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Panther Escitalopram (Lexapro) withdrawal or relapse?


Panther

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Hi members ! I am new on this forum. I am a 25year old male . I would like to ask for help if it is possible becuse right now i am feeling very hopeless.

 I Have been taking 10 mg escitalopram for 1 year. i tried to quit 2 times (this was my second attempt) but it did not succeed. Before the medication i had mainly bad anxiety and bad depression too for a half year and it could be that this drug helped me (although i dont really believe in serotonin hypothesis). But  i learned  exposition therapy and i also thought that it was which healed my anxiety . But because when i learned this new strong mindset about exposure therapy i already started lexapro and my Psychiatrist told me that of course it was the drug so i cant say which was the main force. My first try to quit from lexapro was really bad i did a taper from 10to 5 mg within 2weeks. After that  2weeks with 2.5mg than things had gotten really REALLY bad i think worse than before the escitalopram. I reinstated at 10mg and in a week or two i was "fine again". But last time on 22. on december in 2022 i decided to wean off myself because it does not make me happy at all and causing some side effects. I read this site but in my country there is not any kind of liquid source and also i thought (foolishly) i can do a faster taper. I only wanted go down to 5mg from 10 and after if everything is OK i will wean myself completely  later. I took 10 mg on day1 7.5mg on day2 for 1 week. After that 7.5mg for 1 week. Than 7.5mg and 5mg on day 1 and day2 for 1 week. At this dosage some lightheadness started with insomnia and brain fog but i continued because with some benzos and zolpidem they were managable. After that i hit the 5mg and things have gotten worse . There were depression and anxiety too but after weeks they became stronger and stronger. Yesterday after 2 months i hit the hell  debilitating depression anxiety ,chills, 0apetite. I am hoping that this could be also withdrawal and not relapse because i want to live without meds and i think the lot work i did for my anxiety was myself and not the drug. Yesterday i gave it up and reinstated the original dosage 10mg and today too.. I far from good, but i am better a little bit yet. Honestly i know i a have to live with some anxiety and depression but i think i could manage that not to mention that my life needs  a lot of repair too which i have to do on my own (finding a nice partner mainly) but this debilitating depression, sadness, anxiety what i got again makes me sad and tries to believe me that it was and it is all the 10mg escitalopram which helpes me not my self improovement and therapie.  Sorry for the long text and the possible grammar mistakes but english is not my mother language.

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Altostrata changed the title to Panther Escitalopram (Lexapro) withdrawal or relapse?
  • Administrator

Welcome, @Panther

 

As you have recounted, you developed withdrawal symptoms as you decreased escitalopram. Obviously, this got worse as you tapered further, as will happen in withdrawal. Sudden anxiety, chills, and appetite loss are typical of withdrawal syndrome but not typical of relapse, which emerges more gradually (and usually does not cause chills).

 

Also typical in withdrawal syndrome is that reinstatement of an earlier dose will resolve the withdrawal symptoms. If 10mg immediately helped a little, it's likely that over some weeks, withdrawal symptoms will gradually disappear.

 

For your information, here are Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

Please let us know when you want to taper off a psychiatric drug.

 

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 3 months later...

Hello !

I decided now to quit this stuff and therefore i made a bigger drop from 10mg to 5mg 5 days ago. Last time in my opinion was not exactly withdrawal from the escitalopram because i foolishly had withdrawn from phenibut. Now i am free from all other substences (except cigarette and coffee) and i want finally put this down too. The thing is that after 5 days i feel a little anxiety wave at night but not much(especially not like from phenibut or benzos) but yet i am anxious that it wont be better. I know its a 50%deop but i consider myself as a strong person. The only thing which scares me and i wrote it last time, that it is not exactly withdrawal but relapse. Even if i sont believe in this serotonin hypothesis my mind is confised about it.

Thanks a lot for any comment

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Moderator Emeritus

@Panther Please stop tapering. Going from 10 mg to 5 mg Lexapro is too high a drop in dose. 

