jammin83 Intro

[Altostrata]

Let's make sure it isn't the drugs.

 

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and copy and paste the results in this topic.

 

Have you ever had kidney problems? Gabapentin is metabolized in the kidney http://www.drugs.com/pro/gabapentin.html
 

[jammin83]

Interactions between your selected drugs

guanfacine ↔ olanzapine

Applies to: Tenex (guanfacine), Zyprexa (olanzapine)

MONITOR: Phenothiazines and neuroleptic agents may potentiate the hypotensive effect of some medications secondary to their peripheral alpha-1 adrenergic blocking activity. Orthostatic hypotension and syncope associated with vasodilation may occur, particularly during initial dosing and/or parenteral administration of the phenothiazine or neuroleptic.

 

MANAGEMENT: Close clinical monitoring for development of hypotension is recommended if phenothiazines or neuroleptic agents are used in patients receiving antihypertensive medications or vasodilators. A lower starting dosage and slower titration of the phenothiazine or neuroleptic may be appropriate, especially in the elderly. Patients should be advised to avoid rising abruptly from a sitting or recumbent position and to notify their physician if they experience dizziness, lightheadedness, syncope, orthostasis, or tachycardia. Patients should also avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until they know how the medications affect them.

References

1. "Product Information. Seroquel (quetiapine)." Zeneca Pharmaceuticals, Wilmington, DE.
2. "Product Information. Clozaril (clozapine)." Sandoz Pharmaceuticals Corporation, East Hanover, NJ.
3. "Product Information. Zyprexa (olanzapine)." Lilly, Eli and Company, Indianapolis, IN.

View all 10 references

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guanfacine ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: Tenex (guanfacine), Seroquel (quetiapine)

MONITOR: Phenothiazines and neuroleptic agents may potentiate the hypotensive effect of some medications secondary to their peripheral alpha-1 adrenergic blocking activity. Orthostatic hypotension and syncope associated with vasodilation may occur, particularly during initial dosing and/or parenteral administration of the phenothiazine or neuroleptic.

 

MANAGEMENT: Close clinical monitoring for development of hypotension is recommended if phenothiazines or neuroleptic agents are used in patients receiving antihypertensive medications or vasodilators. A lower starting dosage and slower titration of the phenothiazine or neuroleptic may be appropriate, especially in the elderly. Patients should be advised to avoid rising abruptly from a sitting or recumbent position and to notify their physician if they experience dizziness, lightheadedness, syncope, orthostasis, or tachycardia. Patients should also avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until they know how the medications affect them.

References

1. "Product Information. Seroquel (quetiapine)." Zeneca Pharmaceuticals, Wilmington, DE.
2. "Product Information. Clozaril (clozapine)." Sandoz Pharmaceuticals Corporation, East Hanover, NJ.
3. "Product Information. Zyprexa (olanzapine)." Lilly, Eli and Company, Indianapolis, IN.

View all 10 references

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gabapentin ↔ olanzapine

Applies to: gabapentin, Zyprexa (olanzapine)

MONITOR: Central nervous system- and/or respiratory-depressant effects may be additively or synergistically increased in patients taking multiple drugs that cause these effects, especially in elderly or debilitated patients.

 

MANAGEMENT: During concomitant use of these drugs, patients should be monitored for potentially excessive or prolonged CNS and respiratory depression. Ambulatory patients should be counseled to avoid hazardous activities requiring mental alertness and motor coordination until they know how these agents affect them, and to notify their physician if they experience excessive or prolonged CNS effects that interfere with their normal activities.

References

1. "Product Information. Belsomra (suvorexant)." Merck & Company Inc, Whitehouse Station, NJ.
2. Divoll M, Greenblatt DJ, Lacasse Y, Shader RI "Benzodiazepine overdosage: plasma concentrations and clinical outcome." Psychopharmacology (Berl) 73 (1981): 381-3
3. Plushner SL "Valerian: valeriana officinalis." Am J Health Syst Pharm 57 (2000): 328-35

View all 34 references

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gabapentin ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: gabapentin, Seroquel (quetiapine)

MONITOR: Central nervous system- and/or respiratory-depressant effects may be additively or synergistically increased in patients taking multiple drugs that cause these effects, especially in elderly or debilitated patients.

 

MANAGEMENT: During concomitant use of these drugs, patients should be monitored for potentially excessive or prolonged CNS and respiratory depression. Ambulatory patients should be counseled to avoid hazardous activities requiring mental alertness and motor coordination until they know how these agents affect them, and to notify their physician if they experience excessive or prolonged CNS effects that interfere with their normal activities.

