Sweetcreature ( new and scared) sorry this is long

[Sweetcreature]

Hello all I am sweet creature, a 36 year old female from Northern Ireland. I am scared stiff and glad to have found this site. Thank you for allowing me to join. A bit about me: I was given seroxat (Paxil) 20 mg 12 years ago. After one year of 20 my doc put me up to 30 mg and I have been on that dose (with countless attempts to stop) ever since.

 

Of course I should never have been prescribed it- I was suffering grief, lack of direction and low self esteem - that was all.

 

Fast forward to now and several attempts to get off it I am very unwell and frightened. Every single year I tried to reduce the dose ( no clue what I was doing, NO guidance from doctors) they told me I could come off it 'gradually' over a month and so, every time I tried that and felt like **** for months on end ( NEVER getting to zero) I was told ' now mustn't be the right time for your to come off...wait till things are more settled for you....'

 

I assumed I was just weak and tried to out it to the back of my mind... I grew sick of this in 2007 and always knew in my heart that the when I up dosed, I felt good but ' fake, impatient, irritable, excitable, caffeinated, aggressive, and at times creative, loving, and tendency to over react. My self esteem was still low but I sort of didn't care that it was.....it was strange and I got sooooo used to feeling this way that I thought that this WAS me.....I started it at the age of 24 so I had little memory of who I really was. Somewhere inside I knew that seroxat was MAKING me depressed, tired, irritable and was holding me back I was doing my usual ' trying to take half or a quarter dose of 30' met with a private psychiatrist who said the same thing- 'maybe now is not the right time to come off...' she wasn't able to answer any of my questions about hOW the drugs were impacting on my thinking, reasoning, the way I felt, she just suggested I try again at a later time.

 

I carried on on a full dose of 30 and life was 'okay' I continued to want to be med free but had no way of knowing how to do it safely and each failed attempt to get close to zero made me think I must just have a VERY bad depression and I wasn't strong enough to do it. I lived away from my family for all of this time- in London, held a variety of responsible jobs as a social worker, had lots of good friends but always always wanted to be off the meds and wondered why I couldn't do it... I knew many people who had been on fluoxetine for example and got off it after say, a year- why was I finding it so hard?

 

Fast forward to October 2009 I decided once and for all that the only way to do it was cold turkey and took myself to my sisters home in Portugal for five weeks, left my job ( was temping at that time) and went on a food fast for ten or eleven days. I reckoned that that absence of other toxins from my body would enable me to get these poisons out.....I was on half a tablet at that time and had been for a month or so, and stopped abruptly while fasting, thinking that surely I would be ok I just had to be 'strong.Think positive etc'...

 

Well, I got through the next month or so but by Xmas I was feeling sore, flush and miserable, I had no idea what was to come.... By march I had stared a new job but was becoming so anxious I was crying ten times a day. Sudden noises startled me, my body had shivers (or vibrations )through it and I didn't know what was happening me. Everything scared me. I realise now of course I was in protracted withdrawal - worsened by the cT.

 

I ran back to my doc, started Prozac for two weeks and went back to see my sister. How I made the flight to Portugal I will never know. I got worse on Prozac and was hallucinating, screaming out in fear and close to throwing myself off her balcony- how I survived I do not know- still- I assumed that I was a very depressed person and no longer knew who I was was underneath because I had been relying on these meds for several years- a lot of my youth really.

 

By the time time I got back to London I needed sleeping tablets and diazepam for one week. Doc didn't want to put me on Paxil so insisted on sertraline. I stablised a bit on that for a few months but felt 'numb' even more so than I did with Paxil. September 2010 I went back to doc and asked for original dose of Paxil. By this stage I was of the view that I am a 'depressive and need this tablet like a diabetic needs insulin.....' and after the hell that I have been through I never planned to come off. End of story. My family agreed.

 

Life continued and I was functional. The psychiatrist I had seen those years earlier had said some thing with stayed with me: if seroxat has served you reasonably well till now it makes no sense to change it to another medicine' it was with that reasoning that I approached my GP in London and ( I realise now like an 'addict') asked for the original drug and dose.

 

She was reluctant actually but went along with it) Deep down and as time ticked on I really did want to be off meds and started to suspect all over again that they were beginning to make me worse- sure- going back on them INITIALLY gave me a boost and 'fed' the addiction, but it slowly wore off and by 18 months later I was again more convinced that the meds had stopped working and I needed to get off them.

