StormInATeacup: My intro + the importance of a transition to liquid

[StormInATeacup]

First post here - thanks for all the information you've all provided to me before. This is a truly valuable website.

Just re-iterating the importance of transitioning from a tablet to a liquid before tapering (well for me anyway).

Every time I've tried the home-made liquid taper using a syringe, even extremely slowly, I've had awful withdrawal and had to re-instate. 

This time however I've followed this protocol first (which took about a month):

 

3/4 dose of tablet, 1/4 dose of liquid (10 days)

1/2 dose of tablet, 1/2 dose of liquid (10 days)

1/4 dose of tablet, 3/4 dose of liquid (10 days)

 

I'm now stable on 25mg of liquid Sertraline. What's even more unusual is going from 25mg - 50mg was very easy. Anything less than 25mg has been almost impossible until I found this website.

The usual story, Dr's have told me to "just stop taking it". One Dr even refused to give me 25mg tablets saying that "50mg was the lowest dose, and that stopping it abruptly wouldn't yield any side effects".  

I've never been more convinced of a monetary agenda at this point.....but I digress.  

 

Other important tools which I feel are worth mentioning are:

 

• Gut health (probiotics).
• Low inflammatory diet (especially limited bread and sugar).
• No coffee (tea seems to be fine).
• Magnesium.
• B Vitamins.
• Buteyko breathing. Of all the mindfulness/meditation/breathing techniques - this one cuts through all the nonsense and gets the parasympathetic nervous system working almost straight away. Very important for people like us with potential nervous system damage.

 

Good luck to you all, and again, thank you for helping me.

Edited February 26 by Emonda
Minor edit as requested

[Emonda]

Welcome @StormInATeacup

 

Sounds like you've done a bit of reading of the site, well done.

 

On 2/10/2024 at 7:33 PM, StormInATeacup said:

I'm now stable on 25mg of liquid Sertraline.

 

Good news.

 

Are you now tapering as per this: Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

On 2/10/2024 at 7:33 PM, StormInATeacup said:

The usual story, Dr's have told me to "just stop taking it".

 

That would lead to some nasty WD symptoms: Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

Have you seen these links:

 

Windows and waves pattern of stabilization

 

Emotional Spirals

 

Non-drug coping strategies

 

On 2/10/2024 at 7:33 PM, StormInATeacup said:

Other important tools which I feel are worth mentioning are:

 

• Gut health (probiotics).
• Low inflammatory diet (especially limited bread and sugar).
• No coffee (tea seems to be fine).
• Magnesium.
• B Vitamins.
• Buteyko breathing. Of all the mindfulness/meditation/breathing techniques - this one cuts through all the nonsense and gets the parasympathetic nervous system working almost straight away. Very important for people like us with potential nervous system damage.

 

The other item to add to this list is to avoid alcohol.

 

This is your own Introduction topic.  Each member has only ONE Introduction topic.  Your own Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions and the place to journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means you do not have to repeat your story. 

 

Once again, welcome to S.A.

 

Emonda

 

 

 

 

[StormInATeacup]

On 2/11/2024 at 9:04 AM, Emonda said:

Are you now tapering as per this: Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Have you seen these links:

 

Windows and waves pattern of stabilization

 

Emotional Spirals

 

Non-drug coping strategies

 

The other item to add to this list is to avoid alcohol.

 

 

Way ahead of you there  Been reading through all the resources and alcohol is a big no-no for me.

I'm so glad I found this website.

I'll keep this thread updating to share my progress.

[StormInATeacup]

Does a home-made water suspension damage the effectiveness? - Sertraline/Zoloft.

 

I've been tapering down from 25mg tablet to 25mg liquid (home-made) over ~ 1 month.

 

3/4 dose of tablet, 1/4 dose of liquid (10 days)

1/2 dose of tablet, 1/2 dose of liquid (10 days)

3/4 dose of tablet, 1/4 dose of liquid (10 days)

 

What I've noticed is that on days 3-4 of liquid dose (still at 25mg) I find a huge increase in withdrawal. Extremely tired, depersonalised, depressed and irritable.  

Today as a test I've taken 12.5mg tablet (half of my usual dose) and this feels stronger than a liquid dose of 25mg.  

 

My method of liquid suspension:

• Boil filtered water.
• Let the water cool.
• Mix 10ml water in with 100mg Sertraline = 1ml per 10mg.
• Measure out 2.5ml per day (25mg).

I live in the UK where temperatures are low. The suspension is kept in a miniature glass bottle, in a cool dark place.

 

Would appreciate any advice.

Thanks

[Erimus]

2 hours ago, StormInATeacup said:

3/4 dose of tablet, 1/4 dose of liquid (10 days)

1/2 dose of tablet, 1/2 dose of liquid (10 days)

3/4 dose of tablet, 1/4 dose of liquid (10 days)

Is that last line meant to say: “1/4 dose of tablet, 3/4 dose of liquid”?

