Ginger23: Need advice

[Ginger23]

Stopped and started Zoloft twice this year after taking it 9 years. First time I stopped for 2 months because a naturopath told me to and take Sam-e instead. I didn’t feel better and restarted it around March. In withdrawals now and bad insomnia plus fatigue and lots others. I have a history of pots, Epstein Barr and RMSF. Was being treated heavily with antibiotics this past year and tons of supplements and in Aug I had a seratonin syndrome like episode. Took megadose cbd for sleep and it started that. So dr said to stay off everything except Valium and I did but 2.5 months off the second time I started not sleeping, tremors, adrenaline rushes, chills, weakness, muscle spasms, muscle tightness and more. My dr suggested reinstating Zoloft so I did. Been on half dose 3 weeks then full dose 12 days now. So far my sleep still not returning unless I take ambien and I’m so fatigued with muscle aches and tightness. Can’t get out of bed for a month now Having a few better days but still exhausted and scared I won’t sleep on my own again. My psychiatrist gave me hydroxyzine to sleep but it barely gives me sleep so he wants me on Mirtazapine and I don’t want to. I didn’t know how severe stopping an antidepressant could be. Will I continue to get better with reinstating?  My hopes are to get stabilized then later slow taper. Any experiences with reinstating anyone?   Please help.  Drs do not help with this 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by ChessieCat
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[Kiasofia]

Welcome @Ginger23

I am sorry you are going through this and are suffering, but relieved you have found us. This forum is run by others like you who have been through and survived, or are surviving, the negative effects of psychiatric drugs.

 

I would not recommend adding Mirtazapine or any other new drug to your problems. It can cause an adverse reaction and also has the same withdrawal issues as Zoloft.

 

As you have experienced medical professionals have a poor understanding of how these drugs affect people. I found this post helpful to understand how these drugs actually work and why healing can take time:

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

If you had joined before reinstating Zoloft, we would have advised starting with a much lower dose. Starting and stopping psychiatric drugs is bad for the central nervous system (CNS). Each time we start and stop it becomes more and more sensitized. The risk of a bad reaction to restarting the drug or starting other drugs or supplements increases. Thankfully you have not had a bad reaction despite this. Have you felt worse since reinstating Zoloft? When it comes to reinstatement relief can be felt immediately, after some weeks, or after some months. Hopefully you will feel relief from reinstating, but it can take some months for some people.

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

When we recover, there are times of feeling OK mixed in with times of feeling bad.  This is called windows and waves.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Aside from a high quality fish oil and magnesium, be careful with supplements. Your central nervous system (CNS) has become sensitized from psychiatric drug use and can react unpredictably. Alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and other mind altering substances can make the condition worse.

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, diet

 

Here is our symptoms and self care section, you may find some useful ideas to help manage symptoms as you recover. 

Symptoms and self care topics

 

So it’s easy for anyone reading your posts to get a quick overview of your situation we ask members to summarize their medication history in a signature following these instructions:

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

This is your Introductory topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

Please stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Kiasofia

[Ginger23]

I have unfortunately been taking ambien to get me sleep. I haven’t been able to doze myself since the worst withdrawals started Oct 23. I need recommendations on how to taper ambien it helps me get 5-6 hours now but I read there is down side to taking this med. I’m so frustrated. A lot of my symptoms have calmed except depression, fatigue, insomnia and slight anxiety because I’ve been shocked by all this. I have pots too so the erratic heartrate and blood pressure was worse but it’s settling a lot.  I take Valium to 5 mg a day and not quitting this one ct because I see it can be bad as well. All my drs are trying to gv me new meds like propranolol and fludrocortisone but I reacted to midrodrine Oct 6 and made my muscles tenser and spasms. I’m so distraught what to do every since Oct 23 I have been house bound from fatigue and anxiety. Reinstating (3 weeks at half dose and day 13 at full dose 50mg Zoloft) I think is helping but now adding ambien for sleep several weeks I’m not sure if I am doing the right thing. Sleep is so important for me. 

[Kiasofia]

You are wise to be skeptical of accepting more drugs. Most doctors do not understand how sensitized the withdrawal brain can be. As you know, and we have many cases of here, antibiotics can be highly triggering. I would stay far away from fludrocortisone, a steroid, which can also be very triggering.

