leahy Tapering off Remeron, headaches, nausea, sleep

[dalsaan]

It will take a couple of days to get your levels up but feeling a bit better is a good sign.

[leahy]

Yes, I will try to go to a liquid dosing. Thanks for your help, D.

[leahy]

I actually feel better today, the 3rd day of up dosing. I was scared it wouldn't pass, also. Very scared.  There must be hope. I felt so desperately unwell and was able rebound. I am so grateful.

 

I took Calms Forte last night when I woke up at 3 AM. That actually worked! Hallelujah!  I don't feel the sedating effects of the remeron at the lower doses. I wish I did. When I took 60 mg it knocked me out 2 hours later like clockwork. I feel poor sleep is a contributing factor to my headaches and feeling so sick.

 

I walked to town and back. Another accomplishment. Getting sun and exercise.

[dalsaan]

That's good news and I'm glad you got some exercise and some sun. Remeron doesn't do anything for my sleep either. Hasn't for years though even at the higher doses.

 

Have you tried sleep hypnosis? I have an app on my phone that helps

 

D

[leahy]

Yes, Dalsaan, I've been using sleep hypnosis with much success when I wake up at night to ruminating thoughts. That sleep hypnosis worked for me surprises me very much. It works like a charm. 

 

I was in a much better place last night, I could feel it.  When I woke up I only took Calms Forte and miraculously went back to sleep.

 

I wonder if the 15 mg tablets of Remeron are different than breaking the 30 mg in half. I had a problem with these before but if the pharmacy says they are 15 mg they ought to be 15 mg? Confusing. Now I am taking one and a half of the 15 mg tablets until I stabilize. Can't argue with a my body's reaction. Yes, I know I should get liquid. I'll figure that out someday soon.

[Hibari]

Just let yourself stabilize Leahy and I think the answers on next steps will get clearer for you.

 

H

[leahy]

I feel terrible physically, mentally and emotionally. I woke up at 4 AM this morning with a massive headache, sweating and nausea. It has to be bad to wake a person up. I updosed to 22.5 using the 15 mg tablets and for some reason it's not working. I felt better on half of a 30 for 4 weeks previous to this but then I had begun to feel sick again. 

 

I started taking one 15 mg tablet after that to see if my sickness was due to my irregular breaking although I am extremely careful about breaking tablets. Dalsaan suggested I try updosing to 22.5, which I did. I used the 15 mg tablets and felt better for a week but started to feel sick again. I'm so confused and tired of being sick. It ruins entire days and weeks and months. No one in my life believes me or cares. Except here on SA. I know you care.

 

I saw my pdoc and she doesn't believe it's wd. Something else is going on she says. Would I consider seeing a nuerologist? She asks. WD happens in 24 hours she says not 4 weeks or 2 weeks or 4 days. And wd is shaking she says. 

 

It's really hard to deal with this when my head feels like an ax was lodged into it and I want to throw up. I can't even go to bed early because I have to go to a wake. God help me. Please. This is making living very difficult.

 

I did ask about getting liquid mirtazapine but my pdoc doesn't know how. I told her I would look into it and have whatever pharmacy call her for the script. Maybe that will help...

[Hibari]

Hi Leahy,

 

I think you mentioned you had tapered your Xanax down a bit and were now trying to take it on an as needed basis.  I am wondering if that schedule is throwing you into mini wd every time it is not in your system.  I know when I was tried to taper Clonazapam, without knowing how to do it, I was trying to take it on an as needed basis.  I had been up to .50mgs, then .25mgs and then down to .12.50.  I would then try not to take it for a few days and then "give in" because I felt so sick.  I didn't have the knowledge I have now and to stay at a dose for awhile and then go down, very much like we are doing with the Remeron.    

 

So I'm wondering if first dropping the Xanax and then not having it consistently in your system is making you sick? 

 

I'm hoping others with experience with Xanax will respond as well.

 

You are not alone.

[leahy]

I've been taking 2 mg xanax for many months now. I use xanax at night to help me sleep. I take .5 before bed and that often works fine. When that doesn't work so I take another .5 mg before being able to sleep and the other 1 mg if/when I wake up in the middle of the night with a headache. Last night I did take another 1 mg at 4:30 AM in desperation.

 

If I don't sleep I get sick like this. I had to set my alarm to get to an appointment this morning and wasn't able to sleep enough.. Maybe if I had been able to finish sleeping I would feel better today. I know I can't wd totally from xanax until I am off remeron. 

And I need it at night.

 

Is it possible that taking Vitamin C last night threw me into a decreased level of mirtazapine? I just read in tips for tapering remeron that high doses of Vitamin C can do this. It was 500 mg so I wouldn't think it was high dose. Ilso took niacin. Maybe that was it. I'm going to give up taking supplements and see how that goes.

