KateH: Intro

[KateH]

Thank you for allowing me to be here. I am in quite a bind but think I would be accepted and understood here. I never in my wildest dreams imagined going through this. I have been living abroad for almost a. year. I arrived in the Republic of Georgia last month needing a refill of my prescription Gabapentin 300 mg. I have been on it for 20+ years for depression, anxiety, and insomnia. Same dose, every day, 20+ years. I am 67 years old.   Georgia refused to refill the prescription so I arranged to come to Turkey for a refill. In the meantime, I began tapering as I was running low on pills. I had no idea about tapering slowly and so began to decrease by 25% every five days. By the time I was at 75 mg. I was in severe withdrawal- insomnia, agitation, anxiety, depression, pain, nausea, and dizziness. Upon arrival in Turkey, I reinstated the full dose, another mistake. I immediately slept through the night but other symptoms have become increasingly worse. Primarily, extreme somnolence and weakness, depersonalization, terror attacks, depression and anxiety, dizziness, and nausea. The symptoms are beginning to abate, albeit slowly. I intended to start a slow taper when I stabilized but I wonder when, or if, that will ever happen. I feel I have done irreparable harm to my nervous system. I have gone from being an active 67-year-old to feeling feeble and disabled. I am too ill to fly back to the States and finding knowledgeable persons in 
Turkey for help hasn't produced any results. I am willing to travel within the EU to get help. I could handle a short flight. Thanks for staying with me so far.

Looking forward to connecting and recovering. 

Edited April 25 by FireflyFyte
Updated title

[FireflyFyte]

Hi KateH,

 

Welcome to SA. Please summarize your drug history in your signature by following the instructions at How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature. You may need to be on a computer to complete this.

 

1 hour ago, KateH said:

The symptoms are beginning to abate, albeit slowly.

 

This is a positive sign. I would recommend holding at your current dose to see if you can stabilize further. Making changes in doses can contribute to instability so it is important to stay consistent to allow your CNS a break.

 

Are you planning to taper once stable?

 

Thanks,

 

Firefly

[Tweed9674]

Hi!

 

First, I hope you don't blame yourself for this. Not being able to get a refill is a very difficult situation.

The way I see it, you started a taper, and it bought you precious time to get a refill before running out of meds.

It was the best you could do in these circumstances.

 

Withdrawal symptoms are no joke. Going through this while in a foreign country is no easy task. I can only imagine the pain and fears.

I don't think you made permanent damage. Recovery from this is possible and as @FireflyFyte already said, you are showing positive sign.

 

Stay strong and keep us updated!

[KateH]

Hi, Firefly and Tweed 9674,

    First, thank you both for taking the time to respond! Yes, once stabilized I will begin a much slower taper. In hopes of feeling better, I tapered down a little once, another time, upward. Both times I messed myself up further. I have not changed my dose since. Thank you for confirming. 

    I appreciate the words "It was the best you could do..." Yes, it was the best I could do and I have put the mallet away. Being a nurse for over forty years, I had no clue, and I thought I should have known better.  I am learning the hard way and good will come from this. 

    Today was even more positive signs! So, I am very grateful for every inch forward and this group. 

       

[FireflyFyte]

12 minutes ago, KateH said:

Yes, once stabilized I will begin a much slower taper.

 

When you are ready, we have information on tapering Gabapentin at Tips for tapering off Neurontin (gabapentin).

 

We also recommend tapering no more than 10% of your previous dose per month. You can read more at Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

15 minutes ago, KateH said:

Today was even more positive signs! So, I am very grateful for every inch forward and this group. 

 

I am glad to hear this and hope that you continue to improve.

[Catwoman73]

6 hours ago, KateH said:

I appreciate the words "It was the best you could do..." Yes, it was the best I could do and I have put the mallet away. Being a nurse for over forty years, I had no clue, and I thought I should have known better.  I am learning the hard way and good will come from this. 

       

Hi @KateH- I'm new here too, and yes, we do make the best decisions we can for ourselves at the time.  And we just weren't told the realities.  I am (was, I suppose) a respiratory therapist, and you would think after watching a million patients over last 25 years coming out of drug induced stupors in the ICU, I would have been more aware.  But there's no sense in looking back- we can only move forward.  I appreciate your positive outlook- I'm crazy optimistic that this has all happened to me for a reason, and I'm determined to figure out what that reason is!