References

1. "Product Information. Belsomra (suvorexant)." Merck & Company Inc, Whitehouse Station, NJ.
2. Divoll M, Greenblatt DJ, Lacasse Y, Shader RI "Benzodiazepine overdosage: plasma concentrations and clinical outcome." Psychopharmacology (Berl) 73 (1981): 381-3
3. Plushner SL "Valerian: valeriana officinalis." Am J Health Syst Pharm 57 (2000): 328-35

View all 34 references

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olanzapine ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: Zyprexa (olanzapine), Seroquel (quetiapine)

MONITOR: Agents with anticholinergic properties (e.g., sedating antihistamines; antispasmodics; neuroleptics; phenothiazines; skeletal muscle relaxants; tricyclic antidepressants; disopyramide) may have additive effects when used in combination. Excessive parasympatholytic effects may result in paralytic ileus, hyperthermia, heat stroke, and the anticholinergic intoxication syndrome. Peripheral symptoms of intoxication commonly include mydriasis, blurred vision, flushed face, fever, dry skin and mucous membranes, tachycardia, urinary retention, and constipation. Central symptoms may include memory loss, disorientation, incoherence, hallucinations, psychosis, delirium, hyperactivity, twitching or jerking movements, stereotypy, and seizures. Central nervous system-depressant effects may also be additively or synergistically increased when these agents are combined, especially in elderly or debilitated patients. Use of neuroleptics in combination with other neuroleptics or anticholinergic agents may increase the risk of tardive dyskinesia.

 

MANAGEMENT: Caution is advised when agents with anticholinergic properties are combined, particularly in the elderly and those with underlying organic brain disease, who tend to be more sensitive to the central anticholinergic effects of these drugs and in whom toxicity symptoms may be easily overlooked. Patients should be advised to notify their physician promptly if they experience potential symptoms of anticholinergic intoxication such as abdominal pain, fever, heat intolerance, blurred vision, confusion, and/or hallucinations. Ambulatory patients should be counseled to avoid activities requiring mental alertness until they know how these agents affect them. A reduction in anticholinergic dosages may be necessary if excessive adverse effects develop.

[Altostrata]

Have you ever had kidney problems?

 

My guess it's an interaction between gabapentin and Seroquel. Do you feel up to reducing gabapentin?

[jammin83]

No I've always been really healthy aside from the mental health stuff. I rarely ever get sick or anything. I was going to hold off on the gabapentin or anything else for a while but I could probably drop down to 800 mg without much difficulty. I could be wrong but I don't think I'll have too much difficulty til I get below 600 maybe less. Could I just drop 100 mg each 3 or 4 weeks for the first few months? I don't want to go too fast and I know better than to force it but I really feel like I need to get off of this stuff as fast as possible.

[jammin83]

Oops

[Altostrata]

How about decreasing the gabapentin by 100mg and see how it goes?

[jammin83]

The kidney pain cleared up. Haven't started dropping anything yet. Wanted to stabilize further and I need a break very badly. I was doing a lot better but have relapsed a little. I joined a gym and tried lifting some weights yesterday. Bad idea. Feel like I got hit by a train. Having some new weird withdrawal stuff happening the last week or so. Grumpy and irritable. My muscles are so sore, not just from the weights, I am in a lot pain right now. My muscles were already tense before, like really tense, now it's miserable. This part has been going on a while. Anything I can do to ease the rigidity? I am guessing this is pretty common with APs?

[Altostrata]

Hi, jammin. How about acupuncture for the pain?

 

Did we talk about fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

Magnesium can help relax muscles.

[jammin83]

I need to look into that. I have heard good things, but haven't pursued them. I haven't tried fish oil yet, kind of expensive. 

 

I seem to be in some type of plateau now. I don't know if I am getting better or not. I still have the tics, I still yell expletives a lot uncontrollably, I call them the 'blips'. Haven't dropped anything still at 100 mg of seroquel and 900 mg of gaba. I am going in for blood work soon, and seeing the doctor. Getting him to write me some 100 mg tabs of gaba in addition to the 300 mg tabs I get. Still having some issues, pretty much the same stuff. Head pressure, burning skin, hot all the time, paranoia, nausea, etc. 

