apace41: tapering Zoloft / sertraline

[apace41]

8 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

I've been in a wave for the last month or more, however now that I am feeling a little better I wanted to stop by and thank you.  I had posted about steroids and you were kind enough to respond when I needed to hear from a moderator.  Your thoughtful answer was important for me to hear.  Like I said I am coming out of a wave, and I will be holding for a quite a while before I taper again.

 

RS,

 

So glad you are starting to see improvement.  I'm glad to have helped you and really appreciate your coming by to thank me.  Very sweet of you.  Holding for now seems wise to me.

 

8 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

've been reading your thread and it appears that you are currently in a wave yourself, or at least you were a week or two ago.  I hope you manage to come out quickly.  These symptoms we suffer are so excruciating.

 

I've held off on an update for a while, but your post has prompted me to do so.  I don't really love updating when things continue to suck, but it's certainly the right thing to do for purposes of chronicling what is happening, so here goes:

 

I continue to hold at 7ml/14mg of Sertraline.  I am now almost 3 full years off of Clonazapam after a 2 year microtaper using liquid reduction.  I am very symptomatic and continue to have a hard time understanding where it is all coming from.  In other words, I don't know what is from the benzo, what is from the SSRI and what is from age, diet, etc.  It is very confounding for me and, while there is a good school of thought that says it doesn't really matter where it comes from as the passage of time is really the way out, for some reason my obsessive thinking these days at least partially centers our the source of the discomfort.  In no particular order, here are the list of things that are issues for me at this stage:

 

• Sleep:  I seem to go through different periods with sleep.  Starting last spring (2016) when I had a period of virtually complete insomnia, I have ranged from pretty decent sleep (6-7 hours a night, largely unbroken) to very poor sleep (up every night for a couple of hours and a total of 4-5 max of sleep).  Within that range, I have had periods of perhaps a couple of months where the pattern sets and then shifts to something else.  After a period from June through July where I was getting about 6 hours of decent sleep most nights with a few nights of 7+, I have slipped back to where I got to be at any time (10-12 doesn't matter) and I still wake up at 2 or so, see the clock, and usually fall back asleep waking up again at somewhere around 4-5 when I find it hard to fall back again.  Most nights I'm getting 5-5.5 hours or so of somewhat broken sleep.  It's not horrific but it's also not refreshing.  I've tried a couple of sleep aids (melatonin, hydroxyzine, etc.) but they are inconsistent and sometimes paradoxical.  Needless to say, I'd like some improvement

• Hip Pain:  My body is in a lot of pain a lot of the time.  I have continuous pain in both hips and groin area which has been attributed to osteoarthritis of the hip.  I do not believe that would account for this level of discomfort on a regular basis -- rather, I believe that the predisposition is there and the drugs have created a maelstrom in my hips.  Having read several threads of people (MammaP comes to mind) who have seen the drugs destroy their joints and muscles, I am not going to take any action (e.g. hip replacement) until w/d is over and done with for a while. 

• Other Pain:  I get random pains that shoot through my body on a relatively constant basis.  These range from my left arm and shoulder and elbow to my chest, between my shoulder blades, occasionally my right arm and, yesterday, my left wrist.  I get pain in both legs and occasionally in the knees.  This is not "normal" pain like when you lift weights and it is sore.  This is a stabbing pain that comes out of nowhere, stays for a while and then travels somewhere else.  It is bizarre, annoying and very triggering for me because of my...

• Health Anxiety:  I have tried a lot of different programs and CBT-based approaches but it is very hard for me to stop associating the pain, especially on the left side and the ones in my neck and head (forgot to mention those  ), with some kind of imminent cardiovascular event (heart attack or stroke).  It is very annoying and frustrating because on a logical level I know how I WANT to think but my broken brain won't let me.  I have had numerous tests, some of which were regularly scheduled, some of which were impromptu at my request, all of which show no risk in that area.  E.g., clean EKG, excellent stress echocardiogram, very good doppler blood flow testing, lipid profile excellent.  In short, there is no OBJECTIVE reason for me to think these things but the combination of my father's history (see earlier posts if you are interested) along with the obsessive thinking I can only attribute to the meds, leave me constantly in a state of anxiety over these issues.  I continue to work at it but I think that until my brain heals to a certain point all the CBT in the world ain't going to fix me

• Dp/Dr:  One of the most challenging symptoms of all, this one seems to wax and wane for me but never totally go away.  I think it is improving to some degree but whenever I think that I get hit with a round of it and I think I'm back to square 1.  There are lots of times that I will be walking on the streets and the people do not seem totally "real" to me.  I've gotten better at not letting it freak me out and I'm working in one-on-one conversations to try to be present and really "connect" with people as a means of working through the issue.  I think I've gotten better at that piece but like the Health Anxiety, I suspect that it is just a matter of where my brain is right now and it will simply take more time to heal

