Boges11: Please need help /thougts

[LotusRising]

@Boges11

 

I know, I understand, and I remember all too well what it was like for me when I came to SA.

 

It's really a lot of information to understand and sift through, but I do suggest making a decision. Remaining in flux sometimes doesn't help matters and the longer you're on the mirtazapine, the harder it may become to come off it. 

 

We're here to support you 💖

 

 

[Boges11]

Thank you @LotusRising

Some have mentioned that if I am experiencing TD type symptoms that getting off of this more quickly is maybe the route to go. I’d like to do that, but I am so nervous and terrified.

given, I’m so compromised and kinda Rockbottom and physically and mentally this just is terrifying to try to start quicker and then just completely spiral given I have such severe akathidia are already and physically so sick at times. So many changes in the last couple months I’ve just put my body through so much hell not that I ever wanted to do that. 
talked to Mark Horowitz on Tuesday and I guess got to try to maybe switch to liquid compound so that I can be more precise. Which switching to that might take some time to stabilize it not that I’m even able to be stable, but trying to cut right away I know it’s not the smart thing to do. However, again, this whole worrying about TD and horses has me terrified to stay on it even longer. 

 

cannot believe that I just didn’t stop it right away at the beginning, but being trapped in the psych hospital, you don’t really get a choice, so no computer even look anything up on these forums to have gathered any kind of thoughts on it… So upsetting because I told the doctor was in my red category I don’t feel comfortable taking it and she said I don’t care. Just unbelievable.

[Boges11]

@LotusRising

Compound liquid-

my compounder pharmacist who I use during my Klonopin taper, so I trust, he’s going to make up a compound mirtazapine liquid for my taper.

 

One formulation I’ve seen at the beginning of this was 1 mL equals 15 mg of mirtazapine per the UK instructions for their liquid.

 

I believe this is OK but can he make up a more diluted batch or say one milliliter equals 2mg?

have people asked for this and how has this turned out? 

I did an.25mg = 10mL for Klonopin compound and it worked out fine but just curious how it’s worked out for others for Mirtazapine.

 

also, I’ll abide by a two week change over kf bottles bc people mentioned degradation when waiting a whole month. Is this still the preference is 2 week new bottle?

 

Thank you.

[LotusRising]

@Boges11

 

You may need to reach out to other members tapering mirtazapine to see how this worked for them. I do not have any personal experience with mirtazapine.

 

You could try here Tips for Tapering Mirtazapine or How to do a site search

 

Have you asked your pharmacist?

[Boges11]

Doing horrible….. split to liquid comp 59

50/50 with tablet Thurs night. Have been having adverse and severe problems since first couple weeks on Mirtazapine….. please help with any asvics if anyone has had same bring. I. Touch with Mark Horowitz and benzo coaches. I’m not sure how ro survive this as Mirt is neurotoxic and cause worse aka, started rage and chemicals all day doom and dread, yet I can’t even make a move with it. Please any thoughts anyone has to make it.

 

log  

18/24- Thursday 

7am- awake, and trying to fall back asleep… In and out of sleep with dread, feeling 

10am-eat breakfast, hungry and irritable going to back feeling

12:30pm- rage feeling just want to throw everything and rip my eyeballs out joints hurt, overwhelmed with wanting to just scream and rip my skin and scream nonstop urge

1pm- talk to Nicole with mom 

2:30--eat lunch and just aka overwhelmed 

3pm- want to rip teeth out toes off, throw things across the room, rip eyes out feeling, grind teeth into mouth guard 

4pm- rage continues, laying on couch want to rip body apart, grind teeth, scream at everyone back arching up and down, scream out loud by akathisia tics, urges to do awful things ,  blinking  eyes hard,

7pm- eating dinner awful crying and wanting to rage feeling and self harm

8pm- continues above call parents cry more so overwhelmed with symptoms beyond my ability to cope and so scared

9pm- akathisia calmed down

9:55pm- took 7.3mg split liquid

11pm-

Brain racing, scary thoughts , 

Stomach sour and nausea coming on

2am- awake, eyes glued shut, hypnic jolts, rls and keg pain severe , internal akathisia and back arching, clenched teeth 

4am- still awake, can’t fall asleep but so tired eyes burning , jolting 

6am- still awake switch rooms, 

 

1/19/24- Friday 

7am- fell asleep at some point

9:30am- woke up to fear and doom; akathisia feel, crushing upset and want to throw things feel

