Safran: Paxil 20 years

[Safran]

I have a long prolonged abstinence for more than 1.5 years. The situation is difficult and the more I go down with the lowering somehow it gets worse, and now I am on 6.2 mg. I have many different symptoms; okp, ocd, tinnitus, anxiety, fear, bad thoughts , panic, etc... Sometimes I think I have all possible symptoms. What bothers me the most now is if it's called medical anxiety. My stress is so strong and long-lasting and I just think about my physical problems. High pressure will never go away lower it and that gives me even more stress and that's all I'm thinking about. I'm so scared just to measure the pressure because I know it's high and now I measured 180/130, and I can't get out of that circle. Just fear, fear and stress. I would like an opinion, thank you.

[LostInCanada]

Hi @Safran paxil is a self metabolizer. That means when you reduce it speeds up its metabolism so your body thinks you are reducing even faster. Then of course withdrawal symptoms increase. Since the smaller doses are so powerful this makes it more difficult. You might have to take a break for a couple months just to give your body time to adjust more. Also doing less than a 10% reduction might make it a bit easier. Some use the Brassmonkey slide as well. You are doing really well. Be kind to yourself.

[Safran]

On 9/4/2023 at 10:04 PM, LostInCanada said:

Hi @Safran paxil is a self metabolizer. That means when you reduce it speeds up its metabolism so your body thinks you are reducing even faster. Then of course withdrawal symptoms increase. Since the smaller doses are so powerful this makes it more difficult. You might have to take a break for a couple months just to give your body time to adjust more. Also doing less than a 10% reduction might make it a bit easier. Some use the Brassmonkey slide as well. You are doing really well. Be kind to yourself.

Thank you very much LostInCanada, I already noticed that 10% doesn't suit me, so now I'm at about 2.5% reduction per month. I have constant stress (fear, anxiety) from this condition and it causes me other physical illnesses, and it only goes to circle, blood pressure, problems with liver enzymes, digestive problems. And so in a circle. Every day is a special struggle for survival for me, it's really hard, but what are my options, because I want to be without these drugs. Now I'm on 6.14mg and I only reduce 2.5% and again it's not easy.

[LostInCanada]

@Safran I totally understand. I am now trying 1.25% every 2 weeks to see how that will work. I had to hold this last cut 6 weeks. Just listen to your body. 👍

[Hope2001]

I have tried almost ten blood pressure medicine. I cant tolerate any meds, including blood pressure meds. I hope you have better situation. Dont be scared bc of my experience.

[Safran]

21 hours ago, Hope2001 said:

I have tried almost ten blood pressure medicine. I cant tolerate any meds, including blood pressure meds. I hope you have better situation. Dont be scared bc of my experience.

I don't know what to do about high blood pressure anymore, because I can't lower it at all. I drink Ramipril, but it didn't lower anything, and there is a possibility that it added to my insomnia, anxiety and depression. Today, the doctor prescribed Candesartan for me to try. but I'm already skeptical. I'm constantly in a state of fear, panic, stress, intrusive thoughts, anxiety and all of that doesn't let me relax and it puts a lot of pressure on me and it lasts for months. There's no window in me, just a wave and I don't know how long the body can withstand it. I'm thinking about whether to return the dose a little, but I'm afraid of that too. As I'm writing this, the anxiety is only increasing, I'm just so sensitive to everything.

[Hope2001]

Those havent done anything to my bp. I dont know why, those just do not work. I have decided to lay, my bp is ok then usually. I cant stand.

[Safran]

Lately, my condition has worsened. Anxiety with severe depression followed by increased tinnitus, which reminds me of my condition, because of which I started taking Paxil and it scares me a lot. The only window, if I could call it that, is when I was a little better, it was 2 weeks ago and then this drop now in the last couple of days. Otherwise, I've been in the wave for about 1.5 years. It's really hard for me and I don't know what to do, and the doctor says that I should take a new pill because I've never tried SRNI and like them drugs work better than the SSRI Paxil. Some advice, some experience or opinion, anything, because I need some support.Thanks.

[LostInCanada]

@Safran please read about others on SNRIs on here. Wellbutrin is the main one. It is the same nightmare as all the others.

Reading through your thread it seems you dropped way to fast and have never given your body time to stabilize. 

I would not taper any more until you stabilize completely. This could take 6 months of no changes. In fact I would consider a small updose. What dose are you at now? Also once you are stable, the brass monkey slide method would be better and also try a smaller overall reduction like 5%.

[Safran]

25 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

@Safranpročitajte o drugima o SNRI-ima ovdje. Wellbutrin je glavni. To je ista noćna mora kao i svi ostali.

Čitajući vašu temu čini se da ste prebrzo pali i nikada niste dali svom tijelu vremena da se stabilizuje. 

