Alcohol, including wine and beer

June 15, 2023

@PortugueseSea how long did your wave from alcohol last? I ate some rice crackers a few days ago and only realised afterwards that it contained MSG. It must have been a lot of MSG because the crackers triggered a wave of symptoms. I know MSG and alcohol are two different substances, but they both affect the histamine and glutamate baalance in our neurotransmitters. Just wondering how long do waves from food/drinks last.

June 16, 2023

On rxisk, I read that red wine may help with akathisia. Does anyone here have experience with that? To me alcohol in general seems like a bad idea in withdrawal.

June 16, 2023

Our experience is that alcohol is bad. You can look at the thread here.

Omw

June 16, 2023

3 hours ago, RobertZ said:

On rxisk, I read that red wine may help with akathisia. Does anyone here have experience with that? To me alcohol in general seems like a bad idea in withdrawal.

That's coming from this thread - Risk.org - Akathisia

Quote

Akathisia sometimes responds to:

a benzodiazepine – this is mostly for SSRIs, SNRIs and tricylics

propranolol (beta blocker)

red wine for antipsychotics

Alcohol hits GABA in the same way as benzos, so sure, some people may find relief in alcohol. However, that relief is likely short lived and comes with a lot of problems, just like adding in a benzo. Alcohol affects the nervous system and can bring on paradoxical and kindling problems, not to mention creating adverse drug reactions with many psychiatric drugs.

As Onmyway noted, our experience here is that alcohol is bad. It's one thing that can derail a taper for a long time, so please don't look to it as a fix for akathisia (or any other withdrawal symptom). As you noted @RobertZ "alcohol in general seems like a bad idea in withdrawal."

A slow taper is the best idea.

June 17, 2023

On 6/16/2023 at 7:27 AM, Chompoo said:

how long did your wave from alcohol last?

I have never noticed a wave that I definitely traced to alcohol. As I mentioned, I definitely did react to dessert wine. In those cases I promptly went back to baseline the next day.

When I was over in Portugal (now I am back to Japan) I indulged in red wine frequently, just one or two glasses at the time. To be honest, and despite what David Healey stated in the link @Shep shared, I never experienced any benzo-like relief from it. Neither did I notice a worsening.

That article in particular terrifies me, for a different reason, this:

"In a proportion of those who have been on antidepressants or antipsychotics for a long time, it may take several months or more after discontinuation of the drug for the akathisia to wear off. For some, a residual amount may persist indefinitely, leaving the person unable to feel completely relaxed or emotionally content."

I keep asking myself how long "for a long time" means.

Urgh.

I am now trying to avoid alcohol altogether, which is hard due to my job. Maybe I will notice more windows and or shallower waves?

Bless

June 17, 2023

@PortugueseSea thanks for letting me know. Great your bad reaction to alcohol went away the next day. My reaction to MSG took several days to subside, but I might have worsened it by (i) taking some GABA supplements for sleep and (ii) overexerting myself packing for a home move.

I hope your akathisia will go away soon. All the best!

June 17, 2023

@Chompoo thanks man. I am working on more systematic symptom and well being charting. I will start posting them on my introduction thread. I hope that will help me figure out patterns. If you guys can see a connection between my sparse alcohol consumption and symptoms that would be even a bigger incentive to stop altogether. I am working on it and have cut consumption substantially. Tough for a born and bred south European.

I have noticed waves following difficult conversations with my parents, I have also noticed waves after lack of sleep. That is pretty much it.

While tapering the Mirtazapine I did feel quite agitated at times after each cut. That is gone, thank God.

My most distressing symptoms are 1) somatic discomfort, 2) Neck and Head pressure, heaviness, or piercing sensations, 3)neuro-emotions, mostly in the form of terror.
I equate the akathisia with all the three symptoms, though I guess I could be wrong.

Bless.

June 18, 2023

@PortugueseSea I'm a woman. It might be a good idea to cut out alcohol totally for at least a few months. Indeed, very little can trigger waves when we're in withdrawals, including difficult conversations and lack of sleep. How much sleep are you having these days? My bad reaction to the rice crackers is still causing me sleep problems and symptoms 6 days later. I had 8 pieces of the crackers but there was enough MSG in them to cause such a bad wave.

