Panther: Escitalopram (Lexapro) withdrawal or relapse?

[LotusRising]

This definitely sounds like a window, which is really good!

[Panther]

23 hours ago, getofflex said:

Panther, I believe your symptoms are from tapering too fast.  You are going faster than the harm reduction approach we suggest, which is only 10% reduction every 4-6 weeks.  Tapering too fast can throw your nervous system into chaos, and it can take a very long time (even years) for this to settle down.  I don't say this to scare you, but I want you to make informed choices. 

 

If it were me, I would updose back to, say, 3.25 mg escitalopram, and stay there for a while.  I would hold on this dose for at least several (3-5) months. When you make your next reduction, do only 10%.  The formula is current dose X 0.9 = new dose.  So, 3.25 x 0.9 = 2.925, round this up to 3.0 mg.  I know it takes a very long time, but this is the safest way to do it.  Rushing a taper can actually slow you down in the long run.  Please read: 

 

Fast Tapers and Cold Turkey

I can repeat the same thing as before. I live in Hungary(Country in Europe) NOT in the USA.

Here; we dont have liquid form of the drug and the generic version of escitalopram is called scippa. The lowest pill contain 5mg escitalopram, the pills are also extremely small and firm. Even cutting them in half (and half again) is a hard thing. I am phisically impossible to drop by 0.5mg or so... I asked a question before this that what if i dissolve my pills in water but there were not any confident answer about it. And like i can see now its a dangerous solution because scippa can not dissolve equally in water(but please say if i am wrong). So i dont have option to taper by much slower amounts. I would do that because i am not a masochist but i CANT. I think this forum dont realise that there are other countries than the USA, but anyway thx for the helping intention.

[Jakeblack14]

Hey @Panther, 

Sorry about not having a liquid form. 
Here in the US, we have a liquid form of lexapro, but it is quite expensive. I have also found in my journey that I metabolize the liquid version differently and it did not help me one bit. 
 

What I did, not a great suggestion, but it may be beneficial for you as it was all I had, was to sandpaper bits off. 
I created a small picture and used geometry to determine how much to shave off of the circle to get to the desired dosage.

Once I got to the low dosages it became fairly difficult, however, atleast until you get to that point it was a way forward for me. 

Good luck. 

[getofflex]

Hello Panther.  I can understand that you are justifiably frustrated, but please don't take this out on us.  We are a small group of unpaid volunteers, helping you for free.  It's not fair for you to assume and accuse us of acting like we think the USA is the only country.  We are not assuming that you have access to a commercial liquid, as is available in the USA. Please be respectful.  

 

You can make a liquid from your tablets.  You may even be able to mail order commercial liquid from another country. I don't know, you would need to research that.  This link will explain in detail how to make your own liquid.  

 

Tips for Tapering Escitalopram

 

Your other option is to stay on your current dose of escitalopram, and wait until you achieve stability, using non drug coping techniques to deal with your symptoms.  

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by getofflex

[Altostrata]

37 minutes ago, Panther said:

I asked a question before this that what if i dissolve my pills in water but there were not any confident answer about it.

 

We have hundreds of people here successfully making their own liquids with escitalopram tablets and water, as described in Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

[Panther]

56 minutes ago, Jakeblack14 said:

What I did, not a great suggestion, but it may be beneficial for you as it was all I had, was to sandpaper bits off. 
I created a small picture and used geometry to determine how much to shave off of the circle to get to the desired dosage.
 

Hmm, that could be a really helpful thing my man. Thank you! The only thing is do we know that the pill itself contains the active ingredient homogeneously?

 

[Panther]

57 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

We have hundreds of people here successfully making their own liquids with escitalopram tablets and water, as described in Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

I checked the difference between scippa and lexapro and there are many of them. Scippa also has a coating on it, and many other ingredients. If i try dissolving it i am absolutely not sure that it will dissolve equally in water. I also asked the girl in the pharmacy and she told me i cannot do that.

[Altostrata]

Scippa has a film coating and fillers, like many other tablets, including generic escitalopram. It is not an exception to the do-it-yourself instructions.

 

Pharmacists routinely tell people they cannot split or dissolve their tablets when they can.

 

However, up to you how you want to taper it.

[Panther]

On 10/20/2023 at 6:59 PM, Panther said:

Hi guys again! Checking in. On monday i bit the bullet and said to myself lets finish this. I waited so long because i hoped i will get some free time out from my really stressfull work but no chance for it. I have to do it besides my job. Like i said before in Hungary there is no chance for liquid form and dissolving the tablet is not worth the risk so i took a scalpel and cut the tablet in 4 little pieces approximately 1.25mg each of them. So i started to take 3.75 mg. Until this day withdrawals are not so heavy like when i cut from 10 to 5mg but its been only 5 days. I will try to reach 2.5 mg in a month. Staying at 3.75mg would be worse because of the dose dumping(inaccurate pill cutting). I have a question though. I found these graphs for escitalopram and tried to fit a line on it to measure the slope of it to guess """ how heavy the withdrawals could be""" compared to the slope from 10 to 5mg what do u think is this graph accurate enough to make assumption ?

Bests

Panther

Hello guys!

i think i will start my final push towards 0mg from 2.5mg in a month. The picture i attached before shows the SERT occupacy of escit. Do you know which graph is the most important if we want to predict the withdrawal? Does the thalamus part of the brain matter the most or other?. I would like to guess the seriousness of the w.d if i will jump to 1.25 from 2.5mg (then 0).

