Therapy in the time of Covid - do you think this is ok?

[Happy2Heal]

Just a quick question, I am confused by something:

I wanted CBT therapy to deal with some issues due to PTSD, so I found a therapist who does "telehealth" visits. Now I don't have a camera on my computer so we do simple phone calls instead.

 

During my appt time, she is outside walking in her neighborhood. I can hear her stop to talk to people, pet a dog, and I hear the cars going by. She expressed frustration because she said she had "noise cancelling headphones" so I shouldn't be able to hear all this

 

I told her it was very distracting. Not to mention, I don't know how to feel about someone who is doing other things when we're supposed to be "in session". I know if I were in a physical office with a therapist, they might sometimes take another call, although they'd apologize and it would be an emergency sort of thing, they might answer the door, but again, that would be the exception and not the rule and they'd apologize. At least that's been my experience.

 

I have even asked therapists on nice days, if they would like to go outside and take a walk during the session but they say that's not allowed for various reasons. But I feel bad because sometimes they complain about being stuck in the office all day when the weather is nice

 

 

How would you feel if your therapist was out walking in their neighborhood during your session?
Obviously it bothers me or I wouldn't ask but I don't know if maybe I am being unfair...?

I find it rude and disrespectful.

 

I am right to feel this way?

 

 

[ChessieCat]

48 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

she said she had "noise cancelling headphones" so I shouldn't be able to hear all this

 

The headphones are for her ears.  The noise you hear is coming from the microphone which is NOT noise cancelling.

 

49 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

How would you feel if your therapist was out walking in their neighborhood during your session?
Obviously it bothers me or I wouldn't ask but I don't know if maybe I am being unfair...?

I find it rude and disrespectful.

 

I am right to feel this way?

 

It is totally unacceptable.

[Carmie]

1 hour ago, Happy2Heal said:

Just a quick question, I am confused by something:

I wanted CBT therapy to deal with some issues due to PTSD, so I found a therapist who does "telehealth" visits. Now I don't have a camera on my computer so we do simple phone calls instead.

 

During my appt time, she is outside walking in her neighborhood. I can hear her stop to talk to people, pet a dog, and I hear the cars going by. She expressed frustration because she said she had "noise cancelling headphones" so I shouldn't be able to hear all this

 

I told her it was very distracting. Not to mention, I don't know how to feel about someone who is doing other things when we're supposed to be "in session". I know if I were in a physical office with a therapist, they might sometimes take another call, although they'd apologize and it would be an emergency sort of thing, they might answer the door, but again, that would be the exception and not the rule and they'd apologize. At least that's been my experience.

 

I have even asked therapists on nice days, if they would like to go outside and take a walk during the session but they say that's not allowed for various reasons. But I feel bad because sometimes they complain about being stuck in the office all day when the weather is nice

 

 

How would you feel if your therapist was out walking in their neighborhood during your session?
Obviously it bothers me or I wouldn't ask but I don't know if maybe I am being unfair...?

I find it rude and disrespectful.

 

I am right to feel this way?

 

 

That’s definitely not okay Happy2Heal, 

 

I would be changing therapists. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

[Happy2Heal]

10 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

The headphones are for her ears.  The noise you hear is coming from the microphone which is NOT noise cancelling.

that's what I thought! but I'm somewhat technologically challenged so I doubted myself on that.

 

thank you for your input. So far it's been 100%  the opinion of everyone I've asked that what she is doing is unacceptable

 

it really stinks because I have no other option. my insurance has the lowest reimbursement rate for all services so no other therapist has been willing to see me. I've contacted dozens and dozens, most never even bothered to reply or return my call. 😕  But at this point I think I'm better off with no one.

 

It makes me so angry, I just want to hang up on her. She knows I don't like it, so I start thinking, this is her way or dumping me as a client without having to say she wants to, get me to do it by being purposely disrespectful, I don't know

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

2 minutes ago, Carmie said:

That’s definitely not okay Happy2Heal, 

 

I would be changing therapists. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

thanks Camie

 

well I've likely got no other options for now, I'll go it alone (see reply to Chessiecat above for explanation of lack of options)

 

oh well. I got stuff to do anyway LOL

[manymoretodays]

Eventually......I expect......I'll morph/change to the point of being my own therapist, or even psychologist.

