learned my testosterone levels have been in the dump after cessation!! 

 

 

So I will begin treatment for that and I believe it should really help with the depression and anxiety as low test is known to really affect those two things.

 

 

 

I'm proud of you guys man!! It's so refreshing to hear your guys are pulling through this beast. Like breathing deep menthol into the lungs and that amazing release on exhale 

 

I'm getting there too boys and I feel like a nice window is starting to approach again

 

I can't wait until we are all out of the windows and waves. Slowly but surely we will make it

 

God's blessings and much love always boys

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ADWarrior]

Hi my dear friends warriors! 

 

I am sorry about my late reply to all your feedbacks as I was busy enjoying life and as you can imagine time can fly really quickly. 

 

@Iman

I am absolutely thrilled to hear about your progress and I almost jumped of my seat reading how well you are doing with your tapper. I assume you are bellow 1.8 mg which must be an amazing feeling. Please keep it up! Your success always gives me hope  

 

@Tranquilpeace

I hope you are feeling better and your good days are getting longer and longer. Please let us know. I am hoping for some positive news. 

 

 

On another note. I have been feeling confident in myself so I went to dentist and she discovered 5 cavities. I did some research and found out that dry mouth and dental problems are common with taking AD. 

I went for my first small operation where I went under local anaesthesia and everything was OK. I have of course checked with the dentist and my psychologist if it is safe. They assured me it should be OK. 

 

However the second operation on 2 x tooth needed more sedation (local) only but after I have came home I start feeling weird knowing it has something to do with my psych meds. Again did some research and found that AD can have a negative reaction with dental aesthetics but it is rare. It is my second day and I still feel uneasy ( foggy  brain, anxiety, irritation, fatigue, not feeling like doing anything just staying in bed - which is not like me). I am wondering if you had any similar experience? 

 

From what I have researched:

It is generally accepted that it is safe to administer anesthetics to patients on antidepressants; however, the anesthesia provider must be aware of the risk of potential drug–drug interactions

serotonin syndrome. Serotonin toxicity is a drug-induced condition caused by too much serotonin in synapses in the brain. Cases requiring hospitalization are rare, and mild cases caused by serotonin-mediated side effects are unlikely to be fatal. Patients present with a combination of neuromuscular, autonomic, and mental status symptoms.

 

Thank you and as always stay strong!  

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Iman]

Hey there dear @ADWarrior

 

You should forgive me for my extremely late reply. I'm not quite sure why I didn't get the notification for you addressing me in ur post, I just dropped by in your page to check if there's any update on how you're doing and I came across the post you mentioned me in. Please don't put it down to my negligence and any form of disrespect as I'm typing this reply immediately after I finished going through your post.

 

I'm more than overjoyed to hear you're actually enjoying life, this is one big hell of a recovery sign and is an undeniable proof than you're on your path to ultimate recovery and feeling your old self (maybe even a better more enhanced version) once again. Your brain seems to be a master at keeping things in balance and rewarding you with the much-needed homeostasis. Hats off to your brain for this enormous achievement. 👍👏✌️

 

As for your dental operation, local anesthesia is widely notorious for its ability to worsen symptoms of WD and bringing dormant ones to surface. The chief culprit here is the adrenaline as one of the major constituents of local anesthesia especially lidocaine. I've read numerous accounts of our fellow sufferers experiencing re-emergence of some of their nastiest symptoms right after a dental operation where sedation was imposed by lidocaine. The esteemed moderators in SA recommend the use of Carbocaine aka Mepivacaine as the desired choice of local anesthesia for dental operations as it lacks the activating and notorious Adrenaline which all of us WD sufferers have more than enough in our body. Good news is that the effects of lidocaine in resurfacing WD symptoms are short-lived and tend to lose potency and fade away in a few days. I believe by now you must have returned to your pre-operation state and feeling up and about once again.