10:15am- eat breakfast, rocking in bed

11am- complete vocal tics akathisia walking around and rocking and saying same thing panicked voiceover  over

12pm- walk to field and sit with blitz in sun

1pm- eating lunch , argue with Brandon about food

2pm- wanting to rip skin off, 

2:30- rocking on bed biting mouythfguard, wanting to claw eyes out 

3:30pm- severe legs moving back and forth want to jump up and down and scream, ate a snack and wondering if that amped things up - natural baby food cracker 

4pm-  bloodwork and vocal tics,rocking non stop 

10pm- 1/2 liquid 1/2 pill for 7.3mg Mirtazapine 

11pm- intense internal akathisia, intense panic feel , body pain jolts all over, face twitching, trouble swallowing 

12am-1am- intense panic continues, still awake , stomach rolling; brain shaking, 

7am- awake maybe, so confused.

9am- awake, dread, stomach popping noises, fingers can’t bend they hurt so badly like this every morning few weeks. 

Terrified. Nose stopped up and green like this for weeks

 

1/20- Saturday 

10:15am- eat breakfast, rocking in bed

11am- complete vocal tics akathisia walking around and rocking and saying same thing panicked voiceover  over

2pm- order food on heb, 

6pm- talk to Danielle, drained by end miss my friends 

8:30pm- eat dinner

9pm- sore throat, stuffy nose ears hurt

10pm - take med half and half, thrust hurts migraine etc

11pm- migraine continues ear ringing horrible 

1145pm- RLS severe, joint pain toss and turn non stop , ears ringing, head internal aka , jolts, 

1am- rls still bad, jolting 

 

1/21- Sunday 

7am- awake not sure when, fingers stiff  and bad joint pain, eyes hurt opening, 

Stomach gurgling, headache internal aka starting , sore throat in and off 

8am-10am- joints hurt, stomach gnawing, eyes hurt and skin burning around them, buzzing legs, try to sleep but intense chemical anxiety and awake but dreaming, hate it,  vocal tics galore , urge to want to throw things and scream, muscle weakness  dry skin always 

10:30am- eat breakfast, tinnitus screaming so much more than K taper 

12-1pm- work on computer 

2pm- aka bad, neck pain into head and headache.  Eyes hurt, anxiety building, chest heavy and trouble breathing , throat spasms and nose spasms, trouble swallowing stomach bulges moving around and tight tight stomach, air pushing up into chest, bad body odor like all of K acute

3pm- talk to mom not doing food; covid test faint line; migraine so bad, stomach such tight muscles always 

6pm/m- eat food; doom feeling non stop and chem anxiety intense vibrating and twitches,  burning all over

7:00pm- eat food, walk downstairs hard to walk, weak and legs stiff and hurt; always feel doom, tight chest non stop, trouble swallowing,  burning body mouth gums,

8:44pm- back arching up and down vocal tics coming on ‘having a hard time right now’, body agitated rocking legs , bad chemical anxiety feeling chest tight stomach pressure so tight , rocking feet  clenched body 

10:15pm- take meds 50/50 pills and liquid 

1115- tummy hurts, achy joints, 

12:45am- ??

severe brain electricity and feel like going to have seizures every second. Worst I’ve had , RLS very bad, brain stalling, panic attack feel but not, lights flashing behind eyes

5:30am- up bathroom, very sick to stomach, indigestion feel, heart pain, congested, intense RLS, achy joints , can’t swallow well, aka building took ginger piece , pain in tummy got worse things moving

 

1/22/24- Monday 

730am- bad heart pain- shooting pains on left side, , head feels off, burning all over, pressure like crazy everywhere, buzzing and k  a young in bed can’t sleep due to severity of all, tight chest hard to swallow 

9am- toxic 5min sleep whole body internal tremor horrific, bug crawling feel but painful nightmare of bugs woke awake to , horrific buzzing burning tons of body pressure like going to explode everywhere, nerve endings are nuts, terrified by how bad this is and I’ve barely survived K acute breathing on floor gasping for air barely eyes open  

10:30am- eat breakfast

1130am- crying bc so bad, have no idea what is normal in this bc stuff is severe 

Exhausted, congested, stomach rolling and nauseated, muscle pain, joints hurt, feel so sick, aka snd overwhelmed by fear, 

1145- in pain nauseated so so sick , whole body feels like death, crying 

1pm- can’t speak or move- in coma like state, scary this was like this in acute first few weeks off K, can’t move anything and vody feels paralyzed and in sleep but can hear around me 

