maya77: Tapering Escilatopram in Germany - supplements, what's covered, thoughts

[maya77]

Hey guys, 

 

I've been on Escilatopram/ Lexapro for 17 years and I went from 20mg to 15mg with not much fuss. I stayed there for around 8 months coz I kept missing appointments with my psychiatrist. In those months, I started taking Omega 3, Lion's Mane and I'm on Probiotics and Magnesium anyway. I also started going to the gym 3 times a week. If making exercise a habit is a mystery to you, read this amazing book https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits. It might be important to note that I've been on an intense healing journey for 4 years. I've done lots of talk therapy(covered), breathwork(not covered), subconscious therapy(not covered), somatic massage(not covered), and done lots of reading on the nervous system, anger, etc. All of this built my self-awareness, so I know my limits a bit better. 

 

Then I went down to 10mg with liquid Escilatopram and had a rough week. I was very angry, and lots of thoughts/ feelings came up. I'm guessing this was all suppressed by the medicine. So I started looking for urgent therapy. In Germany, you need a consultation appointment to verify that you need therapy before you actually get therapy. In Berlin, you go through KV Berlin (association of Doctors); you can even make an appointment online now: https://www.116117.de/de/index.php. Click on the time to book the appointment. But you need to go back to KV database of doctors to figure out what languages these available doctors speak. Make sure your browser is not automatically translating; it messes up the search.

 

So, after the first rough week of withdrawal, I've had a week of feeling ok with bouts of irrational anger, which was under control. Also, I didn't push myself and took naps when overwhelmed, normally 2 hours each. I also took pharmacy-grade Ketamine to cope with the really rough moments and took 1.2gm of magic mushrooms once in that 2 week period. I only went to the gym twice this week and did a big bike ride and forest walk. I also added B-complex to my supplements. 

So I did the consultation appointment, and she told me to go to a day clinic within a hospital where they would also deal with my chronic pain and give me daily therapy (covered). Apparently, that clinic will get me on to weekly therapy sessions once I'm ready for that. I will do that after Easter weekend and continue tapering. There's also an option to stay at a rehabilitation clinic (covered) which has a daily schedule of therapy and exercise. 

 

So the journey continues. I've tried to get off these meds before, and I feel a lot more stable and in control. I do believe the supplements and exercise help. My husband is also being super supportive.

 

I see my psychiatrist soon and will taper down to maybe 7mg or 5mg. I'm not the most patient person, I want to be able to go back to work quickly without biting anyone's head off. Has anyone tried vagus nerve exercises to calm the nervous system in these bad moments?

[Erimus]

Hello, and welcome to Surviving Antidepressants. We are a peer support forum to assist in tapering off psychiatric drugs safely, or recovering from psychiatric drug withdrawal.

 

This topic is for anything relating to you, and any questions you have. Please do not start another topic.

 

We recommend tapering by no more than 10% of your CURRENT dose each month, to limit withdrawal symptoms. E.g. 10mg --> 9mg --> 8.1mg --> 7.29mg

 

You are currently tapering far too fast considering the number of years you have been taking escitalopram. A micro taper would be more appropriate given your prolounged use, especially considering you already have the liquid.

 

32 minutes ago, maya77 said:

I see my psychiatrist soon and will taper down to maybe 7mg or 5mg. I'm not the most patient person, I want to be able to go back to work quickly without biting anyone's head off.

You will have to learn patience in order to succeed with this. We all want to get off the medication and get our lives back, but the brain requires careful and considerate tapering in order to gently coax the drug from our system.

 

32 minutes ago, maya77 said:

I also took pharmacy-grade Ketamine to cope with the really rough moments and took 1.2gm of magic mushrooms once in that 2 week period.

We also don't suggest this, due to the unpredictable reactions it can cause. We can only advise you using our opinion, and the information on the forum, however.

 

All the answers you are looking for regarding tapering and antidepressant withdrawal are on this site. Please search around and continue to read as much as you can manage. Use the site search function to search for specific words or phrases, such as drugs or symptoms.

 

Here are a few of the most useful links:

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

Micro tapering

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

We only recommend two supplements. Omega 3 Fish Oil and Magnesium. Both should be introduced separately and increased slowly.

 

I will be inactive until Monday, so please be patient if you have further questions.

