jammin83 Intro

[jammin83]

Hi there, first post!

 

I am new to this forum and found it searching for some tapering advice. I am currently on 50 mg seroquel and 900 mg gabapentin both once a day at night. I have a bipolar II and ADD diagnosis and poly-substance dependency issues. I was originally on 20 mg of olanzapine for a few years and weened down to 5 mg then switched seroquel bc it is supposed to be easier than just dropping the olanzapine. It has been hard but I have managed to get through it. I am planning on lowering to 25 mg of seroquel tonight and see how that goes. I have managed to stop using a quite the variety of substances from adderall, benzos, opiates, ADs, etc. Some of those experiences were rough. I had to kick a 10 mg xanax/day habit and 24 mg suboxone/day habit at the same time and went psychotic. In some ways though this is equally as rough. It is more drawn out and the depression is crushing but I know that it is just a symptom of things not working right. I don't really pay attention to suicidal thoughts anymore honestly. I did have a night where I was hallucinating a bit but it seems to have subsided. This stuff is so crazy I have never had psychotic symptoms but no stranger to extreme states so I try not to let it get the best of me. I've been dealing with all of this for a pretty extended amount of time. These two are last on my list and I am thrilled. Still using marijuana regularly as I have for many years. Sometimes it helps sometimes it doesn't. Some days Ill drink a couple beers to deal with the anxiety but can sometimes makes it worse. Just trying to listen to my body though and not take it too fast but I am motivated to be done with all of this med non-sense. I don't know how some of you have dealt with it for so long. At one point I was on like seven medications and have been on just about everything. Sometimes I feel like I am totally ****** but I would like to think I am working towards some type of sanity, I guess. I know some of you will say I am going too fast but I can't stand this stuff anymore! 

 

/rant

Edited February 17, 2015 by cymbaltawithdrawal5600
redacted obscenity

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

So you are determined to risk withdrawal syndrome no matter what information we may give to the contrary? I'll just give you the links to our suggestions for tapering and you can take what you want from it.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Why taper? Paper demonstrates importance of gradual change in plasma concentration

 

Important topics in the Tapering forum and FAQ

 

Withdrawal effects while discontinuing antipsychotic medi...

 

tips for tapering seroquel

 

http://survivinganti...iapine/?p=33069

 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Tips for tapering gabapentin

 

 

Welcome to the site and please let us know how you are doing as you decrease your drugs.

 

(and we try not to use off color language here. Your 'word' slipped through the site filter, please use something less 'colorful', thanks!)

[Petunia]

Welcome jammin83,

You have been on and come off a lot of drugs, its no wonder you don't feel the best.  You wrote that you found us because you were looking for tapering advice.  If you really do want some help, then I suggest you read the links CW posted for you.  You don't have to suffer so badly when getting off these drugs. Many people are able to taper slowly and still remain functional in their lives, eventually getting off all their drugs and going on to remain drug free.

 

A slow taper will not only minimize withdrawal symptoms, it will give you the best chance at getting through the post-withdrawal year or two without having to go back on the drugs.  You don't want to end up being put back on them do you?

 

You have done so well so far and only have 2 drugs left to go.  Please slow down, let us support you and give yourself a chance to become drug free and remain that way.

 

Of course you are free to make your own decisions, and whatever you decide, do stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

[jammin83]

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I didn't mean to come come across so stubborn, I am just fed up. I will heed your advice and slow down. There is so little information available, in general, on this topic. I have never heard of the 10%/month ratio. All my doctor said was "go slow or you'll end up in a psych ward".

 

Going to hold at the 50 mg for a while before reducing again. 10%/month seems like it is so slow though. I don't know if I have the patience to be on this stuff for that much longer. I used to be so intelligent and creative, now I can barely remember anything and often get confused. In a fog all of the time and experiencing a serious decrease in mental capacity. I barely have the motivation to do anything anymore. I also worry about diabetes and TD. I will slow it down and keep you updated. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

There is no guarantee that you will be on the drugs long enough for things such as 'tardive dyskinesia/dysphoria' or diabetes to happen and they may not even be directly attributable to your rx drug use. Possibly to the 'other' drug use. Who knows? Causation is not firm in any case, only suggestive and possible.

