Weebles2: Newly off Celexa, so discouraged

[weebles2]

After eight years on Celexa (citalopram) 40 mg, I reduced to 20 for a few weeks, then called my doc, who prescribed one week on Prozac 10 mg to ease withdrawal symptoms.  For the last two weeks I have been off antidepressants altogether and this morning, I am feeling awful and so hopeless.  I tried to ease the tension with 1/4 of a Xanax, and so now I am dizzy--make that dizzier--and nauseous.  Throw in an occasional chill.    

 

I think withdrawal has thrown my balance off, as I have tripped and fallen four times recently.  Which threw my back out, so I am seeing my chiropractor and have an appointment this Saturday with an occupational therapist for my first therapeutic massage.  Chiropractor prescribed a B Complex with every meal.  I started that Saturday. 

 

I feel flu-like with little appetite, dizzy, achy, and so, so tempted to open the Celexa bottle.  Sure could use some encouragement.  Has anyone out there gotten to the other side of this nightmare?  Any tips for surviving the symptoms described above?  TIA!

[mammaP]

Oh my, this is such a familiar story and it saddens me so much that doctors just don't have a clue

and give patients bad advice for tapering, leading to terrible withdrawal.  .

 Sadly the doctors are following the guidelines given to them by the drug companies who don't really

want you to stop taking their drugs! 

 

The only way to stop the symptoms is to reinstate the anti depressant.  You went from 40  to 20mg

for 2 weeks, then prozac for 1 week and 2 weeks off,  As it has only been 2 weeks off I think I 

would reinstate 5 mg and see if it helps. Quite often we can become sensitised and going back on

the full dose can cause more problems. It is better to start low and increase slowly if needed. 

Once you have stabilised and feeling better you can start a slow taper that could get you off the

drug while getting on with your life.  Celexa is available in a liquid which is easier to measure for tapering. 

 

None of us want to reinstate but it really can make a difference. Toughing it out just prolongs the agony! 

 

Here are some links for you to look at and get an understanding of what is happening to you. 

Tips for tapering celexa http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/page__pid__19887#entry19887

 

Why reinstate? http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

What is withdrawal syndrome? http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

It would help if you could put your drugs history, plus supplements,  in your signature. Here is how to do that. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

[Rhiannon]

I agree with everything mammaP has said so beautifully. Welcome to the forum; we do have the information and knowledge about tapering that your GP apparently lacks. 

 

At this point reinstating a small dose of citalopram should really help with your withdrawal symptoms. Once you're feeling stable and well you can then taper off the rest of it properly in a way that's more like riding down a bumpy hill than jumping off a cliff and crashing on the rocks.

 

If you're graph-literate, check out this paper:http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

and look at the graphs starting on page 4. You will see why I say that your GP lacks information and knowledge. The last part of a taper needs to go slowly, because receptor occupancy drops precipitously at that point.

 

Skim or read over the materials pinned at the top of the Tapering section, just to get an overview; and get yourself back on a small dose of citalopram to stop or at least cushion the withdrawal and give yourself some time to learn and educate yourself and prepare for a proper, safe, successful taper. 

 

We're glad you joined us and we hope to see you writing a success story one of these days.

[bubble]

Hello Weebles and welcome from me too.

 

After reading your story, there are 2 more things I'd like to add to the great advice you've been given. I see that you are relying on alternative methods to help you tough this out. This is so very familiar and exactly the same thing I did. Except that in my case it was breathing techniques, meditation, homeopathy... But the problem is that when we strip the drug that has become an integral part of our brains and has been like that for 8 years in your case, these things can't prevent withdrawal syndrome. I see your tendency to mobilise everything that could help, including the supplements. We've all done that. And very often we found that what helps a more or less "healthy" brain such as vitamins B can have adverse reactions and be overstimulating.