June 19, 2023

On 6/18/2023 at 10:13 AM, Chompoo said:

I'm a woman.

Very sorry xD

On 6/18/2023 at 10:13 AM, Chompoo said:

Indeed, very little can trigger waves when we're in withdrawals, including difficult conversations and lack of sleep.

It's funny you have just posted this because I think I have been able to confirm a definite reaction to alcohol for the first time!

On 6/18/2023 at 10:13 AM, Chompoo said:

My bad reaction to the rice crackers is still causing me sleep problems and symptoms 6 days later.

The rice cracker stuff is crazy, how sensitive can we be? I hope you feel better soon! I myself indulged in some cold meats and brie cheese tonight and it seems to have caused a slight worsening? Probably histamine I guess?

It is such a slow learning curve!

June 20, 2023

@PortugueseSea no worries on mistaking me for a man.

How did you confirm a definite reaction to alcohol for the first time?

Cold meats and brie cheese are high histamine food. Best to avoid them.

I prolonged my wave from the rice crackers by taking supplements to lessen the symptoms. In the end, they made me worse and I'm still suffering 8 days later. I'm the Queen of Self-Sabotage, haha.

June 23, 2023

Thanks!

On 6/20/2023 at 7:01 PM, Chompoo said:

How did you confirm a definite reaction to alcohol for the first time?

I basically had a temporary worsening that cleared after a couple days right after an evening when I ingested alcohol.

As of now, the only things I have confirmed trigger a wave are lack of sleep, magnesium glycinate and alcohol (generally more than a drink or two).

I am back into wave territory now after two or three days of poor sleep. Was doing pretty well for three or four days. I will post my notes on my introduction, you can check it out there =)

July 25, 2023

@brassmonkey I saw your comment on here from 2015 regarding setbacks. I was stabilized on a Prozac dose for 4 years after re-instating. I have been drinking socially for the past couple of months as I thought I was healed. I’m currently experiencing acute withdrawal symptoms now for 3 weeks and having some really good windows but following them are very bad waves. Will I ever stabilize again? I’m so incredibly upset I did this to myself.

July 26, 2023

@This2shallpass you're going to have to wait until your nervous system settles down, sorry to say.

January 19

Hi,

im just wondering if anyone has been in a similar. Situation that I can speak with. I was stable for 3 years on Prozac after a reinstatement. In Jan 2023 I started drinking pretty heavily every weekend. In July 2023 I crashed and started experiencing acute symptoms again. It’s now been 7 months. Does anyone know why it took so long for my nervous system to react? I was fine drinking for months. Also it seems people recover rather quickly from alcohol setbacks but I’m still struggling. Any thoughts?

fyi- I stopped drinking and will never touch alcohol again.

January 25

On 1/19/2024 at 9:50 PM, This2shallpass said:

Does anyone know why it took so long for my nervous system to react? I was fine drinking for months.

As our nervous system recovers, it can deal with more destabilizing factors, alcohol being one of them. By drinking heavily every weekend for months you slowly overwhelmed it.
It should settle, have you noticed any improvements during these 7 months?

January 25

On 1/19/2024 at 1:50 PM, This2shallpass said:

Also it seems people recover rather quickly from alcohol setbacks

Hi!

I don't know what lead u to this comment but that's not true. I crashed 2 times from alc and it's still ongoing for nearly 2 years now. I felt some reliefs but at least it destroyed me more and I am in a Worse situation then I was before. Sadly to say. But this It doesn't have to be ur story. Wish u the best.

January 26

Thank you @PortugueseSea, yes I’ve seen lots of improvements. The waves are not as intense, and the severe burning skin and restlessness is not as often. What you stated makes sense I appreciate your response.

January 27

On 1/25/2024 at 4:04 PM, Driksdog said:

I crashed 2 times from alc and it's still ongoing for nearly 2 years now. I felt some reliefs but at least it destroyed me more and I am in a Worse situation then I was before. Sadly to say. But this It doesn't have to be ur story. Wish u the best.

If you look around the thread, most crashes from alcohol fade within six months, in many cases in a couple weeks. Do not lose hope man, if you find alcohol affects you really badly stay off. You can still improve, our bodies know what to do to heal. I am sure you will recover in due time!