I've been there before.  I kind of like the more impersonal, and confidential meetings though right now.  As opposed to just working with a friend, or talking to one.

 

And hey H2H, I've had the somewhat the same feeling about telehealth, especially of the Zoom, or with camera variety.  I can't always do the platform that a provider offers. 

I spent over a half hour, reassuring my GP, for example, that my insurance would cover a purely telephone visit during co-vid. 

They don't all use Zoom, and I am really burnt out on screens now. 

Plus my technology doesn't support much "telehealth" other than Zoom, or phone calls.

 

I'd much prefer human to human, at a distance.....or with masks now.......for just about anything.  Covid pandemic burn out I guess. 

 

Idk if that' s even on topic anymore.

 

LOL.  Best.  L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by manymoretodays

[Carmie]

2 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

thanks Camie

 

well I've likely got no other options for now, I'll go it alone (see reply to Chessiecat above for explanation of lack of options)

 

oh well. I got stuff to do anyway LOL

Just read what you wrote to CC, I’m so sorry you have no other options. Therapists are supposed to be helping you, not making you frustrated and angry. You said you feel like hanging up on her, do it!😂😂

[Happy2Heal]

6 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

They don't all use Zoom, and I am really burnt out on screens now.  I'd much prefer human to human, at a distance.....or with masks. 

 

Idk if that' s even on topic anymore.

oh def on topic!! 

I hate being tethered to a screen of any kind (in this case I use google voice with a headset as my "phone" so I'm trapped by a 20 inch cord, I hate it!)

and she's out walking the 'hood, where I'd like to be myself!

 

I am finding that really, the relationship that i need to improve is the one with myself and maybe I am better off doing that by myself.

I need to learn to be kinder to myself.

 

I always thought that was selfish but now i see that I can't really treat others any better than I treat myself, or more accurately: I do treat them better and then resent the fact that "no one" treats me that way (and what I really mean by that is, *I* don't treat myself that good!!) 

 

it's shocking how poorly I treat myself.

I guess we all do that to a certain extent, but wow I am just mean and so unforgiving of myself

 

I think my goal for before i turn 66 is to learn to at least like myself a little bit- at least some of the time!! 

 

thanks for your input, much appreciated ❤️

 

[Happy2Heal]

10 minutes ago, Carmie said:

Just read what you wrote to CC, I’m so sorry you have no other options. Therapists are supposed to be helping you, not making you frustrated and angry. You said you feel like hanging up on her, do it!😂😂

I did one time but by accident, I use google voice to call and the call was dropped

but yeh if she does it again, I had planned to just hang up. 

 

but on second thought, Do I even want to bother calling her again at all?  she's not been helping, she's just someone to talk to if I'm stuck in the house and every one else is busy LOL

 

yeh it's stupid to continue

[Colonial]

Everyone is under a lot of stress this year, including therapists who are dealing with a much greater emotional toll from a more than usual roll call of very compromised individuals from the pandemic. Their dealing with the same stressors in real time as everyone else and their mental health is being tried as well.  That being said, I would cut one a break to the point of them sitting outside or walking IF they were in a more solitary environment where they weren't in a position to be running into other people, petting dogs, being disengaged or having a phone call on speaker. But If you have lower tier insurance, as we all know, we get what we pay for, and if people are willing to work for little to nothing, one probably does so for 1 of 2 reasons.  Their either lower functioning in their own way or they are of a really good heart and over booking themselves to help as many people as possible.