3pm- talk to Brandon and parents- so severe and need everyone’s help trying to survive

5:30pm- hobble downstairs

545pm- eat more, feed dogs, very sick barely can help out; back upstairs

6pm- laying down, crashing feel just awful 

8pm- stressed bc so sick and scared, akathisia coming on, stomach pressure so constant all day every day tight and burps painful, pain all over, vibrating all

Over, irritated , exhausted, 

9pm- crying to dad, heart skipping most days now and adrenaline surge every time heart skips, overwhelmed by symptom severity, stomach yuck, chemical panic feel and throat pressure, exhausted and want to cry and cry this is so bad

9:30pm- take med 50/50 

10:30- exhausted, body buzzing 

1115pm- stomach muscles not as tight 

1215-all night Exploding RLS, violent GI issues, lower cramping , stomach noises are so loud never before been like this, nausea extreme 

Bad intrusive thoughts severe internal aka, nerve pain, can’t sleep but tiny bit asnd jolted awake by GI problems and extreme need to throw up and stomach cramps 

Head hell pressure, weird sensations all over ear pain. 

Chest pain and heart skipping beats, stabbing heart pain

Akathisia rolling and RLS horrible can’t sleep.

[Hibari]

I'm sorry you are having a rough time. 

 

I found that when I did liquid of any medication, it hit my system faster than the pills. You may be experiencing that now. 

 

If it continues, you can always go back to the pills and continue your taper from there. 

 

From reading your signature, it sounds like your nervous system is very sensitive now because of the meds that were forced on you. 

 

I too had a sensitized system and could not handle 7.5mgs of Mirt. So started tapering while I was very ill from a setback. 

 

Our nervous systems do heal again with time. 

 

Hibari. 

[Bailey]

@Boges11 I read through your log of the past few days and can really relate to the gruesomeness of it all. I wish I had answers but am too new to this process. I'm in an acute stage as well.  I'm praying for you. Big hug from Virginia. 

[Boges11]

@DataGuy hi there…. Do you still assess people’s situations for genesite results ? 
Following 3 1/2yr slow taper of Klonopin I got sever akathisia after stepping off at .005mg for 9 wks (orig .75mg dose on for 7wks before tapering)
Now stuck almost 8wks on 7.5mg Mirtazapine just making switch over to full compound liquid and dose one time 9:30-10pm.

 

ultra rapid metabolizer of mirt ughhh so wondering if interdose withdrawal could be an issue and lead to kindling for me and if will need to definitely be dosing more than once a day.Tried spilt dose 9:30pm and 3am three weeks or so ago and had aka continue all thru night and day, so went back to one dose.

 

I have had adverse reactions to mirt since taking it that have gotten worse over time (see thread)… likely stuff that’s happened last few months factor in also but had issues severe RLS, internal aka increased, jolts, after taking from beginning.then 3wks in came rage wanting to scream non stop and increases aka ext and internal.

severe GI issues and weakness, jay very disabled and likely BIND acting in as I’m 5 months off the K.

a mess but wanting to understand how not to kindle myself with the mirt from interdose. I saw Shep had written somewhere that interdose from ultra rapid metabolizing can cause kindling. 
thank you for your time!

 

[Boges11]

[DataGuy]

Hi @Boges11, Sorry you are having so much trouble. I will try to get you an answer in a few days. I just need to take care of a few things at work over the weekend and then I will take a look at things. Just need to do a bit more reading and ask a few questions to clarify things. Please hang in there. 

[DataGuy]

Hi @Boges11,

 

Sorry for what you have been through. Sounds awful. The gene tests are of pretty limited use. I think you have answered your question better than the test ever could. You haven't reacted well to it and splitting the dose actually made things worse, so the problem is not likely to be interdose withdrawal. 

 

You have been on the drug for 8 weeks now? Did the drug help when you were first given it? Have you tried reducing the dose?

 

It seems most of these drugs have just made things worse for you. Most of them have very limited efficacy for the conditions they are approved to treat, and using them to treat adverse effects of other drugs (they have never been approved or demonstrated safety and efficacy in this regard) is a recipe for disaster.

 

I think the best course of action is to taper off mirtazapine at a pace that you can tolerate and then avoid starting any new drugs or supplements. Psychotropics can cause akathisia in many different ways. It can develop after starting a new drug, it can develop as a result of withdrawal, it can develop from increasing the dose, and sometimes it can develop just from taking a steady dose for a long period. No one actually knows the biological mechanism that underpins akathisia, but given the diversity of drugs and scenarios in which it can develop, you have to suspect the common theme is neurotoxicity or some harm happening to the nervous system. 