[Hibari]

Got it.  I wasn't sure if the Xanax was contributing but it sounds like you are taking it consistently during your Remeron wd. 

 

It's hard to know what supplements may be affecting or shifting how intense wd can be and maybe finding your baseline again without the supplements is a good place to start.

 

Not sleeping is such a pain and you're right it affects everything the next day. 

 

You have come so far Leahy-90mgs of Remeron down to 22.50mg,   It's a huge change for your body and you will get through this.

 

H

[leahy]

Last night I slept fine and today I feel fine. It must have been the supplements. Earlier in the day might be a better time to take supplements but for now I am stopping taking supplements for a while. 

 

Thank you so much.

 

L

[Hibari]

So glad you are feeling better Leahy. 

[leahy]

This constant headache and nausea is debilitating. I can't make decisions and deal with problems or move forward with this House business. Everything is overwhelming. I feel like a giant wooly mammoth.

 

This is has been a constant headache since February. Before that it was often but not constant. My internists thought I was having migraines, however the headaches do not respond to migraine medication. Both my internist and pdoc want me to see a neurologist. I don't think that would help. Lack of sleep or poor sleep is the trigger. I feel the only thing that helps is sleep. So I researched it once again in desperation yesterday...

 

I came across Hemicrania Continua. This apparently responds to Indomethacin. I do not want a prescription drug. I feel this is sleep related head pain. Melatonin has been reported to relieve HC. People report that "after months of Melatonin use, Indomethacin use was not necessary anymore. Just Melatonin, about 3 mg daily as immediate release formulation, suffices to manage HC."

 

So last night I took 1 mg of melatonin and 1 mg when I woke up after 2 hours. I managed to actually sleep much better. I still have pain but I think it is better. It's early in the morning so I will see how the day evolves.

 

I keep on trying...

 

L

[AliG]

Hi Leahy .

 

Just saying Hi .

 

I haven't heard of this H,C. What is that   ?   Be careful with the Melatonin . It has to be timed " right".  It's a hormone.

 

Ali.

[leahy]

Thank you, Ali.

 

HC is a persistent headache usually on one side of the head. I will be careful with melatonin. I was able to actually get some sleep last night so I am hoping this will help me. I still have a headache today but less severe. I've had this headache for nine months now. It feels like a hangover/sleep deprivation headache to me. Of course it is wd related. I know this. I've tried everything and so have my doctors. MRI's the whole bit. 

 

My next stop would be to a neurologist but I don't think I have tumor nor do I have much faith in doctors these days.

 

I also ordered Boswellia, something doctors recommend for this type of headache. I figure I don't have much to lose at this point.

 

I should have named myself Desperate instead of Leahy.

 

Desperate Leahy

[AliG]

Oh Desperate  Leahey ,

 

Don't give up !!    That must be really awful &  crappy , to say the least !   Headaches , aren't my thing, thankfully, but my heart goes out to you  !  Since, before February. !!   I can't even imagine that !  I can't stand it for one day !  Like you, no faith in doctor's . It's probably just W/D.    However, that's not to be taken lightly .  W/ D is " the Pits" !    All I can say is , keep going through it  !

 

Love    Ali.  

[dalsaan]

I think it's probably withdrawal but I would also consider the neurologist just to make sure it's nothing else. What is boswellia?

 

D

[leahy]

Hi D,

 

I think the headache is wd also. It is exasperated by non restorative sleep issues I have. My next step is to see a neurologist but I don't have high hopes there but I have reached my limit in terms of non functioning headache days and nights. Boswellia is an herb doctors use in treating this type of headache in place of an NSAID. Boswellia is an anti-inflammatory basically. I haven't received it yet but I do feel better after taking melatonin last night and was able to get some sleep. The headache is moderate today. We shall see if boswellia helps. Neither Imitex nor Fiorocet help at all. I am not interested in taking those but I have tried in desperation for relief. No relief to be had.

 

When I sleep well I do not have a headache. When I do not sleep the headache is severe. All day. All night. Until I sleep again.

HERBS

Boswellia

Boswellia serrata

Boswellia serrata is a large branching tree native to India, Northern Africa, and the Middle East. The trunk is tapped for its resin, which is purified and used in herbal preparations. The resin, known as frankincense, has been used in religious and cultural ceremonies since antiquity. This resin, or gum, also contains the primary active components, boswellic acids, used in modern herbal preparations. Clinical trials have demonstrated that boswellic acids have anti-inflammatory action similar to that of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDS). However, unlike NSAIDS, long-term use of boswellia does not appear to lead to irritation or ulceration of the stomach.

[AliG]

 Hi Leahey,

 

How's the headache and sleep issues going?    Did you try the " Boswellia" yet ?   Also , the Neurologist ?