 

Anyway- I wanted to say hello and welcome to a fellow healthcare professional.  I look forward to following your journey!

[Jaffa]

Welcome @KateH,

 

I'm 55 and it amazes me that you have been travelling around the world when hit with this withdrawal. Beyond my comprehension how you can do that. Amazing! I'm guessing you must be a free spirit. I hope you continue to stabilise and that your situation improves really soon.

[KateH]

Hi Jaffa,

     Thank you for your kind words. Yes, travel in one's later years is challenging, let alone going through Gab withdrawal. We are one year into a two-year trip. Fortunately, we have a three-month visa in Turkey where I can hunker down and sleep! Making a trans-Atlantic flight is not feasible at this time. One of the most difficult aspects of this has been the loneliness and isolation.

     On the other hand, my nervous system can't handle any stress, so staying home and sleeping has been therapeutic! I had my hopes up the other day when I found an addiction psychiatrist in Istanbul who I thought knew about withdrawal who sent me home with fifty tabs of Valium. I have given up on trying to find help here. This website has been the most beneficial thus far. Thanks again for reaching out. I don't feel so alone here. I am grateful. 

[KateH]

On 4/26/2024 at 1:14 AM, Catwoman73 said:

Hi @KateH- I'm new here too, and yes, we do make the best decisions we can for ourselves at the time.  And we just weren't told the realities.  I am (was, I suppose) a respiratory therapist, and you would think after watching a million patients over last 25 years coming out of drug induced stupors in the ICU, I would have been more aware.  But there's no sense in looking back- we can only move forward.  I appreciate your positive outlook- I'm crazy optimistic that this has all happened to me for a reason, and I'm determined to figure out what that reason is!

 

Anyway- I wanted to say hello and welcome to a fellow healthcare professional.  I look forward to following your journey!

 

Hello Catwoman73, 

    So nice to hear from a fellow healthcare worker! Thank you for sharing your experience as an RT and a similar path of being unaware of the devastating effects of withdrawal. You are so right, there is no use in looking back but can only move forward. What are the things that have helped you the most in moving forward? Are you retired from RT? 

[Catwoman73]

6 hours ago, KateH said:

 

Hello Catwoman73, 

    So nice to hear from a fellow healthcare worker! Thank you for sharing your experience as an RT and a similar path of being unaware of the devastating effects of withdrawal. You are so right, there is no use in looking back but can only move forward. What are the things that have helped you the most in moving forward? Are you retired from RT? 

Hi Kate- I'm actually on disability.  I developed long covid, and can no longer work.  Having loads of fun trying to taper escitalopram, deal with long covid symptoms, and updose low dose naltrexone all at the same time lol.  It's a confusing mess, but I'm just moving slowly, and rolling with the punches.

 

I wish I could tell you exactly what has helped me to move forward.  It has been a slow process.  I think getting long covid was a huge factor- it has lead to a real identity crisis!  I think those of us working in healthcare tend to really draw our identity from our careers, and when I lost that, I had a lot of depression and anxiety.  I think that lead me to understand that these pills are garbage, and may have helped me for a short minute, but they weren't doing anything anymore.  Then I started wondering who I was without the pills... that led to more depression and anxiety.  Eventually I got mad- I've been on these damned things for most of the last 30 years, and I don't know who I am anymore!  After the anger came a sense of determination- to get off the pills, learn to experience normal human emotions in a healthy way, deal with past traumas, and learn to live in the moment, rather than ruminating about the past, and worrying about the future.  It's still a work in progress lol- I have some really bad days.  Being on disability has really helped though- taking time to just concentrate on my own wellness is helpful.  And I think the other major factor is my therapist.  I've had therapists in the past, but I still kept a LOT hidden.  I guess I wasn't ready to deal with much of the trauma from my past.  Well, brutal honesty with her and myself has been very important.  Despite all the crazy things happening in my body, I have felt this tremendous sense of calm since I have unburdened myself, and I am truly able to take things minute by minute now.  She has helped me learn to accept and just be in the bad moments, because the bad times will pass!  My family is extremely supportive, and that has helped.  I feel so, so lucky every day.  My heart breaks for those who don't have a lot of support- it can't be easy.