 

I think the best thing you can do is try a small reduction of Mirtazapine and then hold and see what happens. Is there anything you have tried that has helped your symptoms? Have you looked at the non-drug coping mechanisms and tried any? Have you tried any changes in diet? Sometimes people can develop issues with certain foods during severe withdrawal. 

 

Hang tight. If you avoid doing anything drastic and slowly reduce the Mirt to zero, things will eventually get better. Unfortunately, there really aren't many good treatments for akathisia, but it will get better over time. 

[Boges11]

Thanks @DataGuy

Cgamged to liquid compound two weeks ago 50/50 for a week with pill and immediately night one severe GI symptoms. Literally explosion in stomach that night with so many gut issues and added to hell.

a week on full liquid now and Gi is tiny better but still not how I was before taking this. Hunger pains have been since day 1 of taking yet can’t gain any weight but eat a lot. I’m still under 100lbs which I hate.

 

Akathisia is almost 24/7…. Exoodikg agiattion almost jumping up and down and wanting to break things and scream non stop has increased the longer I’ve been on mirt. Barely getting an hour of sleep or so and body is amped up with gun to back fear, impending doom all day since 3rd week. Cry and can’t just be still which I was fine sitting still before med. any stress kicks it all up to horrific. 

i didn’t get any benefit from this, no sleep improvement except for a couple nights within two weeks on and that was 2-3hrs sleep, so not a huge benefit. Made aka worse and extreme crying started week 3 and rage issues. Want to break everything and that is opposite of who I am. Had covid week 3-4 so didn’t make a move and didn’t even know wheee to start at that point was so overwhelmed bc I wanted off so badly.
 

Was only given bc psych ward trying to throw something at me…they wanted lithium bc ‘maybe your bipolar’ statement they throw at everyone… I should have thrown mirt in toilet but was too scared.

Now im livings nightmare where maybe would have been manageable at this point given I’m 5mo off Klonopin now….. brain symptoms are hell after taking mirt and all day long. Barely an hour sleep if that.

this med has made the doom overwhelming fear that hits like gun to back feel which I never had before, anxiety in stomach surges heart pain and chest pain didn’t really have much of with K. 

I wasn’t like this before starting mirt, aka hell from after Klonopin jump had calmed where I wasn’t having to move and scream pull hair out 24/7 etc prior to going to psych hispital( had SI and why parents took me). We knew meds were no good, just after long few months they didn’t know how else to help and I didn’t know that’s where I was headed again.

mark H said to try to solit doses again to see if helps in any way. I’ll try this tomorrow maybe .5mg in morning and 6.75mg at night.

my body hates this med, I should have never been on it, I don’t know how I’m going to make it off bc any change rocks me so badly and it’s symptoms I haven’t had previously yet I had about 120+ during K taper…. I coped for 4 yrs thru getting off K hell.
This is all very different bc constant anna is involved and so hard to accept given I was med free and now rock bottom starting a taper. Just worst spot starting. Not sure how to survive. I had a pretty hard K taper- was more physically symptoms I battled so lots of laying, podcasts, short walks, painting etc.

now agitation is 900mph and exhausted, extreme chemical fear and anxiety, urges to break bones are just awful stuff and can’t relax at all even though I do calming meditations etc. Body and cns are fried yet being amped by this med so can’t just stay on and say ok it’s helping with sleep and I’ll worry with taper down the road with it. 
it is not adding any benefit and made me so much worse yet can’t stabilize at all to get a foothold of confidence. Everyone seems to find their way and very few have constant aka who tapered…. Haven’t connected with anyone that has so it’s upsetting bc this is more stuff dealt with after a cold turkey or rapid taper. I always said that with my K taper but didn’t expect to be slammed with aka so extreme going slow and jump at .005mg. 

 

Because I feel so awful all the time, and I don’t have a consistent this happens every single day trend… Some nights I have severe symptoms and aka raging before I take my dose and then it gets a little better, like tiny percent better. Then there have been days that my evenings  Are a little better before my dose.
always an hour after dose around 11pm, internal aka builds up head spinning brain shaking light flashes and RLS hits hard and that stuff sticks for a couple hours as I toss and turn. On and off then til morning where I might sleep 6/7am for an hour.

it’s usually just been hell 24 seven so difficult to gauge if anything is interdose withdrawal… .  But with the ultra rapid metabolizer status I think still trying to get a second dose will hopefully be beneficial from a withdrawal perspective coming down on the medication???
I don’t want to be kindling myself further by having mirt leave my system with one dose. 