 

I hope you're in a good place with your taper of the God-awful Nori. I've just hit 0.9 mg and doing relatively OK. The final cuts are a little bit more wavy and tricky but nothing I can't deal with. Once I hit 1 mg, some harsh gastrointestinal symtoms came up head-on with constant bloating, muscle spasm and awful acid reflux. I kept the mess under control using Famotidine 40 mg after my main meals as well as some peppermint extract. It took my stomach almost 10 days to return to normal and I am entirely content that it did. Things could have been way worse so I'm infinitely grateful and thank God for that. I hope I hear good news from your side soon enough. Keep it up champ. 🌹🌷👍👏

[ADWarrior]

Hi my dear friend @Iman

 

Thank you so much for your reply ! Please do not apologize  for the late reply.  It is great that you keep checking my post and I sincerely appreciate you are sharing your knowledge.

 

On 5/12/2023 at 8:09 AM, Iman said:

I'm not quite sure why I didn't get the notification for you addressing me in ur post,

It is weird you are not getting notifications. I will include your name a few times as well quote you to see if it works this time. Please let me know. 

 

I was not aware Lidocaine was a problem. The truth is that I have not been the same since and am struggling with many symptoms I thought were in the past already. I did a blood test to check the level of Lidocaine and, of course, it was negligible, so no excuses there.

It has got so bad that I am thinking about whether I am not suffering from interwithdrawal from my benzodiazepine medication. As mentioned, I am recording every day, so I know that I had only a few bad days in the first 3-4 months of this year, but since the dental work  I am back to more bad days than good days since the end of April 2023.

 

What are the main symptoms: 

- anxiety attacks with hyperventilation 

- shakingness 

- internal tension

- light irritability

- sometimes when interacting with people I feel tense 

- foggy brain 

- body aches 

- tiredness / fatigue

 

The weird thing is that I have days when I am absolutely fine and then days when I feel bad in the afternoon only and back to OK in the evening. I can not make sense of it. I am not sure what it is but will keep digging as we all do when we need answers.  If, by any chance, you can think of something, please let me know. 

 

On 5/12/2023 at 8:09 AM, Iman said:

I've just hit 0.9 mg and doing relatively OK

 

@Iman  This is absolutely amazing and I am sooo proud of you! I am sure it is not a walk in the park, but it sounds like you can almost touch the finish line.  As per the gastrointestinal symptoms, I do get those out of nowhere but it usually goes away by itself. It does add to the stress, but again, I will take any physical symptoms over the mental ones. How about you? Just keep doing what you are doing as it really makes me happy to hear that you are so close to saying good bye to this poison. 

 

As always, thank you for your support. It is very much appreciated. 

 

 

 

 

[Iman]

Hey there my dearest @ADWarrior

Hope you're doing fine and moving towards feeling great and awesome. 😊😊

 

Quite thankfully, I received an exclusive notification this time as well as a copy of it in my emailbox. Well, from what I see in the way you're recounting your situation in the past few weeks, I gather that that the dental operation where lidocaine was used several times to render the whole dental procedure relatively pain-free, has triggered an unpleasant wave in you. The amount is not usually the issue as only a tiny bit is enough to provoke our highly sensitized and restless nervous system to go into overreaction. The symptoms are not the side effects of lidocaine but rather engendered by the overreaction of your system, I believe. Whatever the culprit is, our job is to keep the symptoms at bay and under control as much as possible to the point they hardly interfere with our functionality which is of utmost importance to each and every one of us. This is what I've been constantly dealing with, with  the symptoms either present all in one pack during my harshest days or randomly showing up when in WD-normal status.

 

I've devised some personal techniques and methods for each symptom and apply them whenever the symptoms hit; In your case the ones which you've listed above are amongst the most common and typical symptoms many of us go through during WD days. And now what I do for each one of these symptoms to mitigate the blow are as follows:

 

1. Anxiety attacks with hyperventilation AKA panic attacks:

Aside from deep breathing and meditation which keep the panic attack manifestations under a relatively good amount of control in the long run, we'd need more practical and easy-go-to solutions to suppress the devouring monster when it attacks. In such situations when I need a quick fix, I apply some Vicks (main ingredients being camphor, eucalyptus oil, menthol and thymol) over my already zapping forehead, head and neck. This method is incredible and it cuts down the intensity of panic attacks several folds. You can also apply some ice cubes on the mentioned areas of your head. I also make sure to include dark chocolate in my diet as it mysteriously reduces the incidence of panic attacks in the short-term. 