 

I have been on these things a long time, I don't really know how I am off of them. Maybe I'll get better, maybe not. I think I am improving, but I don't really know. Even my girlfriend thinks I might be schizophrenic. I called a friend last night because I was being paranoid about something that may or may not even be real. He thinks I might need some of this stuff (sigh). I realized I am super paranoid all of the time and I think it is related to the 'blips'. I don't know. I hope this isn't how I am going to be from now on. Not really anything I can take for it as even zyprexa doesn't help me much. Feeling much better than I was a few months ago but idk really know anymore. I still feel like I am not really grounded in reality and experiencing a lot of distortions and weird thoughts. Like I don't have control of what's happening in my mind. Just not sure of what is really going on anymore. 

[Katy91]

Hey, don't let people write you off as being paranoid or schizophrenic. Paranoia is just a more derogatory way of saying fear.  When you're afraid all kinds of thoughts can occur.  But even the wildest thoughts and beliefs have a grain of truth in them.  You may well be experiencing a heightened state of fear due to abrupt olanzapine withdrawal still.  I doubt feeling fear is you're innate way of being so there is nothing fundamentally wrong with you.  I'm so angry that your girlfriend thinks you may be schizoprehic, that is the worst psychiatric label that can applied to anyone and shows a total lack of understanding on her part.  Most people who've never looked into the invalidity of psychiatric diagnoses and the harmful effects of psych drugs will probably think it's in your best interests to take drugs and so called treatment.  But they are being stupid and insensitive.

 

x

[Fresh]

Hi jammin ,    I see when you tried magnesium before it really helped , maybe worth trying again on a daily basis?

I'm interested to know more about the "blips" , how long has this been happening etc?

 

If you're feeling better than you were a few months ago , that's a good thing.  The way you are now is temporary and will change as you continue to decrease your drug intake.

 

[jammin83]

Hey Fresh, Yeah I need to start with the magnesium daily. I really do. As far as the blips go they have been happening since around February, so about 8  months now. They are worse than ever but it doesn't really matter. Nobody understands what I am going through. Nobody, I went through prison just to go through this. What for...more mental health problems and schizo bs. Cmon, what is the point? This is all a giant waste of time. I have had a severe withdrawal that nobody understands and I have a couple pages. Most people have 20 or 30 by now. I am having a hard time, nobody gets it, nobody understands what I am going through, I am all alone, All I have is this site, maybe Katy or Alto, nothing else. WTF is the point. I should have killed myself a long time ago. Nobody cares about the **** I deal with and this is the ******* worst of it all. I cant live like this anymore. I really can't. 

[Altostrata]

I'm very sorry you're going through this, jammin. You need to find people to talk to in real life. Have you tried volunteering? Maybe with pets at the animal shelter? That could be a way to meet people to talk to. And caring for animals is emotionally rewarding, too.

[JanCarol]

Hey Jammin - how are you going?

 

I just read your thread, and I wanted to let you know that neuroleptics - aka "anti-psychotics" - actually sensitize your brain to what I call "manifestations," what the medical profession calls "psychosis."  

 

You were probably never bipolar.  You may have sensitized your brain when you were a teenager, by trying different substances, and that got you into trouble.  I did the same - sure I was a "weird kid" who did lots of things for attention and affection, but I landed in trouble, too.

 

Sadly, once you get labeled, it's hard to make that label go away.  I'm sorry you are having trouble finding support.

 

Psych drug withdrawal is the great sweeper of our lives.  It determines what we really need, and what we don’t.  We get reduced to quivering blobs of emotion and physical distress - and the unnecessary things in our lives drop away.

 

When we come out, we gradually pick up the important things again - but the lesson has been driven home so hard that we are a lot more careful about what it is we pick up.

 

It's a huge healing process, like a tornado coming through and flattening everything.  It's hard to put together the pieces again - but - it's also purifying, cleansing, and healing to start with nothing and build from there.

 

People in substance abuse withdrawals claim this - but because psych drug withdrawal is protracted - like no other drug or substance - it is more so.  Times ten.

 

I hope you can come back and try again.  I hope you can find some good things in your life to help you - whether it is daily walks, or a pet, or - whatever catches your attention, and motivates you to keep trying.  Every day is new, every hour is new, every minute is new - and it's worth it.

[jammin83]

Thanks Jan. I wasn't going to post anymore. I've already embarrassed myself enough. I've absorbed a lot of information from this site, but too little too late. I was already in serious trouble when I got here. Now...well, whatever is going on isn't really fixable.