 I feel so stuck on it and absolutely hopeless. I didn’t need anything else compromising my healing from Klonopin.

Thanks for yalls time. I’m talking to all the coaches sbd Mark trying to just survive each day.
I need a miracle trying to come off this. 

[DataGuy]

I'm sorry @Boges11, that sounds horrible. I would listen to what Mark says. He is kind of the world expert.

 

The way you describe things, it sounds like the adverse reaction to mirtazapine is far worse than any withdrawal you might experience, and you have only been on the med for 8 weeks. Have you tried to take less mirtazapine at the regular time? If so, what happened? We normally never recommend rapid discontinuation, but in the case of a severe adverse reaction, sometimes it is advised. 

 

Did you have a full appointment with Mark H? I am a bit surprised he didn't broach this.

[Boges11]

Thanks @DataGuy

 

yes ive talked to him a few times. I’m not sure how to get down quick without my body completely losing it bc just changing to liquid was awful and I’m 5mo off K so that’s itvbackground of this all.

iys a nightmare that I can’t believe happened after a slow taper off K, no other meds since 2020, and then beyond spiraled with the severe aka that resulted in so much last few months that my body is I’m not sure. I’m scared I got really injured but yet I want off this bc it’s not doing me any good/just harmful. 
 

not sure how else to go but try to get down as best as I can, working with Nicole from Dr Josef and talk to everyone for support. 
 

i was so hopeful bc last spring I was getting myself back and doing so well the lower I went on the K. I crashed right at the end before I stepped off…. I had been going .01mg a month since may ‘2022 from .16mg and maybe things caught up but assumed it was acute and kept on pushing. I’ll never know but it really has done me in bc I needed K to be my last med to taper…. worn out.

 

not sure how to find the confidence for this- so so so  very scared and not helping the med is causing chemical fear and anxiety I didn’t have. Just not needed on top of the aka.

 

i don’t want to spiral completely and yet I need to get off this.

[DataGuy]

@Boges11, to be clear, the Mirtazapine isn't helping you sleep? Have you ever tried taking half a dose before bed instead of the full dose? Then you can take the other half later if things go badly. It may give you an idea as to whether reducing quickly might improve things for you. 

[Boges11]

@DataGuyit so not…. It’s given a 2-3 hour night maybe 7-8 times in the last 8 weeks and other wise 45min-1hr or so and 2 times I got maybe 5-6hrs.

 

i trialed 1.875mg and whatever remainder is 5.5mg in tablets at 9:30msmd aka all night and then reminder and 3/4am and aka continued and was bad all that day. Might have just been that night and no factor of the split but I went back to once dose. It was prob 4 wks ago that I tried this and before I switched to liquid. 
 

this being said….. who could give a pharmacology thought on what the range of half life could reduce to for people that are ultra rapid metabolizers? If it’s 20-40hrs, what could be the reduction for ultra rapid people? Is 20 for that reason shown? Is that what ultra rapid people and normal is maybe 30 while slow is the 40ish hrs?

 

I know many factors go into this… So not looking for an exact, but just trying to understand what it could mean for an ultra rapid metabolizer and if a second dose is going to be necessary, no matter what to try to come down on this.

 

I’m in Houston and can’t find anybody to get a pharmacological opinion on this. Know of anyone? Or have any information?

thank you. 

[Hibari]

Hi @Boges11

 

I'm sorry you are struggling on Mirt.

 

I don't know about fast metabolizing but I do know about very sensitized nervous systems that react strongly to medication. 
 

I, too, could not handle it after I ended up going on it to try and sleep after a bad setback. I tried several different low and high doses. I then tried to stabilize on 7.5mgs and it did not help. 

 

I would take it at night and then be wide awake with adrenaline surges. I moved the dose to the morning because it kept me awake.  I was frantic with fear. 

 

I now realize that because my system was sensitized from the setback, my body could not handle any medication. It sounds like yours is in the same state 

 

After 6 weeks on Mirt, (2 of which were ar 7.5mg) I started tapering. I was already so sick and not stabilized from my setback but I knew the Mirt was making things worse. When I got to about 5mg by inching my way down, the medication started to make me drowsy.  I moved it back to the evening and then continued tapering. 