 

The second thing I wanted to add from my experience is that I was battling the withdrawal with all possible things I could think of for pretty long: some 45 days. But instead of the symptoms getting better, they got worse and resulted in an awful breakdown. I was scared out of my wits and reinstated. I was very lucky the reinstatement worked but it took me 4 months to feel alive again. I'm not saying this to scare you but to spare you of taking the route I went to. My symptoms were so harsh and disturbing I had no luxury not to reinstate but some people managed to last longer and reinstatement didn't work so they ended in something called prolonged withdrawal. The bottom line is that we are not talking about weeks or even months but years of suffering. Unless you end up on higher doses and more meds like you already started with xanax. 

 

So I would highly recommend you read the threads MammaP posted for you. I very much like the explanation of neurobiology that explains what happens in our brains when ADs enter them and when we try to abruptly yank them away. I warmly recommend the post before the last one in the thread here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6447-best-of-sa/

 

We will do our best to help with any questions you might have.

 

best,

bubble

[weebles2]

Thank you all for your prompt responses.  Out for lunch and running errands with my husband today, I got so, so sick.  Felt like the onset of stomach flu.  Having started the B complex Friday evening--my chiropractor recommended one with every meal!--I immediately stopped them and went to bed for several hours.  I also took about 10 mg Celexa and already feel just a tiny bit better.

 

I am eager to read the references you provided and begin a healthier, slower, safer route to a future without SSRI's and Xanax.  By the way, my psychiatrist readily prescribed Xanax back when I went on Celexa.  I have only played with it over the years but stepped up my intake this past week--half a tablet at bedtime--in an effort to sleep and feel a little better.

 

Thanks again!  I look forward to exploring this wonderful site, and to posting some positive results over time.  Blessings to all!

[mammaP]

I'm glad you felt a little better when you took the celexa, that is a good sign.

Please be careful with the xanax, it very quickly becomes addictive when taken regularly,

then you will need to taper that too!  

[bubble]

Weebles, as somebody who so stubbornly refused to get back on meds (I didn't even come here for long), I have to say I'm totally impressed with how little persuading you needed to make the good decision!

 

We know very well how hard it is for people to go back on meds but believe me, going back and doing it properly, that is as slow as your brain needs it, will take you the drug free life much sooner and enable you to carry on with your life.

 

I also experienced relief immediately upon reinstating and this is a great sign. But don't get discouraged if you don't immediately return to your pre "taper" functioning: your brain has been battered and it will take some time to recover so be gentle and patient with it and above all give it all the time in needs.While you are waiting you can educate yourself on how to do this properly. It's loads of information but I absolutely enjoyed it because it explained things I've been struggling with for many years.

 

And as MammaP said, and being a Xanax victim, please be very, very careful with Xanax. It's such a snake. It would be very good if you shared with us your experience with it. Will be good for you too to have it down in one place: how often and how much you were taking, also when you started it.

 

wishing you all the best and come here for all the questions you might have.

[weebles2]

This site is a haven; thanks so much for your input and encouragement. 

 

I reinstated at 10 mg but think, now, that was too much.  Should have gone with 5 mg as suggested above.  I just took the 10 mg (for the third day) about an hour ago and had to go back to bed feeling shaky and unwell.  Also, I have no appetite.  I do miss my love of coffee, ha.  Hopefully, this wave will pass in a few hours and I will have learned a valuable lesson. 

 

Have read a lot over the last few days and plan to work on my signature when this latest awfulness lifts a bit.  Is it common to wonder whether by some coincidence, you contracted a deadly disease around the time you decided to get off drugs?  What a blessing to know so many of us are in this together.  Thanks again! 

[weebles2]

Update:  Actually feeling much, much better on 10 mg after a few minutes of feeling dizzy/shaky following the dose.  Think I will keep it there (rather than 5 mg) for now. 

[Rhiannon]

Since you were on 40 mg before and just cut to 20 mg in May, 10 mg might work well for you now. But if you keep having bad reactions like that when you take it you might consider going with a smaller dose, 5 or even 8 if you can get the liquid or some other way to get the smaller dose (milligram scale, make your own liquid--instructions for both in the Tapering section).

