cmusic: A long history and finally saying enough

[cmusic]

That is - a quarter of the 25 mg tablets. Isn't that what you recommended?

[Altostrata]

A quarter would be 6.25mg -- you started with 12.5mg?

 

Correct, hypersensitive could mean setting off an allergic reaction.

 

This is why it's important to make changes in only one drug (or supplement) at once, so you know what's causing what.

 

Try not to make impetuous jumps on anything.

[cmusic]

Yes 12.5 because I told my psychiatrist I would start there before I came here. Will go up by quarter pill.

 

My life has degraded to literally nothing but extreme depression pain and fear. Every thought of every move triggers panic and waves of crying. I can't get any relief unless I lie in a completely quiet room until I'm practically near a sleep state. Any stimulus at all, a thought about my family, a sound, sends shooting through my whole system. This is a horrible way to exist.

[Altostrata]

You are very hypersensitive now. You need to reduce stimulation for the time being. This will pass, be patient.

[cmusic]

I was reading about neuroinflammation and how a person can go into an inflammatory state for a number of reasons. And that there are correlations between cytokines and depression / panic.

 

I seem to have a pattern where I get much worse psych symptoms when my immune system is activated. I also had several inflammatory conditions pop up right around tr time in 2010 when all this panic started.

 

Is it possible that antidepressants control neuroinflammation and that somehow this process stops working? Does a person go into a highly inflammatory state when coming off? Does this reverse over time?

[cmusic]

And another question - is the autonomic dis regulation we discuss on these forums the same thing as the 'kindling' effect spoken of by psychiatrists? Is that why Lamictal gets bounced around both here and by psychiatrists?

[Altostrata]

There is a lot of inconclusive discussion about antidepressants and inflammation. Google and ye shall find.

 

Yes, "kindling" is an autonomic reaction. Lamotrigine (Lamictal) is a seizure drug that makes the autonomic nervous system less reactive.

[lexicon]

Cmusic, I am sorry you are suffering ..

I hope that symptoms will improve for you ..We just have to keep walking ..

I was just reading about neutoinflammation on your thread ....Can you please post a link it you have it ..?

Wishing you wellness, and peacefulness ..

Lexicon

[cmusic]

Here are a couple.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19319993/

 

http://www.cytokines-and-depression.com/

 

I fear there is little right now in terms of treatment approaches around this. It's just one more unknown. I have no idea if pulling Prozac back in 2010 did anything to set this off in me, nor if there is any way to calm it down.

[lexicon]

Sorry, I seem to have posted twice. ..!! I did not mean to clutter your thread cmusic ..

Thank you, I am looking forward to reading the links ..

Take care, and stay strong ..You are in my prayers .. Lexicon

[cmusic]

I had horrific dreams last night full of panic and bad images of bad things. I couldn't get thoughts out of my head all day. It was possibly the darkest place I've ever been in my mind. I'm not sure I should share specifics but I have been thinking about inpatient care at a psychiatric hospital all day. I am fearful that I will need to go in that direction and resign myself to a life of drugs and treatments.

 

I had a better afternoon yesterday too. The morning was awful but by the afternoonninwas feeling ok. Can you call four hours of feeling just ok a window? I was still pretty anxious but nothing like the persistent pain I typically feel. But then went to bed and its almost like I rebounded from it in my dreams.

 

I wish there was an inpatient facility that didn't focus on drugs. One that could work with you on taking steps to try and live again. But this is so raw and physical that I'm not sure I could do anything but cry all day anyway.

[wantrelief]

I am so sorry you are having such a hard time, cmusic. I have read through your postings and have to tell you how brave you are. It sounds like you have been through so much, not only recently but over the last few years. I really admire how much you are doing to take care of yourself, as much as you can as you go through this. I too am trying hard to keep working through this and as hard as that is, I related to what you said about the weekends almost being worse - I feel like then I have more time to feel all of these awful feelings going on with me physically and mentally. I have had many dark thoughts during my various withdrawal episodes and they are so frightening; I never experienced anything like it prior to AD use. Withdrawal just seems to take everything inside of us an magnify it x 1000. I know what you mean about wishing there was a safe place we could go to that would not just throw more medications at us. I think it is a good sign that you did have even a few hours of feeling well, or at least better than you have been - I sure hope you get to experience more and more times like that in the near future. Hang in there, cmusic.