• .Lack of Motivation:  It is hard for me to say it is "anhedonia" as there are still things in my life that get me motivated (especially my kids), but I am finding it hard to really get motivated to care a lot about anything such as work, travel, friends, etc.  I suppose it is understandable that disengagement is a way of dealing with the frustration of this process but it is SO unlike me.  Even my sports teams, which I continue to watch, don't bring out the passion in me that they use to.  I suspect this will return once I start to turn a corner, but it is quite annoying.  For a long time I was a huge health advocate and really focused on how to be healthier.  I am no longer motivated by that to the same degree as I have the sense that it has made very little difference in my recovery and, in essence, I feel like my interest in the subject has been "beaten out of me" by the withdrawal process.

• Depression and Anxiety:  This may be incorporated in the other things I've said but I find myself having some generalize anxiety, i.e., where the cortisol surges out of nowhere and you find yourself anxious for no apparent reason (I'm sure NOBODY can relate to this -- LOL).  I also find myself very down about how far my life has slid over the past several years.  It has been fairly dramatic for me from last December to now.  I recall my trip to Captiva in December/January and feeling pretty good, having some fun while still limited, sleeping well and overall living at about 60-75%.  Not great but manageable.  It has been a slow downward slide since then without a whole lot of positives to hang onto.  Not hard to see why that is depressing but in the interest of completeness I mention it.

• Brain Fog:  I am still able to function at a pretty high level in my job but I do feel "heavy-headed" and "foggy" on a pretty regular basis.  Sort of like seeing the world through a film which kind of spills over into dp/dr.  I think much of this is due to the cumulative lack of sleep and that if I can get that back on track I will see improvements in the mental space.

• Inability to Try Anything:  I am terribly frustrated by the fact that my CNS seems to be so sensitive right now that I am unable to try any of the potential aides I would like to try.  For example, the FDA recently approved a machine called "Quell" which is a form of TENS machine that you wear on your calf where it sends signals to the spine/brain and results in release of opioid chemicals.  81% of people with chronic pain who tried it saw improvement.  I thought "perhaps this can help my pain."  I tried it for 2 days but it was too activating for me and I found myself, even on the lowest level, getting nerve pain in my leg where it was worn.  I decided to leave well enough alone.  Similarly, at my integrative docs suggestion I tried Low Dose Naltrexone but, again, I found myself being increasingly symptomatic after taking it.  I can't say for sure if there was a direct causation, but in the "first do no harm" category I decided to stop that as well.  The inability to do something to help myself in this regard is very frustrating.  Before I get a cadre of comments regarding meditation, visualization, breathing, yoga, etc., I am still working on all of those and have mixed results.  I was just hoping that I might find something in the nature of a machine, supplement or pill that might ease the process.  I guess in my heart I knew better but a guy can try, right?

 

I could keep on going but this is long already and whining won't achieve anything.  It is a long process -- way too long -- and I'm hoping to start to see the graph hit bottom and start to move up sometime soon.  I'm pretty exhausted from all this.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by apace41

[RachelSusan]

Andy,

Thank you for updating us as to your situation.  I read other people's posts to find out how they are truly doing, but also to educate myself.  I tend to gravitate to the people that are withdrawing from the same SSRI that I am trying to get off of. I too am very symptomatic. Because I have other medical conditions going on I sometimes don't know what symptoms of mine are from withdrawal or perhaps one of my other conditions. It helps for me to read what you are going through since we are both dealing with Zoloft, so please don't feel you are whining or that it won't achieve anything.  I assume there are many others on this site that want to hear for both reasons I stated, caring about your progress and learning. You are helping us by sharing.  You are right, it is a way to long process.  I too hope your graph starts to go up very soon. 

44 minutes ago, apace41 said:

could keep on going but this is long already and whining won't achieve anything.  It is a long process -- way too long -- and I'm hoping to start to see the graph hit bottom and start to move up sometime soon.  I'm pretty exhausted from all this.

 

[apace41]

Thanks so much, RS.  I appreciate your response.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Shep]

47 minutes ago, apace41 said:

  I'm pretty exhausted from all this.

 

I "hear" you on this part, Andy, as I'm feeling the same way due to the length of the journey. 

 

Your narrative describing your journey is important and like Rachel says, helpful for the rest of us. I follow your reporting of your dp/dr symptoms, so knowing that you are having these symptoms but are still able to think clearly enough to work is very helpful to know. One of my greatest fears is succumbing to cognitive decline, like countless other people who are drugged with antipsychotics and benzos.  I thought for a long time that dp/dr and cognitive decline might somehow be connected. But I'm beginning to think they are completely separate issues, although dp/dr can definitely cause some mental haze.