 

This time, I told myself I needed to be strong. I needed to do it slowly (and as I had been in therapy for two and a half years I was much more self aware.) I also decided to move home to Ireland to be near my family, in the event of 'crashing' again, but, I told myself that as I was doing it slowly this would not be a problem.

 

I'm July 2012 with the help of a non profit company ( who shall remain nameless due to the rules on this forum) I stared my taper. Reducing at 10% decreases and using their supplements. I actually think their supplements were quite helpful but pushed on and on at 10% decreases - despite not feeling great by the time I reached the last 30%. I should add that they endorsed a 10% reduction off of the ORIGINAL dose only and not the slow slow method discussed here where the amount never really reached zero....

 

I knew nothing about micro tapers. I stuck with it. I reduced every two weeks. At the last 5% I even took five weeks to do it instead of the recommended 14 days, Feb 10th I took my last dose and found a job ( I had taken yet another break from working so that I could rest and relax etc and manage the withdrawals) I have to admit I found the last 12 weeks hard but wanted it over with and the poison out of my body and as it wasn't unbearable I thought I would push on....

 

The process took me seven months and I assumed that was a slow taper.... Isn't it?? I did acupuncture twice a week and it helped minimise the sore achey body and lifted my mood a little. Within a month I was working in a new job but I found a great sadness descend on me, within another week, anxiety for no reason, a few weeks after that, fatigue and insomnia and by April a general nervous ness that I could not describe or wish on any one. I assumed that I had done it all 'by the book' and so, the anxiety was in 'my head' I was just ' too negative a person' I told myself that I missed London and needed to go back there, then, everything would be ok. (I did and DO miss London but running back was not the answer as I soon found out.)

 

I assumed that as I had come off the meds 'slowly' I needed to get a grip. I ran back to London and to my old job, I felt worse. I stayed two months, didn't socialise continued to be nervous and easily startled and found that my body was shaking from inside.

 

I started a meditation course, searched for reasons for feeling so scared and physically anxious. Saw my old therapist again who wanted me back on meds- which I wish I had done sooner- despite the fact that she did not know about WD, she had my best intentions at heart at the time and I wish I had listened to her, if only to reinstate SOONER.......

 

I stayed with dear friends during this time and sometimes thought I should start the Paxil again but was determined not to. I did a bit more research, found Breggin, Healy, Whitaker, felt scared. Told myself that it couldn't be protracted withdrawal as I did it slow. I kept taking the supplements and planned my return to Ireland. That was the answer I told myself. I was anxious cos I left my family and it would all settle down when I got home, found a.

 

New job and got settled....by this stage I felt wired all the time, unable to properly sleep or rest, frightened out of my wits by loud noises such as the phone raining in my new job or carrying out a routine home visit to a family in need. I was screaming inside but determined not to go back to the doctor or on tablets again. I managed this till June. Doc was useless said it was rebound depression and gave me citalopram.

 

I took citalopram for one week and then reminded myself how far I had come, watched peter Breggin on you tube and told myself to pull myself together - saw a new therapist who I now realise didn't know how to help me as by this stage I was a nervous wreck and what did he know about WD?... I struggled on and on and on and on and on till now....I had what I assume were windows and waves. Mostly bad waves pretty much every day.

 

I have quit my job now and yet don't know how I managed to stay there for five months - several times during a bad wave I 'restated' the citalopram given to me, only to take it for two days and then find some sort of strength within and change my mind and revert it- I had to be strong! Five weeks ago I stuck with the citalopram for ten days and was a crying shaking mess.

 

I went back to my GP who said I had rebound depression and I asked for seroxat as I knew it worked in the past. By this time though I had done much more reading and research - I nodded as the doc told me about rebound depression and thanked him for the script, all the while, aware more than ever of what I was suffering but too weak to argue with him.

 

I took seroxat 20 mg for 18 days- I felt WoRse....I stopped for three days- I felt better- on the third night I was climbing the walls with a pounding heart, a vibrations through my arms and legs, I had to take the darned seroxat. I took 20 mg for another week. Waves waves and more waves, but this stage my parents finally believe me and support me in all of my views about this- they have WITnEssed it. This is exactly what was happening in London four years ago too! Except that time I thankfully reinstated the meds quite quickly.....this time it was basically been a gap of February through till November and with the exception of a week or so of citalopram the gap has been pretty large.