 

You're likely to have some ongoing withdrawal/instability type symptoms for a while no matter what, because of what you've been through. Just observe and keep a daily journal of what you take when, and when you experience symptoms, so that if there's a pattern you will be able to distinguish it.

 

If the 10 mg does seem to be working then stick with it. It's best at this point to pick a dose and stick with it so that your brain chemistry can stabilize; the more we change our doses from day to day the more we just stir things up. Once you're stable you can begin a steady, slow taper.

 

I concur with the others about the trickiness of taking Xanax even intermittently. If you take it more than a couple of times a week you can develop "interdose" withdrawal symptoms which will aggravate your other withdrawal.  At any dosing schedule it can cause rebound anxiety as it wears off. It also has side effects that nobody ever tells you about. And it's very addictive and has to be tapered slowly if you develop dependence, which doesn't take long (daily use for just a few weeks will do it.) I agree with Bubble, it's a snake. 

 

Keep us posted about your plans and if you have any questions. Glad you're here, looking forward to your success!

[weebles2]

Another reaction to 10 mg Celexa has me planning to reduce to 5 next dose.  Immediately after the flushing, dizziness, and shaky legs ended, I felt great--back-to-normal great or maybe better!  That only lasted a couple of hours when a level of instability returned.  I'm encouraged to know what to expect, though, as I was warned this might happen.  The ups and downs of withdrawal are unbelievable. 

 

I can't say enough about this site; so, so thankful to find help.  Having read some other intros, I want to say best wishes to everyone struggling with meds! 

[Rhiannon]

Sounds good. Stick with the 5 mg now regardless of how the symptoms come and go, don't react by changing your dose. That will just aggravate the symptoms and delay the stabilizing process. It's going to be windows and waves for a while yet, but eventually you'll settle down on the 5 mg. It could take a few months, don't be discouraged, just come here and get pep talks whenever you need them. :-)

 

And read through the Symptoms and Self Care section, all the topics pinned at the top and the links in those topics, plus read through the various threads. You may find some helpful ideas there.

 

Good luck to you, please keep keeping us posted, and keep on keeping on!

[Rhiannon]

Oh and if you haven't yet, please get hold of a copy of Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. It's pretty much required reading for anyone who takes or has taken psych drugs.

[weebles2]

Going down to 5 mg seems better so far; still having a reaction but milder and more manageable.  When I went on Celexa eight years ago, I had to take it at night for awhile because of the side effects.  (Hello!  Should've seen THAT red flag!)  Now, when taking the reinstated dose in the morning, I go through daytime withdrawal symptoms, then start feeling better in the evening.  Would it make sense to switch to a nighttime, rather than morning, 5 mg dose, or would that only wreak more havoc?  If I can't make the sudden change, perhaps taking it an hour earlier each day until reaching bedtime?

 

Thanks for your help, for the book recommendation and for the referral to Symptoms and Self Care.  Sorry so many questions!  I hope to settle in at 5 mg and give it a few months now.

[Rhiannon]

I divide my daily dose of Celexa in half and take them 12 hours apart, to keep blood levels more steady. Is that something you can do? I'm working with liquid dosing.

[Rhiannon]

Also, again, symptoms should settle down gradually as you get to a regular dosing schedule, but you're going to have some withdrawal symptoms no matter what you do or don't do, and they may or may not correspond to when you take your meds.

 

The changes due to withdrawal play out over weeks and months, so what you're experiencing now may be due to something you did months ago, not something you did yesterday, and it's impossible to be sure (although over a long period of time, keeping a daily journal, you can distinguish some patterns eventually).

 

It's pretty common to feel worse early in the day and better later in the day, due to the diurnal variation in cortisol levels. We pretty much all get that at some point in the process.

[weebles2]

Didn't know; good to know.  Thank you.