 

1 hour ago, apace41 said:

The inability to do something to help myself in this regard is very frustrating.  Before I get a cadre of comments regarding meditation, visualization, breathing, yoga, etc., I am still working on all of those and have mixed results.  I was just hoping that I might find something in the nature of a machine, supplement or pill that might ease the process.  I guess in my heart I knew better but a guy can try, right?

 

 

This made me think of this post from the thread:

 

 What is happening in your brain?

 

 

On 12/26/2015 at 2:37 PM, Altostrata said:

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 
And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the building is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes.
(Now look at the new Tower that stands at Ground Zero!  It's taller, [...], and a symbol of freedom.  JUST like you will be!  )

 

 

I found this analogy very helpful during this past wave as I try to imagine the parts of my mind and body that are struggling as being in a sort of "re-build" phase and thinking that the wave will bring on baseline healing in some parts while others are still under renovation. It helps understand the randomness of symptoms. 

 

And I'm wondering if maybe that's why trying this supplement or that pill or that machine doesn't work - everything is changing and moving all of the time. For someone with health anxiety, this has got to be brutal. 

 

Anyways, I'm starting to ramble, but wanted to share that piece of the "what is happening in your brain" post. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. I hope you see some improvements soon. 

 

 

[apace41]

6 minutes ago, Shep said:

Your narrative describing your journey is important and like Rachel says, helpful for the rest of us. I follow your reporting of your dp/dr symptoms, so knowing that you are having these symptoms but are still able to think clearly enough to work is very helpful to know. One of my greatest fears is succumbing to cognitive decline, like countless other people who are drugged with antipsychotics and benzos.  I thought for a long time that dp/dr and cognitive decline might somehow be connected. But I'm beginning to think they are completely separate issues, although dp/dr can definitely cause some mental haze.

 

Thanks, as always for your thoughts, Shep.  It makes me feel good that my post is of help to others -- thanks to you and RS for the reminder.

 

You are not going to succumb to cognitive decline from the drugs.  Whether it affects you way down the road or not is a different questions and one that we all have in the back of our minds I suspect.  But, in the short term, the fact that you have seen so much improvement is a clear indicator that you are heading in the right direction.  As father-in-law (of blessed memory) would frequently say, "if you were a stock, I'd be buying."

 

It's funny that you mention that "World Trade Tower" post as I think of it frequently to try to make sense of the cyclical and traveling nature of the symptoms.  Thanks for sharing again.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Junglechicken]

Hi Andy,

 

Just letting you know I've read through your update and will reply properly tomorrow afternoon (UK time)! 

 

I have an interview in the morning, so my brain ends up being engaged in that about 95% of the time.

 

Best,

JC

[apace41]

7 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

Just letting you know I've read through your update and will reply properly tomorrow afternoon (UK time)! 

 

I have an interview in the morning, so my brain ends up being engaged in that about 95% of the time.

 

By all means, JC, save your brain for your interview!  My situation can certainly wait until tomorrow.  After all, it's Groundhog Day for me every day!

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Junglechicken]

Andy,

 

I just mean I can take my time and write you a proper response rather than something rushed.

 

Its hard to focus on anything much knowing there is an interview the next day, however, I wanted you to know that I had read through your update and will respond in detail tomorrow when my mind is freed up again!

 

JC

[apace41]

I understood your intent, JC, and I'm fully supportive of your focusing on your interview as a priority.  I appreciate the fact that you read my post and that you care enough to respond (and to want to have a clear mind to do so).

 

Best to you on the interview,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

Hi Andy:

 

I'm sorry you are going through such a rough time. I hope a HUGE window opens for you soon.

 

I am too. As you know. Hopefully we will get good news Sat at the vet.

 

I have a question for you. I hope you can answer. What is a good quality Milk Thistle and I think it shouldn't be over 125mg? What do you think?

 

Thanks!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[apace41]

Thanks for visiting, Frogie.  

 

I don't have a milk thistle recommendation since I've never taken it.

 

Hopefully, someone else will have an idea.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

2 minutes ago, apace41 said:

Thanks for visiting, Frogie.  

 

I don't have a milk thistle recommendation since I've never taken it.

 

Hopefully, someone else will have an idea.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Thanks Andy:

 

I was just going to say why on earth was I posting this on your thread and not mine?

 

That's how my mind has been working lately, it hasn't.

 

Thanks...