 

SSRI antidepressants, such as Lexapro, are known for a delayed withdrawal. You may not feel the full force of this drop for several weeks or even several months. But when you do get hit with withdrawal, it may be severe enough to disable you. That's not to scare you or say you're not strong enough to handle it. This is simply what we've seen play out on the withdrawal forums for years. And from what you've written in your first post on this site, your prior withdrawal history indicates you had developed a dependency to this drug. Note that continuing to make abrupt changes may destabilize your nervous system, leading to hypersensitivity and even nervous system kindling (trauma to the nervous system). Please see:

 

Hypersensitivity and Kindling

 

I would go back up to 7.5 mg at the least and see how you feel. You may need to reinstate the full amount. It's important to do this now - updoses work better the closer you are to the decrease. As time passes, reinstatements are less likely to work as well. Once you're stable, we recommend tapering at no faster than 10% off the prior month's dose (not the originally prescribed dose).

 

Here are some helpful links:

 

Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

How psychiatric drugs remodel your brain

 

Are you currently taking any other psychiatric drugs or pain medications? Please let us know your drug history. As Alto wrote in her previous post above: To help us out, follow these instructions:

 

Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

Once we know your history, we can give you more targeted advice. 

 

 

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On 5/21/2023 at 10:49 AM, Panther said:

bigger drop from 10mg to 5mg 5 days ago

Hi Panther. I am also coming off Lexapro and I would really advise you not to make such big cuts. I'm glad you feel ok for now, but in my experience, withdrawal symptoms from a cut in dose do not hit until 9-10 days later. So being on Day 5 and feeling fine really doesn't mean much unfortunately.

 

I am not trying to discourage you, but look at what you wrote just a couple of months ago.  

 

On 2/7/2023 at 5:50 AM, Panther said:

 After that i hit the 5mg and things have gotten worse . There were depression and anxiety too but after weeks they became stronger and stronger. Yesterday after 2 months i hit the hell  debilitating depression anxiety ,chills, 0apetite.

 

Please listen to Shep. You do not want to have to reinstate and upset your system further. If you do run into problems please please please check in with the mods before you do a reinstatement and don't go back up to 10 mg. That could be disastrous for you.

 

On 5/21/2023 at 10:49 AM, Panther said:

i consider myself as a strong person

 

We are all strong people here. You have a physical dependence on the drug. It doesn't matter how strong you are, mentally or physically, this stuff can still give you a big kicking.

 

 

With care and compassion

from another Lexapro victim.

HISTORY

1995 - 2006: One at a time I've tried Zoloft, a MAOI for a short time, Cipramil, and Effexor for a short time (hell)

Lexapro career began 2006: 10 mg. 2014↘️tapered over months to less than 5 mg by cutting tablets and skipping doses. GP convinced me to ↗️to 10mg. 2018↗️20 mg. 2022↗️30 mg. 2021 Occasional 75 mg Lyrica for anxiety. 
Dec 2022: Trial 5 mg dextroamphetamine once a day. Began Lex taper Dec 22: 30 mg↘️20 mg (no symptoms). Jan 2023 dextroamphetamine 5mg x 3 daily. Switched to 40 mg Lisdexamfetamine Aug 23 due to international travel.

CURRENT

Daily: Lisdexamfetamine 40 mg once a day, Doxycycline 50 mg for skin (am) Supps: Fish oil. Magnesium and Turmeric, Women's 50+ multi (pm)

Occasional: Panadol/Nurofen/Meloxicam for headaches/arthritis; doxylamine for sleep

Lexapro taper 2023 16 Jan ↘️10 mg, (bad physical WDs) 27 Jan↗️15 mg 13 Feb↘️12 mg. 6 Mar↘️10 mg 20 Mar➡️crossover to liquid 31 Mar↘️8.5 mg. 24 Apr↘️7.25 mg. 17 May↘️7 mg. 31 May↘️6 mg, 6 week hold Switch to slide 10 July↘️5.8↘️5.6↘️5.4mg 7 Aug↘️5.2↘️5.1↘️5mg. Crossover to generic tablets from 4 Sept 23. Still holding at 5 mg, 27 Dec 23.