 

I'm very frightened that reinstating is not even going to work now.... Out of fear, I took 30 mg instead for eight days and still life was one big wave......I have, as of last night gone down to 20 mg as my mum and I agree that I went up to 30 ( out of desperation) too quickly.... My GP is absolutely useless, she wanted to send me for CBT - I asked her 'with the greatest respect doctor how is CBT going to help me with the electric shock type of vibrations in my body? This is an addiction and I am suffering a long withdrawal from the meds.....she said 'okay... I can make a referral to psychiatry for you....'

 

I have so many questions guys, I know you cannot dispense medical advice but I would love to know your thoughts....right now I want to 'stabilise' and then micro taper with your support....I don't even now if stability will be possible after ten months off and what I now realise is a worsening protracted withdrawal....maybe I would be better to stop once more ( I've only been on them four weeks) and start to ride out the WD for as long as it takes? It's an option if this reinstatement doesn't work....although I am feeling a little better today- a few days ago I would not have been able to type this.....I'm not sure how long to give the reinstatement but it is disappointing not to mention scary that it is already four weeks and I have a. LOT of waves......waking up is scary as this is all I think about- I'm sure I'm not alone on that....

 

As for my life circumstances- I have quit work and am essentially living with my parents who thankfully ( at last) believe every word I am saying.... I am very blessed to have that. We are trying to contact Healy in Wales and a few others in London for advice and I am seeing a nutritionist ( who will remain nameless if need be as per rules) who recommends a SUPER slow taper and nutritional therapy.... In the meantime my life is just one day at a time....I am scared....so scared and would love to know your thoughts - whatever they might be... I worry that I am going to be one of those people who no matter how hard they try is not going to be able to come off......12 years on a drug like Paxil is a long time...

 

Bless you all, I'm glad to be here, thank you for reading my story, Sweet creature x

Edited February 15, 2014 by Altostrata
added paragraph spaces

[mammaP]

Hi Sweet creature, welcome to SA. I am so so sorry to read of your ordeal.

I know first hand the nightmare seroxat can throw you into, with that first pill 

my life was to be hell for years and years. 

 

Dr Healy is very good and I really hope you can get to see him. Alto is our ultimate withdrawal

expert and will be along to meet you sometime soon. I'm sorry I can't offer very much more than 

support, I am quite new to this but others will be along too who know more than I do. 

 

For now, be sure that from now you will get real help from real people who KNOW exactly what

you are going through, some of us are tapering and some in varying stages of withdrawal, Some

 have been through nightmares like yourself and have been where you are now.

It does get better, I promise. 

 

It would help if you could put your drug history in your sig line,approx  start, stop dates and doses.

Here's how to do it. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

[Meimeiquest]

Welcome SC, What breaks my heart the most about this is that if you had been directed in a proper taper in the beginning, none of the rest would be necessary. I, personally, like the nutritionist's advice...just be careful about adding new supplements as they can be overly activating or paradoxical during withdrawal, just start at tiny doses and work up slowly. Welcome to our merry band!

[Sweetcreature]

Hello MamaP and Meimeiquest,

Thank you for your quick responses. I am happy to be here and just to be heard and validated. It seems that there are people from all corners of the globe on this site and a wealth of good info. Thanks again for your replies.

 

Meimeiquest : really? Do you reckon I might have made it had I gone slower? That actually gives me hope! I thought seven months WAS slow.....how I wish I had researched it more.....about supplements - Presently I am taking fish oil, vit c, magnesium taurite, L- theainne, and vit D. All in quite conservative amounts. The nutritionist recommends the same micro tapering approach as you guys- glad to say. That's IF I even stablise, although like I said I am calmer today...

 

MammaP - have you met Healy? Yes he seems good and I noticed there are two psychiatrists who recognise discontinuation syndrome in Ireland too so I will be checking them out.

 

Do you ladies agree that that is what I have btw??

 

I know everyone's story is different but my God we all really have suffered. I swear if I make it out of this alive I will expose psychiatry and sue GSK.

 

how are YOU both feeling today?

 

With love Sweetcreature x

[mammaP]

I haven't met Dr Healey personally but he is on the list of recommended doctors and 

he has written some excellent papers and has done extensive research.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/988-recommended-doctors-therapists-or-clinics/

 

Some members have contacted him and had replies, which is great because so many doctors would not

reply to patients. 