 

That was long and jumbled- I hope it made some sense lol! 

 

How are you feeling?  I'm assuming you decided not to take the valium lol... that's their solution for everything- more pills! 🙄

[KateH]

Hello Catwoman73,

   I am sorry you have Long COVID in the midst of tapering Escitiopram while adjusting your LDN dosage. Do you think the LDN is helping long COVID? Long COVID sounds so much like withdrawal, you must be courageous and determined to keep going! I was able to see your record of tapering down to 10 mg. That must feel good. Have you had many withdrawal symptoms on the way or have you been successful at holding at a dose or returning to a previous dose until symptoms subsided? If you feel comfortable sharing this...

      I retired two years ago from a 40+ years nursing career and also went through an identity crisis. I would call the process I went through like grieving the loss of a loved one. I was depressed, bewildered, and did not know why I was getting up every morning. I remember asking my husband if he would retire so we could travel abroad, he said yes, and three years later here we are Turkey going through Gab withdrawal! It never ceases to amaze me what is around the next corner. 

      It sounds like you had some very distinct turning points that have/are propelling you forward in recovery and a new life without pills. You are so fortunate to have an excellent-sounding therapist! What a goldmine. Having that deep level of trust in another person who can help you unburden is priceless. You must have been ready and willing to do the hard work of therapy and I am so happy it has paid off for you. I have had numerous therapists who have helped me with unburdening. The most beneficial for me were EMDR, reparenting, and IFS. I am also in several twelve-step groups that have kept me afloat, especially since leaving the US 10 months ago. I have found out, however, that the program does not help with this issue. I have been told "Write a 4th step" and "Find a sponsee, get out of yourself..." Neither of these suggestions have been helpful. This forum is helpful. Do you have other supports you might recommend? I tried going to NA once but realized I am not an addict. I never in 20+ years increased my dose, thought about increasing it, or exhibited drug-seeking behaviors. 

     Your story was not jumbled, indeed quite the opposite. Reading your story has given me a lot of hope. That you have a sense of calm, that you can take things minute by minute, knowing the worst of times will pass. You have many gems to share. Thank you for doing that here. 

 

[Catwoman73]

Hi @KateH! 

 

I have no idea if the LDN is helping.  It's a confusing, jumbled mess at the moment.  I started having these weird gagging sensations, along with inappropriate crying over the last two days.  The problem is I'm not sure which drug is causing the problem, since I have stupidly been taking both at the same time.  Live and learn, right?  I'm moving the LDN to a different time of day to see what happens.  Time will tell. 

 

In terms of my current taper, I tapered quite fast from 20 to 10mg, knowing that I had no trouble in this range in the past.  Or at least I don't think I did- my previous taper was done generally way too fast, so I'm not sure at this point exactly when the nasty symptoms are going to kick in.  I held at 15 mg for 3 months with absolutely no problem, then dropped to 10.  I would like to drop to 9mg on Wednesday, but I need to sort out whether it's the escitalopram or the naltrexone causing my current issues before doing anything.  These setbacks are frustrating, but it's important to make slow and careful decisions to try to avoid setbacks!

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you re: EMDR and IFS!  These have been absolutely life changing for me.  I still have a ways to go, but I'm very grateful for the progress I've made so far!

 

My only other supports are a handful of Facebook groups.  And of course my husband.  He's my greatest supporter.  I know I love him so, so much, but long-standing anhedonia makes it hard for me to really 'feel' it, if that makes sense.  The drugs have been masking so much for so long.  I'm hoping that the stars align, and I'm able to get off these drugs for good and forever, and hopefully learn to experience real emotions again.  Most days I'm super optimistic, but I'm struggling a bit today.  Tomorrow is another day, right?  This too shall pass...

 

How are you feeling today?  Getting some rest?  I can't imagine traveling during this withdrawal stuff.  My familiar, comfortable surroundings have been an absolute must!!!  Where else have you traveled so far?  I so want to see more of the world, but I think an international flight might just kill me right now lol!  Maybe someday!