 

2. For fatigue and tiredness I keep stretching exercises religiously going in my daily routine. Acupuncture and acupressure are musts for me at least twice a month. The incredible lemon and honey in a lukewarm glass of water is another method for me to combat CFS. Last but not least is applying CBD cream on my forehead, wrists and back of my neck (this one is my favorite as it acts pretty fast and grants me a remarkable level of energy).

 

3. Body aches: massaging the painful body parts with blackseed oil and swallowing a tiny bit of Advil(1/8 of a full tablet after lunch and dinner) are my all-time go-to solutions for this symptom.

 

4. Light irritability: putting some ice cubes in a clean plastic bag and leaving it rested on my closed eyes for a few minutes does the trick to a great extent here.

 

WD is a monster and we need to keep it under as much control as possible until its biggest enemy TIME eventually brings its existence to and end once and for all.

 

I wish you the best of all life can offer dear pal. I'm in the middle of a huge wave cutting from 0.8 to 0.7 but am managing it to the best of my ability. The final cuts have proven a bit trickier but nothing I cannot eventually overcome. Take care and shine on. 🌷🌹⚘️✌️

[ADWarrior]

Hi my dear @Iman

 

On 5/27/2023 at 7:22 AM, Iman said:

Quite thankfully, I received an exclusive notification this time as well as a copy of it in my emailbox.

Thank you so much for letting me know that you have received my notification and for all your wonderful suggestions! You are a champion! 

 

On 5/27/2023 at 7:22 AM, Iman said:

The symptoms are not the side effects of lidocaine but rather engendered by the overreaction of your system, I believe.

I am sorry about my late reply but, as you had predicted, I have started feeling better from one day to another, like day and night. It did not only take a couple of days for the Lidocaine to wear off but for my NS to stabilise from the shock while recovering. More than a month. 

 

As per all your wonderful suggestions, I am in owe on how far you've got in managing every single symptom.

 

1. Anxiety

As you suggested, I have been keeping a strong Respiratory blend oil handy and applying it onto my forehand and sniffing every time I feel short of breath and it is working. Also, I have had a strong craving for chocolate, so I did not hold back. 

 

2. Fatigue 

Light yoga for 15 min and warm a large cup of water with lemon every day 

 

3. A warm bath for me does the job, but I agree massage would help.

 

4. Light irritability - the ice is a new one and will have to give it a go. It usually gets me when I am outside with kids or in other stressful environments. 

 

What I am trying to say is that I am super grateful of sharing all these suggestions and am as well glad that I have been making some of them already. I will try the rest as well! 

 

What I have realised is again how vulnerable we get when a sudden bad wave hits us and how precious good days are. Although I don't want to admit it, but it is a good way to put myself back in a grateful state.

 

Another thing worth mentioning when going through these waves is the danger of suddenly feeling great. I know it might sound crazy, but it comes with its own problems. I notice that I tend to push myself in whatever I am doing as I have not been able to do so many activities for such a long time. I have to keep reminding myself to take it easy and slow down, which can be extremely difficult to do.

 

One of many examples would be a motorcycle ride far away from home feeling great, so I decided to double the distance, extending my ride from 3.5h to 7h. Then it got really hot, 30C + and I started getting tired. Negative thoughts start creeping in and I start doubting if I can make it all the way home. Luckily I did, but considering that I could not even ride 2 weeks ago, this was my Mt Everest. I know it sounds like a good thing to have these abilities, but I have to learn how to walk before I can run. 