[Rhiannon]

cmusic, I just read through your whole thread from beginning to now. Here are the thoughts that jump out at me:

 

I know you're suffering HORRIFICALLY. I've been there. But if there's any way you can hold off trying to fix things with another psych med, I would recommend it. The pattern I'm seeing is that you try something, it doesn't work, you quit, you get worse, you try something else...

 

The problem with this approach is that these meds don't just work like aspirin--make you feel better, and then go away. They actually alter your nervous system. New cells grow, genes are turned on and off, receptors put in and removed. None of this happens fast. Every time you change the chemical milieu in your brain it has to stop what it was doing and try to do something else. I see this a lot and I think after a point there's just so much chaos in there, any new drug you throw at it is just going to make things worse.

 

(Imagine a busy freeway, then all of a sudden half the exits disappear and new ones appear--what would happen to the traffic. And as the traffic is finally adjusting, then all of a sudden the new ones disappear and some of the old ones come back and some other ones only come back halfway, etc... Over and over. Imagine what would happen to the traffic. And that's just traffic, which is about a billion times less complex than the chemistry of your brain.)

 

It looks to me like you may have reached that point. I recommend being very, very cautious about adding or removing meds for a while, like for the next six months at least. I fear that you may be prolonging your suffering by the very means you are using to try to stop it.

 

In particular a couple of things: Starting then stopping then restarting Lamictal. Lamictal is really powerful; it works on a type of receptor that's involved in EVERYthing in your body, and I mean EVERYthing. So you may not have felt that it was actually helping, but I have no doubt that stopping it has aggravated your symptoms. And the going on and off and on just induces even more chaos. Right now the biochemical chaos is what's making you so miserable. You don't need to be aggravating it.

 

And benzos. Watch out for those puppies. They can actually make your anxiety a lot worse, especially now that you're in such acute withdrawal and so sensitized to everything already.

 

If there is ANY way you can just hold still, take care of yourself, maybe get a short medical leave from your job, and focus on minimizing stimulation and irritation and stress...I really think at this point there is just No Magic Bullet Left for you. I could be wrong, but I've seen this situation so many times I doubt I am. If you can just give TIME a chance, that's really what you need. At this point I would expect you to have some improvement in six months to a year, but the whole thing is certainly going to take longer than you would like.

 

I hope something in here helps. I know it doesn't sound hopeful, but the truth is, if you can take care of yourself, you WILL get better. I've seen many people in as bad shape as you are in now, recover. It doesn't happen quickly. You really need to wrap your mind around giving it the time it requires.

[Altostrata]

cmusic, the horrific thoughts and images are a product of the neurological dysfunction. Please try to separate your symptoms from your self.

 

This is perhaps the most valuable lesson of this terrible hell: You are not your symptoms.

 

What's more, you are strong and you can manage them. As you can see, such symptoms come and go. Read this Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms. Many people have similar symptom patterns and have utilized one or another of these techniques to get through this stage.

[FeelingAlone]

Hello Cmusic, you haven't posted in a week and wanted to see how you are doing...You are very strong and brave, just keep hanging in there! You will get better, I just believe in my heart you will!!!

[cmusic]

So my life has basically been falling apart. Not working anymore and stress on family has been unbearable. I decided to try and reinstate Prozac at 10mg. That was 10 days ago.

 

Prior to the reinstatement I was getting this thing where the PTSD / panic was so bad I couldn't fall asleep. As I began to doze I would wake with emotional terror. Like body could not let down hyper vigilance.

 

Now on the Prozac I literally cannot relax ever. Pacing and jumping out of skin. The first night I took it I tried to sleep and had five panic attacks in a row. Now over the last few nights I've developed insomnia and can't get more than a few hours sleep. And I'm beginning to fear going to sleep.

 

I am trying to find a new PDoc. Might be going back to an old psychopharm. But he's a bit aggressive. If he wants me on something other than Prozac do I just make the switch or do I now need to taper after 10 days back on? Or should I try to stick it out and hope these symptoms calm down?