 

Did you notice a change in symptoms when you increased from 25mg to 50mg Zoloft?

 

Are you taking Valium 5 mg every day? (Your signature says 5-10mg every other day.) What effect do you notice it having? Benzos should be taken as sparingly as possible to avoid dependency. But once dependency is reached (you get withdrawal symptoms when it wears off) it is best to take the same dose at the same time every day. It is generally advised to wait to taper Valium until you have tapered off Zoloft. It also requires a slow taper.

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Have you been taking Ambien every day since Oct 27?

Tips for tapering off Z drugs for sleep (Ambien, Imovane, Sonata, Lunesta, Intermezzo, etc.)

 

Here is our thread on non drug techniques to cope with sleep:

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

[Ginger23]

I have noticed a difference in my mood. It’s a lot better than first 3 weeks and the adrenaline rushes with burning skin has gotten better.  My fever is gone down in evenings was 100.8 now it’s every now and then it 99.1.    My heart rate and bp isn’t as erratic as I can tell.  I have taken Valium more lately because of my sleep problems extreme insomnia and anxiety which I now know that isn’t good. I was taking it every other day when I needed it. I probably do hv a dependency unfortunately now on it. The ambien is a concern too. I wasn’t sleeping at all and this was added. I have taken it almost regularly now for tad over a month. I am now shocked to see this may be a problem too. I am still very weak, get tense every now and then, and can’t do much. Get achy, chills, and muscle spasms still come and go. This last month and half has taken everything out of me. Now wondering if should stick out not sleeping to get it to come on my own. My nerves can’t handle no sleep seriously.  I really appreciate it. 

[Ginger23]

When it says a 25% reduction of ambien per week what exactly is that. As taking 10mg for a month what exactly is the taper schedule?  I’ve looked in benzo buddies and can’t see anything but that information. Can’t wrap my head around this calculation going through Zoloft withdrawals and reinstating. Thank you anyone for the help. I definitely do not want more withdrawals on top of withdrawals. I wished drs were more helpful thy are not. So destructive. 

[Kiasofia]

19 hours ago, Ginger23 said:

I was taking it every other day when I needed it. I probably do have a dependency unfortunately now on it.

How have you felt on the days you didn't take valium?

 

How do you feel the day after you have taken Ambien? Are you able to fall asleep without taking ambien the following night?

17 hours ago, Ginger23 said:

When it says a 25% reduction of ambien per week what exactly is that.

 I don't know these pills, but if it is possible to divide them into 4 (using a pill cutter or a razor blade) then you would take 3/4ths to make such a reduction. Then 2/4ths and then 1/4th.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Kiasofia

[Ginger23]

After I take Valium I’m calmer but don’t sleep only ambien puts me to sleep. But it makes me more fatigued and depressed next day. I take ambien almost every day now and need off it. I do not want to deal with multiple withdrawals while in a withdrawal/ reinstatement of Zoloft. I have taken more Valium than normal to try to sleep and at least 10mg every other day. It’s a hit or miss on it tho. I’ve taken ambien now lil over a month with only few days I didn’t to see if I could sleep and didn’t. 

[Frogie]

@Ginger23

 

Unfortunately taking Valium every other day, your body has now become dependent on it. You need to take Valium every day. It's not wise to take a benzo every other day even though Valium has a long 1/2 life of around 200 hours. 

 

When did you go from taking 5 mg to 10 mg? Did you take the 5 mg every other day also? Valium is very sedating, especially at 10 mg. 

 

I know it's very difficult going through this as I have been in your shoes with multiple medications and going through wd. However, can you please start taking the Valium every day? You could take the 5 mg every day, just be sure to take it at the same time every day and take it within an hour before or after any other medication.

 

After you are stable on this, we can taper you off slowly after your other medications are tapered. You want to to taper Valium last as that is keeping you stable as you reduce your other medications.