 

What we are trying to say here is that we understand, but your impatience in wanting off everything NOW is likely to cause more problems that going back on the drugs to do a slower taper will never be able fix. We see that a lot. I know for positive that we have had people come, 'stubbornly refuse' all reasoned and persuasive arguments for the 'harm reduction' approach, yank themselves off the drugs, come back here apologetic and wanting to do it 'our way' and they are miserable because we can not offer them any way to turn things around and they suffer needlessly. But people are people and we have to let them be the way they are. We are peer counselors, we don't diagnose or prescribe, we just say how it has been for us and the others we have seen and try to guide you (and then support you) in making better decisions about what to do when you find yourself on these drugs and you start to realize they aren't 'doing it' for you any more. And you have learned they come with a price you find you don't want to pay.

 

I was trained as a nurse. I cannot tell you how shocked I was when I came here, CT off my drugs by a stupid mistake and came to find out the drugs were actually harming me instead of 'helping' my depression. I read all the stuff, came to see the writing on the wall and stayed to learn. Good thing too. I hit protracted withdrawal one year after going off the drugs and it is only my knowledge of what was going on that saved me. I could have run from doc to doc and been given drugs which would have made me very very sick. Have you ever read about akasthisia? I don't want to scare you but that is a place you never want to go. I had it a bit of it off  and on, we have members here that got it after being sensitized to psychoactive drugs and they took some other supposedly innocuous drug and it happened to them.

 

Well, enough about that. Our job is to give you the proper information (as we see it) so you can make an informed choice about what to do. Read the stories. Every topic in the introductions forum is a mini case history. We have a recovery stories forum too, much smaller.

[westcoast]

Hi Jammin, and welcome. I hope tapering works. I ct'd in total ignorance and went psycho. I don't know what tapering would have been like, but I suspect it would have been a lot safer. One of the last pills I used was Seroquel for sleep, but irregularly, and in a huger dose than yours. I think I was taking 150mg. I couldn't sleep without medication. I switched things like Benedryl or Unisom which I sometimes still rely on. Before all this I didn't need anything to fall asleep. You have done a great job of getting off benzos and opiates, so you have that under your belt.

 

Were you diagnosed bipolar before or after you started using drugs, prescribed or otherwise? Just curious. Don't answer if it is too private!

[jammin83]

 

Were you diagnosed bipolar before or after you started using drugs, prescribed or otherwise? Just curious. Don't answer if it is too private!

 

After I started using, but I tried to commit suicide when I was 16 and only was using marijuana infrequently at the time. So, I've had some mental health issues for a while. I am not too worried about divulging my drug use I don't have much of a reputation to uphold anymore. It comes and goes but in my early 20's it became unbearable. I began to spiral out of control. I have been in psych wards, rehabs, jails, etc. All the places troubled people have a tendency to visit.

 

Over my 31 years I have used pretty much every substance under the sun and have a tendency to self medicate with opiates mostly. Less depressed, sleep good, no anxiety, but obviously that becomes a problem. I am mostly clean now besides a little alcohol and marijuana, which I am using less and less because it seems to be doing more harm than good. 

 

I thought the meds would help me stay clean. For a while, it was mainly depression but with high levels of anxiety and sleeplessness among other things. A very stimulated depression. At first, I was prescribed ADs but they seemed to make my symptoms worse and increased anxiety. I was then prescribed a combination of benzos and adderall for a number of years. I was still having issues all around on that combo but became addicted to it and stayed on it for a number of years. I was working rotating shifts at my job that also contributed to destabilizing me. I finally reached a breaking point and snapped. I ended up getting a prison sentence out of it. At that point, I was prescribed 10mg of xanax a day but I could easily take double that and was still not sleeping. I was using soboxone for the opiate withdrawals. In jail, they lowered my dosage to 15 mg of temazepam once a day for five days and then sent me into population. Needless, to say I went psychotic after three weeks of not sleeping. It was terrifying. Easily one of the worst experiences of my life. 

 

I was actually doing okay and sleeping on my own and everything but when I got to DOC they put me on more meds. I was rotated on a bunch of stuff and had been on risperidone for about a year. When I got out, I was planning on killing myself I was so depressed. I eventually got accepted into a half-way house that specialized in substance abuse and mental health supposedly. There I started on olanzapine and a plethora of other meds. I told them I didn't think it was doing me any good anymore but I was forced to take the stuff. That was in 2012. I discharged my sentence a year ago and have been trying to pick up the pieces. I know now that most of my issues revolved around drug use and I know that I am responsible for them, but it is still difficult. Over the years , I have had periods of abstinence and remained high functioning for a while but I have hit some very low spots and returned to using. I am now working on phasing substances out of my life for good. 