Best of all

Panther

[Panther]

@Jakeblack14@getofflex@Altostrata I just dropped to 1.25mg today. I want to know which type of diagram is the most accurate to guess the effect of this drop. If you have some guess please let me know. I will have a final exam in 16 days, and want to make a guess. Thanx and sorry for the disturb

[getofflex]

You should not drop from 2.5 mg to 1.25 mg.  This is too big of a drop - 50%.  These drugs are very powerful, even, and especially, at the lower dosages.  Our harm reduction approach is to drop by no more than 10% of the current dose.  That would be 2.5 x 0.9 = 2.25 mg. I strongly suggest that you go to that dose right away.  This link will explain how to measure the nonstandard doses.  

 

Tips for Tapering Escitalopram

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1 by getofflex

[Jakeblack14]

Agreed. That drop is dangerous especially at lower doses. At most would be 2.25mg as geoflex suggested. I get the desire to push through, but it's like ripping a trellis from a tree, it hurts the tree more in the long run. I dropped from .83 to Zero in August and it was a huge mistake. 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17671-the-brassmonkey-slide-method-of-micro-tapering/#comments

[Panther]

I just am so amased how my feelings came back in a good way. I just have been understood how this crap erased my feelings. I am happy but at the same time angry at myself how could i let these drugs ruined years of my life. I think btw i have been stabilised on 1.25mg more than 95% so  i am ready for the FINAL BLOW. Approximately in a month i will start the execution of this drug. I will try to cut this micro pill-debris into half (~~~ .675mg) and then jump off and finish it forever. Godspeed for all of you!

[OffPills]

4 minutes ago, Panther said:

I just am so amased how my feelings came back in a good way. I just have been understood how this crap erased my feelings. I am happy but at the same time angry at myself how could i let these drugs ruined years of my life. 

My exact same thoughts after stabilizing a bit the last week. Godspeed to you too!💪🏻

[Panther]

Tomorrow i will make a little crumb from my 1/8th of the tablet and take it for 3 days. Than i will make the JUMP. It is the moment to put an end to this forever. Trust me victory will be ours!

[mdwstrx]

27 minutes ago, Panther said:

Tomorrow I will make a little crumb from my 1/8th of the tablet and take it for 3 days. Than i will make the JUMP. It is the moment to put an end to this forever. Trust me victory will be ours!

 

Hi @Panther, 

I've been to your beautiful city of Budapest. Stayed a time in Pecs. It is a lovely area. I'm also tapering Escitalopram. I'm sorry to sound sober about your exciting planned jump from 0.625 mg. I suggest you consider asking Brassmonkey or another moderator their opinion of your plan. I've read of another member who jumped off Escitalopram from  0.02 mg. after a long careful taper.  A few months later, she is in acute withdrawal again and has been for months. When I asked, Brassmonkey clarified this for me, "I agree, 0.02 mg is still too high to make the jump. My calculations show 0.006mg would be a better point." 

 

Praying things go smoothly for you.

mdwstrx

[Panther]

25 minutes ago, mdwstrx said:

 

Hi @Panther, 

I've been to your beautiful city of Budapest. Stayed a time in Pecs. It is a lovely area. I'm also tapering Escitalopram. I'm sorry to sound sober about your exciting planned jump from 0.625 mg. I suggest you consider asking Brassmonkey or another moderator their opinion of your plan. I've read of another member who jumped off Escitalopram from  0.02 mg. after a long careful taper.  A few months later, she is in acute withdrawal again and has been for months. When I asked, Brassmonkey clarified this for me, "I agree, 0.02 mg is still too high to make the jump. My calculations show 0.006mg would be a better point." 

 

Praying things go smoothly for you.

mdwstrx

U r very kind thank you very much!

I am also a member on BenzoBudddies and advise people when talking things like AD withdrawal is nothing compared to Benzos that this is b()llshit. On this forum i can see that ssris and the others can cause almost as severe wd-s as benzos, which is terryfiing...But on the other hand from my view i have to admit that i went thorugh benzo, phenibut, taramadol(for a short time) wd besides the escitalopram and escitalopram wd lasted much shorter for me, alhough i didnttaper with the other drugs just quit CT. I dont have the opportunity to take liquid form, so sh!tting around with the tiny tiny tiny tiny unmeasurable tablet with my knife would cause  heavy dose dumping which is not worth it.

btw: from where is this 0.006mg calculation come from?

[mdwstrx]

On 4/13/2024 at 4:50 PM, Panther said:

 

btw: from where is this 0.006mg calculation come from?

@Panther

The numbers were suggested to me by the moderator @brassmonkey who I believe wrote the detailed instructions presented on this site in the "Managing the Endgame Taper" section. I strongly suggest you reach out to Brassmonkey or another site moderator here for confirmation that your targeted stopping dose is safe.

[Panther]

22 hours ago, mdwstrx said:

@Panther

The numbers were suggested to me by the moderator @brassmonkey who I believe wrote the detailed instructions presented on this site in the "Managing the Endgame Taper" section. I strongly suggest you reach out to Brassmonkey or another site moderator here for confirmation that your targeted stopping dose is safe.

First day of not taking anything except KANNA... hell started, anxiety, palpitation heavy, but i will do it! Keep the pressure on victory is close.