Laineyk: back for another shot of antidepressant freedom

[laineyk]

Hi quick backgraound as best as I can , I was put on zoloft 12 years ago. I went on and off it in the 1st 6 years because I kept believeing I didnt need it after several months at a time. Then I bought a clue a decided to just stay on it, so for last 6 years have been on it. But because I felt so well I started skipping every other day for at least a year or so....I started having anxiety feelings creeping up and crying spells (was always for anxiety only) so Dr said to take the 50mgs everyday...did that for 3 weeks

 

then went to 100mgs for 4 weeks by this time I was using klonopin 2xs a day to help with the anxiety

then I increased to 125mg for a week

150mg for a week

200 mg for 4 weeks

 

I was feeling better by 100 mgs but because I still was needing the klonopin I thought that the zoloft had simply pooped out. STUPID!!!!!!

 

at 150mg I was taking .25mgs once or twice a day. anyways I decided to come off the zoloft and maybe try just klonopin alone

 

went from 200mg to zero in two months...Sept & Oct I became a mess.....crying constantly, anxiety getting worse etc.

 

Dr tried putting me on Lexapro and I felt sicker so thats when we atrted the zoloft reinstatment.

 

I was on 25mg for 4 weeks, then 50mgs for a week, 75mgs for a week and started to go to 100mg for 2 days when my PA told me to fast...go back to 50mg for 4 weeks

 

 

so last week I see a new psychiatrist and he says "NO, you need to increase quickly every week increase til you get to 150mg

 

my question is if 50 mg was what I have always used & was always stable on...why do I need 150mgs now? with all this going back up & down I now take .5mg klonopin am .25mg afternoon .5mgs bedtime

 

the morning dose of klonopin doesnt touch my morning anxiety...my hands shake & akathasia is soooooo bad. stomach upset...list goes on

 

I need to here from someone with a little more knowledge what I should do. Should I listen to the psychiatric PA and stay on each dose longer or do I increase rapidly?

 

Thank you and God bless you if you actually took the time to read all this....PLEASE I AM DESPERATE FOR RELIEF..I havent worked since Dec. because of all this

Edited February 10, 2013 by Karma
Added member name to introduction

[compsports]

Hi quick backgraound as best as I can , I was put on zoloft 12 years ago. I went on and off it in the 1st 6 years because I kept believeing I didnt need it after several months at a time. Then I bought a clue a decided to just stay on it, so for last 6 years have been on it. But because I felt so well I started skipping every other day for at least a year or so....I started having anxiety feelings creeping up and crying spells (was always for anxiety only) so Dr said to take the 50mgs everyday...did that for 3 weeks

 

then went to 100mgs for 4 weeks by this time I was using klonopin 2xs a day to help with the anxiety

then I increased to 125mg for a week

150mg for a week

200 mg for 4 weeks

 

I was feeling better by 100 mgs but because I still was needing the klonopin I thought that the zoloft had simply pooped out. STUPID!!!!!!

 

at 150mg I was taking .25mgs once or twice a day. anyways I decided to come off the zoloft and maybe try just klonopin alone

 

went from 200mg to zero in two months...Sept & Oct I became a mess.....crying constantly, anxiety getting worse etc.

 

Dr tried putting me on Lexapro and I felt sicker so thats when we atrted the zoloft reinstatment.

 

I was on 25mg for 4 weeks, then 50mgs for a week, 75mgs for a week and started to go to 100mg for 2 days when my PA told me to fast...go back to 50mg for 4 weeks

 

 

so last week I see a new psychiatrist and he says "NO, you need to increase quickly every week increase til you get to 150mg

 

my question is if 50 mg was what I have always used & was always stable on...why do I need 150mgs now? with all this going back up & down I now take .5mg klonopin am .25mg afternoon .5mgs bedtime

 

the morning dose of klonopin doesnt touch my morning anxiety...my hands shake & akathasia is soooooo bad. stomach upset...list goes on

 

I need to here from someone with a little more knowledge what I should do. Should I listen to the psychiatric PA and stay on each dose longer or do I increase rapidly?

 

Thank you and God bless you if you actually took the time to read all this....PLEASE I AM DESPERATE FOR RELIEF..I havent worked since Dec. because of all this

 

Hi Laney,

 

Welcome.

