Sunnyhope: Lexapro withdrawal - adverse effect - need advice

[Sunnyhope]

@altostrata  

 

I m sorry.  I will reread my thread. 
 

I thought this is what I failed to ask before.  I thought I’ll do it right this time. 

 

In January, when I made my pros and cons list. I really wanted to do the bridge. 
 

Of course you had to inform me there was a risk and had to decide if it was worth it. 

I since then has been angry at my self for not investigating what to do with that risk, that is, if anything goes wrong, then what. 
 

I just heard the word risk, and got to scared to rock the boat. 
 

I will of course reread my thread and again. I’m sorry. 

[Sunnyhope]

@Altostrata

 

Dear altostrata.

 

i have reread my thread several times!  I’m so sorry to bother you,  but I still didn’t quite find the answer. Maybe I’m just stupid.

Is it ok if I try to explain what is unclear to me?

 

[Altostrata]

When was the last time you drank alcohol?

 

Here is a recapitulation of the suggestions I've given you about substitution for Paxil:

On 1/3/2022 at 9:19 AM, Altostrata said:

If I were you, I'd plan to crossover to fluoxetine in 10 days:

 

Day 1 1.5mg paroxetine + 1mg fluoxetine (observe effect)

 

Day 4 1.0mg paroxetine + 1mg fluoxetine (observe effect)

 

Day 7 0.5mg paroxetine + 1mg fluoxetine (observe effect)

 

Day 10 1mg fluoxetine

 

Often, less fluoxetine is sufficient. The effect of fluoxetine will continue to ramp up over weeks.

 

 

On 9/8/2022 at 5:30 PM, Altostrata said:

....

Yes, we would not have recommended reinstatement of Paxil because it is so very difficult to go off. These do sound like withdrawal symptoms:

....

I am hesitant to suggest increasing Paxil. Your best option now might be to convert to citalopram, escitalopram's milder sibling, by adding 0.5mg now, increasing to 1.5mg after a week and, after giving that a week, stopping Paxil. The principle is similar to The Prozac switch or "bridging" with fluoxetine

 

On 9/10/2022 at 2:54 PM, Altostrata said:

As explained before, we would never have advised you to start Paxil because it can cause the problems you're experiencing now. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to go off Paxil. Doctors often will switch to Prozac to do this. However, you have rejected a switch to Prozac.

 

No one can predict the future, but it is possible a citalopram reinstatement will both reduce escitalopram withdrawal and substitute for Paxil enough to enable you to go off. 

 

Reinstating escitalopram would also be a possibility, but it's stronger than citalopram and you had an adverse reaction to it before. Taking Paxil with citalopram has less risk of this than taking Paxil with escitalopram.

 

As explained before, I cannot predict that you would have success in substituting fluoxetine, citalopram, or escitalopram for Paxil. If a switch doesn't work, I suppose you could go back to Paxil.

 

Your other option is stay at your current Paxil dosage for a good while, as it appears to have somewhat reduced your withdrawal symptoms.

[Sunnyhope]

@altostrata 

 

thanks for your patience and clarification!

 

my main concern was really what to do if the switch fails. Knowing it is a possibility to go back to Paxil makes it less scary. 

 

 

My main goal is to reduce my withdrawal symptoms. I need to go back to work to support my family. I need to do more than just exist. I need the head pressure, numb body and the bruxism to go away
 

I regret starting Paxil because it limits my freedom to get even better. 
 

Ideally  I would have liked to updose to an even more comfortable dosage that decreases the WD symptoms further. Then hold and stabilise a long time before touching it again.
 

This would be an option on both citalopram and Prozac. 

 

And I quess on Paxil too.   

But as you said, I would ideally not like to do updose Paxil - because of the horrific side effects. And of course it will get even harder to withdraw from a higher dose. 
 

So that’s mainly why I consider switching to citalopram or Prozac. 
 

Then there is the one million dollar question I know there is no answer to, namely which is best for my symptoms now and for a long time, of Prozac or citalopram. 

 

I’ve contacted my GP again, about finding someone that can help me decide and to monitor the process closely . There are now more and more offerings on what they call drug free treatment. This means clinics where they offer therapy and/or assist you in tapering, updosing, switching ssri with NO PRESSURE to be on drugs 

 

I hope to be assigned to one of those clinics

Ironically, it turnes out that the psychiatrists at drug free treatment are the most knowledgeable on helping people taper, quit or switch drugs.. 

 

Until recently I thought these places had no drug knowledge as they focused on being drug free. 
 