Ne bih se više smanjivao dok se potpuno ne stabilizirate. Ovo bi moglo potrajati 6 mjeseci bez promjena. U stvari, razmislio bih o malom povećanju doze. U kojoj si dozi sada? Takođe, kada ste stabilni, metoda klizanja od mesinga majmuna bi bila bolja i pokušajte sa manjim ukupnim smanjenjem kao što je 5%.

I don't know, maybe it was too fast and now I'm on 5.98 mg since October and I'm not reducing it because I can't stabilize, and the last 2 weeks the condition has gotten worse.

[LostInCanada]

So we're you feeling better in September? If yes, then I would try a small updose to 6.05mg. If you updose or not, it is important not to taper till your withdrawal symptoms have gotten much better. At least 6 months. Changing drugs will throw you into worse withdrawals from paxil and possible side effects from the new drug. You will not be better.

[Safran]

9 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

So we're you feeling better in September? If yes, then I would try a small updose to 6.05mg. If you updose or not, it is important not to taper till your withdrawal symptoms have gotten much better. At least 6 months. Changing drugs will throw you into worse withdrawals from paxil and possible side effects from the new drug. You will not be better.

I hope, God willing, that I will never have to take a new drug, and the very thought scares me, and in September I was just as bad, only without this much depression, and I was better, which looked like a window two weeks ago, and then a crash a few days ago, and now I'm here. I'll try to hold on as long as I can to try some kind of stabilization, I hope. Thank you for your answers because they mean a lot to me, I wish you the best of luck.

[Safran]

My condition has worsened a lot and it's like I'm in acute withdrawal. It reminds me of my original condition. Could inner restlessness, anxiety be part of the withdrawal. I increased the dose from 6 to 6.5 mg 5 days ago, but I don't feel any improvement. No. I know what to do. Has anyone recognized this and some support would be great.I would be grateful if neo replies

[LostInCanada]

@Safran just be patient. It can take a couple weeks to feel the effects. 6.5 mg is a large jump. I had mentioned 6.05mg. Is it worse since the updose? Please update your signature. 

[Safran]

I really don't know what to do anymore. I don't think this is a withdrawal yet and things are getting very difficult. I'm on the sofa all day and I can't do anything, neither TV nor phone, and only sometimes it calms down a little. Depression, anhedomia, apathy and very strong ocd with constant anxiety and tinnitus. In addition to all this, the inner restlessness does not allow me to even lie on the sofa. I am thinking about increasing the dose and sometimes I have to take a benzo.

[LostInCanada]

3 hours ago, Safran said:

can't do anything, neither TV nor phone,

I was like this for months after my reinstatement. Too be honest I still have days like this. I really believe your body is struggling to find homeostasis and it will lessen in time. I believe Claire Weekes thoughts on this helped me. Face, accept, float, take time. If you haven't looked into her stuff please do. No one deserves what these drugs do. But you have done well getting here. 👍

[Safran]

2 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

I was like this for months after my reinstatement. Too be honest I still have days like this. I really believe your body is struggling to find homeostasis and it will lessen in time. I believe Claire Weekes thoughts on this helped me. Face, accept, float, take time. If you haven't looked into her stuff please do. No one deserves what these drugs do. But you have done well getting here. 👍

Thank you for your support LC.

[Safran]

I really don't know where I am anymore. Almost two years of hard withdrawal and then some relief for a few days, as if it was a window, and after that it got worse and I was confined to bed for two months. Strong anxiety along with other symptoms does not allow me to do the same, no TV or book, I just look at the ceiling and wait for the night to come when it will be a little easier.

[Sebas]

On 11/22/2023 at 6:57 PM, Safran said:

I drink Ramipril, but it didn't lower anything, and there is a possibility that it added to my insomnia, anxiety and depression

Thats not a possibility but a certainty. For example see https://www.ehealthme.com/drug-interaction/paroxetine/ramipril/. Be careful and hesitant with any drug you combine with paxil especially during tapering. If certain health issues occur as a result of tapering (as in: withdrawal symptoms) then just accept and move on. Fighting them with other drugs is a bad strategy (unless life threatening or underlaying medical conditions). 

[Safran]

42 minutes ago, Sebas said:

It is not a possibility but a certainty. For example, see https://www.ehealthme.com/drug-interaction/paroxetine/ramipril/ . Be careful and hesitant with any medication you combine with paxil, especially during tapering. If certain health issues arise as a result of tapering off (as in: withdrawal symptoms), then just accept it and move on. Fighting them with other drugs is a poor strategy (unless life-threatening or medical conditions exist).

Thanks Sebas.

[Safran]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:26 PM, Safran said:

Thanks Sebas.