 

I probably should wait for more experienced folks to respond to your post but in a nutshell, you feel lousy because your body is in chaos from way too many med changes. Just to give you an idea of what I am talking about, we recommend that people taper their drugs 10% of current dose every 4 to 6 weeks. And in looking at your history, I start feeling sick and I am not even the one who is experiencing it.

 

If you want to get off the meds, in my opinion, you should hold at 50mgs for several weeks so you can stabilize and give your body relief from all the med changes. I would then start tapering at the 10% reduction rate we recommend which can be addressed at that point.

 

Unfortunately, it sounds like you have been the victim of some very bad advice as most psychiatrists are clueless about tapering. It is time for you to get stable on 50mg and go from there.

 

Hopefully, once you get stable, you'll feel alot better. That should also improve your anxiety that you feel the Klonopin doesn't touch which I wouldn't even consider tapering until you are off of the Zoloft.

 

Unfortunately, you're going to have to be patient and give your body a chance to stabilize which is easier said than done. By the way, have you seen our list of doctors who help with tapers?

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/

 

If one is your area, it would be worth it contact this person. Otherwise, patience my friend.

 

CS

[Karma]

Hi Laineyk

 

Welcome to the forum. I'm inclined to think that your PA has better advice than the new Psych doc. Doctors do not understand withdrawal and tend to attempt to treat emerging withdrawal symptoms as if they are the original condition. Your central nervous system has been battered by all of the changing medication dosages and now it is sensitized. Too much med is going to make you feel as bad as not enough med. If I were you I would not increase the medication rapidly and I would not target 150 mg, but rather would stay with a dose where I felt stable.

 

It appears that you were able to feel stable at 50 mg. How are you feeling now at 50 mg? What are your current symptoms?

 

When you get a chance please include your drug history in your signature: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/ As you post to this thread with progress and questions your signature will help us remember your particular situation.

 

Here is some information on tapering off of Zoloft: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1441-tips-for-tapering-off-zoloft-sertraline/

 

Right now you need to stable on a dose of Zoloft and give your CNS an chance to settle down. Then you can consider a slow taper off of the medication.

 

Karma

[SaveMooses]

Hi Lainey! I am so sorry to hear about the bad advice you have been given. You go into the doctor's office desperate for help and they change and change and change your medication without complete understanding of how the medication actually works. Keep hanging on and keep hanging in there. Listen to the people on this forum. They helped me get to the other side and I can attest that there IS another side! :-) Thinking about you and ending prayers!

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Lainey.

 

I can't improve on any of the suggestions in the posts above.

 

I agree, get stable on one dose -- do not ever skip doses -- and consider slowly tapering from that dose.

 

It seems to me your psychiatrist has mistaken withdrawal symptoms for some kind of psychiatric disorder. This is common.

[laineyk]

so you all think I should try staying on 50mgs for another couple weeks ?

[Altostrata]

Since you've been bouncing around so much, you might plan on a couple of months.

 

If your nervous system doesn't settle down with a consistent 50mg dose, you may need more to reduce the withdrawal symptoms.

[laineyk]

I really think I need to find a brand new psychiatrist and start a fresh with someone new. This psychiatrist is the head of the place I go to. He has about 4 psych PA's under him. So my PA had been consulting with him all along (according to him) but they seem not to remember much of my hx everytime I go in.

 

so if I had been stable on 50mgs before I started skipping doses (oh and I am in the USA, my husband two months before my crash ordered a script from Canada) you think thats where I need to stay until I start to feel well again? as you see I had been on that dose for 6 years.

 

I do know that each time I increase I feel sicker.

 

I basically have become a prisoner of all this. I barely leave my home or my room for that matter. My kids are grown and on thier own, husband is trying his very best to be patient but its so hard on him...he says he wants his wife back.

 

he has tried me on all sorts of supplements, now believes I need my mercury fillings removed (whole mouthful 10 of them) as IF!!!!! I could go through that right now...not!!!

but thats all he does is research on the internet all these differant vitamins, minerals...nothing helps!!!!!

 

I have been on 75mgs for a week tomorrow.....who thinks I should drop back to 50?