 

2 hours ago, StormInATeacup said:

 

My method of liquid suspension:

• Boil filtered water.
• Let the water cool.
• Mix 10ml water in with 100mg Sertraline = 1ml per 10mg.
• Measure out 2.5ml per day (25mg).

I live in the UK where temperatures are low. The suspension is kept in a miniature glass bottle, in a cool dark place.

Looks fine. I personally wouldn’t boil the water, and I’d keep it in a dark coloured glass bottle in the fridge.
 

Are you able to get 25mg tablets in the UK? I was told they didn’t exist here, would make life easier. 
 

If you’re struggling with the liquid you could always try cutting and weighing until you get down to the minute doses. Or perhaps your body just needs more time on the full liquid dose to adjust.

[StormInATeacup]

21 minutes ago, Erimus said:

Is that last line meant to say: “1/4 dose of tablet, 3/4 dose of liquid”?

 

Looks fine. I personally wouldn’t boil the water, and I’d keep it in a dark coloured glass bottle in the fridge.
 

Are you able to get 25mg tablets in the UK? I was told they didn’t exist here, would make life easier. 
 

If you’re struggling with the liquid you could always try cutting and weighing until you get down to the minute doses. Or perhaps your body just needs more time on the full liquid dose to adjust.

 

Ah yes good spot on the typo - shame I can't seem to edit it now.

They do exist in the UK but I had to push for them. This is what I've been using for the taper.

The reason for boiling the water was to sterilise it. Keeping it in the fridge isn't really an option (I have children). I do keep it in a cool/dark place though.

I find it really odd that 50mg down to 25mg was almost no bother, but 25mg down to even a liquid, or anything less is impossible.

Yesterday I felt like I was carrying around a concrete body all day. Today I've had to take a full 25mg tablet to stabilise and within an hour or two I'm completely normal.

It's not possible to taper @ 10% - even with 25mg tablets. Even the most precise tablet cutter will only get them down to 6.25mg chunks I've found.

 

[Erimus]

1 minute ago, StormInATeacup said:

 

Ah yes good spot on the typo - shame I can't seem to edit it now.

They do exist in the UK but I had to push for them. This is what I've been using for the taper.

The reason for boiling the water was to sterilise it. Keeping it in the fridge isn't really an option (I have children). I do keep it in a cool/dark place though.

I find it really odd that 50mg down to 25mg was almost no bother, but 25mg down to even a liquid, or anything less is impossible.

Yesterday I felt like I was carrying around a concrete body all day. Today I've had to take a full 25mg tablet to stabilise and within an hour or two I'm completely normal.

 

Can't you just dissolve your 25mg tablet in a glass of water to begin with? Doesn't matter the quantity if you're staying on 25mg, as long as you drink all the water.

 

5 minutes ago, StormInATeacup said:

It's not possible to taper @ 10% - even with 25mg tablets. Even the most precise tablet cutter will only get them down to 6.25mg chunks I've found.

We don't use pill cutters to create our doses when using the crushing and weighing technique. You have to buy a set of micro scales (the Gemini-20 is popular) and empty capsules. Using the average weight of your tablet (measured in milligrams pill weight - mgpw), you calculate the necessary reduction and create your doses. This would be much better if you fear your children accessing the medication in the fridge. These pre-made capsules can be stored in a pill box or bottle at room temperature, somewhere away from prying eyes.

[Erimus]

This is the thread for using a scale to weigh and measure doses:

 

For example:

 

The first thing to understand is that your tablet is 25mg active ingredient (mgai). This is not to be confused with the weight of the tablet on the scales. Your tablet probably won't weigh 25 milligrams. The reading on the scales is what we call milligrams pill weight (mgpw), or grams pill weight (gpw).

 

Lets hypothesise that you weigh 20 of your 25mgai tablets, and the average weight is 0.075gpw. If you wanted to reduce by 10% (I'd recommend starting at 5%), your first dose would be 0.0675gpw. You would make up capsules containing this amount of powder. Wait a few weeks, then rinse and repeat.

[StormInATeacup]

7 hours ago, Erimus said:

Can't you just dissolve your 25mg tablet in a glass of water to begin with? Doesn't matter the quantity if you're staying on 25mg, as long as you drink all the water.

 

We don't use pill cutters to create our doses when using the crushing and weighing technique. You have to buy a set of micro scales (the Gemini-20 is popular) and empty capsules. Using the average weight of your tablet (measured in milligrams pill weight - mgpw), you calculate the necessary reduction and create your doses. This would be much better if you fear your children accessing the medication in the fridge. These pre-made capsules can be stored in a pill box or bottle at room temperature, somewhere away from prying eyes.