 

Part of "Surviving" very trying times as a society is to know, when in a communal crisis, what things we have to loosen the expectations on a little and cut people some slack and where we actually need to tighten them.  Both are necessary.  Things that one used to be able to let side need more strict attention and in other areas where protocols were strict it is no longer realistic to keep such tight rules.  Finding what needs to be given more attention and what to loosen up about is touch and go for everyone. If it's not helping, it may be more morally correct to stop taking up her time so she can spend more time on her own mental health.  She may not want to say "No" but she may be overwhelmed herself. 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Colonial

[ChessieCat]

18 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

but on second thought, Do I even want to bother calling her again at all?  she's not been helping, she's just someone to talk to if I'm stuck in the house and every one else is busy LOL

 

yeh it's stupid to continue

 

Yes I don't think it is good for you to continue with this.  It's not helping you the way you need.

 

It's interesting that she doesn't want to meet up in person outside.  It is fact that she is not allowed to or just her decision.     Is it fact that she is not allowed to or just her decision?

 

Either way, she is not taking your needs into consideration, especially when you have asked/spoken to her about the issues.  If she wanted to do the best for you she would be willing to make the changes.

 

And it doesn't really matter if she is trying to get rid of you.  Either way, it's not helping you which is what her job is, regardless of how busy she is and what she gets paid.

 

And maybe you are now at the stage where you can help yourself more.

 

It's good that you are not allowing this to continue.  You need to look after yourself and this current issue shows that you are starting to do that.  Good on you!

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by ChessieCat
mode correction

[Happy2Heal]

36 minutes ago, Colonial said:

If it's not helping, it may be more morally correct to stop taking up her time so she can spend more time on her own mental health.  She may not want to say "No" but she may be overwhelmed herself. 

thanks for your input @Colonial

 

Yes I know with crappy insurance (medicaid) I get the bottom of the barrel (OR occasionally not, if I am going thru a large organization where they are paid a salary and not in business for themselves) 

but even then, there's some minimum standards.

I knew instantly that she was not a very good therapist but at least for the most part she's not been unkind (she really seems to think she's being kind by using noise cancelling headphones)

No I'm def not taking up too much of her time, she's been taking up too much of MINE LOL I keep asking to only have one appt per month and have been more than willing to take cancellations and squeeze it in last minute to help her out but she wants to do once a week.  She takes time off frequently and doesn't appear to need the income so much as wants it, and wants it to be easy, that's my take on it, anyway. And you can't get an easier pt than me LOL

 

at one point she offered me a place to meet in person, when I told her that it would be more helpful to me, but when I tried to take her up on that, she changed her mind because it would be too much of a hassle for her. She didn't really think I would go to the trouble to take a long bus trip to see her, I believe, so she felt safe in offering. Her back peddling on that was painful to listen to, I felt embarrassed for her.

 

I've only been continuing with her because I have no other options.  

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

29 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

And maybe you are now at the stage where you can help yourself more.

 

It's good that you are not allowing this to continue.  You need to look after yourself and this current issue shows that you are starting to do that.  Good on you!

well, actually she's never really helped me at all, she's just not totally unpleasant to talk to. I keep hoping maybe she'll come up with something helpful but so far, nope.

 

I don't know that I need therapy, I mean, I'm not really getting any right now and I'm doing fine. I just wanted some help with identifying and expressing emotions, and then figuring out if my thinking, that led to what I was feeling, was faulty in some regards. I prob could to the CBT by myself but figuring out what I am feeling is not so easy for me

 

I have decades of not feeling anything due to being medicated/overmedicated

 

but, meh I'll def be better off not getting ticked off on a weekly, or even monthly basis LOL

thanks again

 

 

[Colonial]

4 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

I've only been continuing with her because I have no other options.  

I certainly wasn't trying to make excuses for overly bad behavior, and You knowing the situation more than anyone are in the best position to know if your being taken advantage of or to what extent, I was just thinking to what extent all of our "professionals" are compromised to some extent right now for a host of reasons.  And sometimes when others know we have no other options, they aren't as attentive as they should be, the whole "captive audience" sort of thing.  I'm really sorry your in this position. 💔

[Happy2Heal]

1 minute ago, Colonial said:

 

thanks, I know you weren't and I try to be compassionate of health care workers knowing what they've been going thru, I'm glad you pointed that out because it's good to keep it in my mind

 

I have a fairly negative attitude about the mental healthy "system" in general but that's a system vs a person , who is just as deserving of respect and consideration as any one else, 

regardless of where they work or who the work for

 

good thing to highlight that, I think so I thank you! 