[Brandy]

Welcome, Lainey,

 

I had all my mercury fillings replaced before I went off paxil, and was very glad I had it done before w/d! Although I didn't notice any problems from the removal (except the financial cost lol!), some people do. I was very, very fortunate that I had a brilliant dentist who not only was exceptionally scrupulous about taking every measure to prevent any mercury from the fillings being removed, but also was extremely careful about what substances he used for replacement fillings. (He even personally developed and supervised the manufacture of the new synthetic materials for fillings he used - even personally inspecting the labs' manufacturing practices and working with them, and choosing very carefully the most suitable replacement materials.) I came to him in horrible condition from reactions to the initial replacement fillings I'd gotten from another, supposedly "holistic" dentist who did what seemed to be the same precautions but it turned out he didn't know how to do them properly. This can be a big risk with many "holistic" or "naturopath" practitioners, believe me. The new dentist I went to who completed the work first had to remove every single trace of the new fillings - a slow and laborious process involving grinding down even deeper - before starting on the others, and enough of the first dentists' fillings had gotten into my system that it took me a full year to fully recover from the reaction. (I have an extremely sensitivie system with lifelong allergies.)

 

But I'd hate to think what would it would have been like if it had happened while I was in w/d. When I had my amalgam fillings replaced, I had to - my numerous (metal mouth!) that I'd had since soon after getting my permanent teeth long ago, were corroded and even starting to crack. They had to be replaced. But glad I got it done prior to w/d.

 

The symptoms of mercury toxicity are very similar to w/d symptoms, but the causes are different.

 

I also used and benefitted very much from certain nutritional supplements prior to w/d. But I soon realized once in w/d that my body responded very differently to them, and little by little I found I felt better once off the supplements I'd needed while on paxil.

 

There are a few supplements some people in w/d find helpful, and you can get guidance here about that. Your need for them and tolerance for them may change throughout your taper and recovery, however, so if you try them and they help, be open to the fact that you may have to revise what helps you at times during the recovery process from these drugs.

 

But no supplement will make w/d go away. Your body's own ability to recover will do that, and you need to avoid interfering with that by destabilizing it with too many changes too often, as others have pointed out re your dosing schedule.

 

Your husband is obviously trying very hard to help you, but he - and most naturopaths!!! - need to realize that similar symptoms with different causes do not call for the same solutions. So many people in w/d have had their recoveries set back by taking the advice of naturopaths who may be very helpful for other conditions, but like doctors, are almost always clueless about w/d.

 

Interesting that you said that each time you increase dose you feel sicker. That to me tells me that your body doesn't want the med, and that although you need to stabilize on a dose and then slowly taper, it should be on as low a dose as possible as long as it stabilizes your worst symptoms. Full recovery will take more time and a stabilizing dose won't necessarily make you feel "good as new" but at least won't make you feel worse like these increases.

 

Please give stabilizing at doses a try with all your meds. I don't think you'll find a new psychiatrist who will know any more than the others about w/d. What you can get from a doctor (doesn't have to be a psychiatrist) is to get the meds prescribed that you need to be on as you stabilize and then slowly taper. Other than that, they don't seem to have any understanding of the w/d process and usually operate on misinformation they are given by the pharmaceutical industry. (And when that fails, by wild guesses, it seems.)

 

I've seen it too long and too often that patients get worse from the "let's keep trying things til something works" mentality.

[Altostrata]

Lainey, you'll have to guess at the dosage on which you might stabilize. Could be 50mg is appropriate.

 

Whatever you do, be consistent, keep notes about the dosage, time of day you take it, and daily symptom patterns.

[peggy]

are you feeling any more stable after staying on 75mg for the week? you want to stabilise as quickly as possible and not change your dose around too much. I think if i was in your position i would go back to 50mg as that was the dose you spent the most time on - and stay there until stable without messing around any more. It might take a couple of months to stabilise. In the meantime i would be taking fish oil, magnesium and getting at least 1/2 hour good exercise everyday. Try to do some yoga or meditation as well.

[laineyk]

I actually have felt worse the last week being on 75mgs (if thats possible) I do exercise daily, take fish oil, magnesium, vit. D & Vit C

 

so staying on 50 mgs for a couple months????? when do you decide to increase then? how long do I wait before seeing a need to increase?