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Blondiee1915]

Hi Andy, 

 

I just read your update.  I have many similar symptoms as you already know.  Thank you for keeping track and such detailed description of your symptoms it is actually helping me to relate, understand and realize I am not the only one.  The health anxiety, DP/DR, dizziness, and just the feeling of not being rested is pretty much me on the regular basis.  I also find myself obsessing over the cause of my current condition.  Is it anxiety, depression, some unknown illness, withdrawal, medication and it goes on and on.  When things are a bit better (usually on the weekends) I tend to worry less.  But in the end I feel like I have no other option but to continue with my journey and I truly believe I will feel much better with time.  

 

I am sorry you are struggling with pain as well.  I have not read your earlier posts but have you tried physical therapy?  (you probably have).  The reason I am suggesting is it might be helpful in the exercise level.  For instance, I too struggle with self motivation and it is like a vicious circle.  I am tired and achy I do not exercise, I do not exercise so I get more tired and achy.  So when you get yourself to the PT place you have someone to "push" you and make you do these things and you can't just quit and not do it, and then who knows after you might feel better.  

 

You should be proud of yourself for working a full time job and functioning,  and being a husband and a father with all these other responsibilities.  Do you take some time for yourself so you can rest and do something that you enjoy (or try to enjoy) doing?  I feel like you take care of everything and everyone including people here and I hope you take time for yourself too.  I am realizing now how crucial it is to say no sometimes and just be, not to criticize myself for not doing enough (constant struggle) or being not good enough.  Whenever I do too much few days later my body feels it in a not so good way.  

 

I wish you continuing healing Andy.  I sure hope things will start looking better in the near future.  

 

B. 

 

 

[Flowers]

Hi Andy

 

Thank you for updating us on how you are doing.  

 

This year hasn't been great for either of us but we are still here plodding along and just maybe next year will be better.

 

In spite of all your symptoms you still keep going and do your best at work and at home. That is a true testament to your strength of character.

 

WD is horrible but with health anxiety thrown in must be exaggerated to a frightening degree. 

 

I think about you and others I have met on here everyday and can only hope that things improve for the better soon.

 

Keep going my friend.

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

[apace41]

14 hours ago, Blondiee1915 said:

I just read your update.  I have many similar symptoms as you already know.  Thank you for keeping track and such detailed description of your symptoms it is actually helping me to relate, understand and realize I am not the only one.  The health anxiety, DP/DR, dizziness, and just the feeling of not being rested is pretty much me on the regular basis.  I also find myself obsessing over the cause of my current condition.  Is it anxiety, depression, some unknown illness, withdrawal, medication and it goes on and on.  When things are a bit better (usually on the weekends) I tend to worry less.  But in the end I feel like I have no other option but to continue with my journey and I truly believe I will feel much better with time.  

 

Thanks for visiting, Blondiee.  Yes, you and I are sharing a lot of this hell together.  It sucks but not being alone is a good thing.  I can only hope for us that we start to see real recovery soon.

 

14 hours ago, Blondiee1915 said:

I am sorry you are struggling with pain as well.  I have not read your earlier posts but have you tried physical therapy?  (you probably have).  The reason I am suggesting is it might be helpful in the exercise level.  For instance, I too struggle with self motivation and it is like a vicious circle.  I am tired and achy I do not exercise, I do not exercise so I get more tired and achy.  So when you get yourself to the PT place you have someone to "push" you and make you do these things and you can't just quit and not do it, and then who knows after you might feel better.  

 

I see a PT who works with me on both vestibular rehabilitation (which helps with the dizziness -- it is largely subjective and not objective and this helps with habituation) as well as working with the body.  I also see an acupuncturist and have weekly massage (but it is more like a wrestling match as my therapist works hard to release trigger points).  Sometimes I wonder if all the stimulation of the muscles and joints creates more pain but I continue in any event.  I work out at least a couple of times a week -- usually 3 giving myself a day off inbetween -- and while it makes me sore for a while I believe it is better than remaining sedentary (since I have heart related health anxiety if I were sedentary it would probably just kick up my fears).  I appreciate your thoughts -- as Shep has pointed out to me, I think the best approach would probably be for me to look into more aquatic based exercise to reduce the stress on the body.

 

14 hours ago, Blondiee1915 said:

You should be proud of yourself for working a full time job and functioning,  and being a husband and a father with all these other responsibilities.  Do you take some time for yourself so you can rest and do something that you enjoy (or try to enjoy) doing?  I feel like you take care of everything and everyone including people here and I hope you take time for yourself too.  I am realizing now how crucial it is to say no sometimes and just be, not to criticize myself for not doing enough (constant struggle) or being not good enough.  Whenever I do too much few days later my body feels it in a not so good way.  