 

This is torture. I don't know how else to describe it. No relief anywhere. Benzos don't even help.

[Altostrata]

You have classic withdrawal syndrome.

 

That dosage of Prozac is far too high. Obviously, it is too activating. If I were you, I would make a liquid and take only 2mg. See instructions http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/759-tips-for-tapering-off-prozac-fluoxetine/

[cmusic]

The thing is I need some relief from the emotional symptoms. Not perfect but something to stabilize. I am incapacitated from panic and ruminating about the situation incessantly. I need to be stabilized. If I lower the dose too much I won't get any relief which I need right now. Do you think there's any chance my body will get used to this and it will calm down? If the point of reinstatement is to try and get some level of relief I need to do it. It's that or go on fill doses of new drugs as per psychiatry and be back to square one. Because I can't keep going like this.

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry, I believe your reasoning is incorrect. More is not better when it comes to neuroactive drugs. You cannot clobber "depression" while throwing the rest of the body into neuro chaos.

 

It's possible if you take a very small amount, it will help all your symptoms. Or, you may find Prozac is not for you at all.

[FeelingAlone]

Hello Cmusic, you haven't posted in weeks and wanted to check in and see how you are doing....Hopefully you're starting to see some improvements.

[wantrelief]

I have been thinking about you too and wondering how you are doing.  I hope you are ok and feeling better from your last post.  I have experienced the symptoms you were describing and it is sheer hell - I am really hoping things are better for you.  Please let us know when you get a chance.

[cmusic]

Hi everyone,

 

Things were not getting better and I was in a place of unimaginable pain and fear. I had to switch doctors which was a difficult process, but I found one that is willing to be conservative with meds. I have been trying to stabilize, as the place I was in was literally destroying my family and my life. As it is I am not working and the clock is ticking on how long I can stay out.

 

I am currently on 5mg of Prozac and 3.75 of Remeron and 6.25 Lamictal. Trying to get off the Lamictal altogether to simplify. Have been going down a quarter a pill a week. Even the low dose of Remeron has made me extremely fatigued, but I am eating again and the panic has gone from a 10 to a 7. But it's far from relief and is still very difficult to operate.

 

I wish improvement was happening without drugs but honestly I think the trauma of the experience had (and to a degree continues to have) me in such a state of terror that I would have been in serious trouble. So stabilization had to become the immediate goal, with resuming a taper a future goal.

 

The other thing I'm getting now is severe burning sensations in the skin on my arms, shoulders, and hands. This seems to be worse now that the meds are back in the picture but was starting to appear when I was on just Lamictal a few months ago. But now every time I have panic I get these waves of burning. I thought it was nerve damage but seems to be correlated to panic attacks so may be psychosomatic? Either way I have no idea.

 

Well that's where I am. Sorry I haven't posted but I'm trying to put some distance between the 'situation' and my thinking in the moment. I have become trapped in thinking about nothing but this issue to the point where I couldn't think about anything else. It's been hard to focus externally but I'm trying to as much as I can.

 

Hope everyone is doing ok.

[Meimeiquest]

Sounds like you are fighting really hard! I can't say how sorry I am for all you and your family are going through. My husband has just started telling me more about how he felt, how long HE stayed in bed when I did whatever I did back in 2006. But I am able to work, we have a strong marriage, and our girls are doing well enough. Although it didn't seem possible, life has gone on, and I trust it will for you all too. Give your wife a squeeze from SA! Are you still doing CBT? I made an appointment but in the end we couldn't afford it. Best, Meimei

[wantrelief]