 

I hope it is not too much information, I just thought the full story might be of use. It is far from complete but hope it kind of puts things into context.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

The full story is very much appreciated, I hope it was not too hard to write. You seem like a highly intelligent and high functioning person when not confounded by drug use and the problems that come with that. I really think, that when you set your mind down to it and have a good plan, that you will live a successful life without having to resort to using substances to manuipulate your emotional states, a goal a lot of us are striving for. Getting there is another matter all together.

 

What kind of work do you like to do?

[jammin83]

When I first started college, I wanted to be a doctor (go figure) but I had to drop out bc of a marijuana charge and I was on financial aid. Since, I have finished a general two year degree but that was almost ten years ago. I found work in colorado in the natural gas business. I had a tendency to not get along with most of the 'good ol boys' at my job. I didn't particularly enjoy it but it payed well. For a year, I tried to work nights and go to school during the day for mechanical engineering but it didn't turn out so hot. Since I have been out, I worked in restaurants and more recently, construction. It is not for me either. I don't know what to do about it. I am trying to figure out something I can do on my own now so I don't have to rely on employers to hire me, as I am mostly unemployable. I am considering web design and web development but I don't know. I have always been creative, and I enjoy writing music  but haven't done that for some time as the creativity has seemed to have faded. I know it doesn't really answer your question, bc I really have no idea anymore. I am trying to get over these withdrawals first, but I am working on finding more suitable work as well. It is a source of constant stress. 

 

I apologize for writing, grammar, and lack of paragraphs...will work on that!

[jammin83]

Thank you for all the kind words! It really makes a difference having support. 

[Fresh]

Hi jammin , welcome to the site.

 

I just wanted to pop in and say that your story is more common than you think.    Many people who come through the corrections system are medicated inappropriately, and have to deal with the fall-out on their own afterwards.

It's almost impossible to plan a career when your level of functioning continues to fluctuate with your mental state. 

You're doing great to have gotten down to two meds - that's a real achievement.

You don't want to stuff it up now by cutting things too quickly. 

 

I hope you've gotten the message that decreasing Seroquel by 50% isn't a safe or sensible thing to do.  You can make the choices now , and the information on this site will help you do that.

 

Best wishes ,   Fresh

[mammaP]

Hi Jammin, your story actually brought tears to my eyes, we see so often that people are drugged to an inch of their lives in attempts to make them 'behave'  

 

The rest of your life starts right here, right now and it can be better. You need to believe in yourself and your abilities and not rely on medication, legal or otherwise.

You seem bright, creative and intelligent, and just need to become stable enough to make something of your life. 

 

Many people here have self medicated with weed and alcohol to find that it just makes things much worse. When the nervous system is battered with chemical drugs it becomes unstable and unable to cope with drugs and even additives in food and drinks. For now it would be best for you to hold with your meds for a while to give your brain a break and chance to stabilise. Once you feel stable then it will be the time to consider starting to taper off the last 2 drugs.  If you don't taper slowly you risk another meltdown with withdrawal and that would be tragic when you have come so far. 

 

As well as the links that CW has given you to read, if you can get hold of copies of 'Anatomy of an epidemic' by Robert Whitaker it will be an eye opener for you.

Please don't make the mistake of cutting too much too soon, and undoing all you have achieved so far. I'm glad that you found us, let us know how things are going.

[jammin83]

I hear you guys loud and clear and will take it easy until I am more stable. I plan to hold on the 50 mg for a while, at least a couple more weeks and then only a small decrease after that. Do you think that I should invest in a mg scale or make a solution? I have both 25 mg pills and 100 mg pills but splitting the 25s is nearly impossible they're so small.  

 

Do you guys think I am doing this in the right order? The seroquel helps me sleep so maybe it would be easier to cut back on the neurontin first, but idk.

 

Is melatonin safe to use? Right now I am sleeping okay but any lower is going to be pushing it. I don't want to take a bunch of supplements but also looking into magnesium. 

 

I will definitely look into to doing some of the reading some of you have recommended. Thanks so much for all the help!