 

That is very sweet of you to say, Blondiee.  I am working hard in therapy and self-help to be more self-compassionate and to be less of a "people pleaser."  I tend to subvert myself for the benefit of others and while that gets me the dopamine hit of "thank you" I guess I'm seeking on some level, it wears me out over time.  It is a bit of a struggle as you say but I am trying to find more ways to be good to myself.  If I had more interest in things a hobby might be a good thing and I did a little gardening this summer, but right now model airplanes and the like don't seem to be very enticing.

 

14 hours ago, Blondiee1915 said:

 

I wish you continuing healing Andy.  I sure hope things will start looking better in the near future

 

I wish the same for you my kindred soul.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[apace41]

Thanks for the visit Flowers.  You are so lovely.

 

3 hours ago, Flowers said:

This year hasn't been great for either of us but we are still here plodding along and just maybe next year will be better.

 

Fingers and toes are crossed!

 

3 hours ago, Flowers said:

In spite of all your symptoms you still keep going and do your best at work and at home. That is a true testament to your strength of character.

 

Thank you for saying that, Flowers.  Very nice of you.

 

3 hours ago, Flowers said:

WD is horrible but with health anxiety thrown in must be exaggerated to a frightening degree. 

 

It's a daily battle I'm waging against myself to be honest.  As you know, withdrawal comes with the strangest of symptoms and when you are in a state where each symptom seems to portend something catastrophic, well... that speaks for itself.  I am doing my best to work through it and fortunately I'm able to work which allows me to pay for all the therapy bills and self-help books!  

 

Best to you, Flowers.

 

Andy

[brassmonkey]

Hey Andy-- now that we are approaching the end of the year (where the heck did it all go????) it's time to start making year end plans.  I'm  guessing that you will be making your annual trip to Florida again this year.  If you are, make me this promise, that you'll schedule two days for the drive home and not do it in one long marathon. I don't want to see you repeat the crashes that followed the last several years drives.  You've been making slow but good progress all year and don't need the setbacks.  It makes for a rough way to end a good vacation.

 

I'm pulling for ya.

[apace41]

3 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

If you are, make me this promise, that you'll schedule two days for the drive home and not do it in one long marathon. I don't want to see you repeat the crashes that followed the last several years drives. 

 

Thanks for your thoughts and input, Tom.  I do in fact make this promise.  This year is very different as a result of my father-in-law's passing.  My wife will be with my mother-in-law on the East coast of Florida for much of the time preceding our annual trip so she is probably going to drive from the East coast to the West coast (with a car that is already down there) and, as a result, I expect that I will be flying with the remainder of the family.  I may rent a car down there if we need more transportation (depends on the number of friends and boyfriends my 3 girls have visit) but don't expect the 17 hour journey this year.

 

I will miss the solitude but not the wear and tear.  

 

Thank you again, my friend.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

26 minutes ago, apace41 said:

 

Thanks for your thoughts and input, Tom.  I do in fact make this promise.  This year is very different as a result of my father-in-law's passing.  My wife will be with my mother-in-law on the East coast of Florida for much of the time preceding our annual trip so she is probably going to drive from the East coast to the West coast (with a car that is already down there) and, as a result, I expect that I will be flying with the remainder of the family.  I may rent a car down there if we need more transportation (depends on the number of friends and boyfriends my 3 girls have visit) but don't expect the 17 hour journey this year.

 

I will miss the solitude but not the wear and tear.  

 

Thank you again, my friend.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Hi Andy:

 

I'm really sorry you are going through a rough time. I know you hear that from everyone, but I really mean it.

 

As bad off as you are/were, you always have/had time for me. I want to thank you so much for being there for me when I needed you.

 

I will always be greatful for you.

 

Oh, and don't think you are getting rid of me lol...

 

You truly are a life saver.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[apace41]

1 minute ago, Frogie said:

As bad off as you are/were, you always have/had time for me. I want to thank you so much for being there for me when I needed you.

 

I will always be greatful for you.

 

Thanks so much, Frogie.  It makes me feel good to know I helped you.

 

1 minute ago, Frogie said:

Oh, and don't think you are getting rid of me lol...

 

LOL.  Not going anywhere.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Frogie]

Just now, apace41 said:

 

Thanks so much, Frogie.  It makes me feel good to know I helped you.

 

 

LOL.  Not going anywhere.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Good to know, because you know me. I'll need you for something.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[bromor]

Oh my friend.  I feel you.  I feel the health anxiety, the pain for no stinking reason. The surges/fear then depression.  I still struggle even with the great tools that I have.  I go through weeks of no symptoms & feel incredible.  Then, I get sick... acute bronchitis... so bad I need an inhaler.  So starts the health anxiety of feeling like I can't breathe even after I'm better. UGH!! 

 

So ~ I don't have any magic words.  Just know that others do understand.  You will get through this.  Our bodies are created to heal.  Even if all you can do is repeat that to yourself over and over. 