 

If you have any questions, please reach out to me and I'll be happy to help.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Ginger23]

I used to take 2.5 mg when needed for anxiety since 2016 after my dad died. I went times without it.  But since I have ctd Zoloft twice this year for 2 months each. One because a naturopath told me too the other after a seratonin syndrome like episode after tkn high dose cbd oil to sleep Aug 8. I was only taking 5 mg a day up until I stopped sleeping on my own Oct 23. I had tremors, chills, tight muscles, muscle aches, agitated, psychosis like blank stare, deep depression, dizziness, fatigue, fever in evenings 100.8, crying spells, no appetite, trembling, gi upset, there has to be more but I went to the dr on day 3 of no sleep they recommended reinstating Zoloft half dose then full dose 50mg. He gv me ambien but now I’ve tkn it 1 1/2 months and it’s losing the ability to work. I started tkn 10mg of Valium when I woke in few hours after ambien to get few more hours of sleep. I feel so exhausted during the day.  I am weaning ambien now because it’s not helping my fatigue or mood. Ambien 10mg. My dr says to half it for a week is this right?  I’m stuck in a pickle I feel I will hv to go days without sleep. Now I’m on a tad over a month reinstating Zoloft 50mg and hoping it will stabilize me and my sleep come back.  So far not yet. I’m all ears at what I should do because drs don’t say. They want me on remeron. I surely don’t want another ad. 
 

thank you so much. I need help 

[Ginger23]

I’ve tkn Valium 10mg almost everyday now for several weeks with few days didn’t tk it. 

[Altostrata]

@Ginger23 exactly what are you taking now, at what times o'clock and dosages? Are you taking Valium every other day or every day?

 

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

 

It's very possible you are now taking TOO MUCH Valium. When you take too much of a benzo, it can cause a paradoxical reaction -- keeping you from sleeping.

 

1 hour ago, Ginger23 said:

I was only taking 5 mg a day up until I stopped sleeping on my own Oct 23.

 

What were your drug changes in October, up to October 23?

[Ginger23]

5pm. Zoloft 50mg. Ok not tell because already feel fatigued 
10:30pm ambien 10mg. Was putting me to sleep now I’m laying for 3 hours to sleep 

6-7am Valium 10mg. Gets me few hours of sleep 

rest of the day I’m exhausted/weak feeling depressed and frustrated. 
Tried napping with 50mg hydroxyzine but couldn’t several times at 2:30 around. 

[Ginger23]

I stopped Zoloft ct from Aug til Oct 25. I tried midodrine for pots Oct 7 and made my muscles tight and had insomnia til 5am. I tried cyproheptadine 4mg once Oct 27 to see if it’d help but made me sedated and did not sleep. That was only me being concerned of my episode aug 8. 

[Altostrata]

On 12/16/2021 at 4:01 PM, Ginger23 said:

5pm. Zoloft 50mg. Ok not tell because already feel fatigued 
10:30pm ambien 10mg. Was putting me to sleep now I’m laying for 3 hours to sleep 

6-7am Valium 10mg. Gets me few hours of sleep 

rest of the day I’m exhausted/weak feeling depressed and frustrated. 
Tried napping with 50mg hydroxyzine but couldn’t several times at 2:30 around. 

 

Hello, @Ginger23 How do you feel before and after taking Zoloft? Before and after taking Valium?

 

Do you mean you're taking 10mg Valium 6 p.m.-7 p.m.? Please post your daily notes 24 hours at a time, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms before and after every dose.

[Ginger23]

No I was taking it as I woke up in few hours to get more sleep 6-7am I meant. Every since wds hit Oct 23 I’ve had pure insomnia. I had tons other symptoms but I reinstated Zoloft per dr orders 2.5 months after stop it ct.  my insomnia persists. I just feel relaxed with Valium normally before wds that dose would knock me out. Now My body rejects anything but ambien to get me to doze off and actually sleep 5 hours. Im not certain what to do as I’ve stated I’ve tried several meds to help get sleep but my body resists. 

[Frogie]

@Ginger23

 

Have you been taking the Valium everyday like we talked about on December 16th? 

 

We talked about you taking 5 mg everyday.

 

That could be a lot of the symptoms you are having from not taking it consistently.

 

 

[Ginger23]

No I go a few days without it did not want to get tolerance to it since I’m needing sleep from wds from ct Zoloft in Aug that started Oct 23. I have pure insomnia. Before that I was taking it every other day 5mg.  I know this insomnia has messed me up insanely. I reinstated Zoloft Oct 26 due to severity of symptoms. However my sleep isn’t back yet unless I take something. Most times it doesn’t get me sleep just sedates me. I rotate with hydroxyzine 50mg-100mg, ambien 10mg, Valium 10mg different days. Trying to wean ambien. My sleep scares me the most not being able to doze naturally. I finally did sleep with hydroxyzine last night but I upped dose to 100mg. I have never had to take meds to sleep before this wd hit me from ct Zoloft. Never had a sleep problem all 9 years taking Zoloft. 