 

Anything I write here is my opinion based on my experiences. It is not medical advice.

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Thank you guys for the answers i appreciate them! The night when i wrote the post i hit a massive anxiety wave. It was monstrous. I had to clenche my teeth to survive that terror anxiety wave. After that i was so tired that never before, but soon after i heard a "click" in my brain. It happened before when (and now i am 100% sure about it)  after a benzodiazeppin cold turkey i suffered 3months non stop not knowing that i am going through a benzowithdrawal. This click when i experienced was the moment for me when i realized my mind got back in the control and of course it was not the former """disorder of mine""" but the withdrawal from the sh!t i took. Now i feel OK except small fluctuations but i know these will disappear. Its a confident feeling i cant explain but i feel my mind is closer on the good track. Everybody who see this post: please do the 10% taper instead of this. The reason i have done this is because i am really inpatient about this poison and want to get rid of it ASAP. Now i am planning to stabilize on 5mg for a while and then kill it absolutely. What do you think how long should i wait on 5mg before attacking the remaining 5? I only can taper with maximum 1.25mg increments.

Best of you!

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Administrator

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
16 hours ago, Panther said:

It happened before when (and now i am 100% sure about it)  after a benzodiazeppin cold turkey i suffered 3months non stop not knowing that i am going through a benzowithdrawal.

 

When did you stop benzos? As Alto posted, we need to know your drug history.

 

Please summarize your drug and withdrawal history in your signature

 

16 hours ago, Panther said:

What do you think how long should i wait on 5mg before attacking the remaining 5? I only can taper with maximum 1.25mg increments.

 

You can taper much more slowly. Please read the first post in this thread:

 

Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

Please note that simply getting rid of this poison, as you put it, isn't the end of the game. Far from it. PAWS, Protected Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome, can last for months to a number of years. And since you're also dealing with benzo withdrawal, that can make it much more complicated. There are delayed symptoms, which are symptoms that can happen after you stop the drug, especially common amongst cold turkey and rapid tapers and those dealing with polypharmacy. 

 

What you're doing is extremely dangerous. Keep in mind that a part of being strong is being smart and strategic, not blindly stopping these drugs thinking that you can soldier your way through a rapid taper. As someone who spent many years recovering from a series of rapid tapers and cold turkeys, I can tell you the damage is severe. I wish I had come across this site before I began getting off these drugs. I urge you not to make the same mistakes I did. 

 

I'm unclear why you joined this site. Are you interested in a moderator helping you with your taper? If not, you may want to join a social support forum, such as Benzo Buddies. 

 

If you'd like to work with a moderator here, you're more than welcome. But we need you to slow down and read the links we post. We also need you to set up a signature. 

 

 

 