[Jemima]

I can't add anything to the excellent advice you've gotten above, but I do want to emphasize that what 's happening to you in the morning is likely due to elevated cortisol levels, not from taking the drug in the morning. Trying Rhi's advice to take it in two doses may be helpful, though.  Celexa is a stimulant, like all SSRI antidepressants and of course, the cortisol is stimulating, so lessening the morning dose may help to relieve the morning symptoms, but as Rhi said, they won't go away altogether.

 

Welcome to the forum, weebles2.  I'm glad you found us and commend you on being willing to reinstate.  After you've read some stories of those who cold-turkeyed and refused to reinstate, you'll understand the pain you've avoided.

[weebles2]

Thanks for the suggestions to split the dose.  I might continue with just the morning, as going down to 5 mg was also excellent advice, and it's been a really good day.  That said, I know not to expect clear sailing from here on.  So, so thankful to have found this site after just two weeks off SSRI's; otherwise, I would not have known to reinstate, and do it at a smaller dose. 

[weebles2]

Oh!  And this did not even occur to me until today, but I have taken Excedrin Migraine frequently over a long period of time and have given that up as well.  Although I still suffer from headaches, they are manageable and overall, I feel much better off the OTC pain meds. 

[weebles2]

I just want to encourage anyone reluctant to reinstate, to just DO it.  I am not out of the woods yet with SSRI discontinuation, but reinstating to a small dose has allowed me to get on with my life while stabilizing.  Ultimately, I hope to go slowly from 5 mg citalopram to 0.  Slowly is the key.  So grateful that I found this site early in my withdrawal journey.  Already experiencing considerably more windows than waves.

 

Best wishes!

 

By the way, I had my first therapeutic massage (by an occupational therapist) this past Saturday and found it to be very relaxing and helpful.  I was sore the next day, but it was a 'good' sore, and I've had no adverse side effects from it so far.  I'm sure individuals differ with results, but has anyone else found massage to be a plus?  I plan to go back.

[Petunia]

Thank you for the encouraging update Weebles, I'm glad that you are feeling better after reinstating.

[weebles2]

I just read on this site about the drug interaction between Celexa and Omeprazole, both of which I had been taking.  Scary.  Although down to 5 mg Celexa, I skipped the Omeprazole this morning.  What to do?  Is an OTC antacid such as Pepcid Complete okay?  TIA. 

[bubble]

Hi weebles,

 

I-m very, very happy about your progress.

 

I don't really have an answer to your question but I'm looking forward to reading an answer to your question by somebody who does.

 

I've recently developed GI issues, for the first time in my life after two course of an ATB for a nasty bladder infection. I was advised to take an acid blocker but after reading that people have to taper those ones too, I simply decided to give it a miss and explore changing the diet to manage the symptoms.

 

So I didn't have to read this thread but maybe you will find it useful: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4361-tips-for-tapering-off-stomach-acid-blockers-or-ppis-esomeprazole-lansoprazole-omeprazole/

 

Following a strict diet of only bland cooked food made my symptoms go away after 2 weeks. Then I made a mistake of stopping the diet so the symptoms returned but at least now I know what to do and I'm still investigating how to manage this without meds.

 

best,

bubble

[weebles2]

Update:  After a month or so on 5 mg citalopram, I started feeling worse after taking it--hot flushes, dizziness, rapid heartbeat.  Today I shaved off a bit and am feeling much, much better.  Could be coincidental with a window; I guess time will tell.  I started feeling impatient this week and wanted to go cold turkey to be DONE with this.  A revisit to this amazing site prevented that huge mistake!  It also reminded me that my symptoms are consistent with SSRI withdrawal.  During those moment when I feel like death, I wonder...

 

I started seeing a massage therapist--her degree is in occupational therapy--and after my third visit, feel better on that front, too.  Was experiencing a lot of muscle pain and tension in lower back (burning pain there, never had it before), neck and shoulders.  She backed off on the pressure yesterday and focused on my shoulders, neck and arm muscles with a small amount of leg stretches.  This is the first 'day after massage' that I feel somewhat energetic.  Some of us may need a more gentle massage than normal, considering all that our bodies are going through.  Perhaps it helps one person and not the next.