[KateH]

13 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

it's important to make slow and careful decisions to try to avoid setbacks!

I learned the hard way that slow and careful is the key to getting through this! I hope that moving LDN to a different time makes a difference and you can sort out what's what. 

 

13 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you re: EMDR and IFS!  These have been absolutely life changing for me.  I still have a ways to go, but I'm very grateful for the progress I've made so far!

    I have been in therapy off and on for 40+ years and these two modalities help the most. Especially the IFS (not so easy to do EMDR on my own). I read a lot of IFS books, youtube videos, and practice IFS meditations daily. However with Gab withdrawal, the inner light has gone out and it is hard for me to access parts, other than the feeling sick part. Still, I am reminded to stay curious and compassionate, as much as possible. 

      That is an interesting term, anhedonia. I have always used the word depressed, but I have looked up the word and this seems more appropriate. I wonder what the difference is? I understand the "not feeling it" part. My husband is my lifesaver through this and yet I don't have love for him, myself, or anyone! The best I can do now is appreciate everything he has done for me and tell him that, frequently. In the meantime, I am acting as if...as if the love is there. I hope it returns someday. 

      I am getting rest today and always feel better when I have some deep sleep. I would prefer to be in my home but the way we travel, we stay places for 4-6 weeks and I can settle in fairly quickly. We left the US last July and have been to Portugal, Morroco, Jordan, Cyprus, Georgia, and now Turkey. We will go to Istanbul in a few weeks, one of my favorite cities. 

       Yes, all feelings come and go. Hope this is a better day for you! 

Kate

      

    

[Tweed9674]

Hi @KateH

 

How are things going for you? Are you seeing any improvements?

[KateH]

Hello Tweed9674,

    You are so kind to ask. I am not doing so well at the moment. Extreme weakness, fatigue, and it feels like someone turned off the lights inside, I am at the bottom of a deep, dark well, with no way out. I think this is dissociation, anhedonia, and deep depression. All three of these symptoms are everyday occurrences. The only relief is when I fall into a deep sleep, I then wake up alert and like "myself" for a short while until returning to these same symptoms, over and over. I tried going out with my husband today and felt overwhelmed. Stimulation of any kind is unsettling. Most days are spent at home, in bed, in a dark quiet room. But, I need to be out in the world, at least, every now and then. I reread your earlier post, it gave me hope when I first read it and it gives me hope now. My husband thinks I am making progress but it is a slow slog. I have lost myself. This is bringing up all sorts of grief. I am sorry to be so negative, you are one of the few people who ask how I am doing, and I feel I can be honest here. 

 

[Catwoman73]

Wow, you live a very exciting life!  I really hope I'm able to travel again someday.  I have to go to a wedding out of province in the summer, and because the logistics of airports etc are so difficult for me right now, I'm just dreading it.  Sad- it should be a fun trip, but it's going to be a lot, so I have anxiety instead of excitement. 

 

Anhedonia has always been a side effect of these drugs for me.  I wasn't always like this.  I used to feel things deeply- I was a highly sensitive child.  Which lead to anxiety in this world that can be cruel... which lead to me taking my first SSRI (Paxil) in my early 20s.  Paxil destroyed something in me, and I never got it back.  I understand now that my poor brain has never had a real opportunity to heal, between my revolving door of drugs, and multiple traumatic experiences- some when I've been on the drugs, some when I've been off.  I believe the trauma changes your brain too, and likely was a major factor in my never learning to feel again.  I'm working hard now to learn to feel and cope with big emotions- something I should have learned as a child, but never did.  If I am able to develop some strategies, I think I can avoid ever taking these drugs again. 

 

I'm so glad you're getting some sleep.  Sleep heals!  How are the symptoms you originally described?  Any changes?

[KateH]

23 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

 I have to go to a wedding out of province in the summer, and because the logistics of airports etc are so difficult for me right now, I'm just dreading it.

Are you traveling alone or with a companion? I am fortunate that my husband is a very confident traveler and I defer to him to make decisions and problem solve. This is offloading the whole problem onto him but he does not seem to mind. If I were traveling solo, I couldn't make it work...Just too stressful. 