 

Just checking in to see how you're going .

 

Ali.

[leahy]

This is my 3rd day using melatonin for sleep. I feel a whole lot better. I hope this lasts. Spreading out xanax .25 mg every 4 hours since now I think I can depend on melatonin for sleep seems to be working also. I'm hoping to wean off xanax as well, very slowly. Who knows what medication is causing the problem when Remeron and xanax are in the mix. It's clear to me now that xanax really doesn't help with sleeping. It was just knocking me out for  few hours and causing interdose wd in the middle of the night. Yes, I know this has been explained to me before. I should listen the first time.

 

I received the boswellia last night and took that also. I'm not sure if it made a difference but I do feel better today than I have in nine months. Mostly I feel like a normal person who got some restorative sleep.

 

My issue has always been sleeping. This all started with a sleep disorder 24 years ago. So I am terrified about the ramifications of no sleep. It makes me not just tired but physically ill with headache and nausea. It surprises me that I don't hear of anyone else with this problem. I also worry that when I get this ironed out that I will realize all those other feelings that come with withdrawal. 

 

One step at a time.

[AliG]

 Leahy,

 

As someone with a sleep problem as well, I can identify fully with your distress .I go days, without sleep and it has a very negative effect on everything. It " ripples" through your life , relentlessly causing " chaos" and " imbalance".   I don't get the headaches etc. , but I struggle with " low mood" and " neuro - emotions", and fatigue.   I'm so pleased that the Melatonin is working for you.  Can I ask , how much you're taking, and at what time ?  I might give it another go.

 

Like you said,  " one step at a time ".

 

Ali.

[leahy]

Ali,

 

The dose is 1 mg to start in the evening. If it isn't working I take another mg. If/when I wake unable to sleep in the night I take another. For this type of headache doctors (from my online reading) recommend 3 to 5 mg but I am leery of this so I start low and increase as needed. It is my hope that this will help regulate my sleep and I'll need less as I recover. I've tried many, many different things to help sleeping. I think some things work some of the time. I am learning that xanax was probably the worst way to go. 

 

I am actually surprised and grateful that melatonin is helping sleep and headaches. Trader Joe makes a .5 mg melatonin tab. I think I read that Alto takes a low dose every night when I was reading about it. I have found during my time on SA that Alto is very much on target and very helpful with her suggestions. Sometimes I think gee I read that before, why didn't I listen more carefully? I didn't know at the time that melatonin could also help the headache. So far, so good.

 

Keep me posted on how you do with it.

 

Best, L

[AliG]

 Thanks Leahy. 

 

I will take that on board. Like you, I have tried so many things, including melatonin.  Something must have put me off it.  Who knows what ?   I will try it again. Thanks for the input .

 

I will keep you posted.  And you, too.

[leahy]

I was put off to melatonin thinking maybe it was causing the headache. Now I think my irregular doses of xanax was more likey the contributing factor. I feel so much better today. I'm going to continue with melatonin. I am also taking Boswellia for headache.

 

Here is an article about Boswellia for headaches in case anyone is interested.

 

http://migraine.com/blog/boswellia-a-potential-herbal-remedy/

[leahy]

Doctors prescribe indomethacin for headaches. Melatonin is a far better solution for me than taking indomethacin or an anti seizure med like Topamax and it's working. Knock on wood. So far so good.

 

"Indomethacin is a drug that is not well understood. It is very similar to the brain hormone melatonin. Certain headache disorders are considered 100% indomethacin responsive. This means that all symptoms go away with the right dose of the drug."

[leahy]

I hesitate to post this because I am afrid I will jinx myself. I have NOT had a headache with the accompanying nausea since I started taking melatonin to sleep. Huge difference in how I feel. Now my symptoms are emotional but I am going to ignore them as best I can. For now. 

 

I don't notice any difference taking boswellia, though. Most often I forget to take it. Once thing at a time. I am extremely grateful I am able to sleep. And that I do not feel sick as a result.

[Hibari]

Leahy, I'm so glad you are getting relief from taking the melatonin.  Getting a good nights sleep is so helpful for healing.  

 

Thinking good thoughts for you.

 

Hibari

[dalsaan]

great to hear.   Im putting out good vibes to the universe for this to continue

 

D

[AliG]

 Leahy,

 

Me too . ( good vibes ).   Awesome  !    I'm pleased for you.    

 

Ali.

[leahy]

Just to note - my good sleeping seems to be an every other day thing, lately. Today I feel terrible, headache and nausea. Headache woke up in the middle of the night. I have no idea why. This happened two nights ago as well. The only thing I could think of on Wednesday night is that I had gotten a massage in the afternoon. Could that have stimulated me? I'm so confused about my symptoms. I almost feel normal when I sleep normally but when I don't I feel terribly sick. All day long I can only wish for the day to end. I waste so many days just waiting for them to end so I can feel better. Sometimes there are too many hours in a day.