[Altostrata]

If you get stable -- meaning no withdrawal symptoms -- then you can start to decrease.

[laineyk]

I ask because of course I think its just anxiety & depression back. But honestly I had been fine for 6 years straight on 50mg zoloft.

 

my symptoms are horrendous & have gotten worse since trying to RI

 

1. major anxiety

2. depression (never had this before, lots of crying)

3 stomach issues

4.headaches daily always sometime in afternoon

5. DIZZY!!!! off balanced

6.neck & shoulder tension

7. eye twictches

8. sensitive to noise...if the dog barks suddenly I practically jump out of my skin

9. agoraphobic

10. can not concentrate, brain fog

11. dry eyes

12. akathasia

I'll stop there because I could keep going...but is this what its like for others? what can I do to become sane again? I am trying to RI and then will taper ever so slowly...but the RI is even killing me.

[Altostrata]

Skipping doses for a year could definitely induce severe withdrawal symptoms, which is what you have.

 

What kinds of symptoms is reinstating causing? What's gotten worse? Did it help at all?

[Jemima]

Lainey, I moved your most recent post here because it has to do with your personal journey through withdrawal. And yes, all of the above symptoms are very typical of withdrawal. Your symptoms in particular have been worsened by going on and off the drugs and rapid increases and decreases. Getting stable and reasonably comfortable is going to take some time.

 

It's best to avoid almost all supplements with the exception of high quality fish oil and magnesium. Many supplements that might be helpful for someone with ordinary symptoms are too stimulating for someone in withdrawal and only make things worse.

 

Welcome to the Forum. You'll find lots of solid information and friendly support here.

[laineyk]

so far with reinstating my anxiety has gotten off the charts & I have the trembling hands off & on again...everytime I increase my stomach gets bad.

 

I am just am between a rock and a hard place....so I have been on 75mgs for over a week now...should I just stay here, or increase to at least 100mgs (NO MORE THAN THAT) or go back down to 50mgs?

 

How long should I give each dose before I decide whether to increase or not?

 

like I said the psych PA said 4 weeks...psychiatrist said 1 week...ugh...if that be so then I should increase to 100 tomorrow

[Altostrata]

When do you take Zoloft and what is your daily symptom pattern?

 

I would not increase the Zoloft.

[laineyk]

I take it at 9:00 am every morning with food. By 2:00 I NEED my next dose of klonopin, shaking hands anxious, off balanced feeling...pretty much feel like this all day but as the day goes on it gets worse & then most of the time I start to feel calmer by 6-7:00 pm

 

I have to force myself to eat because my stomach is so off

 

my head feels like its in a fog and my eyes get blurry & seem not to be able to track well

 

 

AM I NUTS!!!?????? this is so scarey and I dont know who to turn to

[Altostrata]

From the FDA http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/04/briefing/4006b1_06_zoloft-label.pdf

mean peak plasma concentrations (Cmax) of sertraline occurred between 4.5 to 8.4 hours post-dosing

If you take it at 9 a.m., I would guess you would feel the worst side effects to be between 1:30 p.m. and 5:30 p.m.

 

It seems the Zoloft is causing your symptoms and you are taking Klonopin to counter them. If I were you, I'd reduce the Zoloft dosage by 10mg tomorrow and see how you do.

[laineyk]

how do I do that with pills I am taking 1 50mgs pill along with 1 25mg pill. I had these same symptoms on 50....but had only been on the 50 for a week

[laineyk]

also...the klonopin does nothing for morning anxiety

[laineyk]

sorry that I am such a bother, but another question...when I was taking the zoloft last summer (increasing my dose) klonopin worked great only needed very little if at all. after I went off zoloft and have been trying to RI the klonopin doesnt have that much effect on me...is it due to the withdrawal or do you think I have built a tolerance?

[SaveMooses]

Hey Lainey! I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. It is very scary, but just know that you CAN make it through it! You are describing all the symptoms I had when I was going through that nightmare. Unfortunately, very normal for nightmare withdrawall symptoms. Just do what everyone suggests ... stick to ONE dose, most likely the 50 mg.. for a while. Weeks. Your nervous system is bouncing around not knowing what to do and is reacting to every change.