 

I would say it is definitely discontinuation syndrome! I tapered VERY slowly (by my understaning) from

effexor, got right down to just 5 beads from a capsule and stopped. I thought that was it, but nope,

withdrawal kicked in and bit me on the proverbial! That's when I came here. I reinstated and it took 7

months to stabilise enough to start tapering again. The more you chop and change meds/doses etc,

the more messed up the brain and nervous system becomes. I have now been tapering for 22 months,

take just 3 beads and it will be about another 3 months before I'm done. Some people have gone even

slower, some of us just need to do that to stay functioning. Like yourself I had been through withdrawal

many times before when meds were swapped and changed during in patient treatments, but was always 

put down to return of symptoms 

 

Side effects of these drugs can be utterly crippling, but withdrawal even more so as you have discovered. 

I am doing just fine now, thank you for asking. I am 100% better than I was at the full dose of effexor,

which had me disabled. I felt better and better with each drop,but stopped too soon, with hindsight I 

know I reduced by too much at the lower doses, but here I am now, time has passed but I'm doing ok.

When I take that last little bead we are having a cyber party , wine, cakes and everything! (cyber cakes

and wine don't count, hehe  )

[Sweetcreature]

Wow MamaP you've been through the mill. I see you have been on various meds mad all along the WD was mistaken for ' rebound depression'. Makes you mad...

 

How slow were you on your taper that you did alone? Glad you are feeling well now and think it can be done! Maybe my seven months taper WAS indeed too fast. I saw that Alto explains it well when she talks about the drug leaving your body faster when it is in more miniscule amounts...

 

If I stablise I too reckon I will stay on 20 for six months at least- again I see that months- not weeks is recommended.

Yes indeed I will be there for your cyber party

 

And again, 'Thank you'

SC x

[Sweetcreature]

MamaP when you reinstated you only went back up to five beads?? Or your initial dose? Wondering if I have been hasty in taking 20, then 30 then 20 again....but hey, I was desperate...and didn't know... So glad you're feeling well, your story from the other days when you were out for lunch was inspiring

 

SC x

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Sweetcreature.

MamaP when you reinstated you only went back up to five beads?? Or your initial dose? Wondering if I have been hasty in taking 20, then 30 then 20 again....but hey, I was desperate...and didn't know... So glad you're feeling well, your story from the other days when you were out for lunch was inspiringSC x

 

Yes, this may be why you had difficulty with reinstatement. Your system may have been sensitized by all the drug changes and cannot tolerate the larger dosages any more.

 

You might have better luck with, for example, a 2mg Paxil reinstatement.

 

However, even that might not work now, again because of all the drug changes.

 

If you can see Dr. Healy, he might have some ideas for you.

[Sweetcreature]

Thank you Altostrata,

 

Oh I just don't know what to do.  I can't get Healy - haven't heard back from him yet.

 

Wonder if I should go as low as 2 mg - feeling calmer for the last 48 hours on 20 mg...but then again on Sunday night I SKIPPED the 30.   I see what you mean about 2mg but am scared about which way to go....I think I will stay on 20 for another day or two and report back. Having said that, if I AM going to reduce to miniscule doses, I would need to do it soon - right?

 

thank you so much,

 

SC

[Altostrata]

Perhaps 20mg is the right dose for you. If you start to feel it's too much, you may wish to go down to 10mg.

[Sweetcreature]

Thank you Alto strata, I will be mindful and see....that is IF this reinstatement works at all, its risky I know.  Glad to be here and to get some thoughts and support.  I hope YOU are doing well today?

 

Did you micro taper?  Do you feel 'well' now?  I think your drug was also Paxil? I realise they all suck.  Please can I read your story if it available?

 

SC x

[Sweetcreature]

Alto, do you think my taper was too fast at seven months?

[Altostrata]

No, I went off Paxil over about 3 weeks in October 2004 and suffered prolonged withdrawal syndrome. I had no idea more gradual tapering was necessary. My doctors did not recognize withdrawal symptoms and reinstate Paxil.

 

I am much better now.

[Altostrata]

Everyone requires a different rate of taper. If you developed withdrawal syndrome, you went too fast for your nervous system.

[Sweetcreature]

three weeks....my God..

 

Glad you are feeling better now and running this site.  'Thank you'.