Hi everyone,Things were not getting better and I was in a place of unimaginable pain and fear. I had to switch doctors which was a difficult process, but I found one that is willing to be conservative with meds. I have been trying to stabilize, as the place I was in was literally destroying my family and my life. As it is I am not working and the clock is ticking on how long I can stay out.I am currently on 5mg of Prozac and 3.75 of Remeron and 6.25 Lamictal. Trying to get off the Lamictal altogether to simplify. Have been going down a quarter a pill a week. Even the low dose of Remeron has made me extremely fatigued, but I am eating again and the panic has gone from a 10 to a 7. But it's far from relief and is still very difficult to operate.I wish improvement was happening without drugs but honestly I think the trauma of the experience had (and to a degree continues to have) me in such a state of terror that I would have been in serious trouble. So stabilization had to become the immediate goal, with resuming a taper a future goal.The other thing I'm getting now is severe burning sensations in the skin on my arms, shoulders, and hands. This seems to be worse now that the meds are back in the picture but was starting to appear when I was on just Lamictal a few months ago. But now every time I have panic I get these waves of burning. I thought it was nerve damage but seems to be correlated to panic attacks so may be psychosomatic? Either way I have no idea.Well that's where I am. Sorry I haven't posted but I'm trying to put some distance between the 'situation' and my thinking in the moment. I have become trapped in thinking about nothing but this issue to the point where I couldn't think about anything else. It's been hard to focus externally but I'm trying to as much as I can.Hope everyone is doing ok.

 

I am glad you wrote, cmusic.  I really feel for you and am so sorry for all you've been through.  I am glad you have had some change for the better in terms of appetite and at least a reduction in the panic - that is good news! Does your doctor have any ideas about what might be causing the burning?  It sounds like you feel better about this doctor - I am glad you found someone who is more gentle in terms of their approach to medication.  I totally understand the feelings about turning to medication but when you are feeling as badly as you were, you have to do what you have to do.  Hang in there - we are all rooting for you!  

[cmusic]

Hi everyone,

 

I wanted to post an update and ask a question. I have been getting this burning sensation all over my body. I believe it was there in some capacity before I went back on meds a month ago but they have gotten steadily worse since. It started with just my forearms but has become my hands, neck, back, and face. Feels like severe sunburn or having a fever but no fever. Breath feels hot and hands super sensitive.

 

It gets worse, seems to be rising, when I get panic or stress. Doc thinks it's my anxiety manifesting and is trying to get me to not be so worried about the physical symptoms of anxiety. But I am in hell with this - literally - to the point where I'm considering benzos to end the pain.

 

I can't determine if this is a natural progression of withdrawal or the Prozac / Remeron I'm back on causing me to be sensitized. Either way its horrible and a constant reminder of something being wrong with me - which prevents me from trying to think about other things and look outward. The sun also seems to make it worse - I'm completely intolerant of sun now. I have also gotten off Lamictal as of last week. Was on 6.25, going down by a quarter of a 25 pill every few weeks.

 

I have read some stories about people with similar symptoms during benzo withdrawal but wasn't sure about antidepressants. I don't want to pull any more meds abruptly - but I may have to if this doesn't calm down. And then I'm faced with more withdrawal.

 

It could be the Prozac, the Remeron, both, withdrawal from the original situation, or even lowering Lamictal and getting off that.

 

Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.

[wantrelief]

Hi cmusic, 

 

I am so sorry to hear about the pain you are having.  I wish I could answer your question.  I think it is hard to know if it is from past AD withdrawal issues or an adverse reaction to one of the meds you restarted. You withdrew from Prozac and then restarted it?  Maybe it was there as a part of the withdrawal from Prozac initially (as you mention it was there in a lesser way after you discontinued Prozac) and now is a "kindling" kind of effect of restarting Prozac. I just want you to know how very much I empathize with pain issues as I dealing with that too, albeit, head related.  I am sure others will chime in with their ideas but wanted you to know that I am thinking about you.  

[Meimeiquest]

I am just flying through, so haven't looked back, but I think your skin thing started quite a while back....you have a post on it that might help you locate what it came before and after. The only thing I can think of that hasn't already been brought up, and maybe it has been, is histamine. Gia has found some help with it...there is info in the symptoms forum and at beyondmeds.com. Best, Meimei

[FeelingAlone]

Hi Cmusic, I too had the burning sensation on my arms. It also was on my face, eyes, mouth, and down my throat. I got it after my I tried to reinstate my Celexa after I cold turkeyed it. My doc attributed it to my body being sensitized to the Celexa and it being an allergic reaction. I stopped the Celexa due to the sensation and it went away after a couple days. I don't recommend stopping your meds abrubtly cause withdrawals suck. I just wanted to let you know that I had the same symptoms as you and you might be sensitized to the meds.