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I absolutely understand the importance of the signature but the big problem is that i did not use drugs frequently. In 2018 i took venlafaxin(velaxin,effexor) for 3-max4 months then quit with  real fast taper without problems. After that i took mirtazapin(rameron,mirzaten) for 2months and quit also without problems.Until 2020 i basically did not take anything. In 2020 i began to take benzos more and more frequent. I have NEVER taken benzos daily because i was familiar with the danger of them and i only took it at nights to "chill out". My life was a mess and i needed to turn my head off. It was much more recreationally. I took all kind of benzos - diazepam, clonazepam, alprazolam(most of the time like xanax),temazepam, midazolam, cinazolam, nitrazepam,... i also used Z-drugs like ambien(zolpidem) strictly for recreational purposes. And when i stood up and started to achieve my goals in my life instead of knocking myself out with drugs at night sadly these drugs took a revenge on me. I will never forget that night on 2021 september 28 when it began. I did not know it is benzo withdrawal because i thought i could only be dependent when i take them daily more times and if its withdrawal i will know that. I was wrong, but i did not know that. My idiot psychiatrist put me on a really small dose of quetiapine because when i talked him about the waves he thought these are signs of a mild bipolar disorder(he was not concerned about  that it has not happened anything like this to me before that). I was so scared that  basically i stopped taking benzos after that which resulted in a CT of them. Its hard to say what dosage did i take because like i said i took all kind of benzos infrequently , but most of the time i took 0.75-1mg alprazolam or 10-20mg zolpidem. Lets say at every 2or3rd night 1 benzo and every 2nd night a zolpidem. Sh!t started when i decided to stop this bad habit an reduced my alprazolam dosage to .5mg. After that I swithced to another psychiatrist becuse even if i lived in a benzo terror withdrawal i know that seroquel is something really not good stuff for me,i am not bipolar or anything. The another psychiatrist of course did not suspect the benzos even if i told her that i used them for about 1 year(infrequently). She put me on 10mg lexapro. That was the time i think when i started to get over on benzo wd but sadly i was on lexapro and of course the psychiarist told me that the escitalopram is working well and therefore i am feeling better....Even my life wa sgetting better and better i did stupid thing again. After a bad brakeup i decided to stop this useless lexaplacebo and started to take 300mg tramadol daily for about 1 month. Of course when i run out I got a CT wd from it and because i was fast tapering from lexapro i took 2.5mg on it. Sure thing that my psychiatrist told me anxiety and depression came back beacuse i quit lexapro and i need it ... after this it  was the point when i realized how stupid i was and did not understand that i was going thrugh withdrawals, but i went back to 10mg.  But it was not enough for me because later (when i wrote the first post) i was abusing phenibut. It was good and i loved it. Its a real antidepressant not like this ****, but of course the horse-dosages which i took cost in another wd. And of course my stupid head started to come off of escitalopram when i started getting wd from phenibut. Of course i thought that these are the wd effect of escit. and therefore i took more phenibut to counteract it... and i think you know the story from here... hopefully the phenibut wd was much shorter but i got back on 10mg. For now i am really angry at myself. I threw away any stuff and got rid off my extreme bad habits. But 2 quitting attempt did not make any good for me i think... now i only take this placebo poison (i dont count caffein as ba and cigarette will be the next thing after lexa i will quit). So basically thats my story and sorry for being so long but in my opinion i can not make a signature like  taking benzos from xx-yy because its not the case.

Thanks again for the answers!

 

I'm unclear why you joined this site. Are you interested in a moderator helping you with your taper? If not, you may want to join a social support forum, such as Benzo Buddies. 

Im interested yes but the reason i posted is like i said i think my situation is a bit different like the most of on this site who  took antidepressants for a reason. And they were not so stupid (hopefully x)  ) to get trapped with another drugs which masked their wd.

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Administrator

Help the staff out. We still need you to summarize your psychiatric drug history in your signature.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
21 hours ago, Panther said:

I absolutely understand the importance of the signature but the big problem is that i did not use drugs frequently.

 

This is confusing because in your first post, you wrote:

 

On 2/6/2023 at 2:50 PM, Panther said:

I Have been taking 10 mg escitalopram for 1 year.

 

That sounds like you took escitalopram frequently for a year, correct?

 

Prior to that, you took a lot of erratically dosed benzos and z-drugs. And there's a history of pain drugs, as well. 

 

Please list your antidepressant history for the escitalopram in your signature. Also add in the date you started using benzos and the date you stopped, if you're no longer using them. Do this also for the pain drugs. 

 

Without this timeline, it's impossible to give you advice. 

 

 

 

 

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I have uploaded. May i ask that what are the signs of kindling? I mean i abused sadly a lot of stuff  erratically and i feel like if i have a hangoover from alcohol the anxiety hits me much more harder than before, when it was almost total phisically not mentally (a bad hangoover).

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Moderator Emeritus
15 hours ago, Panther said:

May i ask that what are the signs of kindling?