Thanks🙏

 

ps: no alcohol since July 2021. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

2 minutes ago, Sunnyhope said:

Ironically, it turnes out that the psychiatrists at drug free treatment are the most knowledgeable on helping people taper, quit or switch drugs.. 

 

Good to know this is evolving.

[Sunnyhope]

@altostrata 

 

yes, things are improving.:)  But it’s hard to find info and practitioners!  

 

I ve done tons of research the latest weeks (that I was too sick to do a year ago)

 

I talked to a professor at a drug free treatment i I found an article about. He said there are only a handful  psychiatrists in my country that truly understands that these drugs are not helping. He tries to educate his colleagues but meet lots of resistance. 
 

He pointed me further, and I got information on other organisations and persons being active and informed, and the 4-5 drug free clinics around my country. 
 

 

 

[Sunnyhope]

On 9/9/2022 at 2:30 AM, Altostrata said:

I am hesitant to suggest increasing Paxil. Your best option now might be to convert to citalopram, escitalopram's milder sibling, by adding 0.5mg now, increasing to 1.5mg after a week and, after giving that a week, stopping Paxil. The principle is similar to The Prozac switch or "bridging" with fluoxetine

 

@altostrata

 

HELP - -adverse reaction. In full blown wd again - and Worse off with daily worsening symptoms. 
 

I stupidly went for the Prozac bridge. Had adverse reaction to Prozac. Stopped before even touching Paxil.
 

after stopping the real problems hit. 

 

Recap - I lowered my paxil dosage - in July from 1.3 mg to 1.2.
 

Why so stupid? God knows why.  
 

I had intrusive thoughts about being stuck on Paxil. at the same time I knew I had to stay on it because I couldn’t risk wd!  I also knew it had helped, I slept at night and the torturous chemical anxiety is gone. So I didn’t want to risk that. 

 

 I guess I honestly thought the decrease was too small to have effect.  I just wanted some relief from intrusive thoughts, like I am doing something.
 

 When anxiety increased it first seemed situational. i didn’t realise it was heading for wd  I thought I’d toughen it out. ( BIG MISTAKE ) 

 

UPDOSE

When I finally realised - **** - this is withdrawal I updosed

 

initially It helped but still problems. And then it takes a turn for the worse again. 
 

IT gets worse!  

 

now being in WD and panic, I initially reject the idea of crossing to an other drug. I immediately cringe by the thought. Being this vulnerable to such a small amount, it’s no way I can stomach a switch.
 

But then I start to fantasise. What if this is exactly what it takes to make your situation better. What if you can’t get out of this new withdrawal without it. 
 

So I rush into it and start with the small amount of Prozac. 
 

To be continued 

 

@brassmonkey 

 

[Sunnyhope]

@Altostrata

Se the post before this too. 
 

after our last conversation I get busy finding a drug free place to help me. I find two amazing places, but I need it approved by the local health service to get their help. 
 

my local health service don’t believe in WD and have an agenda against the drug free treatments. So I apply and it’s so much back and forth. I get my hopes up and then it gets rejected.
 

Maybe this is why I don’t stabilise on the updose?

 

so - rushing into a Prozac trial

 

daily notes of symptoms 

 

October 10

 

More life THERE ( private part) a brief moment?

More feeling in the numb face?

Rush - desire to increase more. A "drunk" - good feeling?
 

october 11

More wriggling teeth

Calmer

More burning lower back

More headaches?

Burning/tingling face?

Numb again face. There.

Dancing teeth controlled. Wriggling.

 

october 12

Night : woke up at 0400 and 0600.

 

Tension in the lower back first came when paxil was started last year. Suspect it’s connected to the pssd body numbness. feels like it is. 

 

Burning in the lower back came for the first time after the updose of paxil in August

 

Now extreme! It's 0600 but I woke up at 0400. Pain in the lower back as if sore after training. Extreme lower back pain. big activity in lower back.  What's happening ?
 

Dangerous to continue?
 

Reminiscent of the feeling of burning after the updose

 

Back : unable to sit up in bed. Extremely severe pain. Aching, burning, throbbing! From 0600-0646 which is now: knocking pain.

 

Burns in the brain Dead feeling there.

 

Tinnitus as usual. Increased anxiety

 

1430 go for a walk in the forest . 3 hours almost. Pain in the toe and tired back. But - felt a little better mentally. Thoughts about jogging.

 

Home food and series on Netflix  A few hours an ok feeling - prozac?
 