 

I share this with you because I know how bad Mirt is making you feel. I also know the fear of tapering and making things worse. I had to go with my gut that getting it out of my system, through a mindful taper, was the only way I was going to help my body heal. 

 

Hibari 

[Boges11]

@Hibari

thanks so much for feedback. Appreciate you.

did you struggle with akathisia at all?

im making my way fine with brother handling my doses with Nicole from Dr Josef’s group, so I don’t really know what dose I’m getting. 
my body is super sensitized and I’m 5 1/2mo off K and just pray I can make my way down slowly but steadily bc this drug is def poison for me. I don’t have as severe reactions to taking it as I was but the severity of the akathisia I’ve dealt with since off k and trying to make sure I don’t get that bad again is a nightmare.

i pray God will get me off this safely and successfully. It’s served zero purpose other than harming me further and I knew better and that’s what’s so difficult to accept. I didn’t want to take it but was forced it in the psych ward and by time I figured out what to do a fast drop and off wasn’t able to. 
 

I’ve had severe finger joint pain where they are so so stiff with pain in mornings every day, ultrasound shows synovitis which scares me bc that usually happens with inflammatory arthritis. I wouldn’t be so worried and chalk it up to this dang med and BIND bit has Covid at Christmas time right after starting this med and can’t tell if it’s from Covid or what. COVID can cause all this crap and turn into autoimmune stuff which I skready have hashimotos. So just frustrated. I might be doing decent had I not been on this dang mirt at this point post K taper.

 

i really hope things she’s been ok for you…. How have you been since being off? How did you know where you were healed from benzo stuff/how

could you tell what was coming from where? 
hugs and prayers for you. Thanks for your reaching out

[Hibari]

@Boges11

 

No, I did not have akathisia. I understand from others who have had it how painful and exhausting it is. 

 

I was just adrenalized at first and then physically flat for the rest of the time. That was in addition to the other horror symptoms from my setback. 

 

I know you didn't want to take the med. Most of us are so vulnerable when we end up on meds because we are scared and not thinking straight. 

 

I have had muscle pain from coming off of Mirt and developed a frozen shoulder because my muscles were weak and I strained my shoulder. Stiff muscles and joints are common for benzo and Mirt withdrawal. Most doctors don't know that and come up with diagnosis based on symptoms rather than understanding the effects of withdrawal.

 

Try not to let anyone make conclusions about your health while in the middle of withdrawal because so many systems within our bodies are effected by these meds. I plan to do an overall assessment of my health when I have been off at least 6 months. 

 

I knew I had healed from benzo withdrawal when my physical strength came back and my mind felt clear. 

 

You can get off this medication. I was bedridden and incapacitated in the fall of 2022 for 6 months due to my setback. My brain healed underneath all the suffering I went through and even while I was tapering Mirt. I am mentally solid and able to be in life again. 

 

You will too. 

 

Hibari 

[Kaylaq]

Thank you for your comments, it truly helps, …I wish there were more success stories here to read, it gives us hope!! Hope is all we have through most of this!  Thank you, 😊 

[Boges11]

At lower part of mirt compound bottle I don’t have adverse reactions after taking dose , starting new bottle all severe adverse reactions after taking dose come flooding back (severe RLS for hours and all the way til morning, aka hell, insomnia, stomach issues, lights flashing behind eyes, extreme body jolts). 
Then lower I get in bottle, and it’s shaken up well each time, RLS fades to almost none, no reaction after taking with other symptoms, sleep 3-4hrs. 

Have the withdrawal symptoms weak, nauseated and bloating bad yet starving, unsteady walking, headaches during day…. 

Thoughts please on bottle issue. I’m changing every 15/16 days bc at higher dose so it’s not like it’s getting to 30day advised use/throw out after.

Please help with thoughts…. thanks!

[DataGuy]

How are you doing, @Boges11? Did you try switching back to tablets? I am not really sure the difference in ingredients between tablet and liquid solutions, would depend on the brand. Where are you at with dosage etc? Has anything you have tried helped with symptoms at all? 

On 2/8/2024 at 7:12 PM, Boges11 said:

this being said….. who could give a pharmacology thought on what the range of half life could reduce to for people that are ultra rapid metabolizers? If it’s 20-40hrs, what could be the reduction for ultra rapid people? Is 20 for that reason shown? Is that what ultra rapid people and normal is maybe 30 while slow is the 40ish hrs?