 

I am off of APs. Stopped taking the 100 mg of seroquel I was taking. Didn't get any withdrawals. Dealing with some insomnia, but nothing major. Stuff wasn't ever doing anything for me besides giving me a histamine reaction that resulted in a few hours of shallow sleep. I still get sleep on the gabapentin but don't really even feel like trying to get off of it. I'm stable enough, I guess, just don't really care about it. I don't really feel like going through anymore withdrawal, pretty much ever. 

 

Fun things I am dealing with now: nausea, sour stomach, vomiting, chest pain, diarrhea, stomach pain, nerve pain, numbness, tingling, burning in skin, sweating, hot. Aside from the usual agitation, mood swings, mania, depression, anxiety, and more boring typical symptoms. I am familiar enough with those that they don't really bother me. I'm pretty detached from it all anymore, just normal now. Not going away. 

 

Going to the walk in clinic with some blood work. I am sure it will be conclusive and lead to me being miraculously fixed. 

 

My life is still pretty fun. Breaking up with my gf, quitting my sh*tty job, finding a new sh*tty job, trying to get out of my parents house, dealing with my mom that's about to have a nervous breakdown, brother using serious drugs and about to get sent back to prison, parents foreclosing on the house, typical stuff. 

 

Supplementing with b12 but still boozing it up. Can't seem to quit. I know, just stop. Right. Nothing really helps. My life is a wreck. I don't even know why I bother tbh. Can't even leave my room to do anything besides go to my sh*tty job where I get taken advantage of. What's the point? Maybe some people can get through this, buy a new house, have a white picket fence, a new golden retriever, and live happily ever after, but that just isn't how my life works. I've had major depression since I was a teen, and I can't get over whatever bothers me so much. This is just icing on the cake to an already messed up life. 

[Katy91]

Hi jammin glad you're still in one piece

[jammin83]

Just a thought I would check in with you guys and give an update. 

 

Still on the rollercoaster but improving. Very slowly though. I was pretty desperate a few months ago. This thing has done some wonders to my psyche throughout all of this. Hardest thing I've ever done but anyway...

 

Cant remember exact dates but i was actually feeling pretty good not too long ago. Took some african root a few months ago and it helped me a lot but I know taking things isn't recommended but i felt this had some research behind it, i was pretty desperate. I was feeling great for about two months. I could still kind of feel it but it was manageable and my mind state was the healthiest its ever been. It felt pretty good to feel like myself.

 

Started reducing gabapentin from 900 to 800. Went about three weeks and had no symptoms. Went down to 700 which is a little more than 10% but not much. Some people have a hard time with gabapentin, others don't and I had reduced it before from like 3600 a day to 900 a day pretty quick. different game though now obviously. I realized i was feeling kinda crappy one day but thought it would pass. Couple days later almost all my original symptoms flared up with a vengeance. Totally destabilized me again. Starting to come around now but it got rough again. Just the original 'withdrawal' or something. Its all the same symptoms wasn't really different or have any different qualities than zyprexa withdrawal. 

 

I don't really think its withdrawal anymore but that I did damage to my brain. I've been sick for a year and a half and its a bunch of different symptoms but i messed up myself pretty good. I have all the symptoms of autonomic dysfunction. hot all the time, wide awake, etc. severe bipolar symptoms and stuggle with paranoia and schizoid feelings. I still have the verbal tics. I guess a label doesn't really do much for you anyway but its seems like something else than just drug withdrawal. 

 

So after i realized my symptoms were getting out of hand. I increased my dose. It helped but only while I was taking it. So I started taking it whenever I had symptoms. 6 or 700 mg at a time. I can't take that feeling anymore...its too much and not safe and i get too tense. I am down to about 900 a day again but sometimes I take it during the day. Some days the anxiety is brutal. Take small doses of zyprexa occasionally too. Its not helping me any to feel like that and I know that its better for me to take something sometimes. what im dealing with now is unique. seems terribly complex. I feel better for weeks after one use of zyprexa and it calms my brain back down. doesn't take everything away though. but I have to function. I am a manager at my job and I have to deal with the public. Doing well though in other stuff. Got my own place, back on my feet, etc but I still have a lot of bad days. 

 

I am worried that the gabapentin is keeping me from recovering fully. It has some concerning mechanisms of action and it messing with synaptogenesis etc. I know its all connected though. Want to get off of this stuff but am considering just staying on it for another year or so and calm down and not deal with crazy symptoms constantly. I need a long break and the other symptoms calm down but they are always there just less severe. so not sure what to do now. Wondering how long i should wait before I start tapering.  Thinking i am going to do a micro taper really slow. like 10 mg at a time slow. 

 

sorry for the turbulence and thanks for listening.