[Ginger23]

I guess I’m not understanding this process. Do you just not sleep.  If I took 5Mg Valium everyday it wouldn’t touch my falling to sleep. I guess I got scared and desperate to  sleep on my own which I hvnt yet unless I tk more amounts of a med. 

[Ginger23]

Need advice should I start tapering

 

Also I need advice. I been on Zoloft 50mg for 9 years. Naturopath dr said skip days then few weeks stop tk Sam-e. Ok did. Stayed off 2 months January-Feb and I wasn’t feeling good so I started 50mg back in April. So I was having anxiety and sleep issues throughout those months and was taking Benadryl whatever to sleep. 

My original Dr gv me gabapentin and Diclofenac (only took 4 gab and several dic) as well for arthritis pain I was getting in rib and neck ( I never hv that). This dr also was giving me 5 30 day rounds of antibiotics for RMSF 1:64 igg. He thought I wasn’t over it. I took doxycycline, augmentin, cefdinir in that order through Aug. 

 

So I took massive amount of cbd oil Aug 8 and had a ss like episode. Called ambulance and drs said probably overdose on cbd stay off everything except Valium for 6/8 weeks when cbd get out of my system. So I waited for weeks still had muscle spasms tightness and fatigue hr and bp erratic. I did experience brain zaps and crying spells late sept. I noticed I couldn’t smell my essential oils that good too. I was getting weaker having tunnel vision and pots getting worse. So Oct 23 hell started. Tremors, no appetite lost 8 lbs, adrenaline rushes, chills, burning skin, pure insomnia plus. My pharmacist immediately said I should reinstate. So I did Oct 26 at 25mg for 3 weeks then back to 50 until today. Things has gotten better but my insomnia, muscle aches, fatigue, I still feel lil anxiety in gut and my original pots symptoms. I have been on Valium too i hv for few years when needed. And dumb dr gave me ambien to sleep. I still can’t sleep without an aid and usually only thing works is ambien. 

 

Should I just start tapering?  I had no idea such thing could happen with Zoloft until it was after bad wds hit I found this group. No sleep is scary. I feel like I’m dying. 

 

Also since it’s been 8 weeks on original dose should I wait it out. I am very confused. I don’t know the difference in kindling and wds since the worst calmed down. I was in complete psychosis state just stare and wanted to die. 

 

Sorry long but just need advice. 

 

Feel like I’m in a tough spot. 

 

My cardiologist wants me on propranolol and. fludrocortisone

 

Propranolol made me feel heavy and my hr went low and I felt worse. Hvnt tried fludrocortisone. Im hesitate. The drs are not admitting withdrawals. My psych wants me to take remeron.

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Altostrata]

@Ginger23 is this still your drug schedule?

 

On 12/16/2021 at 4:01 PM, Ginger23 said:

5pm. Zoloft 50mg. Ok not tell because already feel fatigued 
10:30pm ambien 10mg. Was putting me to sleep now I’m laying for 3 hours to sleep 

6-7am Valium 10mg. Gets me few hours of sleep 

rest of the day I’m exhausted/weak feeling depressed and frustrated. 
Tried napping with 50mg hydroxyzine but couldn’t several times at 2:30 around. 

 

What happened when were taking 25mg Zoloft for 3 weeks starting October 25, before you increased to 50mg? Why are you taking Zoloft at 5 p.m.?

 

As we explained before, when you skip doses of drugs, even of Valium, that can cause odd symptoms and insomnia. Are you taking Valium every day? How much do you take? After you take it, what are the hours that you sleep?

 

Do you have cardiac symptoms? Why does your cardiologist want you to take propranolol and fludrocortisone?

 

We have requested daily symptoms notes a couple of times. The reason we're asking for them is to see what the drugs you're taking now are doing. Please post daily symptom notes. We may be able to resolve your symptoms so you don't need to add more drugs. You may be taking TOO MUCH Zoloft, Valium, and Ambien.

 

Before you add any drugs, put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker to see if they'll cause bad interactions.