 

This means you may hyper-react or have paradoxical reactions to supplements, drugs, foods, etc. that you used to be able to tolerate. You may be very sensitive to light, noise, smells, etc. 

 

 

 

 

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For example i think even lemon balm(which is quite not a powerfull stuff) can hit me hard an like i said hangoovers are way worse than before. Btw i past the 2weeks mark on monday. I hope that i can hold on lexapro 5mg. My appetite came back and stronger libido a bit (though im glad to say i did not have big problems on this area) , and i feel like i am more "human". Emotions are stronger but i mean them in a good way.

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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oh btw short after this post i had a very bad anxiety wave... its a tough ride....

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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How often do people experience flu-like symptoms while wd-ing? I can not measure my temperature right now but i feel like if i had some flu. Hot temperature, and my joints also hurt a little (yesterday they hurt more). I have nausea also and 0/10 appetite.

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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Hi Panther, I’m also tapering Lexapro. Now I have been at 0.65mg for about a month. Especially if I don’t take enough rest, I can get these flu like symptoms like hot flashes, muscle pain, sore sinuses. I also very easily get nausea. It just seems the immune system has more difficulty keeping viruses out and the body healthy. So I can relate to what you’re experiencing. Take care and hope you feel better soon

2018 - started with Lexapro 10 mg tablets, increased from 5 mg to 8 mg

2020 - first attempt of tapering, but quickly reinstated initial dose. Moved to 20mg/ml drops. 

2022 - tapering as of January from 8 mg, October 2022 - 0.90 mg, 2023, May & June - 0.65 mg 

2023 June 23 - 0.6 mg Lexapro, 2023 August 5 - 0.59 mg Lexapro, 2023 September 1 - 0.5mg Lexapro, 2023 November 1 - 0.48mg

2024 January 15 - 0.40mg

 

Manasatva 3 tablets a day

Ashwaganda and Immunogen Ayurvedic supplements 2 tablets a day and vitamin D - 1 tablet a day

 

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Ok, so i am at 3weeks right now and i regret the big drop. Its getting worse and worse. I think i try to manage out 1 more week. What do u thinka now, should i reinstate at 7.5mg or just hold this 5mg?

Sorry guys i was really impatient i know i cant believe these stuffs are so incredible hard to quit.

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Moderator Emeritus
Quote

2022.01.28 10mg escitalopram until now( actually at 5mg and tapering down). In 2022 from juni to july started tapering escitlopram and taking 300mg tramadol almost daily, then CT-d bad wd-d from tramadol (probably not from escitalopram)and went back to escitalopram 10mg. After that popping sometimes benzos and phenibut started tapering escitalopram but  CT-d from phenibut and wd-d from it, back again to 10mg escitalopram. By now 0 benzo, only very few times phenibut and tapering down escitalopram.

 

@Panther This is the last line in your signature. This is very confusing. 

 

Please list the drugs and the doses you were taking. Please use this format to list any drugs you were taking over the past few months as follows: 

 

January 1, 2023 - drug name and dose

February 1, 2023 - drug name and dose

March 1, 2023 - drug name and dose

April 1, 2023 - drug name and dose

May 1, 2023 - drug name and dose

June 1, 2023 - drug name and dose

 

The further you were out from stopping, the lower the reinstatement will be. Your reinstatement dose will be based on when you last were on the drug and what dose you stopped at. So we really need this information in a very clear list.

 

 

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Updated. I think i can see the end of the tunnel i will try to stay on 5mg for a while until my nervous system gets stabilized and then im gonna get fully rid off this placebo horsesh!t which only can cause withdrawal and side effects but 0 i say again 0 therepautic effect. But right now i suffer from stressfull life events. I failed two important exam of mine and i am really in bad mood, like the mood i was when i started taking tramadol. And honestly at these times a real antidepressant like ketamine or DXM would be useful to me.