 

My taper was hard but sort of 'bearable', I made it so - I quit work and took it easy, got acupuncture twice a week and 'stuck it out' I remember having a sore body all over and feeling very tired and cold, but the acupuncture helped so I pushed on - thinking that the sooner it was over with the sooner I could get on with my life...looking back that WAS a mistake, also perhaps the fact that I was doing drops of 1/10th of the initial dose, as opposed to 10% of the previous which I know you recommend...does Breggin et al recommend that too? or is this your own suggestion? I plan to buy the books but have no income at present - sadly...

 

I now plan a longer micro taper (if this works) something like two years + what you think? I realise it is too early to tell.....thanks

 

SC x

[mammaP]

MamaP when you reinstated you only went back up to five beads?? Or your initial dose? Wondering if I have been hasty in taking 20, then 30 then 20 again....but hey, I was desperate...and didn't know... So glad you're feeling well, your story from the other days when you were out for lunch was inspiringSC x

Yes SC, I reinstated at 5 beads, but that was too much because I'd become sensitised and I dropped straight to 4 

and stayed there for 7 months. There were some huge waves and I almost called asked to be admitted to hospital

at one point. I got to the doctors surgery and couldn't tell him how sick I felt, I couldn't face going back there when

I was actually sitting in front of the doctor. There have also been great windows, and now it's more window than wave. 

[Sweetcreature]

Oh Im so glad it is more window than wave mamaP...wow, only reinstated the five...and then four...I will keep a close eye on whether or not I am stabilising on the 20...if I NEED to I will reduce to 10 or less but must be mindful of not trying to cheat I guess...by that I mean the mindset of 'oh, well being on ten instantly makes the taper shorter (oh goody) you know what I mean? 

 

I think that taking shortcuts has got me here in the first place although if you read my previous post I explain that my taper was not UNBEARABLE....it was hard, yes, but I thought it was par for the course.....that in itself frightens me ladies because I am thinking well, if it wasn't SO bad...and I am suffering so badly now...what does that mean for a slow taper...Am I just destined to suffer with this regardless and ought to think about remaining on the meds.. :-(

 

Sigh...lots of questions which I know you don't have the answers to....

 

It's just nice to be validated and supported and to read success stories of people who are med free at last...sometimes it is hard not to compare myself to the others I have read about...Alto for example was only on 1/3 of the dose I was on, for 1/3 of the time and she suffered badly....!  Yikes....bu,t we are all different AND she is doing much better now...(very pleased for you Alto)

 

I watched a you tube vid featuring David Healy and he openly stated that there are some people who for whatever reason 'cannot come off'...that scared me...and Stuart Shipkos blog on MIA where he (quite rightly I suppose) admitted that he does not know what to do for discontinuation and it is 'heartbreaking' to watch his patients suffer.

 

Still I have hope, and now, support, thank you again x

[mammaP]

We've talked about Dr Shipko in one of the topics, a lot of members were disheartened by his statement.

It will be in the news section, there's controversies, in the media, etc. It's very interesting reading. 

 

Cheating is only cheating yourself. I did it, being impatient! This was my 3rd or 4th attempt at tapering this drug.

CT, tapering as per doctors' instructions, and a taper by bridging with prozac, can't actually remember if he had

me take effexor and prozac at the same time or stopped the effexor and switch to prozac,

That was a newly qualified doctor,the psychiatrist wasn't happy about that!

Whatever it was, I was very ill and had to stick with effexor, the psych said I would be on it for life.

That was about 5/6 years ago. I felt like you, that I would never get off them and would need them for life to be

stable. They were making me very sick in the end and I just couldn't cope with it.  I felt better and better with

every drop.

 

This taper has been 22 months now, it will be 2 years by the time I've finished. It would have been longer if

I hadn't stopped at 5 beads, but there wouldn't have been the withdrawal along the way. It was accidental really,

I didn't intend stopping then. I forgot a dose and didn't get any symptoms so I thought I was ready. Prior to that

I would get withdrawal headache if I was late with a dose.  We live and learn! 

[Sweetcreature]

Thank you mamaP, good night to you, speak again soon x

[Sweetcreature]

I wanted to add a few more things about me to my journal for any one who has thoughts and advice.  As you know I am experimenting a 20 mg hold of paxil until I stablise, wondering if indeed 10mg or 15 mg might be my stablising dose and what to look out for.  I now feel a bit more 'settled' although I am sure you all will understand that this term is used loosely.