 

23 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

I was a highly sensitive child.  Which lead to anxiety in this world that can be cruel... which lead to me taking my first SSRI (Paxil) in my early 20s

I, too, was a highly sensitive child. I was started on Prozac in my mid-twenties. Still on it. Will get to that after the Gabapentin and Bupropion... I was severely depressed at the time and remember starting to feel better while on it, at least I was functional. Before that, I could not work in my profession (nursing) and worked on an assembly line making water pics. I have been on it for so long, I have no memory of what I was like before, other than depressed and anxious all the time. 

 

23 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

I believe the trauma changes your brain too, and likely was a major factor in my never learning to feel again.

     Trauma in my early teens changed my whole personality. I went from being a happy kid to feeling depressed, and anxious and started a lifetime of running from feelings, first with drugs and alcohol then a serious eating disorder. A few other addictions along the way, as well. I have been two distinct, different people ... all separated by several traumatic events in my teens. 

 

23 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

 I'm working hard now to learn to feel and cope with big emotions- something I should have learned as a child, but never did.  If I am able to develop some strategies, I think I can avoid ever taking these drugs again. 

   You sound like you are developing strategies with the support of your therapist, family, and friends. I never had strategies because I did not have role models in my family that showed me how to get through tough times. Our family rules were "don't talk, don't trust, don't feel". I fight all three of those messages every single day, still. The more permission I give myself to have all my feelings, talk about them, and trust one other human being, the better off I am. 

    Symptoms are improving, very slowly. Still incredibly exhausted. I went out today for several hours and have been on the couch, feeling exhausted since. Only 7 pm and I am heading to bed! So nice to be able to talk with you. I hope you are having a good day. 

[Tweed9674]

23 hours ago, KateH said:

Hello Tweed9674,

    You are so kind to ask. I am not doing so well at the moment. Extreme weakness, fatigue, and it feels like someone turned off the lights inside, I am at the bottom of a deep, dark well, with no way out. I think this is dissociation, anhedonia, and deep depression. All three of these symptoms are everyday occurrences. The only relief is when I fall into a deep sleep, I then wake up alert and like "myself" for a short while until returning to these same symptoms, over and over. I tried going out with my husband today and felt overwhelmed. Stimulation of any kind is unsettling. Most days are spent at home, in bed, in a dark quiet room. But, I need to be out in the world, at least, every now and then. I reread your earlier post, it gave me hope when I first read it and it gives me hope now. My husband thinks I am making progress but it is a slow slog. I have lost myself. This is bringing up all sorts of grief. I am sorry to be so negative, you are one of the few people who ask how I am doing, and I feel I can be honest here. 

 

 

I'm so sorry you are feeling this down.

 

It's good that you can take time to recover and have someone with you along the way despite being so far from home.

 

I also think that it's good that you tried going out even if you ended up feeling overwhelmed.

Going slow, finding your limit and pushing an inch at a time without causing more trauma is hard, but I think it's a good way to fight back.

 

Keep fighting 💪

[KateH]

22 hours ago, Tweed9674 said:

Going slow, finding your limit and pushing an inch at a time without causing more trauma is hard, but I think it's a good way to fight back.

Good counsel. A better day today. Yes, keep fighting. Thanks.

[Catwoman73]

On 4/30/2024 at 12:04 PM, KateH said:

Are you traveling alone or with a companion? I am fortunate that my husband is a very confident traveler and I defer to him to make decisions and problem solve. This is offloading the whole problem onto him but he does not seem to mind. If I were traveling solo, I couldn't make it work...Just too stressful. 

I am traveling this summer with both my husband and my daughter.  Unfortunately, they both have quite severe ADHD, so that makes me the organizer of all the things lol.  I think good planning will be key here.  We did decide to fly out of a smaller airport rather than flying out of Pearson in Toronto.  I think that will help with the overstimulation that inevitably comes with big, crowded places. 

 

On 4/30/2024 at 12:04 PM, KateH said:

I, too, was a highly sensitive child. I was started on Prozac in my mid-twenties. Still on it. Will get to that after the Gabapentin and Bupropion... I was severely depressed at the time and remember starting to feel better while on it, at least I was functional. Before that, I could not work in my profession (nursing) and worked on an assembly line making water pics. I have been on it for so long, I have no memory of what I was like before, other than depressed and anxious all the time. 