Thought for a moment that less numb THERE. Wrong, numb again evening.
 

Evening. After series ended. Emptiness. Anxiety. Disappointed that this isn’t doing wonders.  Headache/pain. Now. RLS in bed. Lower back burning but weaker than yesterday. Brain swelling.
 

october 13

conserned about symptoms previous days.  But also thinking it may subside. I also had som calmer moments. I want more of that 

 

maybe this is all startup side effects. Maybe it will subside. 
 

so I continue 

 

Another night: sleeps well until 0630 - wakes up anxious! Sleeping again. 1030 get up.
 

Nausea, tired, anxiety, extreme lower back pain. Pain/itchy nose. Dead body. Satiety.

 

Brain swelling Fire in the brain. Anxiety. Poor physical condition.

 

Must sleep. Real back pain - painful to move.

 

Smell of fire in the nose! Really!!!

 

ACTIVE numbness  THERE.

 

Headache - pressure - neck Mentally worse. Extreme lump Anxiety with the smell of fire

 

What Ito do? Impossible to know.
 

evening extreme neck burn, lower back Burn, head burn.. Hurts so much!!!! Teeth, head burn, there!

 

calling it quits. 
 

the next days it subsides. 
 

but October 20 I start to detoriate 

 

@Gridley  tagging in case alto is busy

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by ChessieCat
reformatted font

[Sunnyhope]

@Altostrata@gridley. 
se above posts too

 

so my health is growing worse each day. Seems like i had an adverse reaction. 

 

November 6

 

Waking up nightmare 0300. (I went to bed 0130) Typical cortisol rush. Can't sleep again

 

Been bedridden to feel less pain (headaches, neck problems etc are less noticeable in bed).

Emotional pain over the situation is unbearable.

Naps during the day. Waking up in anxiety and terror when remembering the situation

 

Symptoms: Physical: Extreme burning in body, head, forehead, face. Visible redness of the skin, the face burns. New type of tinnitus - metallic, my voice becomes metallic - sounds like in hard echo chamber.

 

The neck is stiff and "paralyzed" - I feel insecure about the nerve communication through it.

 

When I think - the brain burns and expands.

 

Numb fingers and toes - but less noticeable when lying in bed. Headache less noticeable when lying down. A number of scary bumps in the back of the head. Pain stabbing neck. The burning in the lower back that was the first symptom is strangely not a symptom anymore - instead it is real back pain. Tingling, burning, extreme numbness in the glutes. Very prominent and new area. The teeth move more than before this happened. Unfortunately! Gives tension that "meets" the numbness/brain swelling. Numb teeth - more than before.

 

 

The headset makes me feel that my ears are numb. NEW. Unpleasant and terrifying. Causes extreme anxiety.

 

A point in the back of the head begins to throb, swell, burn, pain.

 

Burning in the neck. Face more numb than ever. Numb tongue and lip.

 

Mentally Extreme anxiety that threatens to spiral into unbearable atakasia/anxiety I can't stand. That's why instay in bed,

 

. Suffering from anxiety at thoughts or sensory impressions/sounds. Have avoided pacing by keeping the bed.

 

The "sad" part.
 

This type of anxiety was what I had to an escalating degree from May to October last year and nothing helped. Not therapy, not time, not changing thoughts, not meditation. But - within a few weeks improved when starting with seroxat. Afraid I've destabilized myself and won't get out of it this time.

 

 

what to do?

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by ChessieCat
reformatted font

[Sunnyhope]

@altostrata @gridley 

 

important note 

 

in the list of symptoms on the days I tried Prozac. 
 

why didn’t I stop Prozac sooner?  
 

these symptoms were not new - that’s why I was confused. 

 

I’ve had increased wriggling teeth, increased head pressure, a feeling of being more numb there on several occasions throughout the year from wd hit august last year. 
 

I had them as part of the newly wd. 
 

so I write it down, thinking I’m smart to observe,?not being fully sure they had anything to do with prozac.  For example  I I also the week before note down that I have increased wriggling of teeth. 

 

I know I was stupid.  If all the symptoms were brand new I would of course have stopped before. 
 

I of course should have done anyway - but should have doesn’t help me now. 

[Altostrata]

When you first started Prozac, you had a bad reaction? What was the reaction, how long did it last?

 

I do not think wiggling of teeth is related to psychiatric drug use or withdrawal.