 

I know many factors go into this… So not looking for an exact, but just trying to understand what it could mean for an ultra rapid metabolizer and if a second dose is going to be necessary, no matter what to try to come down on this.

 

I’m in Houston and can’t find anybody to get a pharmacological opinion on this. Know of anyone? Or have any information?

thank you. 

 

I don't think you need to worry about the rapid metabolizer thing, @Boges11. I think you said you already tried splitting the dose and it made things worse. Is that right? That will trump any theoretical analysis you might get from a pharmacologist. We care about real world results and improving your symptoms. The rapid metabolizer status could mean any number of things, but we just don't know how relevant it is. It could also simply have been an error or false positive. In any case, it's not worth worrying about too much. Could always try dose-splitting again if you feel the last time was just a fluke. 

 

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. Hope you are doing better. I'm confident Mark and Nicole will give you good advice. 

[Boges11]

I’m in a spot I can’t describe it’s so so challenging. 
I am having beyond ability to cope thru the magnitude of this all. I’ve coped for 4yrs and this level of aka I can’t even describe. And the urges to scream all day and very against who I am urges I constantly fight against violent urges. 
this is beyond what I can handle. 
im in hysterics sobbing uncontrollably for hours. Scream crying and throwing things and I can’t get the level of horror out of my body.

nothing helps anymore. I am down to 6.25mg which I can’t even tell you how difficult it’s been. I’m getting some 2-3hrs  sleep some nights thankfully but the waking hours are every mental and symptom all rolled together and the internal screaming in my brain and agitation urges are so deep it’s causing me to sob uncontrollably bc I know what this lead to already before.

now I am on a medicine I can’t get off of. Before I was off everything. 

Please please help me out. I don’t see very many cases like min which terrifies me to no end.thx 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, Boges11 said:

I’m in a spot I can’t describe it’s so so challenging. 
I am having beyond ability to cope thru the magnitude of this all. I’ve coped for 4yrs and this level of aka I can’t even describe. And the urges to scream all day and very against who I am urges I constantly fight against violent urges. 
this is beyond what I can handle. 
im in hysterics sobbing uncontrollably for hours. Scream crying and throwing things and I can’t get the level of horror out of my body.

nothing helps anymore. I am down to 6.25mg which I can’t even tell you how difficult it’s been. I’m getting some 2-3hrs  sleep some nights thankfully but the waking hours are every mental and symptom all rolled together and the internal screaming in my brain and agitation urges are so deep it’s causing me to sob uncontrollably bc I know what this lead to already before.

now I am on a medicine I can’t get off of. Before I was off everything. 

Please please help me out. I don’t see very many cases like min which terrifies me to no end.thx 

I and am with you  @Boges11 The violent urges, throwing things, destroying things, agitation, the screaming, the high level of horror in body (esp. upon waking), the very little sleep. For me, strong urges to self harm. I wish I could cry more. It may or may not help to hear my words but wanted to say again you're not alone in this hell on earth. My doctor tells me high levels of magnesium help with this but I don't know that for sure. I have a hard time with supplements. Let's try to hold on together. Sending so much love from a fellow sufferer ❤️

[Boges11]

I am so sorry @Bailey

ssme and hope people who’ve been on here a long time and know their way around aka can please chime in on how to navigate this all. 
hugs 

[Boges11]

@Bailey are you getting any feedback?

hugs 

[Bailey]

16 minutes ago, Boges11 said:

@Bailey are you getting any feedback?

hugs 

I'm not. Not yet @Boges11. Hugs back to you. 

[Jaffa]

@Boges11

Im so sorry for all you are suffering. You write about it so well. I’ve had Akathisia before and it’s unbearable but we bare it anyway. I haven’t looked through your thread recently. Have things been better at any point? Have things got worse just recently? What do you do to manage the symptoms? Can you go for a walk? I’m thinking of you. Akathisia is the worst of the worst. Please know that people do survive it and they do get better. Hold on my friend. You will get better too. 

[Dahlia50]

@Boges11 @Bailey
Dont know how to cope with this either. 7 months off. After taking zoloft for 13 years. Feels like I will suffer for years. 
It's so unlike me as a person but I feel internal violent urges of terror too. So I recognize it. Agitation. Screaming inside. Crying. Panic about being in this situation. Akathisia-like but no RLS. Severe pain in the head. Feels like neither body nor the brain is working. Body has neurological problems, never experienced before. 

Could it be Neuro toxic damage or WD.

 

I'm sorry you're suffering like this.