[Frustrated]

Are the 25 mg pills the seroquel? I am currently cutting my son's seroquel pills and they are the 25 mg. they are very small but I am able to cut them in a pill cutter and weigh the pill on a mg scale. His pill is at 17 mg right now so it is possible. Hope this helps.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, jammin.

 

Yes, you might consider reducing the gabapentin first. Why are you taking it?

 

cymbaltawithdrawal gave you the link to the gabapentin tapering topic. The principles for gradual reduction are the same.

 

Although you might feel a strong impulse to take chances with tapering, please consider this: For someone like yourself, who's identified in the "system," it's important to taper at a rate that does not cause symptoms that might send you to the hospital, where you probably will be diagnosed as relapsed and put on a huge drug cocktail -- as you probably know too well!

 

Very careful tapering is necessary when you have had psychotic symptoms. Such symptoms can appear as withdrawal symptoms; that will cause you to become diagnosed as relapsed and re-medicated. See Psychiatrist: Some patients are better off without antipsychotics...

[jammin83]

Welcome, jammin.

 

Yes, you might consider reducing the gabapentin first. Why are you taking it?

 

cymbaltawithdrawal gave you the link to the gabapentin tapering topic. The principles for gradual reduction are the same.

 

Although you might feel a strong impulse to take chances with tapering, please consider this: For someone like yourself, who's identified in the "system," it's important to taper at a rate that does not cause symptoms that might send you to the hospital, where you probably will be diagnosed as relapsed and put on a huge drug cocktail -- as you probably know too well!

 

Very careful tapering is necessary when you have had psychotic symptoms. Such symptoms can appear as withdrawal symptoms; that will cause you to become diagnosed as relapsed and re-medicated. See Psychiatrist: Some patients are better off without antipsychotics...

 

 

I first started taking it for anxiety and it helped me to sleep as well. I thought it was maybe a sound alternative to benzos because it didn't seem to make me depressed and I was under the impression there were no wds. Same with the anti-psychotics. The effect kind of faded fast though and the dosage was increased. At one point I was on like 3200 mg a day. I didn't have too many problems going down to 800 mg and it really doesn't seem to work any better at higher doses anyway. I think I will get off of this one first after I kind of stabilize from the seroquel drop. I think it will be easier. Right now I only have 300 mg capsules so I'm going to buy a mg scale. 

 

That's also very sound advice concerning the relapse. Overall, I think I understand the implications of what you tell some of these people so I am pretty cautious and don't want to be taking ANY trips to the hospital. I really didn't want to tell the dr. that I was coming off the meds, but he was surprisingly supportive and has given me what I need except for any type of sound tapering advice. It should be noted that he is just a GP not a psych though. He just gives me six months worth of meds and sends me on my way which is fine with me. 

 

Thank you altostrata!

[westcoast]

Jammin, at one point in my saga I saw a new shrink who prescribed gabapentin. She said it was benign and I could take virtually as much as I wanted. Luckily it had no apparent effect on me, and she missed our next appointment and I never went back. PUgKnows, on this site, is suffering with gabapentin withdrawal. You might want to drop her a line.

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, jammin.

 

Please also be careful with gabapentin tapering. Often people have the most difficulty at lower dosages.

[jammin83]

So, I don't know what to do anymore. I was trying things the way I was supposed to do but I honestly was never able to re-stabilize since I first got here. I realized that the seroquel I was taking wasn't doing anything at all. I can take 25 mg or 100 mg and it doesn't help but helps me sleep. I can take olanzapine again and it doesn't help. I know that I was trying to go too fast but honestly I was a mess when I got here. Even when I take olanzapine it doesn't help anything. I have improved some but then I get worse. I have severe, severe mood swings and they cycle rapidly. I get full blown mania and have never had that being bp II. I get suicidal depression. I get mixed states. I can tell when they are going to cycle. I sleep maybe 4 hours a night and I work hard labor. I'm losing my mind. I get irritable and angry. I feel like my head is going to literally explode. I get pins and needles. I now understand intimately what schizophrenia is like. Nothing is helping. I know, 'you told me so' but I tried everything to re-stabilize once I got here. I thought this was like heroin or benzos where you can push through and then all of a sudden your better. This doesn't seem like it's going away. I'm afraid to go to the doctor. More meds? no way.    

 

What do I do now? 

 

...and I haven't been using any drugs or alcohol at all because I am so scared. I am done with all of it. 