[Shep]

On 11/7/2022 at 4:36 AM, Sunnyhope said:

I’ve had increased wriggling teeth,

 

Do you mean you're grinding your teeth? Do you wear a nightguard? If not, you may want to check in with your dentist about this. They also sell nightguards at many drug stores. It can save you a small fortune in dental work later. 

[Sunnyhope]

Thanks for answering

I have so numb fingers now I can’t even type. I’m really destroyed. 

 

The teeth thing was actually my severe adverse reaction to lexapro. this didn’t go away when quitting lexapro. 

 

its a motor dysfunction teeth/jaw - more severe case than just grinding the teeth. 
it’s involuntary movements also daytime, constant involuntary reposition of the teeth.  and not being able to rest the teeth. 
 

I have a used tooth guard since it first appeared. 

 

 

Prozac, when do you mean?  This last time. Or back in 2015?

It really doesn’t matter. 

 

All I know that what happened to me now is serious!  It’s a whole new ballgame!
 

Im  kindled and got a terrible hit in my CNS. 
 

 

Up til July I was getting better and better , I even went to work two half days a week up until this happened. 

 

 

now terrors of akathisia, cortisol rush, 24/7 anxiety is back with so much more!

 

the physical decline is enormous and scary.  

 

I’m so devastated and afraid. 
 

 

 

 

[itiscomplicated]

2 hours ago, Sunnyhope said:

it’s involuntary movements also daytime, constant involuntary reposition of the teeth.  and not being able to rest the teeth. 

 

I've had some neurological issues, including but not limited to jaw/tooth movements, which started after a while on my last "cocktail" and got worse after discontinuing.

 

It has been getting better over time, slowly.

 

For me it gets worse with anxiety and stress.

 

I've found tuning into my body, mindfulness, and this site's recommendations for dealing with emotional symptoms to be helpful.

[Shep]

19 hours ago, Sunnyhope said:

The teeth thing was actually my severe adverse reaction to lexapro. this didn’t go away when quitting lexapro. 

 

 

Has the "teeth thing" gotten any better since April 2021 when you stopped Lexapro? Is it as intense? 

 

Quote

Oct 23 : Started 0.2 mg upped gradually to 1.7 mg Paxil in an attempt to lessen anxiety. 

Nov 30: 10 percent decrease, 1.5 mg,  jan 31: 1.4 mg, may-jun:  gradually lower to 1.3 mg, july 1: drop to 1.2 mg. Worsening  August 11:  back up to 1.3 mg

 

This is from your signature. What year is this for, 2021 or 2022? Please add the year. A direct link to your signature is here:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

[Sunnyhope]

Thank you

 

I think my new symptoms and the teeth thing shares a common cause!

 

But  this time I got wiped  out   so hard i dont think I will ever be well again. 

 

The teeth thing is now my least concern.

 

It didn’t get better after quitting lexapro.  It sometimes would get worse, and more intense. but it was pretty stable.  Its a problem never being relaxed in this area and the tension moves all up to  the head. 
 

my main physical long lasting symptoms after quitting lexapro used to be;

 

- the teeth thing. 

- Anaesthesia/numbness. Especially scalp, face, nose, teeth, genitals, nipples, part of skin ( pssd and more) 

-swollen brain/ head pressure/ headaches

 

The brain would increase/give pressure  when I use my brain to think. Also when I try to access some feelings that are blunted. 
 

from the beginning the teeth thing was the reason I didn’t reinstate in May when wd started. I didn’t crash until august. Pssd and numbness came september 3. 
 

I’ll write my new symptoms in the next post - getting overwhelmed.  

 

i think the driving force for these symptoms are the same. 
 

I think the chemicals  floods the brain and turn things off/damages things, some of it involving dopamine.   Then you must rely on the drug to keep things running on top of the damage. 

 

It  keeps deteriorating after one quits.  Like a car engine that is lacking oil is ruined. 
 

thanks again for taking an interest.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 11/9/2022 at 6:11 AM, Sunnyhope said:

its a motor dysfunction teeth/jaw - more severe case than just grinding the teeth. 
it’s involuntary movements also daytime, constant involuntary reposition of the teeth.  and not being able to rest the teeth. 

 

This could be an adverse drug effect.

 

Did this start after you started escitalopram in 2021? Did you have it while you were taking escitalopram?

[CloudyToday]

Hi @Sunnyhope,

 

I read through your story, you mentioned that at some point you started feeling full and having a hard time eating. I'm going through a similar symptom from paxil and I wonder if it got better for you over time.

 

TIA and I hope you are feeling better.