ingrid: Lost - quit Effexor 2 months ago

[ingrid]

Hi, I'm Ingrid... and I'm lost. (and warn lol by asking for help and for taking too much time to write this)

right now i feel nervous... really nervous about being here... and I don't know where start...

I start saying that I'm from chile, so I don't know much english, and it's lit hard to express myself in a language that it's not my native.

I've always  had problems with my emotions... I had a eating disorder in high school and I've been depressed in several occasions... but now i've been diagnosed as borderline.... It's not like I didn't know or have any clue of that,  but it's other things when the psychiatrist says that "you are" some ... thing

well, weeks ago I had a breakdown... I tried to kill myself, and I didn't relate that with the fact that I left my meds about 2 months ago... so I went crazy and thought that I needed those **** (sorry)... but a friend guided me here... and now I know that the things I made those days was a whithdrawal symptom...

so I don't know much about what steps I'll take from now on... but if there is something I'm sure is that I don't want to take psy-drugs ever again...

so here I am, searching for advices and help to feel better in time

[Kiasofia]

Welcome @ingrid

I am sorry you are going through this and are suffering, but glad you have found us. Becoming suicidal after quitting these drugs is something many of us have experienced. We can also change personality and get psychiatric symptoms when we take them. It may be that your borderline diagnosis is actually a result of how you react to taking psychiatric drugs and/or how you react to quitting them. Many have experienced being misdiagnosed because most doctors do not understand how these drugs affect us.

 

You quit 150mg Effexor two months ago? How long had you been taking it? Why did you quit? Are you taking anything now?

 

To help us better advise you, can you please create a signature with all of the drugs that you are taking and have been taking in the last couple of years following these instructions:

How to List Drug History in Signature

Your English is easy to understand. Do not worry about that.

 

This is your Introductory topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

[ingrid]

Hi and yes, I quit venlafaxine 150 mg after a year taking it in different dosis according to the orders of the psychiatrist... and now I'm just taking clotiazepam (benzo) when I really need it (like a SOS)

I quit it because taking them doesn't make sense to me anymore, I didn't feel positive changes at all... it was quite the opposite... so I told it to my psychiatrist and she decide to change it, and then I thought "why don't you take this opportunity and quit as you wanted to?" ... obviusly I was thinking that the tapering off was right... I guess I made a mistake.

Now I'm in a rest by the order of the psychiatrist... she told me, the last time a saw her, that I should start again with desvenlafaxine 50 mg and clotiazepam 20 mg during the day... but I didn't want to... I feel very lost, and here we don't have any medical support for tapering and quiting psy-drugs... so I don't know if what I did was the right thing to do...

 

[Kiasofia]

Thank you for creating your signature. Why were you changed from Sertraline to Escitalopram and Escitalopram to Venlafaxine? Why did your psychiatrist want you to take desvenlafaxine instead of venlafaxine? Were you experiencing any side effects?

 

When people do not have an effect from an antidepressants, psychiatrists keep trying new ones or raising doses. But some people do not get help from these drugs and some get worse from them. However, once our brain is used to taking them then we "need" to take them. In the same way that someone "needs" heroine. When we quit, it can be a shock for the brain. It has not had time to change back to the way it was before the drug changed it. Then we get withdrawal symptoms. (See attachment and these links.)

What is withdrawal syndrome?

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

How are you feeling now. Which withdrawal symptoms are you having? How is your sleep? Any anxiety? Panic? Thoughts of hurting yourself?

Drglenmullen_withdrawal_symptoms.pdf

[ingrid]

The psychiatrist first gave me sertraline, for 2 weeks and then I had another meeting with her to see the effects, and in that short time I change a lot, I was like a zombie,and my libido was completely gone... so I told that to her and she decided to switch to escitalopram. Then I had another meeting with her and I wasn't doing ok, I was sad, and crying for everything, so she was going to raise my dose, then I asked him if that rise was going to cause the same thing as sertraline, and she said yes, so I told her that I didn't want that, and she decided to switch to venlafaxine.

The last change (venlafaxine to desvenlafaxine) was because I told her that I wanted to leave the psy-drugs treatment, so she asked me why and I told her that it was because it doesn't makes sense to me anymore and I felt a different person in some aspects with them, but not in the aspects that the psy-drugs had to help me... so she decided to change the treatment again, because desvenlafaxine supposed to have less side effects. At first I said ok, I'm gonna believe it... but then ... happened all the other story

 

Now that I'm resting I am a little bit better or stable... but I'm still feeling sad and guilty because the things that happened during my crisis... I hurt someone I love, and he broke up with me... not in bad terms, we still have contact and he was (or is) really worried about me... and the things I did to myself... because I hurt myseld too, I tried to kill myself in front of him... oh I feel really really bad when I remember the things that I did... those were really hard days.