 

I also should say that I now have verbal tics. Similar to tourettes.

[mammaP]

I'm sorry that you are feeling so bad Jammin. Can you tell us what you have taken since you joined us and when?  You cut the seroquel to 25mg and stayed there? 

How often have you taken olanzapine? Have you tried different doses of seroquel to try and get some relief? I'm sorry for all the questions, but it is important to 

understand how much and when to see what may be causing your symptoms. I am so, so sorry that this is happening to you. You have had so many drugs, and the prescription ones can be much harder to quit than the illegal ones! I was especially saddened to read that you were dosed with benzos then cut off them cold turkey and released into the community! So they kept you medicated to keep you under control then sent you away. That is incredibly cruel and they should be prosecuted themselves. Your poor brain and nervous system has had such a lot to cope with and so many changes that it will take some time to unravel and get some kind of stability. 

 

It would help if you could put a brief drug history in your signature for us, it will help us to see without needing to read the whole thread, if you are up to it. 

Try not to panic Jammin, it is horrendous what you are going through but can get better. 

 

See how to do a signature here.... http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

[jammin83]

To answer your question, I wasn't keeping track of dates but mostly playing it by ear. I was very sick, unstable, and wanted to crawl into a whole somewhere. In February when I got here I was at 50 mg of seroquel. I just dropped from 100 mg. After getting here, I stayed at 50 mg and didn't re-stabilize so I went back up to 100 mg rather quickly. No change. I stayed at that dosage for a while and in March reinstated olanzapine 5-7 mg here and there but not daily. Generally, once a week because one dose would provide some relief for most of the week.

 

In April, I began to feel a little better and thought that I was through most of it. I realized that adjusting the dosage of seroquel only had an impact on how long I slept for the most part. I stopped taking it daily and only used it every few days. I actually started feeling better when I stopped it. I started feeling really good but I am thinking now it was mainly just hypomania. It was a relief to be through the acute phase which was nothing short of brutal. Didn't really feel any WDs from it besides some itching. When I did take it I only took 25 mg to sleep and was sleeping ok just on my neurontin. I was feeling good for a while and thought I was home free. I was wrong. 

 

The last few weeks have been a roller coaster. Some days I feel like I am on top of the world. Feel like I'm on coke or something some days and then I crash hard. It cycles rapidly. Mixed states happen more than anything but it's up and down. Some days I am beyond irritable, mainly I am just tired of feeling like this. I reinstated seroquel at 50 mg for the last few weeks and that's where I am now. It's really hard to gauge what's happening bc I feel different daily and not even always the same throughout the day. I have tried taking more olanzapine @ 5-7 mg and it helps me sleep but not much else. I get these feelings like I am withdrawing but I take olanzapine, neurontin, seroquel, which is everything and I still feel sick. It doesn't stabilize my mood. My mind won't shut off. I haven't tried taking the olanzapine daily yet because I don't want to get back on that train. I hate that train and don't want to see it ever again. After this, I don't know if I'll ever take even an aspirin again. 

 

As a whole, I am doing much better then when I got here. I can eat 3 meals a day now and for a while I was having a hard time eating one. I have much less anxiety and I am thinking much more clearly. I am coming back to life. I sleep okay every third or fourth day. 

 

I was in a hurry so badly because I was feeling suicidal when I was on olanzapine which told me I was in trouble. I wasn't feeling stable on it anymore. I was having severe cognitive difficulties. I was willing to put myself through hell to come out better on the other side. After doing more research I found out olanzapine is a 5-HT3 antagonist while apparently seroquel isn't very potent at that receptor. I think the receptors seroquel effects weren't the ones that were making me sick, hallucinating, and making me feel schizo. Also, seroquel isn't even anti-psychotic until around 200-300 mg and I never went above 100 mg bc that's the largest dose pills I have at first my doctor had only given me 25 mg pills and I had to talk him into getting 100 mg pills. 

 

So yeah, I screwed it all up but I had before I got here. I played with dosages but nothing really changed. Now nothing really helps and I am worried that I am BP I now and not BP II and worried that I have severely damaged my dopaminergic system. The mind not turning off thing isn't very fun and neither is the weird aches and pains I get. It's just all so strange at this point. I can honestly say I just don't get it. I don't know what's going on.The verbal tics are troubling but I think they are getting better. I am sure eventually I will be fine but my girlfriend is freaking out over what's happening. She says I need to go see a doctor. I told her no way. What are they going to do? Try putting me on some type of psych med? Maybe when hell freezes over.  