[Colonial]

27 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

 

I have a fairly negative attitude about the mental healthy "system" in general but that's a system vs a person

 

This is understandable, and as an "And" and not a "But", those workers are just as ill treated by the "system" many times as we are.  I have a friend who worked for a medicaid- medicare outfit and they were so under staffed and over worked with higher case loads than acceptable she ended up attempting suicide Herself.  Once that happened She had to quit and I don't think she's worked again since, it was just too much. It's a very difficult situation for everyone. Government doesn't care to fund things properly and both end up suffering for it, the worker and the patient.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Colonial

[ChessieCat]

27 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

I prob could to the CBT by myself but figuring out what I am feeling is not so easy for me

 

I have the same issue.  I found an online CBT course helpful for this.  It was an Australian government funded course with support from a counsellor (of some sort) during the course and after for 3 months.

 

Perhaps you could find one online.  I don't think the free ones would include real person support unless they are subsidised like the one I did.  Even if it costs a small amount it might be worth trying it but I think you need to have personal support for it to be worthwhile and it helps to keep you on track.

 

Here's one (note it was the advertisement) that came up when I did a search.  No affiliation and not assessed.  Just did a dummy sign up and it looks a bit expensive.  But an example of what I think might be helpful.

 

https://www.online-therapy.com

[Happy2Heal]

@Colonial

 

oh I am so sorry for your friend! yes you are quite right, those employed within the system are not always treated very well either (I don't know if I'd include those self employed psychiatrists and such but I don't know enough about the conditions they work under)

 

during my first inpatient experience in a small clinic/hospital one of the employees was on one side of the desk one week and the very next, a pt himself.

 

personally I think the whole "system" needs to be scrapped and they need to start over with something totally different

 

what? I don't know.

I just know what we've got is mostly ineffective at best and sadly very harmful at worst.

 

 

 

[Colonial]

2 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

during my first inpatient experience in a small clinic/hospital one of the employees was on one side of the desk one week and the very next, a pt himself.

 

They had to take my friend to a hospital out of the area since they could not let them be in the same position as the employee your talking about.  For confidentiality reasons, they couldn't risk having one of the "clients" ending up in the same ward with them. And they wonder why nobody gets any better.

[Happy2Heal]

1 hour ago, Colonial said:

 

They had to take my friend to a hospital out of the area since they could not let them be in the same position as the employee your talking about.  For confidentiality reasons, they couldn't risk having one of the "clients" ending up in the same ward with them. And they wonder why nobody gets any better.

I see. I'm not sure what you mean about "wondering why nobody gets better"... It's late and my brain may be a bit fuzzy but I'm not sure I get the connection between your friend being sent out of the area and folks not getting better....?

 

the incident I referred to happened pre HIPPA, back in the mid 1970s. 

that's when I ended up with a diagnosis of "adjustment reaction to adolescence" but was forcefully  medicated with the first generation anti psychotics. thorazine, stellazine. 

 

that set the stage for even more bad treatment for decades to come, as no dr would believe that I was given such powerful drugs without actually having a serious mental illness like schizophrenia....and then they decided it must be bipolar disorder, and then they just threw the kitchen sink at me and gave me a half dozen more labels, to justify all the drugs they were prescribing

 

*sigh*

 

I was disempowered at the age of 18. in more ways than one, their actions destroyed my life.

but I've got it back now.

 

[Colonial]

1 minute ago, Happy2Heal said:

I'm not sure what you mean about "wondering why nobody gets better".

 

Meaning when even the staff isn't treated correctly, the "fall out" eventually lands on the client or patient. 

The stressed staff start exhibiting behavior or dealing with issues not completely professional in order to deal with the stress.