 

As per your progress, I couldn't be happier for you and I am amazed how well you manage. I am just wondering if it is getting tougher as the doses get smaller or is it similar with every cut? 

 

Please take care of yourself. I am always thinking of you and how you are doing. 

 

@Iman

 

 

 

[PortugueseSea]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:58 AM, ADWarrior said:

You are either in WATER or FUEL/GAS response to events, thoughts, circumstance or challenges. Train yourself to stay in WATER as much as possible to calm and heal your Nervous system. The FUEL does the opposite! 

Hello also from Japan, from Kansai to be precise! This idea sounds brilliant. My worse problem by far has been that, except when asleep, I always feel wired and thus I am in a state of constant nervousness. It goes without saying that this puts immense stress on body and mind. I have tried addressing this in many ways but have not been successful. Recently, I have had some windows where this has diminished.

 

Was great reading through your experience, I have learned a lot!

 

[ADWarrior]

Hi @PortugueseSea

 

Thank you for popping by. I am sorry to hear about your suffering. Like you, many of us got onto this train because of poor choices of our doctors. I did read your story but I am not familiar with any of the medication you are taking. However, the symptoms I can rely to. 

 

I see you have been fighting a lot and still have not been able to reach a stable state. The stress you are referring to is your body healing while you need to function. 

 

I have noticed you are taking benzo to sleep. I am as well and it helps me to have a good sleep with some bad dreams and only a few nights a month when I can't fall asleep. However, these will be the next to start cutting. I am not looking forward to the process, but it has to be done. Just something to be aware if you decide to keep taking the sleeping benzo. You will have to wear that out as well, unfortunately. According to the Ashton manual, you can help with benzo during antidepressants WD. 

 

I am impressed with how you can keep your job and handle your family. The job doesn't bother me, but I have 2 kids and I want to be there while they are growing up. It is frustrating if I can not but accept that it goes with the recovery. We can only do what we can. 

 

Please don't hesitate to reach out if you need anything, as we are in Japan we might be able to deal with things others might not understand. As per doctor search for other if available. Somebody who will work with you and speak English. It took me a while to find one. 

 

Keep your head up and do what you need to to put yourself into WATER as much as you can and be gentle to yourself. During recovery, we forget that we need love and kindness to ourselves as well. 

 

[PortugueseSea]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:21 PM, ADWarrior said:

I see you have been fighting a lot and still have not been able to reach a stable state. The stress you are referring to is your body healing while you need to function. 

Absolutely right, I need to give it the right stability. I think I have settled on a supplement regimen that helps. Now, I just need to stay off stimulants and alcohol and... wait while doing the healthiest life ever.

 

 

On 6/9/2023 at 1:21 PM, ADWarrior said:

I have noticed you are taking benzo to sleep.

Fortunately, when I did take a benzo was when my agitation was completely unbearable. Last time I took one was likely 8 months ago. I had the option of getting on it but decided not to. That was likely the right call, I know a benzo could have spared me a lot of suffering but, in the end, it would be kicking the can down the road.

 

On 6/9/2023 at 1:21 PM, ADWarrior said:

I am impressed with how you can keep your job and handle your family. The job doesn't bother me, but I have 2 kids and I want to be there while they are growing up. It is frustrating if I can not but accept that it goes with the recovery. We can only do what we can. 

 

I couldn't relate to this more. Every time I look at my son I feel joy, hope and... immense frustration. I imagine what would be to be there for him WITHOUT being in constant suffering. And yet, we can only do what we can, we are there for our children. Ultimately, they are a healing force in our lives.

 

We will see it through.

Yeah, if there is anything I can do for you let me know. I would love to be of assistance! WATER, I will keep that in mind!!

 

Bless you!

[Tranquilpeace]

Hello fellas!!! 

 

I deeply deeply apologize for not responding over the past few months!!! Life got crazy hectic had another beautiful son, financial struggles like 99 percent of the world, and new job etc.