 

Still trying to figure out a good omeprazole taper.  I consulted the thread and might be getting the pill cutter out for those.  I swore off B Complex after it made me sick, early in withdrawal, but am concerned that my B12 is nil.  Tempted to cut a B caplet in half and give it another try.   

[Altostrata]

Instead of taking a supplement, I would reduce the omeprazole first and let your body absorb B vitamins from food as it was meant to.

[weebles2]

Thanks, Altostrata.  Will find a way to reduce it.

 

A dear friend of mine has RA.  Very recently, the steroid she was taking for her eyesight was reduced by 50%.  Along with the common side effects listed for steroid withdrawal, she developed a horrible cough which doctors are diagnosing as asthma, despite the fact that typical asthma treatment is not helping much.

 

I searched but couldn't find anything about steroid withdrawal on this site--probably because I don't know which steroid she was taking and can't search by name.  Has anyone heard of asthma-like symptoms from sudden steroid reduction (by half)?  My friend sometimes thinks she's dying.  TIA.

 

I should probably post this to a more appropriate thread...?

[Rhiannon]

Hi Weebles, just checking in to see how you're doing--sounds like you're doing pretty well, stabilized and able to cut your 5 mg a bit. 

 

It might be time to look into either getting the prescription liquid or making your own. Alternatively you can use a milligram scale, but liquid is easier and more precise and at the lowest doses it can be really tricky to measure those tiny bits of pill.

 

Onward and upward!

 

I don't know anything about steroid withdrawal, I'm sorry...

[Altostrata]

I'm sure if you Googled you'd find many discussions of steroid withdrawal symptoms. They need to be tapered, too.

[Rhiannon]

weebles, update us if you're still around...would love to know how you're doing now.

[weebles2]

Platinum star, thanks for asking.  I totally weaned off citalopram mid-September of this year and felt pretty well for a couple of weeks.  Then I awoke one morning with dread and anxiety, and have not been able to shake it.  Last week I called my psych and asked to be reinstated on a different drug.  She started me on 50 mg Zoloft (I know, I know), which proved too strong.  On my own I cut back to 25 mg, which seemed to take care of most of the side effects, and am starting to feel some better with lower anxiety and dread.  Incidentally, since starting Zoloft my lower back pain has improved markedly; not sure why.

 

I doubt anyone here would recommend reinstating to a different SSRI after weaning off another, so I'm not sure whether I'm helping or harming with this confession.  I suspect my desperation will be well understood, though.

 

Just before reinstating I saw a nutrition coach, bought some supplements and protein shake mix, started on those and within two days felt very sick.  Supplements contained quite a bit of B so I'm thinking that was the culprit.  Although today I ate half a protein bar and experienced nausea within half an hour.  Bottom line is, the advice on this site about natural supplements is spot on.  Start slow, with a fraction of the recommended dose, and add one item at a time.  I learned the hard way.  One of the supplements, though, is a good quality fish oil.  The coach started me on six/day(!)  I quit them cold turkey when I got so sick but am now slowly reinstating those to one a day, as I do think they will be beneficial. 

[Rhiannon]

Yes, I think we all can relate to that desperation. And most of us have been through that merry go round of on and off and changing meds, more than once!

 

And I definitely can relate to the impatience to come off. A lot of people get caught by that one and go too fast or CT at too high a dose. It's not at all uncommon. Sadly, it rarely ends well.

 

I'm glad you went with the lower dose. Maybe you'll want to taper off, or down, someday, and it will be easier from the lower dose. If you do choose to decrease the Zoloft eventually (certainly not any time soon!) please come back here first so you can do a slow taper. The more times we go on and off meds, the more sensitive we seem to become, so it's all the more important.