 

I have given up the little bit of alcohol I was drinking. I was really only using it to relieve some anxiety not because I was dependent on it. I haven't been using anything at all for a while now and I don't think I ever will again. I just want my brain chemistry back to normal but it's been ten long years of meds so I don't even know what I'm like off of them anymore. Since 2007 I have been on no less than 20 types of psych meds. I really think at this point all I can do is ride it out but I'd thought I'd check back in to see if you had any tips. I wish I would have found this site last summer. I realize now there is no such thing as a chemical cure. 

 

Thanks for the feedback. I really do appreciate it in spite of my lack of listening skills. Story of my life.  

[mammaP]

Thank you for clarifying things Jammin.  the drugs have affected your nervous system and brain and that is why you are having all these weird symptoms. 

Hypomania can be a symptom of withdrawal, many of us have been diagnosed with bi-polar when we have been messed up by meds, when it is a side effect of the very drugs they gave us in the first place!  I would hold right there for now, and you will stabilise eventually.  Take care with olanzapine as it is highly addictive and hard to get off, taking it could be causing rebound symptoms also.   Don't cut anything else, your nervous system needs stability more than anything. 

 

It's good that you are improving and things will continue to improve if you  don't change anything until you have been stable for at least  6 weeks. 

[jammin83]

I really can't take this anymore and its getting worse not better. It doesn't feel like it's going to end. This is beyond torture. I don't know what to do or where to to go. I need to go to the doctor but can anyone help me? My brain feels like it is on fire. I radiate heat. I have tension all up and down my spine. I feel a physical pain. I feel like my body is screaming for something but I don't know what. This has already been going on for so long. It's the kind of thing I don't know if you can recover from mentally. Long term stress on the mind like this can't be good at all. I really need help. I am not okay. I would take anything to make this go away but nothing I have does anything. Can a neurologist help me? It feels like im constantly on the verge of seizing up. I don't know how much longer I can take this. 

[Fresh]

Hey  jammin ,   this is withdrawal symptoms and they're not permanent.    You will recover from this , even though it sounds

pretty bad.

 

Have you been using any gabapentin or seroquel?   How long since any olanzapine?

It would be good to update us on the med. front.    

 

A neurologist can run a series of tests to reassure you there's nothing physical wrong.   Most don't understand w/d.

Some people find a small amount of diazepam can help during the rough patches.

 

Fresh

[jammin83]

Thanks fresh. I am holding in the same spot at 50 mg of seroquel right now. So I really haven't made much progress dosage wise in four months. Just been trying to stabilize. I took some olanzapine the other day because of how bad I was feeling and it only helped a tiny bit. 

 

It seemed like something else was going on with me besides withdrawal. I went to the doctor and told him a little about how I was feeling. He gave me the spiel about how some people need meds even though I told him I was 100% sure it was withdrawal. I also suspected depleted nutrients and what not from 8 long years of meds. I wanted him to check my various levels. He didn't really have much guidance in that department and said most people are usually fine. I wasn't sure about all the levels showing up in blood so I haven't pursued it yet. He sent me on my way with a muscle relaxer but it made me feel worse. 

 

Yesterday I received a much higher quality liquid magnesium solution and it helped almost immediately. I immediately felt a deep calming effect within just a few hours. It's really night and day. I was having almost all the symptoms of deficiency and was even having weird chest pains but was skeptical because the symptoms of deficiency are similar to withdrawal. The change is a major improvement. I can manage this quite easily now. I am wondering if I could be deficient in something else too but I am wary of most supplements.  I am considering a B12 supplement but am not sure. I just want to make sure I am actually getting the vitamins and nutrients I need so I can eliminate extra variables to accurately assess what's really going on. I also don't want to take things I don't need. 

 

I appreciate the feedback Fresh. I don't mean to complain and whine but this has been very difficult for me. I battle suicidal thoughts all the time not because I am depressed but because I have been living in this hell for almost 8 months now. It seems like a very long time to me and it's a daily battle living in this skin. I still have weird verbal tics/outbursts. I feel so alone in this and like nobody can help me. I hate feeling helpless. I really am not exaggerating about what's happening. My whole personality keeps changing. I am doing my best to try and figure this out and get stable but it's hard to do when you are feeling insane. I am blown away that they can even prescribe something that does this to people. This stuff is far worse than illicit substances. Basically poison. 