 

Regards

Erimus

Edited March 29 by Erimus

[zma1]

A awesome that so much is covered in Germany, I wish it was the same in the US. But as for vagus nerve question, I’ve seen contradictory things about it, some say to stimulate it calms you others say it does the opposite! I usually go for warm bath w epsom salt or a silly movie w my dog on my lap if I’m needing calming. Exercise is the gold standard, as you mentioned, esp walking in nature which is theeee best. Also I’m lucky to have access to a public beach. It’s an hour drive but somehow just sitting near the ocean is really calming as well. Congratulations on your progress thus far, you’re doing awesome work taking care of yourself. It’s rough journey take care❤️❤️

[maya77]

Hey guys, 

 

Thanks for your replies. I have read quite a bit on this site, it's a great resource.

 

Can I clarify, the 10% reduction approach is meant to ensure there is no withdrawal? I'm thinking I just have to get through the withdrawal, just like weaning off any addiction. 

 

With the K, it's used to treat depression and I feel really fresh the morning after taking some. 

 

Everything I've tried so far has been working for me. But I'm scared of what happens below 10mg. We will see. 

 

[maya77]

Also, I tried to join a few threads before I wrote this but I couldn't find the reply box. Are some threads closed?

[Erimus]

On 3/30/2024 at 12:17 PM, maya77 said:

Can I clarify, the 10% reduction approach is meant to ensure there is no withdrawal? I'm thinking I just have to get through the withdrawal, just like weaning off any addiction. 

It's about limiting withdrawal, and allowing the brain to catch up before making more changes. You aren't addicted to your antidepressant, your brain is dependent on it. It's not just a case of making big cuts and toughing it out, the brain dictates the pace we can go at.

 

On 3/30/2024 at 6:43 PM, maya77 said:

Also, I tried to join a few threads before I wrote this but I couldn't find the reply box. Are some threads closed?

Some threads are locked, and as a new member your first few posts are hidden pending approval.

[maya77]

On 4/1/2024 at 5:30 PM, Erimus said:

Some threads are locked, and as a new member your first few posts are hidden pending approval.

I see, I would have preferred to add to the supplements thread since there isn't much info on Lion's mane yet. So I started this instead.

[maya77]

Had a discussion with my doctor and will be reducing 1mg per week and see how I feel. 

[withhopeinmyheart]

Hey, 

 

1mg per week is a lot. Symptoms can take a while to show up. At that speed they can add up in the background and hit you all at once. Which would come close to a cold turkey. 

[maya77]

Thank you for the heads up and I'm sorry you went through that.

 

I read that delayed response to reducing medication is likely to be a relapse, while instant response is withdrawal. Can anyone clarify?

 

Do you know what the delayed response could be caused by other than a relapse?

[Erimus]

2 hours ago, maya77 said:

Thank you for the heads up and I'm sorry you went through that.

 

I read that delayed response to reducing medication is likely to be a relapse, while instant response is withdrawal. Can anyone clarify?

 

Do you know what the delayed response could be caused by other than a relapse?

If you taper properly you don't need to worry about delayed response, as you are allowing your nervous system time to undo all the changes it has made over the years.

 

Withdrawal symptoms can often be delayed when you make too many changes before the nervous system has time to catch up. If you quickly reduce by 1mg/week it will be very difficult to discern what is happening and why.

[maya77]

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2020/04/stop-antidepressants

 

I thought this was interesting. So while tapering, the lower the dose, the slower you should go. 

[Tweed9674]

On 4/4/2024 at 4:54 AM, maya77 said:

Had a discussion with my doctor and will be reducing 1mg per week and see how I feel. 

This seems way too fast, in my opinion. Acute withdrawal is no joke and Protracted withdrawal is even worse. Don't do this to yourself!

[maya77]

11 hours ago, maya77 said:

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2020/04/stop-antidepressants

 

I thought this was interesting. So while tapering, the lower the dose, the slower you should go. 

Hence the 10% taper you guys suggest. 

 

Thanks for all your input and patience while I figure this out. I will go slower.

[maya77]

I'm back on 15mg.

 

Trying to find therapy covered by insurance gave me a little breakdown. It ended up being a wild goose chase with plenty of bureaucracy while empathy is not really a German thing. The main thing in the day clinics is group therapy in German, while the hospital that has English group therapy only caters to people in that area. They kicked me out of there pretty badly. I hate being in the pharmaceutical prison. Sending you all my best wishes and thanks.