[cmusic]

Thanks. Do you recall if the burning was correlated with an increase in stress / anxiety? For me it rises like heat when I start to feel anxiety but also happens when I work out or other types of stress. Because it does correlate with anxiety my doctor thinks it's simply a manifestation of the anxiety. I don't know - some of it may - but it feels horrific and unnatural and if it is my body finally reacting to the buildup of these drugs again I need to address it. I can't live with it but I can't pull stuff again so might have to ask to switch or something. Don't know. Another stuck situation courtesy of this nightmare.

[FeelingAlone]

During that time, I was in a constant state of panic/anxiety so I can't exactly say if it increased with stress or not. I do know that the reinstatement of Celexa caused it because within days of stopping it, the sensation went away and never returned. Other than the burning, are you beginning to stabilize or see improvement?

[cmusic]

I got off the Remeron - was only on 3.75 mg for a month. Having a little sleeplessness but think ill be able to get through it. Wanted to get off before it became an issue - the last thing I needed was dependence on another drug.

 

I am still getting burning and sensitivity in the palms of my hands, feet, forearms, neck, and face. I can't be completely sure it's the Prozac but it seems to be.

 

But if I need to get off again am I now stuck with enduring this hell through a slow taper? I can't just get off Prozac again - but if its doing something like causing neuropathy I am scared to stay on it (not to mention the physical pain).

 

I wonder if getting off for a few days in a row would give me an indication as to whether its causing this. I know Prozac stays in your system a while but maybe it would lessen or something. I don't know. Pretty hard to try and get better when things like this keep setting you back.

[Altostrata]

Side effects generally decrease as you decrease dosage. If those are Prozac side effects, they should decrease as you systematically taper.

 

I would not just go off to see what happens.

[cmusic]

Hey everyone,

 

Writing because I need a little hope. I'm struggling intensely. Every day is severe depression, neuro fear and anxiety, and physical / neurological pain. I am trying to holds life together but it is horribly tough.

 

I am on 5mg of Prozac. I told myself after I reinstated I would try to stabilize. But is it possible for a person to not stabilize? I went off Effexor too and may be just so screwed up that only time will help. In that case should I leave the Prozac knowing it may be aggravating things? How long should I wait before I resign to not being able to stabilize and tapering off?

 

I'm so afraid that I won't get better. I'm terrified for my family. It's been a long time. If I just leave the 5mg Prozac will I eventually heal while on it and then be able to taper?

 

Any thoughts or reassurance would be hugely helpful. I'm very hopeless right now.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

We ALL heal eventually. No set time limits. Slow and steady tapering with holds when withdrawal symptoms kick in seem to be what works the best. Do a search on this board for the 'slowest turtle in Turtlesville' (its Rhi) for example.

 

Perhaps you might ease up on the reading a bit? You might be scaring yourself unnecessarily while your body is trying to do the best it can. The body has it's own wisdom and ALWAYS wants to heal. Yours included.

[Meimeiquest]

This may or may not be encouraging... Are you familiar with GiaK on this forum? She has the website beyondmeds.com. She found and recommended a book on chronic fatigue syndrome, believing the author's hypothesis has a lot of correlation with prolonged AD withdrawal. It is about $10 for the Kindle version on Amazon. You can see Gia's notes in the book section of this forum. Best, Meimei

[Narcissus]

 

 

But is it possible for a person to not stabilize? How long should I wait before I resign to not being able to stabilize and tapering off? 

 

These are the sorts of questions I find myself asking when things get tough.  No, I don't think it's possible for a person not to stabilize provided they're not constantly going on and off drugs.  As for how long to wait, however long it takes before you feel able to taper.  I've been waiting 8 months and I imagine I'll be waiting another 6 or so at least.  I got a little antsy about two months ago so I tried a small cut, and after that kicked me in the *ss I happily returned to waiting again.  If you're really feeling anxious you might try making a small cut yourself and seeing how it goes, then you'll know what you want to do.  It might make you suffer for a bit, but it might be worth it if it helps alleviate the anxiety and uncertainty you're feeling at the moment.  What wonderful choices withdrawal faces us with!