 

The flip side of this is that I do feel like I have gained a lot of mental strength believe it or not. I don't think I would recommend the exercise to anyone but combating thoughts while in distress is a valuable tool. I think I can handle anything life throws at me once I am feeling like my real self again. Thank you guys. It's nice to just tell someone what's happening because I feel like nobody really understands how difficult this is. I plan on just holding with seroquel for a while now. 6 weeks at least maybe longer. 

[Altostrata]

jammin, how are you doing?

[jammin83]

OK today, not particularly good but not bad right now. Tolerable at the moment. which is a good thing. The last time I posted I was on an upswing. I was manic for about 2 or 3 weeks, then crashed hard for another 2 or 3 weeks and now somewhere in between. The last depressive episode I didn't handle too well and it was pretty intense. I can feel my nervous system on overdrive all of the time, this really hasn't been safe for a very long time. I can feel my brain lit up like a Christmas tree. Even when I am depressed its always a speedy manic type of depression if that makes sense. Pretty mixed. Some days I am literally losing my mind. Paranoia is kind of off and on. I was seeing a therapist but I can't work on my issues right now everything is all distorted. I have a gf that is supportive and knows about what is going on but she is scared too. 

 

Apart from the standard cycling, I am more concerned with the neurological effects happening. Numb limbs, a burning/flushing sensation (doesn't go away), balance and cooridination problems, nausea (different than the initial zyprexa nausea), on the toilet all the time, vomiting (excessive sometimes), appetite issues (both ways), stomach pain, sensitivity to light, sore/aching muscles. This stuff hasn't changed in a while and it's been pretty constant for at least a couple of months but I do feel better today than I have in weeks with some of it. I know enough to know that this could go on for a very long time. So I am trying to strap in and do everything I need to to get better. I know it's going to take a while but I'm kind of getting used to it even though that's kind of messed up that this is my de facto state now.

 

The last couple of weeks since July 3, I have taken about 6 doses of zyprexa. It doesn't take that other stuff away but it quiets things down a bit. I think I am beyond reinstating and I need to wait it out so I am back up to 100 mg of seroquel because I would just like to see what happens in the next month before I mess with it again. I don't think anything can heal under so much stress. But I can't go through that initial zyprexa withdrawal again. But at times I need relief and things are few and far between that actually help at all. The verbal tics are still there but a little better today. 

 

Trying to stay positive, exercise, go to work, eat good, all of that. My doctor gave me a prescription for a flexiril but it didn't help so I don't take it. I got him to write me a rx for tenex to help keep me calm which seems rather benign at the moment as opposed to benzos or something. I still take magnesium and b12 and a bcomplex with a couple of extras. I seem to tolerate them well and they are all beneficial. I know not to add too many things in the mix but I need to find alternative ways of relief. I have some skullcap that helps calm me down but I don't take it every day. I can tolerate caffeine okay but I choose not to partake. I try not to feel completely broken but I do some days. 

 

I went to a different doctor because I wanted to get some tests, he said I was being agressive with him because from the second he walked in the door he started giving me the spiel about how I need medication and all of this is psychosomatic. I was complaining of the neurological stuff and sent me home with a bilpolar diagnosis after taking to me for a few minutes. It really pissed me off. Total jerk. Waste of time but didn't help the helpless feeling. I see my regular guy in a couple months and I'll get my blood work done. It doesn't matter but so much because I can't get off of it any faster than I am. I know there's not much I can really do at this point and no drug or scan is going to help much.  

 

Thanks for checking Alto. I'm still truckin.  

[Altostrata]

So you take occasional Zyprexa in addition to the Seroquel?

 

See these topics: Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

[jammin83]

Yes, the seroquel allows me to sleep but doesn't do much else I don't think. In hindsight, I should have never made the switch. The olanzapine quiets some of the mania and head pressure but it doesn't take all of my symptoms away. I think I am beyond reinstating at this point but occasional use does seem to give me a bit of relief but it affects me negatively in some ways too. I am doing everything in my power to get stable but it's a pretty hairy situation. I am mainly just scared because it has been so long. By April, I had improved some and gotten over that acute phase which was pretty devastating. I feel like this situation has really traumatized me even further and reactivated some of my older trauma. I am in constant fight or flight mode. My girlfriend understands somewhat but I feel very alone right now. I feel like nobody understands the severity of the situation. Some days I am on the verge because my mind and body has become uninhabitable.