 

Given that I am not Suicidal now and only feeling the 'electric shocks' in my legs and arms, and the pounding in my chest on a scale of about 2/10 (it was 8 or 9 when I first reinstated four weeks ago and a 9.5 last sunday when I was asking my mum to put me in hospital)

 

I haven't mentioned it in my signature  (and will edit it so it reflects it) but since that fateful day that I returned to the doctor (29 May) I was given citalopram 20 mg I have in essence really confused and upset my nervous system with all of the changes.  

 

I started and stopped SEVERAL times since May (all of this was not done to deliberately cause damage to myself of course but I'm my own efforts to try and feel better I flitted back and forth many times, crying and sobbing as I thought I was 'caving' and starting the medication life again and was not 'strong enough' - but you see, I always after two days regretted it.  

 

I wonder if the seven days of taking citalopram 20mg back in May and the on off on off has set my entire system off??  Is that possible?  I'm quite sure it is but that no GP or lay person would agree...given my already very sensitised state though all these 'mini' starts are indeed likely to have sent me out of whack?  Of course, I knew NOTHING about experimenting with small doses or I would have, and wonder if that week in may was what was sending my poor system into almost melt down...

 

Here are the dates:

 

20 mg citalopram: May 29th - June 4th = 7 days (stopped as I decided I need to be strong and could 'do it' re read all my research FELT WORSE ON THIS TOO - electric legs and arms began)

 

20 mg citalopram: July 14th+ 15th        = 2 days (started as I was all over the place emotionally, sleeping less, unable to eat)

20 mg citalopram: Sept 16th                 = 1 day (started as I was getting pounding in my chest and legs, assumed it was depression)

20 mg citalopram: Oct 11th                   = 1 day (as above, simply felt could no longer cope, only to regret it and not know any better)

10 mg citalopram: Oct 12th                   = 1 day (as above)

10 mg citalopram: Oct 22nd                  = 1 day (as above)

20 mg citalopram: Oct 23rd- Nov 3rd    = 12 days (as above)

10 mg seroxat       Nov 6th                    Back to GP, told them about above experience, gave me seroxat did not suggest wash out time

20 mg Seroxat      Nov 7th - Nov 23rd   = 18 days

November 24th, 25th, 26th MISSED DOSES AS CONVINCED I WAS WORSE AND MEDS MAKING ME WORSE FELT BETTER UNTIL....

November 27th HAD TO START AGAIN AS ELECTRIC SHOCKS/VIRBATIONS FROM WITHIN STARTED AGAIN

30 mg Seroxat Novermber 28th - December 7th (as I stupidly thought I needed a higher dose)

December 8th skipped 30 mg dose to change down to....

 

20 mg seroxat: 9th December onwards and watching carefully...

 

Oh God even as I write this I scare myself....I think Alto wrote somewhere it is like 'playing ping pong with your brain' - I didn't know any better and my assumption is that had that messing around happened even in a person who had never taken meds they would not know whether they are coming or going.....

 

Anyway, wanted you to know this bit about me so that you are able to advice...

 

I was also at this stage convinced that I had a drug problem and found myself several times at local Narcotics Anonymous meetings...all the while shaking, almost fainting with lack of food and having those electric shock/ vibrations from within.... while they were caring and compassionate I don't think it is the right place for me...

 

thank you,

 

SC

[mammaP]

It started in 2001 with that very first tablet. From then on there has been little stability,

you were doing what you thought was best for yourself, it's a nightmare trying to get it right.

 

You seem much calmer now, like Alto said, 20 mg might be the dose to stabilise on. I 

would stay on that dose for a good few weeks to allow the CNS to settle down before

changing again. There will be waves, when it's best to just ride them until they pass,

there will be windows too when you feel much better.  

 

I'm really glad you are feeling calmer. 

[Sweetcreature]

Thank you MammaP, I am scared about what to do but I have had 4-5 days of relative 'stability' with the 20 so perhaps I will stay there for now. I hope you are well this evening x

[Sweetcreature]

I am wondering how 'good' stable will get for me.  My main issue now is the tightness in my chest and a flutter in my tummy.  it feels like something is crushing my chest making it difficult to breathe and as though I have a heartbeat that is in my stomach...

 

Sunday I took 15 mg instead of 20 to experiment (half of a 30 mg tablet)  I woke on Monday with brain clicks and also in the middle of the night in a terrible night sweat.  I was trying to determine if maybe 20 is too high for me and of 15 was the better dose to opt for while stabilising...I went back to 20 on monday....now I just dont know b/c I have had this issue in my chest for months...is it likely to subside as I continue with 20 (I don't think 15 is right given the way I woke up on monday)

 

I restarted the seroxat on 6th November! And yes, I even went up to 30 for a week so my brain is all over the place but Is this current state the best i can hope for??