 

It is no excuse because I care about you guys, and truly @Iman @ADWarrior you guys helped me in literally the darkest most horrifying time of my entire existence. Without you both only God knows where I would be.

 

 

I am proud and happy for both of you in reviewing your recovery over the past few months and your journey!! I see there are still challenges and hard moments but what a beautiful thing to see you all even further than before and almost rid of this toxic poison that attempts to corrupt our minds and OUR SOULS.

 

I can't say that I am finally over the AD kick. But I am damn close and one million times further than I was or ever could see during the onset of the WD. 

 

I was deteriorate to become my normal self. But I am a very religious spiritual man and I believe in Christ. He brought me to you all in the time of my greatest need and I hope visa versa. The WD opened my mind and soul to a spiritual battle I always knew was real but never had to actually truly battle until experiencing this. Through my experience it opened doors and battles we are not mean to have to fight. 

 

And in the end has lead to very powerful knew understanding I was faced with today after watching Noah and reading some Bible scripture. And the acknowledgment of evil being in all of us. But our free will and ability to choose good over evil is key.

 

And no matter how harsh this medication suppressed our ability to ignore the evil it's ability to exacerbate evil over good in our minds. Look where we stand!! We have fought and battled a fight literally with our lives heart and souls and stake and have overcome it.

 

And we continue to. And it is a fight by the grace of God we will win!

 

I think about and pray about you both very very often. Though we are merely knowing eachother from 100s of miles away only through the internet I feel greatly for you both. And appreciate you beyond words expression.

 

 

As for me and my symptoms man they are further and further apart but it pains me to tell you that there are STILL days and nights that symptoms hit. Intrusive thoughts anxiety dereliction etc. 

 

They may not last as long but they still can get intense for me as it is so shocking to the conscience..but I as my CNS has healed I have been better able to dissmiss them away as a normal person does in their daily lives. Sometimes easier than others but as our CNS heals it gets much easier for the mind to function normally. Which has been a relief.

 

As for the physical side effects we have discussed our tools we have shared are still what get me through those moments. 

 

I am happy to say I can see the light and believe I am close!! To give hope to those who go through this you can do it, it gets better, maybe an inch at a time but it does. Even after only 6 weeks of use, it has a very long lasting affect. But it does get better. And will get better and you are not alone. We have been doing this we have been exactly where you are. We now stand miles and miles better than when it started. Slowly but surely the sun shall shine no matter how many storms you must face. In those dark times listening to the Bible really really helped me, even to just rest. No matter what your will power and free choice is what matters. The medicine feeds your mind to a path you are not meant to be. And that path is NOT THE REAL YOU. The real you will shine through, you just have to will it.

 

And know we are here for you.

 

Much love always boys!! I will be looking for your responses and will respond MUCH MUCH QUICKER. I promise!!

 

I wish incould be more detailed but life is calling! 

 

Love yall!

[Iman]

Hey there my amazing fellas

@ADWarrior @Tranquilpeace @PortugueseSea

 

What an indescribable joy to see you all here. Can't put into words the incredibly positive energy and vibe I'm getting from reading your words and the wisdom oozing out from your experiences.

 

My marvelous @ADWarrior, I'm more than delighted and pleased to hear you're doing well and applying the right coping skills and strategies. As you rightly mentioned, we're in such a vulnerable and unpredictable situation that even the most basic of physical exercises can come with their costs WD-wise. I just couldn't agree more with what you rightly touched upon concerning the emergence of suddenly feeling great and days with little to zero symptoms. It's like you all of a sudden become the highly capable champ you were pre-medication with almost all of your abilities unlocked and you gradually grow confident and say to yourself this is it my real "me" and it IS actually the real YOU but only a glimpse orabetter say a sample of what you're about to become when this is all over. However, this sudden feeling of greatness is usually proceeded by a tough wave and once again you feel you have to start from the scratch. The good news here is this whole process  is indicative of the pattern of recovery your brain is going through. The tip gradually grows for windows and against waves. You just have to make sure not to push it too hard on yourself or you'd risk evoking an unwelcome wave. You should never forget that WD is always sneaking up on you until you're completely drug-free. I get this feeling from your words that you're well on the right track and are just going in the right direction. Keep it up and you'll be awestruck at how capable your brain is in bringing you back to your best self. As for whether the final cuts yield in more difficulty and harsher waves and symptoms, I have to tell you that I've noticed a new pattern here. These last few cuts result in waves in a stronger more swift manner but the good news is the intensity is much less and yet better is the length which is brief and lasts merely 2 to 4 days(I've just hit 0.3 mg BTW). This is a whole lot better and more manageable than the lengthy waves I would experience at higher doses and tapers. So better days are yet to come for you, my brilliant adwarrior. ✌️⚘️👍🌹