After that I came to my parents house to rest, and I have some of the symptoms mentioned in the document but I could'nt say if they are due to what happened or to the suspension of psy-drugs... these are: crying spells; low energy; trouble concentrating; trouble sleeping; change in apetite; suicidal thoughts (not as frequent as before the crisis); sometimes I feel anxious and have negative thoughts; abdominal pain; headache... sometimes electric zap-like in brain; twitches (in the heart side); and feeling of restless legs (It hasn't happened so often to me for a long time).

Also, I think I had all the symptoms mentioned in the "irritability and agression" and "mood swings" item, but before and during my crisis. And just after the crisis I had de symptoms of the "mimic the flu" item

[Kiasofia]

Psychiatrist only know how to "fix" us by trying different drugs or different doses. You will probably react just as badly to another drug. There is one possible exception. We have seen that taking a very small dose of the drug that is causing withdrawal can help with symptoms. This is called reinstatement. You can read more about it here and then we can discuss it more. Do not try it without discussing with us more first.

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

What was the last date you took venlafaxine? What was the dose? Do you still have venlafaxine? Is it the type with beads inside a capsule?

 

Have you stopped Risperidone? Have you stopped Clonazepam? When did you stop them?

 

Did you have suicidal thoughts while you were taking venlafaxine also? Or suicidal thoughts came only when you quit?

 

On 12/11/2021 at 2:57 AM, ingrid said:

I'm still feeling sad and guilty

Try to forgive yourself for this. You were reacting to drug affects. It is like if you had been drunk, but no one told you that the drinks they gave you were alcohol. Hopefully one day, you and those around you can learn more about what these drugs do to people. And understand what happened to you. And that it was not your fault.

 

Perhaps this page can help: https://madinspain.org/ This is also a good page, but in English http://cepuk.org/

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Kiasofia
updated links

[ingrid]

Hi, the last dosis of venlafaxine was 75 mg on october 8, but it was a "one time dosis", I mean, I took this dosis 2 days, and before this I was taking 150 mg... Now I don't have venlafaxine ... and yes, the ones I took were in capsule.

I stopped risperidone on October 5... and clonazepam has been replace for clotiazepam (it's supposed to be less strong) ... the last time I took clonazepam was in my crisis ... that I took, I think, 7 pills of 1 mg, approximately... and before that, I had left it on approximately September 7.

Now I took, only sometimes, clotiazepam SOS... when I'm feeling anxious

Before I stopped the venlafaxine I had some suicidal thoughts but it wasn't always or too frequent.

 

I was reading about the reinstating, but... it's too late for me to do that?

or is this possible to do in my case?

"You may be able to reinstate an equivalent drug. Some drugs are siblings, such as citalopram and escilatopram or venlafaxine and deslavenfaxine. Fluoxetine, which is arguably easier to taper than other SSRIs, may be substituted for SSRIs such as paroxetine or sertraline. (If you have had a prior adverse reaction to a drug, it may not be advisable as a substitute.)"

 

I mean, took a dosis of desvenlafaxine instead of venlafaxine (obvious, in case you can do the reinstating)??? I ask this because I have in my possession a box of 50 mg desvenlafaxine, and these are not capsules, in case I need less doses

[Kiasofia]

Can you put in your signature:

2021 Oct 5  Stopped Risperidone 1mg

2021 Oct 6 Reduced Venlafaxine from 150mg to 75mg

2021 Oct 8th Stopped Venlafaxine 75mg

Clotiazepam with dates and mg when you take it

 

How many hours a night are you able to sleep?

 

Did you notice a change in symptoms after stopping Risperidone?

 

When was your suicide attempt?

 

Did Venlafaxine make you feel worse than before you were taking it? What symptoms? If it was causing bad side effects it may not be good to reinstate.

 

It is not too late for you to reinstate Venlafaxine. It is best to do as soon as possible after quitting. Best if it has not been more than 3 months. But also later than that many people are able to reinstate. It is possible to use something similar, like desvenlafaxine. But the best is to use the same drug. That is the drug your body got used to taking and is missing.