Stick with ONE dose of everything. Breathe. Remember that these are temporary symptoms that you will get through. I wish I could tell you how long, but it is different for everyone. Unless your husband went through something like this, he won't understand. He can't. Maybe he can log on and read what everyone else has gone through with withdrawal symptoms and know that it is real.

Just remember that WE KNOW what you are going through is all too real. You are not going insane. You are having physical symptoms that your body needs time to recover from. Keep hanging in there. If taking hot baths help, do it. If sitting in the sunshine helps, do it. But don't push yourself too hard and expect too much right now. It's a process with no magic quick solution. Don't we all wish!

Hang in there! You can do it! You CAN make it to the other side.

[peggy]

if you can't reduce by the 10mg - what about 12.5mg, which would be a quarter of a pill? I would definitely not increase your dose, it sounds like zoloft if now too stimulating for you, so increasing the dose may just make it worse.

 

try to get some meditation in during the day - that may help to reduce the background anxiety

[laineyk]

Save Moose & peggy, thank you...Peggy your hx sounds like mine. did or do you have debilitating anxiety during this? I am unable to work because its gotten so bad.

 

I think that in another month it will have been a whole year since all this crap started...I have lost an entire year. I was able to work up until December but then I had been in w/d for 2 months & could not function.

 

I am going to give the 75mg another week and if I dont feel any better then I will go down by 12.5mg and so forth...unless you think by staying at 75mg any longer will just make things worse?

[Altostrata]

If I were you, I'd cut the 25mg tablet in half and take only half a tablet (12.5mg) with the 50mg tablet TOMORROW, for a total of 62.5mg.

 

See if the side effects are reduced.

 

Whatever effect the Klonopin had on you before, your nervous system is different now. Your system has been sensitized by withdrawal, it's unlikely you'll be able to return to your earlier medication pattern, maybe ever.

 

It's possible even 50mg Zoloft will be too much.

 

Don't try and go back in history -- take care of yourself now.

[laineyk]

thank you alto....I am going to try what you say. you have been a God send so far, what you say seems like more sense. Now when I see the dr on the 26th he wont be happy....he expects me to be on 150mgs by then.

 

I have heard from a couple other ppl that the reason the klonopin doesnt have the same effect as b4 is because how badly I have messed up my brain chemicles

[Skyler]

I have heard from a couple other ppl that the reason the klonopin doesnt have the same effect as b4 is because how badly I have messed up my brain chemicles

Hi Lainey.. you probably have hit tolerance and klonopin may no longer have the same effect. The sedative properties pretty usually don't last much beyond a month, and increasing the dose results in more of the same.. you may now be taking it so you don't have WD symptoms from klonopin. And as Alto says, once we are sensitized to one psychotropic, there are cross over effects. Pretty lousy kettle of fish.

 

Skyler

[Skyler]

I have heard from a couple other ppl that the reason the klonopin doesnt have the same effect as b4 is because how badly I have messed up my brain chemicles

Hi Lainey.. you probably have hit tolerance and klonopin may no longer have the same effect. The sedative properties pretty usually don't last much beyond a month, and increasing the dose results in more of the same.. you may now be taking it so you don't have WD symptoms from klonopin.

 

And as Alto says, once we are sensitized to one psychotropic, there are cross over effects. Benzos have their own taper protocols but this is for another time.. now you focus on the AD.

 

Skyler

[Wingbatty]

Hi Lainey -

 

You are getting good advice and I can't improve on that. I read your story & my jaw dropped. Your body has been a war zone!

 

It is very hard to stick with one thing and give it time. We want quick solutions, but your body needs time to settle down. I wish you the best on your journey. I know you can do this, your husband CAN have his wife back. And more importantly, you can have your life back. It just takes some time.