I have no idea who I am without the drugs.  I did have a good long break from them before and after my daughter was born, but that time was filled with a lot of trauma, and what I now recognize to be protracted withdrawal.  Life has settled down now, and I am soooo ready to figure out who I am!  

 

I'm actually questioning if I was ever really in need of this medication in the first place.  I was 'depressed' I suppose, but I had just broken up with my first really serious boyfriend when I took my first dose of Paxil.  In a 10 minute appointment, they offered me this 'safe' drug... no discussion of other things that might help, no plan to follow up with me.  I think if I had just been given some time, and been referred to a good therapist, I probably could have ridden it out without the meds.  It helped me by numbing me.  I am now questioning if that was really 'helping me' at all!  Crazy to think how much my life changed that day!!!

On 4/30/2024 at 12:04 PM, KateH said:

I never had strategies because I did not have role models in my family that showed me how to get through tough times. Our family rules were "don't talk, don't trust, don't feel". I fight all three of those messages every single day, still. 

 

Same- I grew up in a military family.  Very practical and tough.  I remember being told that if there's no blood, there shouldn't be tears.  I got the message that I shouldn't trust people with my feelings, and hid EVERYTHING until the last couple of years.  I'm so lucky I have a husband who seems to love me even more now that he knows how much I've been burying.  But it's still hard for me to open up... those early tapes just keep playing in my head- I'm learning healthier ways to cope with that, but I don't know that those tapes will ever stop playing!

 

On 4/30/2024 at 12:04 PM, KateH said:

    Symptoms are improving, very slowly. Still incredibly exhausted. I went out today for several hours and have been on the couch, feeling exhausted since. Only 7 pm and I am heading to bed! So nice to be able to talk with you. I hope you are having a good day. 

It has to be hard being on such an amazing adventure, and dealing with all of this.  I'm glad you're able to get out a little bit- what a shame it would be to travel all that way and be stuck in your room all the time!  Bed at 7pm is totally fine if it allows you to live a little bit.  I hope there are better days ahead for you!

[KateH]

On 5/1/2024 at 7:41 PM, Catwoman73 said:

I think good planning will be key here.

Good planning is the key. So glad you can fly out of a smaller airport. That makes a huge difference. I have used airport chapels to hang out in, there is less sensory stimulation, and it provides a quiet reprieve from all the hustle and bustle. Many airports and airlines are becoming more neuro-divergent aware and addressing the needs of this population. Perhaps checking the airlines and airports for accommodations in this area might be helpful. 

 

On 5/1/2024 at 7:41 PM, Catwoman73 said:

I think if I had just been given some time, and been referred to a good therapist, I probably could have ridden it out without the meds.

    Same here. I was started on antidepressants in my mid-twenties (1980's) and did not find a decent therapist for years. And, I have cycled through many over the years since! All were helpful, but the most progress was made with EMDR, TA, and IFS. 

On 5/1/2024 at 7:41 PM, Catwoman73 said:

I have a husband who seems to love me even more now that he knows how much I've been burying

    How beautiful. You are so fortunate to have such a supportive, loving husband. Priceless. 

    Like you, I don't think the tapes of my troubled upbringing will ever go away. It seems important for me, though, to not act on those dysfunctional messages. As much as I can, one day at a time. In IFS, courage is a Self-trait that I call on frequently to help me do things differently, despite the fear. 

 

 

On 5/1/2024 at 7:41 PM, Catwoman73 said:

t has to be hard being on such an amazing adventure, and dealing with all of this.

    Yes, it has been hard, being bed-bound most days. I am grieving the loss of my health, ability to travel and be curious about the world, engage with the diversity of this amazing world. Connecting to, being present to, and holding a compassionate place for all parts of me has helped.  I listen to A Canadian therapist, Derek Scott, on YouTube. he has helped me traverse the grieving process using IFS. It has been a very healing experience. 

      I wish you the best with your slow taper. You have a strong base of support and inner strength, that will guide you through the process, one day at a time. 

      

[Catwoman73]

Hi @KateH- just checking in on you!  Hope you're hanging in there!