 

Dear @PortugueseSeathe regimen you're on seems to be doing the trick in getting you through the storm of WD with much less pain and suffering. Mirtazepine aka Remeron is the nastiest of all AD drugs, a notorious tetracyclic antidepressant. I read from your thread that you've successfully weaned yourself off of it and this is awesome and even miraculous to say the least. Hats off to you for this tremendous achievement. 👏👏👏 now that you're almost off all poisonous antidepressant drugs, you'll have to adjust yourself to the game of patience. I'm not there yet myself but I've read almost all the success stories here on this website as well as plenty of others and they all have one thing in common and that is the 6 to 8 months post-zero mg as the final stage of full recovery where windows are almost predominant and waves almost entirely done for and vanish for good. I believe you're close to that life-altering point but should also know that the above period is not symptom-free and you are likely to experience the heaviest onset of waves before you're rewarded with the peace and joy of drug-free and thus symptom-free life. So just hang in there and apply as many self-soothing techniques and strategies as you can to mitigate the harshness and intensity of the waves. Stay strong and keep it up. ⚘️✌️🌹

 

And finally my loveliest@Tranquilpeace. It's just amazing to hear that you're doing a million times better than the last time you dropped us a line or two. As you noted quite rightly and accurately, God has actually awarded us a blessing in disguise with this WD thing. He's proving to us that we are carrying both heaven and hell, both good and evil within us. It's our unique job to distinguish between these 2 poles and it'll be our ultimate choice which to cling to. The constant incessant intrusive thoughts keep playing out loud in our brain and do their best to convince us that the world is dismal and bleak. And now the ultimate beauty is in the fact that we become utterly disturbed by these evil thoughts, why? Because they're opposite to what we truly are and our soul keeps rejecting them as true and as much as it is painful and distressing, it's still a wonderfully beautiful phenomenon. The light within our souls is alive and ablaze even if  shrouded under the clouds of the temporarily dominant voice of evil in our drug-affected physical brain. Our job here is to train our soul not to be sensitive and guarded to the constantly nagging voice of evil and let it pass and fade away by itself. My dear @Tranquilpeace you're a wonderful human being and I'm so proud of you. Your resilience and passion is truly admirable and mark my words, you're only inches away from full recovery and total farewell to WD and its tough days. You deserve to embrace light and buoyancy in your life. The whole WD thing was a crucially important lesson ordained by God you had to learn and put into good use for the rest of your fruitful and bright life. Shine on and stay gold. ✌️⚘️👍🌹

[PortugueseSea]

On 6/14/2023 at 7:46 AM, Iman said:

I believe you're close to that life-altering point but should also know that the above period is not symptom-free and you are likely to experience the heaviest onset of waves before you're rewarded with the peace and joy of drug-free and thus symptom-free life. So just hang in there and apply as many self-soothing techniques and strategies as you can to mitigate the harshness and intensity of the waves. Stay strong and keep it up.

Thanks for the hopeful words and good advice. I am working on myself and adjusting my lifestyle to make things as smooth as possible!

I still need to improve my sleep and water intake. As for the suffering, for the better or for the worse I have gotten used to it. I believe you are correct, one more year and I should be mostly off the hook. Let us hope it is so. 😃