 

Much love.

[apace41]

15 minutes ago, bromor said:

Much love

 

Right back at you, B.  Thanks for the visit.

 

I was just thinking of you because Barry McDonough just released the D.A.R.E. Workbook.  Made me think of you.  

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Junglechicken]

On ‎03‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 4:41 PM, apace41 said:

I understood your intent, JC, and I'm fully supportive of your focusing on your interview as a priority.  I appreciate the fact that you read my post and that you care enough to respond (and to want to have a clear mind to do so).

 

Best to you on the interview,

 

Andy

 

I'm seeing the doc this afternoon about a female "issue"so once again my mind is cluttered - ughh!

 

Haven't forgotten about you Andy, its frustrating as I have had a lot of catching up to do on personal stuff including housework.

 

With any luck I'll have a clear enough head over the weekend.

 

Best,

JC

[apace41]

No worries, JC.  Hope things are ok at the doc.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[apace41]

Another update, unfortunately this one is to indicate I've hit a significant snag.  As a short summary, I am 3 years off klonipin after a 2 year taper and 3 years into a sertraline taper that took me from 100mg to 14mg where I have been holding for the past 6 or 7 weeks.  All of this after 20+ years on both meds.  Until recently things  were not great but not horrible as I have chronicled in my thread.  Late last week and into this week things have taken a strange turn for the worse without any clear reason why.  

 

Late last week I started getting very strong but somewhat random chest pains.  I had been recently checked by my cardio so I was confident that it was not heart related.  That quickly morphed into horrible back pain between the shoulder blades alternating with the chest pain.  Between last week and today the pain has continued to spread so that I am getting random shooting pains in various parts of my body on a regular basis, ranging from the chest and back to my left arm and wrist, both sides of my neck, under the rib cage, kidney area, bottom of the right foot, left ankle, and others I'm forgetting for now.  They are not constant but they are sharp and feel like pin prick or knives and are very uncomfortable.  At the same time, I am finding as of the past day plus that when I get the pain between the shoulder blades (in particular) it leads to a very strong sense of panic that does not seem to be coming from my brain, i.e., the body is having panic almost without the brain joining in (I know that sounds odd but that's the best I can describe it).  When that occurs I have a short burst of profuse sweating and then it takes a while for it to come back to normal.  

 

Tuesday and yesterday I got significant waves of this at 4PM and 8PM and I thought it was perhaps tied to circadian rhythms or something I ate, but last night it kept coming at me all night and I got only about 1.5 hours of sleep.  Today, I woke up with it and it keeps coming over me in these waves which have not seemed to want to relent.  In short, it feels like it is getting worse rather than better.  There has been no real let-up as I post this in the late afternoon.  Every time it seems it may lift another wave swoops in to replace the one that was there.  I feel very ill right now.

 

I'm wondering what people think might be a course of action to take here.  Should I be thinking about an updose?  Is it just a matter of powering my way through this with the expectation that this will be relatively short-lived as it must have been triggered by something?  I'm feeling very anxious about this and hoping it goes away as quickly as it came because I'm struggling to deal with this.

 

I can't imagine it's anything other than withdrawal but given my recent tendency toward health anxiety the mind can run away very easily.

 

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

Best,

 

Andy

Edited October 12, 2017 by apace41

[Flowers]

Hi Andy

 

What you are going through sounds awful and I understand how worrying these pains especially in the chest area are. I am glad you have been recently checked out by your cardiologist and all was fine but would you feel better if you went along to your Dr and had another check up?  If your symptoms started after your recent check up I would be wanting to see my Dr for peace of mind. 

 

Does it feel like sharp nerve pain?  I have had sharp almost like shooting/stabbing  pains in my back but not for a long time. I have read of others getting stabbing pains in their feet. These pains may be  increasing your anxiety and making you sweat.

 

I know you haven't been that great all this year but have continued to taper. I remember I asked you about this  - as to why you were continuing to taper when you weren't that good. You said that you hoped that as the drug was reduced you would start to feel better. Overhaul has this been the case or have you been feeling worse?

 

I am not a moderator but feel if you have not seen any improvement and  have been  holding for all these weeks it may be appropriate to do a slight updose.  

 

Just my take on things but I am no expert.   This must be very debilitating for you so hope whatever you do it goes away soon. I am sure the other mods will come along soon with their advice.

 

Love from Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

[apace41]

7 minutes ago, Flowers said:

I am glad you have been recently checked out by your cardiologist and all was fine but would you feel better if you went along to your Dr and had another check up?  If your symptoms started after your recent check up I would be wanting to see my Dr for peace of mind.