 

SC x

[Sweetcreature]

I know I am being impatient, please forgive me...I am worried about what to do.  I have noticed that the chest pounding gets slightly worse after taking the 20 mg and then after SEVERAL HOURS eases off a TINY bit.

 

Basically I am taking my meds at the same time every day (2.30pm) it is now 6.30 pm and it feels about 10% worse...I can predict that by 1.00 or 2.00 am it will have eased a little and be a little better by 8.00am ish when I wake up.

 

Question is, what to do?  As you will see from my other post I experimented with 15 mg and felt the additional 'withdrawal' was too much...so think that 15 is not enough...but wonder if 20 is too much...

 

thinking of going to the GP tomorrow and getting the liquid so that I can try say, the equivalent of 19 or 18 mg in mil form....or do I carry on with 20 in the hope that another week will help the chest issues subside?? (been five weeks back on paxil with a bit of switching of doses, not to mention only a TWO DAY wash out from two weeks of citalopram)

 

I'm sorry to be impatient, I really am, and I know this will get moved to my thread its just that I really want the experts to see it...in time, I too will do my best to be of help...

 

thanks so much..SC 

[Altostrata]

Please don't make changes in your dosage. That's the opposite of establishing stability.

[Altostrata]

Are you experiencing the same symptom pattern now as before you dropped to 15mg for a day?

[Meimeiquest]

Hi SC, I know it feels weird, but the chest pounding is really not a harmful thing...I want to say "always" but that is too strong a word.  IF you lose a rhythm altogether, it is just really fast and irregular, you should count the number of beats in a minute and call your doctor.  At least that's what my husband was told when doing it with a change in bp medication.  It indicates that your autonomic nervous system is destabilized, which happens in withdrawal.  Withdrawing more will make it worse.  My heart has been pounding for years, first from drugs, then from coming off drugs, and I think it is still fine.  But I know it is very disconcerting when you don't know what is happening.

[Sweetcreature]

Thank you both so much

 

The chest pounding was exactly as bad on the day I took 15 mg - the only difference was that I ALSO had slight brain clicks and woke up in the middle of the night in a terrible night sweat so perhaps 20 IS the dose for me?

 

It is good to know that it is SSRI related - I know it is but it is scary..... and no the beats do not seem to be irregular...more like someone heavy is sitting on my chest or as if two hands are grabbing me from within my flesh and squeezing constantly..it gets a tiny bit more pronounced when I take the 20 each day, and is a TINY bit better in the mornings.  That is my remaining symptom at present so perhaps stability is on the way...I know others are suffering worse than this...

 

Tomorrow I will ask for the doc to listen to my heart just to be sure but mum took my pulse and it is strong.

Stay on 20 then for now?

 

Ladies, 'THANK YOU' x

[Sweetcreature]

I am sorry again for my impatience and I know you can't advice perse...thinking I will continue with the 20 for now and wondered your thoughts...

 

thank you again

[Altostrata]

You might want to reduce very carefully, 1mg every 4 days, to 15mg.

[Sweetcreature]

Hmmm, good thought - you have some ingenious ways with your tapering,  Thank you for getting back to me

[Rhiannon]

SC, I think you need to quit switching dosages. Every time you do that you destabilize the chemistry of your brain again. Every time you take 5 mg more or 10 mg less "just today" you yank the rug out from under the healing you've done up to there.

If you're going to try to stabilize at a lower dose, do it the way Alto says: reduce very carefully and gradually. Then find a dose and stay there for a long time to stabilize. And by a long time I mean, probably months. 

 

As Alto says, our brains aren't made of rubber. And as I say, we all get only so much slack, and sooner or later we use it up. After that we seem to be increasingly sensitive to med changes and each change sets us back further.  Eventually people seem to get to the point that nothing helps at all. It's incredibly tragic when that happens.

 

You are not at that point yet. Please don't go there. When you go up and down on doses like you have been (large amounts like 5 or 10 mg at a time) you're playing with fire.  Please don't do that to yourself.

[Sweetcreature]

Absolutely agreed Rhi, and thanks.  Will stay and 20 - for how long I don't know as I need to see how stable I get.  My Thinking is start 10% taper about 12 weeks AFTER STABILISING - any thoughts?