Like wanting to take "walks" during appointment times, perhaps. 

In your case, it sounds like it may just be a maturity issue on Her end but stress can play into bad decision making, too.

Who knows why she would think that's appropriate.

It does sound like bad training which, again, leads back to the beginning of you get what you pay for.

 

[Happy2Heal]

15 minutes ago, Colonial said:

It does sound like bad training which, again, leads back to the beginning of you get what you pay for.

 

that's probably true but pretty depressing for someone as poor as I am LOL

 

I've had good therapy twice in my life, really good therapy. So I know what it can be like.

Nothing since then has come even close.

 

and I've never been able to pay for it, so it's not actually true that you get what you pay for.

 

Since the combination of being misdiagnosed, mis-treated and horribly overmedicated combined with my actual issue, PTSD, I've been unable to work so I have been dirt poor my entire adult life.

 

if I were not so focused on making the remainder of my life as good as it can be, I'd be pretty damn mad about all this, but it won't get me back the lost years, lost income, lost potential, etc

 

but yeh, in this society, your worth is measured by what you are able to pay.

 

[Happy2Heal]

UPdate

the therapist emailed me to ask if I was coming back

I told her that it wasn't working for me, her being out walking around while we are in session, that the noise disturbs  and distracts me and that I was very angry at her for continuing along as if I'd said nothing.

She said she is always out walking during sessions and that only clients have only complained when they can hear traffic at intersections. She is not doing any in person s sessions, it's more convenient for her to not have to go to an office. She would be allowed to but it's not what she wants to do.

 

She just wants to do what she wants to do I guess. I know she's not being paid a ton to do it, so maybe in her mind it's ok to do it half assed IDK

I don't understand why she doesn't see that it's rude and disrespectful.  I really think it would be for anyone but maybe others just don't care.

 

for me, personally, it was also incredibly frustrating because in order to speak to her, I need to use a USB headset that tethers me to one spot, at my computer (I use google voice for the call)

and I would love to be able to walk around, etc.  I was very envious of her being able to get up and go. 

I would love to be able to pause in the conversation and not feel pressured to keep speaking when I'd like time to think. In person, there's no need to ask " are you still there?" like she does if I pause for more than a half a minute.... 

it's just all wrong for me really.

 

I wish I had other options but it is what it is. 

what I really want is something like a life coach but those are expensive LOL

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

44 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

I really think it would be for anyone but maybe others just don't care.

 

Maybe they don't know any better, feel obligated, can't be bothered finding another one, or aren't strong enough to stand up for themselves and speak up about any issues.

[ChessieCat]

46 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

I told her that it wasn't working for me, her being out walking around while we are in session, that the noise disturbs  and distracts me and that I was very angry at her for continuing along as if I'd said nothing.

 

Even though I don't "know you", I feel very proud that you stood up for yourself and also told her the reasons.

 

47 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

I wish I had other options but it is what it is. 

what I really want is something like a life coach but those are expensive LOL

 

Yes it's unfortunate that you can't do it the why you want to because of the cost.  However, if you really want to help yourself I think you are strong enough to make the effort to help yourself by using free online resources.

 

I've managed to get myself on a low carb diet without any help from professionals.  The dietician told me I wasn't eating enough carbs.  I did get some tips and ideas from her, but I emailed her after the first session and cancelled the second appointment.  I explained to her that I had done a lot of research after I saw her and that I am going to continue with the low carb diet.

 

I think my doctor wanted me to start a statin (which can cause/worsen diabetes!) for my high cholesterol straight away, and was talking about Metformin (which can cause weight gain - I need to lose weight, not gain it).  I told her that it doesn't make any sense to start a drug and change diet at the same time.  The doctor doesn't yet know that I am on the low carb diet.  I'm expecting to surprise her when I get my blood test done mid January, and I will say tah-dah LOW CARB DIET!  I've even planned which top I am going to wear which is fitted.  I'm going to have to find some trousers which fit.  I think I have some somewhere but the pair that I thought I would be wearing are already a bit loose!