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Moderator Emeritus
16 hours ago, Panther said:

And honestly at these times a real antidepressant like ketamine or DXM would be useful to me.

 

Ketamine and DXM are not "real" antidepressants. It's just a continuation of the already-failed medical model of "treating" so called "mental illness."

 

I would research this thoroughly before subjecting your nervous system to more drugs. 

 

On 6/5/2023 at 2:49 PM, Panther said:

Ok, so i am at 3weeks right now and i regret the big drop. Its getting worse and worse. I think i try to manage out 1 more week. What do u thinka now, should i reinstate at 7.5mg or just hold this 5mg?

Sorry guys i was really impatient i know i cant believe these stuffs are so incredible hard to quit.

 

You have this in your signature - May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram until now

 

What dose were you at prior to May 15th? How long were you at this prior dose? 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Ketamine and DXM are not "real" antidepressants. It's just a continuation of the already-failed medical model of "treating" so called "mental illness."

 

I would research this thoroughly before subjecting your nervous system to more drugs. 

 

 

You have this in your signature - May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram until now

 

What dose were you at prior to May 15th? How long were you at this prior dose? 

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Its there.

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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Ketamine could be a useful help. There are situation where you would need something to "run up your engine" like an engine starter. People who do not have support and/or live alone might have benefits from effective stuffs like that. The key is to use them just for short term until you are closer to the right track in my opinion (like an engine starter i said). After a bad brakeup tramadol helped me immensely but of course its far from the most effective stuff and i abused so got wasted with it. Thererore i am thinking about help like these. Long term you are the only one who can solve tge problems thats for sure.

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Administrator

Are you feeling better now on 5mg?

 

Generally, we recommend people whose nervous systems have been upset by mishaps from psychiatric drugs to avoid experimenting with other drugs. You can try ketamine, phenibut, psilocybin, whatever -- at your own risk. We don't know anything about them. If you have a bad reaction, we cannot offer peer support for it or rescue you from it.

 

Please let us know when you want to taper a psychiatric drug.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Are you feeling better now on 5mg?

 

Generally, we recommend people whose nervous systems have been upset by mishaps from psychiatric drugs to avoid experimenting with other drugs. You can try ketamine, phenibut, psilocybin, whatever -- at your own risk. We don't know anything about them. If you have a bad reaction, we cannot offer peer support for it or rescue you from it.

 

Please let us know when you want to taper a psychiatric drug.

Thanks, I am good in relation to escitalopram withdrawal. Tomorrow will be the 1month checkmark. I think my brain managed to combat it and will be ready to conquer the last 5mg soon. But of course i will wait a month at least before further taper and definitely going as slow as i can. This drop was heavy, these stuffs are comparable to benzo withdrawals which is crazy because the idiot psychiatrists say they recommend ssris instead of benzos because they do not cause withdrawals....😴 BTW ketamine and psylocibin is absolutely not available in our country so i can not try them. Phenibut on the another hand is some evil thing short relief but heavy and long rebound its just not worth it, only if u can use it extremely rarely and occasionally at low dosage( which i can not). The only thing i would need them to combat my anger and sadness(for what i started to take venlafaxin 5-6 years ago useless), its just crazy difficult to control for me..😔

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Administrator

Antidepressant withdrawal is not easier than benzo withdrawal, and the benzo community does people a disservice by claiming so.

 

Please read Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi guys! Tomorrow will be the 2nd month checkmark after decreasing my dosage from 10 to 5mg. I think i am ready for the final blow. I think i will wait one more month an than will reduce my dosage further.

1: The only problem is the reducing thing. The 5mg tablet is so tiny that i cant even brake it in half, and my problem with liquid tapering is that i am not sure if i drop the tablets in water it will dissolve equally in it. In our country the drug name which i take is Scippa (Lexapro In Hungary).

2: I have a second question : What do you think how much will be more difficult to reduce the dosage below 5mg compared to below 10mg? I know its not an exact quetsion but if you can tell some  own experience then please dont hesitate.

Best of all!