 

Any questions I have about tapering in the meantime will be related to just the fact that I want to learn and am, of course keen to get started too...

 

I count myself lucky that I have moved on as much as I have in two or three weeks.  I am still not very functional but appetite has improved and vibrations in my body have ceased. All of this has been caused by reinstating at waaaaay too high a dose probably (but I had no idea that that was recommended...certainly no doc told me that!)

 

This lead me to my question If I may: Having consulted my family and friends and read back over my diaries between November last year and May 2013 when I took that FIRST citalopram, (after being off seroxat for nearly four months) I have in fact come to the conclusion that much of my problems since may have been connected to the stop, start, stop, start, stop start habit that I got in to and wonder if instead of a severe protracted withdrawal from my taper and previous SSRI 'episode', in fact what I was experiencing was 'repeated' and 'ongoing' withdrawals in my very sensistised system from all of the chopping and changing (sparked off by that first tablet when I decided to 'go back on meds')

 

Looking back, I took my last dose in Feb and was NOT in March, April or May, suffering with the PHYSICAL stuff that I have been for the last few months....I was very depressed, I was disinterested in things, angry and irritable.  I moved back to London as I thought that missing my friends was a big factor and when i gotback, I felt wobbly and unsettled and missed my family...BUT I wonder now if that was related to just being raw with emotion.....I mean, even without a bad protracted withdrawal a person is likely to feel somewhat 'exposed' and vulnerable for a period after coming off meds....right?  

 

I think THAT was what drove me (STUPIDLY) to the GP that F**c***g day.....it has actually been only SINCE then that I have started to have panic, fear, anxiety, loss of appetite and the dreaded vibrations and heart pounding...is it possible that my system was still 'raw' from the previous meds and has therefore fought back in an attempt to achieve homeostasis and reacted badly with the sporadic manner that I decided to start and then stop over and over?

 

I could kick myself for going back to the GP in May after being off them and really not giving it a second thought till I had a bad day at work (and my life circumstances, I loved back to ireland five days prior) and decided I 'needed SSRI's again!!!!!!

 

That made me worry that I had a possible mental addiction to them and hence the reason I think I ended up attended several NA meetings (only to realise that it wasn't the right fit for me)  I think also, that the awful anxiety that I started to experience compounded things further and I started to sort of identify myself as an addict the more meetings I went to....in the silly hope that NA would somehow help alleviate the physical symptoms I was now starting to get....heart palps and vibrations in my body and extreme fear and sensitivity to loud noises.....

 

My sister and friends have told me that in March, April and May I was angry, irritable and fed up, but not anxious and not complaining of any physical difficulties, I had an appetite and could often be cheered up when I was low.....what do people think about the possible mental addiction to these things? I once thought I might have been addicted (mentally) but I hardly think so now....

 

NA was very welcoming and were keen to help but 75% of them were on meds too and certainly didn't recognise that I was (potentially) in withdrawal from even that small amount...they did their best and kept telling me to come to meetings and that we were all addicts....but I knew it wasn't quite right for me - despite being desperate...I just thought my depression was back, I was starting to lose the plot and that I had an addiciion on top of that....but I see now that no 12 step meeting is gonna deal with the physical aspect of this!!!!  No 12 step meeting is gonna help me when I am frightened out of my wits by the phone ringing just as CBT is not gonna help me or anyone else who is experiencing shocks in their arms and legs and is so frightened they are 'frozen' to their bed!

 

just wondering anyone's thoughts as looking back and having checked with my loved ones, I was doing okay ish.....makes me wonder what on earth made me go to the GP though....what do you think?  is a mental addiction possible?  I dont think so - we want to be OFF these things, right???!

 

SC x

[Altostrata]

We've all been brainwashed that we need psychiatric drugs to fix us and more is better. I wouldn't call that a mental addiction, but invalid assumptions.

[Sweetcreature]

Thanks Alto, what are your thoughts if you have any on the impact of the sporadic use of citalopram on my system over the last number of months...GP and lay people have said that taking one or taking two will not have 'had any effect' but I think we all know that is BS.

 

Glad you hold the view above - I had never considered it...

[Altostrata]

If your nervous system is destabilized by any inconsistent dosing, taking a psychoactive pill or two here and there, or having a drink, or even taking certain vitamins, is likely to cause odd symptoms.