[Hibari]

Hi Leahy

 

Do you think it is the Remeron wd symptoms showing up?  I see you made a cut in mid October and Remeron is known for it's delayed wd symptoms.  Mine always hit me two to three weeks from the time I make a cut.  

 

I know how frustrating it can be to have some days when we feel better and then those days are followed by icky days.  I think that this is the path of wd and it doesn't mean that all the effort you have been putting is for nothing.   All the research you do on wd, trying of new things, working on your house, all of that will pay off.

 

It will get better Leahy.  You are making steady progress and have been very strong-doing everything you can to make it through and you will.  I know you will.

[leahy]

Oh, Hibari, you are so kind! Thank you so much for the encouraging words. I feel so much better today. I was able to get some restorative sleep last night. I did wake up some and was extremely alert at 4 AM. Instead of getting up I took 2 mg melatonin and a tiny piece of xanax. Breaking my 2 mg dose of xanax into 16 pieces to take more regularly throughout the day, as has been recommended to me in the past, is helping keep me steady so I can taper that as well.

 

I called Bart's pharmacy to see if I can get a liquid. The compounding pharmacist isn't in but on Thursday I will give my pdoc the number to call it in. Yes, I did make a cut and I'm sure it's wd symptoms but the thing that makes the biggest difference is sleeping.

 

Honestly everything I do seems to be a result of taking remeron or NOT taking remeron. It permeates every cell and organ of the body. It is completely insane to prescribe this thing to human beings. I know saying this is repetitious but I can't help myself. The more I read, the more I know.

[leahy]

Hibari, 

 

How did you taper off xanax? Were you already off xanax when you joined SA? I don't remember reading about your experience with it. Do you have any suggestions for me?

 

I have been depending on xanax for sleep for years  but I am learning that xanax interferes with sleep stages 3 & 4, deep sleep. That can't be helpful to me. I have been trying many alternative solutions for sleep. Nothing works ALL the time, but if I can get around nighttime doses I would pretty much be done with xanax and maybe done with headaches as well.

 

I am currently taking 1.5mg broken into small pieces throughout the day. I don't feel like I need any during the day but read that this is the way to wean off...

 

L

[leahy]

My pdoc didn't want to call for a liquid for mirtazapine. I don't think she's ever done it so she was hesitant. Everything feels so complicated. She insists hydroxyzine can help me. I got a script for Soltabs and am making a liquid suspension. I ordered a beaker and syringes to accurately measure.

 

Last night was my first night. I used a measuring cup cause the beaker hasn't arrived yet. I made 150 ml stirred briskly and drank 100 ml aiming for 2/3 of 30 mg which would be 20. I have had a bad headache for many days now. After a couple of hours, worried about the change, I drank the rest of it. I was too scared to risk having another headache today and didn't want to chance that. On some level I feel like a failure. My head is much better today though. Only a bit of pressure and tension which is much more tolerable.

 

By the way CVS gives out free syringes. I was told they have to give out 10 free syringes if asked. Some kind of law in the US. They did have a basket of syringes right by checkout at the pharmacy.

[leahy]

God. I felt almost normal yesterday after my 30 mg soltab last night. How off can I be? I must be tapering too fast...

 

I got so much done today even cooking dinner for my son and his girlfriend. They love my spinach pie but it's so much work that it's been a very long time for them waiting for this day. I went with my son to buy a washer/dryer today, then out for lunch. His w/d broke. We even went out looking at kitchen stuff with his gf got home. Most days I can't do any of this. Most days I am barely functioning. Sad but true.

 

I guess I need to rethink my approach to tapering. Time is passing me by when I struggle with head pain to the point of being unable to make phone calls or decisions not to mention being available to the ones we love.

 

But today I feel terrible. I took 25 mg of the soltab last night - seemed reasonable to me since I was at 18.75 before the switch. Couldn't get to sleep until 1:30 AM - always a recipe for disaster for me. Insomnia then hangover headache the day after. I don't understand what happens to me. It felt so right to feel normal the day before.

[AliG]

 Leahy,

 

I haven 't read back through your thread. I will, maybe tomorrow, but  please don't taper too fast !  You need to be a slow "turtle " or "snail", in this process. Slow & steady , wins the race.  Read  the tapering section, again and maybe Brassmonkey's thread.  He goes extra slow, with his " Brassmonkey slide".  Go by how you're feeling, with no preconceived ideas about  time or the length of time , it will take.  It's so much better to be stable, and functional.  I wish I had known about tapering. 

 

Love,

 

Ali.