 

It is important to start with only a very small dose to see how you react. Your brain has gotten sensitive from stopping venlafaxine and also starting and stopping other drugs. With the venlafaxine capsule, that has the little beads inside, it is often recommended to open it up and start taking only 5 beads to begin with. And then slowly increase depending on symptoms. 

 

More information about venlafaxine:

Tips for tapering off venlafaxine (Effexor)

[ingrid]

I'm sleeping "fine"...6-7 hours aprox... but there are days that I have trouble to falling asleep... I get too anxious, I get distressed, and sometimes I took a clotiazepam, but not always. (just in case, I didn't add the dates of the clotiazepam in the signature, because I'm not clear about them, from now on I will start to keep a record)... also I dream a lot ... not always nice things....

And no, I don't really notice any change after stopping Risperidone . 

 

The suicide attemp was ... a really long situation, not something that I just did. I hurt myself several times in different ways, in a span of hours that I lost consciousness of what I was doing... All that happened between November 18-19... and during this episode, i took several clonazepam

 

As to venlafaxine, well... at de begining, it made me feel low... I don't know how to explain this. Like a zombie...

but checking the side effects, I can tell that it made me feel drowsiness, tiredness, sweating, change in sexual desire (this was one of the most important to me),nightmares.... 

 

and what can I do instead,  if I don't reinstate? stay the same withaout any psy-drug? 

 

In any case, I don't have venlafaxine or a prescription to buy it ... I don't think the psychiatrist will give me one, since they switched me to desvenlafaxine  ....

 

I'm very confused about what to do... and I think that I don't have enough time to take a decisión clearly...

[Kiasofia]

If you reinstate or if you do not reinstate, it will take time for your brain to adjust and for you to feel ok again. So a lot of time is what is needed, no matter what you do.

 

Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization  

 

It is important to take care of yourself and be nice to your brain. Don't drink alcohol. Avoid caffeine and nicotine. There is a lot of research now about the connection between mental health and diet.

Gut health influences emotions, thinking

We have a self care section here:

Symptoms and self care topics  

 

Many find that taking magnesium and fish oil help:

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)
Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

Important topics about tests, supplements, treatments, diet

No matter what, you will need to find ways to deal with mental health without using drugs, since they do not help your symptoms and only make you worse. Your psychiatrist will continue to recommend new drugs. Different types of drugs. Safer and better drugs. But the truth is these drugs only work for some people and even then, not permanently. After that many people get worse from them and it would have been better never to have taken them.

 

If you got the borderline diagnosis after May 2020 then I would not believe it. You were under the influence of drugs and experiencing side effects/withdrawal effects. And even if you got the diagnosis before you took any antidepressant, there are many reasons we have symptoms that psychiatrists say are a mental disorder. It doesn't mean we will always be that way and it doesn't mean drugs will help. (To learn more: http://cepuk.org/ and https://madinspain.org/) 

 

Before deciding on reinstatement, it can be good to write a daily symptoms journal that shows what withdrawal symptoms you are having, when, how intense they are and post daily updates here for at least a week. Also write down when you take cloitazepam to help see if you are getting any symptoms from that.

 

Example:

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety (but less than yesterday)

Edited December 14, 2021 by Kiasofia

[ingrid]

Thanks for all de help and the information. I'm gonna start the diary with my symptoms as soon as possible...

Meanwhile. I'll continue reading all the information you sent me... 

I'll be in contact in case any eventuality. Really, thank you very much

[Kiasofia]

Good! Please post the diary here, when you start it. You can do it daily or post everything in one post after a few days. This is important if you want our advice on reinstatement.

 

Keep taking one day at a time❤️

[ingrid]

hi... i made a daily record... I lost the first 2 days because i wrote it in a notebook ... I'm gonna left the rest in here

 

16-dec    - I woke up at 5:40 because I was traveling that day

                - 08:12 i'm feeling anxious, I feel my chest tight

                - 13:03 I still feel anxious

                - 13:50 I'm arriving at my ex boyfriend's apartment, I guess this is what has me anxious... I hope that during the day this feeling decrease

                - 14:49 restless legs

                - 16:00 I had lunch, anxiety made it difficult to eat and made me feel nauseous

                - aroud 01:00 I fall asleep, I'm very tired

 