[laineyk]

I know I sound like an idiot but I will be taking my zoloft at 9:00 this morning and on P****** EVERYONE seems to be in agreement with all of you. question is do I really want to wean down AGain to 50mgs and stay there for 8 weeks or should I just stay on 75mg for 8 weeks. at this point I feel no better but not a whole lot worse then the week I was on 50mg

 

Please someone get back to me

[Skyler]

I know I sound like an idiot but I will be taking my zoloft at 9:00 this morning and on P****** EVERYONE seems to be in agreement with all of you. question is do I really want to wean down AGain to 50mgs and stay there for 8 weeks or should I just stay on 75mg for 8 weeks. at this point I feel no better but not a whole lot worse then the week I was on 50mgPlease someone get back to me

 

If I were you, I'd cut the 25mg tablet in half and take only half a tablet (12.5mg) with the 50mg tablet TOMORROW, for a total of 62.5mg.

 

See if the side effects are reduced.

 

It's possible even 50mg Zoloft will be too much.

 

Don't try and go back in history -- take care of yourself now.

From your sig line:

"50mgs 1 week, 75mgs 1 week 100mg 2 days Psch PA told me to go back to 50mg for 4 weeks

saw Psychiatrist from same practice (1st time) instructed to increase weekly till 150mgs

day 6 of 75mgs feb 10th"

 

The above would have my head spinning! So much input from different sources. Yikes. I like Alto's suggestion of not going back in history.

 

So you were at 75 mgs for one week (the latest at 100 mgs for 2 days?), up from 50 mgs. How about taking 50 mgs this morning, and waiting for Alto to get back to you as you could add a little later in the day if need be? Yesterday she suggested stepping down to 62.5 mgs as an interim. Maybe ask for clarification? Sounds like you need to find the best dose for you and not worry about the hold time for now.

 

Edited 9:30 AM

[Altostrata]

Please re-read:

 

Since you've been bouncing around so much, you might plan on a couple of months.

 

If your nervous system doesn't settle down with a consistent 50mg dose, you may need more to reduce the withdrawal symptoms.

 

 

Lainey, you'll have to guess at the dosage on which you might stabilize. Could be 50mg is appropriate.

 

Whatever you do, be consistent, keep notes about the dosage, time of day you take it, and daily symptom patterns.

 

 

From the FDA http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/04/briefing/4006b1_06_zoloft-label.pdf

mean peak plasma concentrations (Cmax) of sertraline occurred between 4.5 to 8.4 hours post-dosing

If you take it at 9 a.m., I would guess you would feel the worst side effects to be between 1:30 p.m. and 5:30 p.m.

 

It seems the Zoloft is causing your symptoms and you are taking Klonopin to counter them. If I were you, I'd reduce the Zoloft dosage by 10mg tomorrow and see how you do.

 

 

If I were you, I'd cut the 25mg tablet in half and take only half a tablet (12.5mg) with the 50mg tablet TOMORROW, for a total of 62.5mg.

 

See if the side effects are reduced.

 

Whatever effect the Klonopin had on you before, your nervous system is different now. Your system has been sensitized by withdrawal, it's unlikely you'll be able to return to your earlier medication pattern, maybe ever.

 

It's possible even 50mg Zoloft will be too much.

 

Don't try and go back in history -- take care of yourself now.

 

If I were you, I'd lower the dosage.

[laineyk]

thank you alto, I took the 62.5mgs today.....will give it how may days before I go back to 50mgs? I am so done with all this jumping up & down.

 

my husband thinks its due to mercury fillings..this all started after I had been skipping doses for quite a while

[peggy]

Peggy your hx sounds like mine. did or do you have debilitating anxiety during this? I am unable to work because its gotten so bad.

 

Hi Lainey - i did have quite debilitating anxiety but only for a about 3 - 4 weeks at a time - it would reach a peak after i reduced off to quickly and then dissipate slowly after i reinstated. I was lucky in that my doctor never changed my drug around and i never alternate dosed, just kept trying to get off!! - but i would stay on for a couple of years in between attempts to get off - until 2009 when i kept trying every 6 months or so.. I would reduce off over a couple of months and bang get anxiety, panic and go back on. Fortunately i was always able to stabilise on my dose - even though i would worry the whole 3 weeks if i would settle. I am so grateful to have found this site and the support and knowledge that i have gained.

 

My other sanity saver is yoga and meditation. I use podcasts from meditation oasis - especially when anxiety is bad because my thoughts jump around too much if i try and meditate without something to guide me.