 

[Safran]

I have been taking about 6.50 mg for 4 months, but there is no stabilization and I am no longer sure what to do next. It is as if I am in an acute state or this is just my original illness and it is not a withdrawal. Internal restlessness (the biggest problem that totally disables me from being able to function ), depression, anxiety, tinnitus, pressure in the head, pain in the head in all possible places, strange heat in the body and other symptoms paralyze me. I've been out of work for 2 years, I can't go to the store or anywhere, completely socially excluded. Surviving day to day and waiting 23 hours in the evening to sometimes feel better, I lost almost 20 kg. How will I ever get better if the problem is my disease and not withdrawal and is the solution to go back to the full dose or maybe the paxil has stopped to act, full of questions and I don't know the answer.

[Sebas]

1 hour ago, Safran said:

It is as if I am in an acute state or this is just my original illness and it is not a withdrawal. Internal restlessness (the biggest problem that totally disables me from being able to function ), depression, anxiety, tinnitus, pressure in the head, pain in the head in all possible places, strange heat in the body and other symptoms paralyze me.

Definitely withdrawal. Is there anything you consume like caffein, theine, chocolate, grapefruit, alcohol or certain supplements or other medicine?

[Sebas]

1 hour ago, Safran said:

is the solution to go back to the full dose or maybe the paxil has stopped to act, full of questions and I don't know the answer.

Going back or changing dose is no solution. You need to search for the reason why withdrawal is persisting so long (allthough sometimes it can just take such a long time to restabilize). If paxil stops to act you will feel constant dizzyness. All the others is more likely just severe withdrawal.

[LostInCanada]

4 hours ago, Safran said:

maybe the paxil has stopped to act

This could be a possibility. The drug may have pooped out. @Sebasis in poop out. I think I may be as well. This seems to be inevitable after being on a drug so long. Because of your CNS being sensitive whether from poop out or tapering, adding anything could be problematic. 

It is so hard. I have moments of being overwhelmed and wondering if I will ever be myself again. But others have been worse and in so many drugs and have gotten through so we can do it too. Do you think the updose worsened things? Made it better? No change? 

I know if in poop out you have to slowly continue to taper. As the drug lowers the symptoms lessen. 

[Safran]

5 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

This could be a possibility. The drug may have pooped out. @Sebasis in poop out. I think I may be as well. This seems to be inevitable after being on a drug so long. Because of your CNS being sensitive whether from poop out or tapering, adding anything could be problematic. 

It is so hard. I have moments of being overwhelmed and wondering if I will ever be myself again. But others have been worse and in so many drugs and have gotten through so we can do it too. Do you think the updose worsened things? Made it better? No change? 

I know if in poop out you have to slowly continue to taper. As the drug lowers the symptoms lessen. 

I haven't been better since starting the dose in December. The only thing I've felt in all this time is from March 2 to March 7 a slight relief of symptoms, I don't know if I would call it a window, and then until today it's like an acute episode

[Safran]

8 hours ago, Sebas said:

Going back or changing dose is no solution. You need to search for the reason why withdrawal is persisting so long (allthough sometimes it can just take such a long time to restabilize). If paxil stops to act you will feel constant dizzyness. All the others is more likely just severe withdrawal.

I don't have constant dizziness, but I used to feel it sometimes

[Safran]

8 hours ago, Sebas said:

Definitely withdrawal. Is there anything you consume like caffein, theine, chocolate, grapefruit, alcohol or certain supplements or other medicine?

I consume dark chocolate in the evening, which contains maltitol instead of sugar, I drink cranberry and ginger tea, and supplements q10 200mg (due to blood pressure). magnesium 200mg, vitamin d 800 iq, omega3 3 to 4 capsules a day

[Sebas]

7 minutes ago, Safran said:

consume dark chocolate in the evening, which contains maltitol instead of sugar, I drink cranberry and ginger tea, and supplements q10 200mg (due to blood pressure). magnesium 200mg, vitamin d 800 iq, omega3 3 to 4 capsules a day

It's not the sugar or maltitol in the chocolate but several medicinal substances that influence the functioning of serotonin and dopamine among others. Chocolate is absolute no go. For me ginger and cranberry (both anti inflammatory superfoods) and tea (caffein) would also be a no go. Try without for a couple of days and see if your symptoms become less. I bet they will. If your CNS has become oversensitive these substances will disrupt stability whereas in general there's nothing wrong with them. 

 

[LostInCanada]

2 hours ago, Safran said:

chocolate

It has caffeine which is a stimulant so definitely not good.

2 hours ago, Safran said:

vitamin d

Unless you have a deficiency this is an activator for many 

1 hour ago, Sebas said:

supplements q10

This one can be problematic as well.

 

I am fine with ginger and cranberry.( As long as no black or green tea is added)

So I would definitely drop chocolate, vit D, and q10.