 

Thanks Flowers.  I had a clean stress test in the spring (at a level they said was equivalent to someone 20 years younger) and just had an EKG in September with a full checkup.  In addition, for an unrelated matter I had an arteriogram in my arm (plus aorta) showed that my arteries were what they labeled "pristine" with no sign of arteriosclerosis.  Given that this kind of pain (albeit less frequently) was what led me to get the EKG and all of that information I don't think there is a cardiac issue going on here.  (You may ask then "why do you have health anxiety about this issue? -- LOL).

 

11 minutes ago, Flowers said:

Does it feel like sharp nerve pain?  I have had sharp almost like shooting/stabbing  pains in my back but not for a long time. I have read of others getting stabbing pains in their feet. These pains may be  increasing your anxiety and making you sweat.

 

Yes, yes and yes!  I think that may well be a part of it, although the sweating may be part of the autonomic dysregulation that is taking place in my body.  Temperature as normalized by the hypothalmus is clearly "on the fritz."  

 

13 minutes ago, Flowers said:

I know you haven't been that great all this year but have continued to taper. I remember I asked you about this  - as to why you were continuing to taper when you weren't that good. You said that you hoped that as the drug was reduced you would start to feel better. Overhaul has this been the case or have you been feeling worse?

 

No.  I did not improve as I got lower hence the reason for continuing to hold.

 

14 minutes ago, Flowers said:

I am not a moderator but feel if you have not seen any improvement and  have been  holding for all these weeks it may be appropriate to do a slight updose.

 

That's a helpful perspective Flowers.  I'm going to see what others think and then make a decision.

 

15 minutes ago, Flowers said:

This must be very debilitating for you so hope whatever you do it goes away soon.

 

It is very frustrating and has become debilitating in the past day and a half.  Hopefully, it will lift soon.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Martina23]

Hm, that is strange, Andy. You may try small updose, then you will at least see if it has something to do with withdrawal. If it is nerve pain, it can be withdrawal related but can't it be that you overworked yourself with something? Too much exercise or you slept in unfavourable position and some nerve got stuck or narrowed down  somewhere? (Sorry for English, I am not a native speaker)

[apace41]

3 minutes ago, Martina23 said:

Hm, that is strange, Andy. You may try small updose, then you will at least see if it has something to do with withdrawal. If it is nerve pain, it can be withdrawal related but can't it be that you overworked yourself with something? Too much exercise or you slept in unfavourable position and some nerve got stuck or narrowed down  somewhere? (Sorry for English, I am not a native speaker)

 

Thanks, Martina (your English is fine).  I don't think this is overwork or sleeping position because it is not one nerve or area -- it is ALL OVER the body.  That makes it seem systemic and it came on for the most part out of the blue.

 

I'm considering an updose but holding off for now.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Blondiee1915]

Hi Andy, 

 

I am sorry you are not feeling well.  I wanted to chime in and offer my thoughts.  

 

1. I feel like there has to be some sort of a trigger.  I remember reading a few of your earlier posts about moving your daughter and dealing with the death or your relative.  I keep getting this impression of how you are not resting enough. I feel like you do alot of things for everyone and on the constant go mode.  Sometimes we go into the auto pilot mode and just do things, but then things just pile up and pile up and one day something so small can cause chaos in our bodies.  

 

2.  This is my take on updose:  I feel like at a certain point we build tolerance to the meds and being on the meds long term the tolerance build up is expected.  Since you were decreasing for a while and as Flowers pointed out did not feel great this whole year but still taper I think by increasing the dose you will basically put yourself where you were a month or two ago which is still not great place.  And eventually you have to decrease and go through these symptoms again.  I remember reading Baylissa Frederick book and she mentioned how being in tolerance there is really no choice except to decrease and if you go back to the original dose you are still in tolerance and are still experiencing crappy symptoms.   I would suggest to give yourself a few days of rest and care and see if that helps in anyway.  I do understand the need to function and work and so on.  Only if it does not get better then consider the updose.  

 

3.  I am not sure if the symptoms you are experiencing relate to WD anxiety or both. I do feel like it is related to WD and possibly anxiety and not some mysterious illness.   I wanted to share my symptoms hopefully to comfort you.  I did have some chest paints too and this nerve pain down my leg like a sciatica.  I recall quitting lexapro after 4 years of use and commuting to/from work and sitting on the bus and feeling this intense chest pressure and pain it was like a brick on my chest/heart area and then I even felt my heart skip a beat.  It was so bizarre.  

This might get me in trouble but if you are feeling extra anxious and cannot sleep what about taking a tiny amount of xanax?  If that helps and mitigates the symptoms perhaps that can provide a peace of mind so you know it is not something serious as well as get some sleep?  I understand this is not a long term solution. 