 

Sometimes a single dose of zyprexa will help me for a about a week, but sometimes not. I go for as long as I can then take it. I haven't taken it in about a week now but this constant feeling of withdrawal is destroying my mind. It has become a toxic environment. All the progress I made on the medication has been wiped out and in some ways I am worse than I ever have been mentally. I talk to myself, I have outbursts, I am irritable and angry, I get frustrated and alienate the people around me. I have a lot of other issues I am dealing with right now as well and it's a very complex situation. I feel like I have no control over my thoughts and I can't concentrate on anything. I feel schizophrenic mentally and I feel poisoned physically. I should have never tried to get off of it, given my recent circumstances, but the medication wasn't really helping either anymore and I realized how much it was affecting me. The last six years has been a living nightmare every single day and I don't feel like this situation is going to improve for a very long time. I am trying to cope but I hate even waking up every day.   

 

I really don't know what to do Alto. There is something seriously wrong with my brain that doesn't seem to be improving much it really just seems about the same. 

[Altostrata]

I doubt intermittent use of olanzapine is good for you. How much are you taking?

 

No, you do not have something wrong with your brain. You have adverse effects from psychiatric drugs.

 

You will get through this, but it will take time, patience, and being careful about how you take the drugs.

[jammin83]

I take around 7.5 mg when i do. I'm going to try and stop doing that altogether. Last night I stayed with my gf and I didn't have my pills with me and I feel a lot better today. I don't know, I wonder if the seroquel is part of my problem. I think it's making me foggier and depressed. I really don't get withdrawals from it besides itching. I don't think it's helping stabilize me at all. Would dropping it be a bad idea? It's such a low dose and I think it's compounding my problem rather than helping. I'll just switch to melatonin for sleep I seem to tolerate supplements well. I really think it seems to be aggravating the problem. At this point it's not really cold turkey but something is messing me up still. I feel like I should be improving more. I had to take the neurontin this morning and I feel fine right now and not nearly as cloudy.This whole time I kind of feel like I went cold turkey. I've felt that way from the beginning seroquel isn't even half as potent as zyprexa and at that dosage it's not doing squat even at 100 mg. It's not even antipsychotic until around the 200-300 mark.  

 

I really want these APs out of my life for good. It's been going for a solid ten months now. I am improving but I have moments where I feel like I can't take it anymore. I'll be ok. Some days I do feel like freaking out though. 

[Altostrata]

When did you go to 100mg Seroquel? With the increase from 50mg, did your symptoms increase, decrease, or stay the same?

 

Are you still taking gabapentin? What was it prescribed for?

 

How about the liquid magnesium? What brand is it?

[jammin83]

I upped to 100 a week or two ago. It's mostly the same, more depressed though. It makes me sleep longer but doesn't seem to touch my withdrawal symptoms.Today I do feel a lot more clearheaded though. As you know, seroquel has a pretty short half life for an AP. Nothing seems to help my WD symptoms much even the olanzapine. But it can calm down the mania in a castrating way.   

 

I still take the gabapentin. 900 mg at night. For anxiety and 'mood stabilization'. Just a dependency at this point. 

 

Right now I am using the pico ionic ReMag formula. I take two teaspoons but I feel like I could take it all day and be fine. It seems to help. 

[Altostrata]

It might be a good idea to let your nervous system settle, maybe for another month.

 

Perhaps tapering gabapentin might be next.

[jammin83]

Alright. Im more than happy to not be calling the shots anymore. I can't figure this out at all. You're probably right about the gabapentin. Maybe next month I can start reducing. I don't think I should have too much difficulty until I get under 600 mg. Then it will probably be more difficult. I've never really tried to stop it but I went without it for a week one time and that wasn't super enjoyable. Can't be worse than zyprexa though but not super excited either. 

[jammin83]

I've been feeling a lot better this week overall, but my kidneys are really sore. This just became more noticeable the last couple of days. I think they have been under a lot of stress because of the withdrawal. Today they hurt more than ever and I know it's my kidneys because they get more sore when I use the bathroom, I wouldn't say it's extreme but they definitely hurt. Is this something I should get checked out or is this common?