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Administrator
1 hour ago, Panther said:

What do you think how much will be more difficult to reduce the dosage below 5mg compared to below 10mg?

 

Reduction is much more difficult at the lower doses. if you've already had withdrawal symptoms, decreasing from 5mg to zero is very high risk. These topics explain why


Why taper? SERT transporter occupancy studies show importance of gradual change in plasma concentration
 

Discussion of a scientific journal article with data supporting a very gradual taper. 

 

We advise 10% reductions per month, calculated on the last dose, so the reductions keep getting smaller.

 

Read this, it explains how to make small doses to taper Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 3 months later...

Hi guys again! Checking in. On monday i bit the bullet and said to myself lets finish this. I waited so long because i hoped i will get some free time out from my really stressfull work but no chance for it. I have to do it besides my job. Like i said before in Hungary there is no chance for liquid form and dissolving the tablet is not worth the risk so i took a scalpel and cut the tablet in 4 little pieces approximately 1.25mg each of them. So i started to take 3.75 mg. Until this day withdrawals are not so heavy like when i cut from 10 to 5mg but its been only 5 days. I will try to reach 2.5 mg in a month. Staying at 3.75mg would be worse because of the dose dumping(inaccurate pill cutting). I have a question though. I found these graphs for escitalopram and tried to fit a line on it to measure the slope of it to guess """ how heavy the withdrawals could be""" compared to the slope from 10 to 5mg what do u think is this graph accurate enough to make assumption ?

Bests

Panther

escit.png

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Administrator

You cannot imagine how bad withdrawal can be. That is why we're telling you to be cautious. You can, of course, do whatever you want.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I dropped down to 2.5mg. I will try to maintain this dosage for a while and then will begin the final blow.

Best of ya

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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Right now i am experiencing the following symptoms: light to moderate vertigo, nausea. Light muscle pain at my back. Sometimes a little heart palpitation. Anxiety has not been heavy until this moment.I can manage that btw like my previous symptoms but they are really annoying. First question: When i take NAC it seems that it helps with the wds. But i cannot understand why does NAC help with that. it should only help with GABAergic wds. My second question is : yesterday afternoon i got this "light high" feeling. I experienced this also when i started taking this drug and basically at every time when i tapered a bit. I think this is the "window". Can somebody confirm that?

thx

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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@Altostrata, @Shep some opinion please?

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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  • Moderator
On 11/13/2023 at 5:06 AM, Panther said:

When i take NAC it seems that it helps with the wds. But i cannot understand why does NAC help with that.

 

Do you take NAC every day? It's possible it helps by reducing neuro-inflammation, while helping production of new neurons. What symptoms do you feel it's helping you with?

 

What do you mean by "light high" feeling? Is this a good feeling?

 

Windows usually refer to a time when there are few symptoms, less intense symptoms, or no symptoms. It's usually a time when we feel good. 

2003-2009 on and off various SSRI's for short periods, Ativan prn

2010-2011 Ativan, up to 1.5mg/day - tapered off without issue

2013-2021 ativan 1-1.5mg 10-12x/month, daily starting Oct 21 to help with buspar WD

2016 - Effexor 75mg, short-term

2021 Mar -Jun Buspar ADR at high dose, tapered 3 months

2021 Aug Wellbutrin 150mg for 5 days (ADR), then MIrtazapine 7.5mg for 7 days (ADR)

Oct 22/21 - Direct switch ativan to clonazepam (don't do this)

Tapered clonaz Oct/21 - Apr/23 0.25mg - 0mg!

 

Supplements: omega-3, mag-glycinate, vitamin D

 

"Believe that your tragedies, your losses, your sorrows, your hurt, happened for you, not to you. And I bless the thing that broke you down and cracked you open, because the world needs you open" - Rebecca Campbell

 

*** Disclaimer: Please note, my suggestions/comments are based on my own personal experiences. Please consult a knowledgeable practitioner to discuss decisions regarding your medical care *** 

 

                                                             *** Please do not send me PM's ***

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Panther, I believe your symptoms are from tapering too fast.  You are going faster than the harm reduction approach we suggest, which is only 10% reduction every 4-6 weeks.  Tapering too fast can throw your nervous system into chaos, and it can take a very long time (even years) for this to settle down.  I don't say this to scare you, but I want you to make informed choices. 