💛

 

 

[Boges11]

@Dahlia50 @Bailey @Jaffa

hi yall, I’m so sorry. This is so so so hard.

yes the violent urges are what’s really undoing me. 
 

any experienced posters, or any moderators or alto able to help us out that are in very tough situations with thoughts on how to manage slow tapers with severe self harm urges? 
 

our systems each have had quite the hell changes and yet I don’t know if holding for months will bring stabilizing? 
 

Any key observations as others have had the extreme symptoms and the approach? It’s hard for my brain to search posts of how similar cases have handled this- I know we are all different but if anyone can develop how the more severe cases and outcomes with the paths they took, it helps others kind of get a visual. 
I know lots of variables and people are diffeeenr and it’s all a test and learn for each case which is the worst about all this bc we don’t know until too late. 
but the exposure to the meds that are adverse acting - have people stabilized that held for months and months? 
 

for those that maybe aren’t adverse but systems very sensitized and having severe self harm urges and aggression, does doing a slow taper keep all this going on for years?
 

jjsy need any kind of feedback do what people have observed for the unfortunate very tough cases.

I this doesn’t mean everyone else isn’t struggling and having a terrible time,  just for the very severe cases it is different and people literally are struggling second to second. Need  more hand holding and feedback at certsin points.

 

for my situation I’m now 5mo on mirt, have been horrific since beginning taking it. Have had challenging aka from 3yr benzo taper ending 3mo prior to being given mirt. Tapered from 7.5 to 6.25 and it is beyond words. Doesn’t always act adverse during the nigh after taking like for a long While it did, but some nights it will be lots of symptoms. But the self harm urges are the worst accompanied with the aka and rage, wanting to scream non stop (didn’t have this until Mirtazapine).

do people holding with this stuff see improvements?  

 

thanks to anyone who can give idea. Very Much appreciated.

[Jaffa]

@Boges11

 

Im really not qualified or knowledgeable enough to make any real recommendations. I just want to say that I'm witnessing what you are going through and Im down here in Australia holding your hand and hoping with everything that is in me that things start to settle down soon.  Like I said, I'm no expert but it seems to me from looking at your signature that you are in benzo withdrawal and all that has been added has caused a kindling effect. I'm on mirtazapine 15mg and I also hate it. I'm also on 25mg of sertraline. Ive been in a much worse place but I think things have settled quite a bit now. My nervous system is very fragile and stress sets everything off again. 

1 hour ago, Boges11 said:

our systems each have had quite the hell changes and yet I don’t know if holding for months will bring stabilizing? 

At this stage I feel that holding is your only option. Is the mirtazapine at least giving you some sleep? I get the restless legs in the morning from mirtazapine. Uuurgh. Are you able to get out for a walk? Are you eating good food? Baths? I know this is next level suffering and Ive been there. Its so very difficult not to freak out and spiral when these symptoms become severe. The problem is that these spirals add another layer of suffering to the primary suffering. Is there anything that helps to bring down the severity of symptoms? I sometimes did some diaphragmatic breathing exercises and it helped. Im going to light a candle in house for you today Boges11. I am sending you warm healing energies across the ocean 

[Hibari]

Hi @Boges11

 

I'm not a moderator and can only offer you support from my experience. 

 

Self-harming thoughts are scary and can be scary for people to witness. I had so many feelings of despair and hopelessness at different points in my many tapers.

 

The first time I tapered Mirt, I cried uncontrollable for days during cuts and was so angry at different points along the journey.  My brain was high jacked by the medication and no one could change that for me.

 

I really wanted someone to fix it and looked on the withdrawal sites for someone to do that but they couldn't. All they could do was offer me the best tapering information they had and then the members offered me emotional support. 

 

As you know, I am med free now and I am doing well. These are the following strategies I used and offer them to you.

 

Ate low histamine (good for Mirt withdrawal).

 

Took a vegetarian DAO supplement to keep histamine reactions in check.

 

Worked with a withdrawal coach to help me stay the course. I've worked with a few coaches during tapers and found them to be helpful. 

 

Joined a Mirt support group on FB. There is one called Mirtazapine Warriors that is very active. 

 

Worked with a psych-k practitioner to help with subconscious beliefs. 

 

Stayed connected to positive tapering buddies who understand what this is like. 

 

Distraction of any kind. 

 

 

You will have times where you howl at the moon because of this process and you are allowed to do so. All you can do is find things to hang onto while you go through this. It's a horrible process but people on this site and others break free of meds all the time. 

 

Hibari