 

I am hoping you will get some relief too.  Sorry if I was all over the place I wanted to stop by and provide some support but I am so tired and brain fogged. 

 

PS I have this theory how after a very bad wave there more room from improvement.  It is like a storm before the sunshine

 

 

 

 

[apace41]

36 minutes ago, Blondiee1915 said:

I feel like there has to be some sort of a trigger.

 

Thanks for coming on and giving me your excellent thoughts, Blondiee.

 

I agree with you and I think the things you highlighted are the likely sources.  We are so conditioned to "cause and effect" thinking that we look for an immediate cause, i.e. something you ate or a medicine or supplement, but the cumulative effect of stress could well have pushed me over the edge.  Hence I need to heed Shep's admonition to rest and relax this weekend.

 

37 minutes ago, Blondiee1915 said:

This is my take on updose:  I feel like at a certain point we build tolerance to the meds and being on the meds long term the tolerance build up is expected.  Since you were decreasing for a while and as Flowers pointed out did not feel great this whole year but still taper I think by increasing the dose you will basically put yourself where you were a month or two ago which is still not great place.  And eventually you have to decrease and go through these symptoms again.  I remember reading Baylissa Frederick book and she mentioned how being in tolerance there is really no choice except to decrease and if you go back to the original dose you are still in tolerance and are still experiencing crappy symptoms.   I would suggest to give yourself a few days of rest and care and see if that helps in anyway.  I do understand the need to function and work and so on.  Only if it does not get better then consider the updose. 

 

This is how I'm leaning and I think you said it very, very well.

 

38 minutes ago, Blondiee1915 said:

I do feel like it is related to WD and possibly anxiety and not some mysterious illness.   I wanted to share my symptoms hopefully to comfort you.  I did have some chest paints too and this nerve pain down my leg like a sciatica.  I recall quitting lexapro after 4 years of use and commuting to/from work and sitting on the bus and feeling this intense chest pressure and pain it was like a brick on my chest/heart area and then I even felt my heart skip a beat.  It was so bizarre.  

 

This is very reassuring, Blondiee.  Thank you.

 

38 minutes ago, Blondiee1915 said:

This might get me in trouble but if you are feeling extra anxious and cannot sleep what about taking a tiny amount of xanax?  If that helps and mitigates the symptoms perhaps that can provide a peace of mind so you know it is not something serious as well as get some sleep?  I understand this is not a long term solution. 

 

Had I not tapered Klonopin prior to the SSRI I might well be considering this.  I might be inclined to take a Hydroxyzine tonight (even over Shep's objection) to help me sleep.

 

Thanks again.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Blondiee1915]

Oh Andy I totally forgot about your Klonopin taper then I am crossing out my Xanax recommendation 😐

 

How are you doing ? I am hoping you were able to get some decent hours of sleep .  

 

The good news is today is Friday ☺️

 

 

[apace41]

26 minutes ago, Blondiee1915 said:

How are you doing ? I am hoping you were able to get some decent hours of sleep .  

 

The good news is today is Friday ☺️

 

Thanks for checking in, Blondiee.  Very sweet of you.  I had a really hard time falling asleep with the pain, numbness, anxiety, etc.  collapsed somewhere around 3:30 or 4 and slept until 8.  Better than I expected by a long shot. Felt slightly better when I woke but I can feel things returning. I think this will take a little time.

 

Friday is a plus. Took the day off. 

 

Hope we you are ok.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[RachelSusan]

Hi Andy,

I'm sorry to read about your suffering. You had a consistent tapering schedule this last spring, all the way into mid July. Even though your drops were very conservative could this be a delayed reaction to that tapering schedule?  Whatever it is, I hope the pain goes away as quickly as possible.  The pain and devastation inflicted upon those of us who experience withdrawal is so intense it is beyond comprehension of the person that has never experienced it.  I am so sorry this is happening to you now.

RS

 

 

[apace41]

49 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

Even though your drops were very conservative could this be a delayed reaction to that tapering schedule?

 

Thanks for the visit, RS.  Anything is possible in this tapering business so I can't rule that out, however, it seems too acute to be that.  Shep (the moderator) uncovered some research that indicates that Prilosec (PPIs generally) inhibit the clearance of SSRIs and therefore can result in a buildup of the med in the system.  Then, when you finish a course of PPIs, you would theoretically be making the equivalent of a cut.  It may well be that is the trigger here.

 

52 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

Whatever it is, I hope the pain goes away as quickly as possible.  The pain and devastation inflicted upon those of us who experience withdrawal is so intense it is beyond comprehension of the person that has never experienced it.  I am so sorry this is happening to you now.

 

True statements and I thank you for your sentiment.

 

Much appreciated.

 

Best,

 

Andy