Great advice thank you. Originally I wanted to make a batch of suspension liquid so I didn't have to dissolve and measure my dose every day. 

[Emma09]

Hi! I'm currently tapering zoloft using liquid right now too. I don't really have anything to add but just wanted to comment and say hi, I hope things are going okay. 

[StormInATeacup]

Quote

On 4/11/2024 at 4:43 AM, Emma09 said:

Hi! I'm currently tapering zoloft using liquid right now too. I don't really have anything to add but just wanted to comment and say hi, I hope things are going okay. 

 

Thanks - I've actually had to re-instate my dosage of 25mg as I feel that the home-made liquid suspension may degrade after more than 1 day.

I was making a batch of 100mg/100ml (4 days worth) but on days 3-4 it didn't feel like I'd had a dose at all.

Next time I try a taper I'm going to make the solution every day.

Good luck to you. 

[Erimus]

3 hours ago, StormInATeacup said:

Thanks - I've actually had to re-instate my dosage of 25mg as I feel that the home-made liquid suspension may degrade after more than 1 day.

I was making a batch of 100mg/100ml (4 days worth) but on days 3-4 it didn't feel like I'd had a dose at all.

Next time I try a taper I'm going to make the solution every day.

Good luck to you. 

Likely because it wasn't kept in the fridge. You should be fine preparing your dose every day. If you read the thread on making a liquid you'll see that Rhiannon usually prepared her doses each day, and it worked fine.

 

Perhaps you could get a fridge lock box to store your liquid in.

Edited April 12 by Erimus

[StormInATeacup]

Failed taper - I'm at a complete loss now........

 

After several failed tapering attempts using a homemade suspension I've come to the conclusion that dissolving Sertraline (UK Zoloft) in water damages it's potency. 

 

To prove this I've very carefully done the following to eliminate any problems.

 

50mg daily dose:

• 1/4 dose liquid, 3/4 tablet (maintained for a month).
• 1/2 dose liquid, 1/2 tablet  (maintained for a month).
• 3/4 dose liquid, 1/4 tablet (maintained for a month).
• 100% liquid (maintained for a month). 

As I moved through the stages, I could feel it losing it's potency. Every aspect of my depression came back with a vengeance. 

 

I made sure I done the following:

• Dissolved the tablet on the day and consumed within 2 hours.
• Used the same 20ml measuring container, and the same 10ml syringe.
• Used the same brand of Sertraline.
• Threw away the part I don't want, and consume the remainder of the liquid (so as not to lose any of the medication that sticks to the glass beacon I have).

So for example at the 1/2 dose liquid, 1/2 tablet mark, I dissolved half of the tablet in water (and drank within 2 hours) and swallowed the other half whole.

 

Now after titrating for 3 months while keeping at the same dose (same brand) I have gone into severe withdrawal.

I'm back on 50mg tablet and within 24 hours I'm back to normal.

 

Apart from the minute amount of chlorine in the tap water, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

I can feel a tablet working almost within the hour, however dissolved, it seems to do nothing.

 

I really appreciate everything this site is supposed to be doing, but I can't help but think:

• I was severely depressed most of my adult life.
• Sertraline gave me my life back - I feel 'normal' on it.
• Maybe I do need to be permanently medicated?

So now I'm lost. It's clear the the world thinks that low Serotonin is a myth. Most people I speak to think that 'Big Pharma' is a con. Most people on here are desperate to get off their medication, but I'm starting to think - why am I doing this when it's actually making me feel normal.

 

Apologies for the rant. I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

 

[StormInATeacup]

Ok it seems as though the liquid taper is working well now. Some of my symptoms were down to a digestive issue which has now been resolved.  

 

Who would have thought that even transitioning from a tablet to a liquid would take this long?

 

Good luck everyone. 

[Erimus]

Just be careful with your reductions. From your signature it appears you are dropping 5mg each month, which means your percentage drop is increasing.

 

Your next 10% reduction would be 4mg, from 40mg to 36mg. Better to be safe than sorry.

[StormInATeacup]

4 minutes ago, Erimus said:

Just be careful with your reductions. From your signature it appears you are dropping 5mg each month, which means your percentage drop is increasing.

 

Your next 10% reduction would be 4mg, from 40mg to 36mg. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

Ok thanks for the reminder. Will make sure to keep it at 10% of the current dose.

I notice you're on Sertraline too and you crashed going from 60mg to 58mg? Or did you taper more than that during that period?

[Erimus]

2 hours ago, StormInATeacup said:

I notice you're on Sertraline too and you crashed going from 60mg to 58mg? Or did you taper more than that during that period?

I got down to 52.5mg before things really started going wrong. I thought I could race against it and push through, but it turns out that isn't possible with these drugs.

 

It would've been much quicker in the long run if I had gone at a nice slow pace.

Edited Tuesday at 04:12 PM by Erimus