17 dec     - 01:53 I woke up scared

                - 04:00 I woke up, distressed

                - 08:20 I woke up sad, I try to go back to sleep

                - 10:30 I woke up definitely, anguished and without appetite

                - 11:45 I continue without hunger, I feel nervous

                - 15:00 I ate a yogurt

                - 16:00 very bad headache

                - 18:00 I'm feeling anxious, I feel my chest tight... I meet my friends

                - 20:52 headache

                - 03:00 i fall sleep

 

18 dec     - 10:30 I woke up

                - 11:00 upset stomach, feeling a lit anxious and nauseous

                - 12:00 headache

                - 13:00 not hungry, feeling very anxious, I've been crying a lot

                - 17:30 tachycardia

                - 19:50 anxious again, I think I still have tachycardia

                - 23:00 took 5 mg clotiazepam, so I can eat something

 

19 dec   I didn't register this day because I was very busy at the voting, but after that I feel happy and anxious ... and then sad... I sleep aroun 00:00

 

20 dic      - 09:37 I woke up feeling very anxious, with a bit tachycardia, a bit trembling hands, not hungry

                - 10:30 my apartment change begins

                - 15:00 lunch... I feel nauseous... and sad

                - 22:30 I eat something

                - 02:00 fall sleep

 

21 dec      - 06:00 I woke up, because I'm traveling today

                 - 09:00 eat some cherrys

                 - 10:30 drink a coffee, eat a cereal bar and some cherry

                 - 13:00 eat a donut

                 - 16:00 eat a sandwich

                 - 18:00 arrive to my parents' house

                 - 22:30 I start feeling anxious

 

22 dec     - 09:00 I woke up

                 - 10.30 eat breakfast

                 - 13:30 feeling anxious

                 - 14:30 lunch. I'm feeling nauseous and upset stomach

                 - 18:00 i feel irritable, I am bothered by sounds and people talking

                 - 

 

23 dec     - 10:30 I woke up

                 - 12:10 feeling hungry, but my stomach is upset

                 - 12:40 I feel distressed and I feel like crying

 

24 dec    - 09:30 I woke up

                - 10:30 I ate without hunger

                - 12:00 I argued with my mom, I reacted very badly ... she said very hurtful things to me

 

 

That's all I have... it is enough to know if I have to reinstate? I'm worried it's late for that

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by ChessieCat
increased font size

[Kiasofia]

Thank you for posting @ingrid

 

From Dec 16th until today Dec 27th, you have only taken clotiazepam one time (on Dec 18th)?

 

[ingrid]

yes I'm triying to take it only when I really feel that I need one...

today i had another episode and I lost  control... it was a discussion with my brother, and I tried to stay calm because I didn't want to fight... but he said very hurtful things to me ... like I'm crazy, "drugaddict" (because I was taking psydrugs), that he doesn't want that I "contaminate" his daughter... and other things that now I can't remember clearly... then i couldn't take it anymore, and I left the place slamming the door, but he followed me and kept saying hurtful things to me, so I replied mean things too,and the thing kept growing... so I took a knife and threatened him, but I didn't mean to do anything to him, so i put it aside right away, took my things and went to my bedroom... at that point I was crying uncontrollably, but he kept following me and saying things... 

I didn't want to be alone, but I think I have no choice but go to home, 2000 km away from here... and stay there, alone.

 

 

with all this things, and the things i post before... what's ur advice... what should I do with the "meds"

[ChessieCat]

50 minutes ago, ingrid said:

so I took a knife and threatened him

 

ingrid, you need to be very careful.  The consequence of you doing something like this is that you might end up in a psychiatric hospital/ward where they might give you drugs to sedate you.  And they might change the drugs/doses you are currently taking.

[ingrid]

Yes I know... it's one of the reasons why I think to return my home... I believe it's the best choice I have

[Kiasofia]

What ChessieCat is saying, happens to many people in your situation and tends to make the situation even worse. Please try to breathe and not react in the moment. Start exploring different methods of coping with your emotions. The fact that you feel them so intense and react this way is a reaction to coming off psych drugs. It is not who you are. But you have to deal with these emotions all the same.

 

Acknowledge, Accept, Float

EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques)

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

Pranayama Breathing for Anxiety and Depression

 

I think trying to manage without restarting "meds" is the safest option. You might want to try some Magnesium  and 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

. Avoid caffeine and alcohol. Eat as many vegetables as you can. Some find it helps to avoid sugar, wheat (gluten) and/or milk products. Edited December 29, 2021 by Kiasofia