January 27

6 hours ago, This2shallpass said:

Thank you @PortugueseSea, yes I’ve seen lots of improvements. The waves are not as intense, and the severe burning skin and restlessness is not as often. What you stated makes sense I appreciate your response.

No problem, I know it is hard to stay optimism with this much suffering. I am living through the same, my waves are less intense, I am much more functional but... this still sucks bad...

January 27

It really is @PortugueseSea but we have to hang on. I just cant find anyone in my situation who was stable for so long so it’s discouraging and makes me think I may have something else going on or I’m the one who don’t heal and I damaged myself beyond repair. I wish you continued healing!

January 27

On 1/25/2024 at 2:04 AM, Driksdog said:

Hi!

I don't know what lead u to this comment but that's not true. I crashed 2 times from alc and it's still ongoing for nearly 2 years now. I felt some reliefs but at least it destroyed me more and I am in a Worse situation then I was before. Sadly to say. But this It doesn't have to be ur story. Wish u the best.

were you stable for years prior to your setback? I was stable for 3 years.

January 28

I was never really stable on that shxx pill stuff. I had direct adverse reactions. I was stable in healing after cold turkey it. Then I drunk and crashed with old and new symptoms. Now I really fell like it's a damage beyond repair. I wake up every morning with an hangover like after a extremely drunken night, I got headpressure and headaches, feel weak like an 80 year old man, aphatic... Etc.

I am out of pills since 2020 and the last crash was 2022 in February. So yes I think I am destroyed and no there is no stability in my life. Wish u it would better for u. BTW I took Prozac 20mg for 16 days. This was the biggest mistake in my life.

February 9

@Driksdog, I am sorry to hear that.
I also suffer from the same symptoms you mentioned.

Hope it gets better for both of us.

February 9

3 minutes ago, KaiLee said:

@Driksdog, I am sorry to hear that.
I also suffer from the symptoms you mentioned.

Hope it gets better for both of us.

Thanx! Wish u the best.

February 9

The brutal truth is that - even for healthy people not going through withdrawal - there is absolutely no safe amount of alcohol. It's a drug that does not have any health benefits whatsoever, only negative consequences.

My therapist summed it up when she said alcohol is 'a liquid benzodiazepine', and would I 'think it was okay to pop a few valium several times a week to relax'.

Like antidepressants, alcohol rewires the brain, in this case causing it to reduce the natural production of neurotransmitters like dopamine and GABA, which are vital for well-being and controlling anxiety. On top of that it damages the gut, further reducing the availability of serotonin, as well as preventing the absorption of vital nutrients. (Alcohol can also kill probiotics, so people taking them while drinking are often wasting their money).

And like antidepressants, these changes to the brain are long-term. It often takes several months, or years, of no alcohol for the brain to recover and restore natural levels of neurotransmitters.

This damage doesn't just apply to the stereotypical 'alcoholic' either, drinking at or around the maximum recommended number of units per week regularly will cause damage.

That's around 12-14 units (1.5 bottles of wine), in a 7-day period. Most people probably aren't aware that anything over that is classed as heavy drinking.

So for those of us in withdrawal, any alcohol really is pouring fuel onto the fire, putting extra stress on a brain and body that's already dealing with a huge amount.

My therapist also said she thinks it's ludicrous that people are put on antidepressants without even being asked about their alcohol and caffeine consumption - as she's had patients who've cut out both completely and found their issues with depression and anxiety have improved considerably. Even those who think they consume relatively small amounts have benefitted.

February 9

Well, this was a good Summary about that stuff. I don't drink any alcohol for 2 years now. Also no other drugs or meds.

U are right with all u saying about it. It's an neurotoxin and lots of ppl use it without any doubts.

At least I have to say... I also used it in the past alot and I had my problems with it. But it never destroyed me like psycho pills. Ending with DP, aphaty, sexual issues....! I never felt like I lost my soul. That's for me for over 3 years now.

February 10

13 hours ago, jon1 said:

My therapist also said she thinks it's ludicrous that people are put on antidepressants without even being asked about their alcohol and caffeine consumption - as she's had patients who've cut out both completely and found their issues with depression and anxiety have improved considerably. Even those who think they consume relatively small amounts have benefitted.