 

If it were me, I would updose back to, say, 3.25 mg escitalopram, and stay there for a while.  I would hold on this dose for at least several (3-5) months. When you make your next reduction, do only 10%.  The formula is current dose X 0.9 = new dose.  So, 3.25 x 0.9 = 2.925, round this up to 3.0 mg.  I know it takes a very long time, but this is the safest way to do it.  Rushing a taper can actually slow you down in the long run.  Please read: 

 

Fast Tapers and Cold Turkey

Edited by getofflex

Please do not private message me.  Only tag me for urgent questions about tapering and reinstating - thank you.  

 

***Please note this is not medical advice.  Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a doctor who understands psych meds and how to withdraw from them, if you can find one.

 

Lexapro   Started Apr 15 2010 - 10 mg;  started taper August 2017, recent taper info: Apr 2 '20  0.18 mg; Jul 16  0.17 mg, Aug 23  0.16 mg, Oct 7  0.15 mg, Nov 8 - 0.14, Jan 16 '21 - 0.13, Feb 7 - 0.12, Feb 22 - 0.11, Mar 26 - 0.10, May 21 - 0.09, June 15 - 0.08 Aug 16 - 0.07, Oct 6 - 0.06, Nov 21 0.05, Dec. 17 0.04, Jan 14 '22 0.03, Feb 19 0.02, Apr 18 0.01, May 15 0.005,  Jul 8, 0.00.  Psych Drug Free as of July 8, 2022!!  Woohoo!!!

other meds: Levothyroxine 75 mg

magnesium in small amounts at 4 AM, before bed

suppl AM: fish oil, flax oil, vit C, vit E, multivitamin, zinc

suppl 8 PM: magnesium 350 mg, extended release vitamin C, melatonin 2 mg

 

Paxil 2002 - 2010, switched to Lexapro 2010 

Trazodone 50 mg. 2002 - 2019, fast tapered in 2019 

Xanax 0.5 mg as needed 2002 - 2019, up to 3x weekly 

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20 minutes ago, LotusRising said:

 

Do you take NAC every day? It's possible it helps by reducing neuro-inflammation, while helping production of new neurons. What symptoms do you feel it's helping you with?

 

What do you mean by "light high" feeling? Is this a good feeling?

 

Windows usually refer to a time when there are few symptoms, less intense symptoms, or no symptoms. It's usually a time when we feel good. 

No i dont take it everyday; just occassionally. I feel like it relieves anxiety, and "but i just assume" speeds up healing a little bit (judging from previous experiences).

These "light highs" are better than my baseline stabilized mood.(basically at these times i feel like if i would take a real antidepressants) It lasts a half day. I would say its a really minor hypomanic state (i hate to say that word).

2018-2018 3-4months venlafaxin 150mg, then fast tapered and quit 0 withdrawal.

2019-2019 2-3months long mirtazapin 30mg fast tapered and quit 0 wd.

September,2020-November,2021 erraticall benzodiazepin and Z-drug use use 0.75-1.5mg alprazolam 10-20mg zolpidem did not realize that it was WD and CT-d--> severe WD

January,28,2022 started taking 10mg escitalopram (Scippa in Hungary the same as Lexapro in the USA).

Juny,2022 -July,2022 300mg tramadol almost daily, CT and heavy WD for a week at least

December,2022 occasional Phenibut use at high dosage(3000-4000mg)

May,15,2023 5mg escitalopram

Oct,16,2023 ~3.75mg escitalopram

Nov,10,2023 2.5mg escitalopram

Febr,01,2024 ~1.25mg escitalopram

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