[Ginger23]

I was still having tense muscles, insomnia, deep depression, weakness, fatigue, brain fog, very unwell not moving around much. Sleep deprived then psych wanted me on remeron I said no I’ll go back to my original dose. I take it at 5 because I was afraid it would cause insomnia more. I take more Valium to try to sleep. When I wake 4 hours later from ambien I take 2 5 mg to get few more hours of sleep. It’s random though how much I sleep. If I tk 2 Valium alone I don’t sleep. The ct Zoloft has switched dozing off. That’s why I reinstated 
 

today I’m depressed, exhausted from ambien and Valium I took earlier. My body aches and head. Can’t get out of bed the last several months. Just to go get tea and bathroom. I used to tk 1 Valium at night every so many nights. Now after wds hit I’ve increased using it desperate for sleep. So days I take 20mg. Like today to sleep longer this morning but I’m totally exhausted and can’t nap even now. 

[Ginger23]

I originally have pots. The wds were making my pots worse with erratic heartrate and bp. It seems to of calmed down but I don’t know if it’s because of ambien and Valium use. 

[Ginger23]

Should I taper ambien. I feel like it makes me more depressed. 

[Ginger23]

Hydroxyzine does not help now. 

[Altostrata]

Sorry to hear you're having such a bad time. We still need to see those daily notes.

[Ginger23]

Last night. Took .060 ambien didn’t sleep at 2am took 0.30 ambien slept til 7am. Took 10mg Valium and 0.030 ambien slept til 12. Laid in bed all day til 330pm and I’m still exhausted. 
today took Zoloft 5:37pm, fish oil, vit d, vit c, noni juice at 3:30. I’m exhausted alllll day and ache 

[Ginger23]

I stayed off ambien 3 days this week to try alternatives hydroxyzine and dayvigo but they were bad. 

[Ginger23]

I literally think ambien causes me more depression and more need to tk things to keep sleeping 

[Ginger23]

This is quite frankly everyday for me trying to sleep with meds. I’m getting afraid I’m dependent on ambien now and it’s potency is going away. I need help weaning and will I just need to suffer insomnia to get though stabilization.  

[Altostrata]

Please keep daily notes of times o’clock you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. We need to know how you feel before and after taking each drug, and your symptoms in between. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time o’clock on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

[Ginger23]

No I am trying to sort out my drug schedule since this was all over the place. I was taking more ambien and Valium to get sleep I was afraid I’d get worse without sleep. Now I’m out til 1/22 and been off ambien and Valium. I tried remeron 3 times and it makes me feel weird and I stopped it. Psychiatrist recommended for sleep. God help me. Still get no sleep. 
 

schedule is

zoloft 0.147g 7:30pm. 
400mg mg glycinate 10:30

melatonin 10mg.  Midnight I lay forever no sleep. I can’t doze of. I feel vibrations, muscle spasms, my mind races, sometimes my heartrate pulsating. 
 

I know I will hv to taper Valium when I get it filled because I was using more unaware of the effects from it. This is all scary and new to me to affects of these drugs once stopped abruptly. 

[Ginger23]

Should I stabilize before taper or what. Will stabilize mean when I sleep.  Or am I still hvn seratonin toxicity. I don’t know what is what.  I had a ss episode Aug 8. Withheld meds but Valium until Oct 23 bad wds hit. Bad. Sleep stopped. 

[Frogie]

@Ginger23

 

You've taken your month's worth of Ambien and Valium until 1/22, is that correct?

 

Is there anyway you can ask your dr for more? You can't simply go off these medications.

 

Once you start taking it again, you need to stay on a schedule. Unfortunately you can't rely on them to help you sleep. You'll need to stay on 5 mg Valium a day and 10 mg Ambien until you stabilize. Your body has now become dependent on the Valium.

[Ginger23]

Omg that’s not good. I will ask. Will the psych not think I’m abusing it. Ambien was losing its effect on my sleep I also tried weaning but I got all over the place. Desperate for sleep. Sometimes it helped others it did not. I’d tk lil more.  I as scared of no sleep. My goodness. I did not know what pickle this could be. 

[Ginger23]

I never took Valium everyday until my Zoloft wds hit hard Oct 23 and after the ss episode Aug 8 I did use it lil more regularly. I reinstated Zoloft then ambien was on the table. I wished I never started it. Tried dayvigo to get off ambien.