Very well put, I have completely come off coffee and I think it has helped. I am going to, sadly, give up chocolate. It might just be that even that is worsening my activation.

As for alcohol, now I rarely drink. But that rarely should be 0. I think it has caused me setbacks once or twice. As you mentioned, it does not help the brain whatsoever, it is negative escapism plain and simple.

That said, @Driksdog, @KaiLee, @This2shallpass, despair is not allowed. A setback is a setback, no matter how bad it is. The body has the ability to heal. Use it as a chance to improve your life habits and move forward!

We are all in this together!

February 10

Thank you @PortugueseSea I appreciate that! I’m trying to stay positive, but I’m getting brain zaps now. I don’t know if I’m in poop out or in a setback. I’m really panicking.

February 10

So, do u guys think I should also quit coffee? I still drink it. I know it is an stimulant. It gives me more Stomach acid. Maybe it also holds me back and gives me symptoms!?

February 10

39 minutes ago, Driksdog said:

So, do u guys think I should also quit coffee? I still drink it. I know it is an stimulant. It gives me more Stomach acid. Maybe it also holds me back and gives me symptoms!?

If you're suffering from issues, it's probably a good idea. I quit all caffeine (coffee, tea, diet drinks, and chocolate) just over six months ago, and while it was very difficult in the beginning, it's made a definite difference to my levels of anxiety and my sleep is much, much better.

As an added bonus, my acid reflux is pretty much gone, and my blood pressure dropped considerably.

Caffeine doubles the amount of stress hormones, like cortisol and adrenaline, in the blood. Those levels stay raised for up to 24 hours, even after only one cup. Meanwhile, the 'good feeling' - the initial dopamine hit - only lasts around 30 minutes.

It seems like SSRI withdrawal compromises our body's ability to 'mop up' stress hormones, so they hang around for a lot longer and at higher levels than they normally would.

Unfortunately, an awful lot of people around the world are on the 'caffeine in the morning as an upper, alcohol in the evening to relax' cycle, without even realising the issues it causes.

February 10

35 minutes ago, Driksdog said:

So, do u guys think I should also quit coffee? I still drink it. I know it is an stimulant. It gives me more Stomach acid. Maybe it also holds me back and gives me symptoms!?

In my experience, coffee is worst than alcohol if you suffer from activation, akathisia, or nervousness.

I am going to give up chocolate too, unfortunately.

February 10

6 hours ago, This2shallpass said:

Thank you @PortugueseSea I appreciate that! I’m trying to stay positive, but I’m getting brain zaps now. I don’t know if I’m in poop out or in a setback. I’m really panicking.

You are welcome! Either way, your way is down. Stabilize and drop. You know the drill!

Hang in there!

February 10

5 hours ago, PortugueseSea said:

In my experience, coffee is worst than alcohol if you suffer from activation, akathisia, or nervousness.

I am going to give up chocolate too, unfortunately.

Hey! No I am mostly flat like a pancake. No anxiety, no panic, nearly no emotions. Even the good once are gone. Only some grief is left. So coffee feels like nothing. My system feels like dead. Weakness, no power.... Headaches, burning neck an back.

February 22

On 2/10/2024 at 9:29 PM, Driksdog said:

Hey! No I am mostly flat like a pancake. No anxiety, no panic, nearly no emotions. Even the good once are gone. Only some grief is left. So coffee feels like nothing. My system feels like dead. Weakness, no power.... Headaches, burning neck an back.

If you do not feel any negative reaction from coffee it means it is okay for you.

Yeah, burning neck, I have that one on and off, it has been improving lately but it still is such a pain...

February 22

Hi!

Yes it's unbearable. Skin sensitivity is pretty high. Often clothes feel like they are made out of sandpaper. I try to where things which are mostly Smooth and aren't Rough Woven. Something like jackets with teddy Fabric inside it's pure pain in my back. Same time sound sensitivity is the highest. Smallest Noises are hurt like shxx. Feels like it comes from front loop, goes to the neck down to my back. I guess it's gluta imbalance. I remember having something similar but far lighter and short while before pills when I got Chinese food. It contains Flavor acting on gluta. Now it's every day stuff for me.

February 23

Hi @Driksdog

I have just read your signature and it says that your last crash was in 2022. Do you know what caused it?

Alcohol, including wine and beer

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