success ☼ Skyler, the benzo-Lyrica connection

[Skyler]

Instead of an X-acto knife, how about the pointy end of a little pair of scissors? Or a tweezer?

 

Hey there, problem solved! They seem to have come back to life when I parked the pill bottle in front of the air conditioner sans the top. I can't believe it!!! I also got the vitamin packet type things to dry out the pills (and keep them dry).

 

AND I wrote the names of the solutions on the top of the vials (nothing like screwing up the first day to get a grip), and have the syringes you recommended at long last. They are wayyy better, and I will be able to micro taper the meds I'm on. There is an assortment, 1ml, 5ml, 10 ml, and 20 mls.. Also, I was not shaking the vial of lyrica well enough, so I'm actually counting 5 or better good shakes for both suspensions. Gotta take the guess work out..

 

High School chemistry anyone?

[marystone78]

Hey...sorry your having all this trouble...hope you find the script! Have a nice weekend, how are ya feeling?

Mary

[Skyler]

Hey...sorry your having all this trouble...hope you find the script! Have a nice weekend, how are ya feeling?

Mary

 

Thanks Mary, I'm sorry to hear your husband's step father died. Cancer is so very difficult on everyone. You must be ever so glad to feel well enough to get there. And glad you stabilized so well on .5 mgs. This speaks well for your response to the drug, so your taper may not be as difficult as you are envisioning. And the tablets are very easy to dissolve in water. I'm going to be doing a micro taper off.. dropping what at the top is 1/50th of the dose a day. You need to get Alto's thoughts, but maybe you can start at the same rate, and then see how it's effecting you.

 

I have to be the forum klutz for tapering and mixing. One of the side effects I'm having is distractibility and I'll be enormously glad when I am only tapering ONE medication. The syringes I picked up are light years better and will allow micro tapering diazepam.

 

I'll look forward to watching how you proceed. I don't think the taper you are looking at should be all that bad, as long as you are not overly optimistic at the outset. Go get em Mary, you are almost there! ~S

[marystone78]

Thanks for the nicce post...YES, I'am almost done with these brain altering beasts! Been a rough road but, I'm doing it...and so are YOU!!! You will be donw before you know it, glad your syx's are not bad. I wiil keep ya posted when I begin my taper like I said way too much on the plate here. Our stepfather didn't die of cancer, he fell and broke his neck, was in an induced comma, on a ventilator. The family decided to take him off life support. It's my husband of only 2 years that has cancer, he is the love of my life! It is prostate cancer, early stage. He has further testing to make sure it has not spread...don't know yet, we don't think it has, just want to be sure. So we go from there... When I was coming off of the Requip, everything was magnified, I was having nightmares about cancer, would wake up in terror, can't do that right now! Thanks for your support, I have you to thank for helping me and leading me to this site! :rolleyes: I'll check up on ya!

Mary

[Skyler]

Our stepfather didn't die of cancer, he fell and broke his neck, was in an induced comma, on a ventilator. The family decided to take him off life support. It's my husband of only 2 years that has cancer, he is the love of my life! It is prostate cancer, early stage. He has further testing to make sure it has not spread...don't know yet, we don't think it has, just want to be sure. So we go from there... When I was coming off of the Requip, everything was magnified, I was having nightmares about cancer, would wake up in terror, can't do that right now! Thanks for your support, I have you to thank for helping me and leading me to this site! :rolleyes: I'll check up on ya!Mary

 

Your step father.. what a terrible shock that must have been, and what an ordeal. Strong decision by family, and obviously the right one. Let me know what you hear about your husband's cancer.. that's a trail, but prostate cancer can be effectively dealt with in the majority of cases.

 

 

I'm doing REALLY well. Tonight I heard, for the fist time in 3 months... SILENCE. I was preparing the syringes for the night, and realized there was NO sound. It has come back, but ever so faint.. and the moment of silence, unbelievably precious. WOW. Amazing. This is definitely looking up. Hope Rules.

[xDebbiejo]

Great news Schuyler !!!!!

 

Happy you are finding relief

 

Debbie x

[Skyler]

Great news Schuyler !!!!!

 

Happy you are finding relief

 

Debbie x

 

Hi Debbie.. Time I put my withdrawal experience into perspective. Given a 2 year withdrawal history, (hmm, my anniversary date is July 10), I have had remarkably few withdrawal symptoms. I was lucky enough to realize I did not know how to get off klonopin, so joined a good forum before I had a chance to develop neurosensitization. A number of years before I had tried to get off, and reduced the dose by 75%.. but ran into rebound insomnia that was like a wall.

 

The first day on the Board, I 'met' someone who became a one on one coach. She put me on the 10% decrement of the previous dose, hold once a month taper protocol. She said the slower route was very important given my age and the 20 years I had been on K. Every time I got antsy, wanted to go faster, she 'sat' on me, virtually speaking that is. She said the emergence of withdrawal symptoms were a sign the taper was too rapid. She eschewed the idea that the presence of withdrawal symptoms were proof the drug was leaving my system (this idea was rampant on the benzo forums, a badge of honor if you will).

 

The only time I had significant global symptoms was during the cross taper to diazepam. There was a drop when I went from 1.5 mgs K (30 mgs diazepam equivalent) to 20 mgs diazepam in 6 weeks in order to avoid the sedative effect. The cross over was bumpy and I had a 'taste' of way cortisol effects mood, muscle cramping, rebound insomnia, etc. From this experience, I learned in no way did I want to push the withdrawal envelope, go faster than symptoms would allow once I got to 15 mgs d. My coach told me tapering at higher doses of benzos was possible due to something called the 'saturation' effect. From 20 mgs d to 14 mgs, I held for 3 weeks, then for the remainder it was 4 weeks each drop. Without fail, every time I tried to go faster I'd get symptomatic. Go that rate of slower, no symptoms. It was like turning a faucet on or off. And the fact I was so sensitive to the hold times really saved my butt.

 

Before I started the taper.. (in hind sight, this was one of the symptoms that made me realize all was not well).. I was put on Requip for severe RLS. The RLS were akasthisia like, and my arms and upper legs were involved. Now I'm tapering off Requip, it's not a real bad guy compared to klonopin.. so a micro taper over the course of a couple of months will probably do. And I ran into problems with Lyrica which was prescribed for pain. Tinnitus, a bell weather symptom, has been omnipresent and emerges fist. Meaning, as long as I'm mindful to take cuts that do not increase the 'bells and whistles', other withdrawal symptoms are at bay. So the tapering continues apace. And because my system responds to tapering as it does, I've have thankfully been able to avoid the type of severe symptoms I've read about here.

[Nikki]

Micro cuts really make a difference, that is what I notice for myself.

 

Just curious, did Lyrica really help with Fibromyalgia pain? I had no idea until I came onto this site, that it is another crazy me....

 

Hugs

[Skyler]

Micro cuts really make a difference, that is what I notice for myself.

 

Just curious, did Lyrica really help with Fibromyalgia pain? I had no idea until I came onto this site, that it is another crazy me....

 

Hugs

 

It helps with neuropathic pain, but not trigger point pain. Err, what is 'another crazy you'?? (kind of thought one was enough?)

[broomegirl]

 

HI schuyler,

as you know im new here havet had much people trying to help me yet im on my benzo tapper 5.5 Valium have been on it 12 yrs ve failed twice i wnt to make it this time ,my trouble they put me on mirtazipine to help me get off the benzo and now have found out they both do the same.,i wish there was some one here that could tell me for sure that the benzo should go first,

 

I know for sure one thing and that the AD im on takes at least 12-24 mths to tapper im on 22.5 of mirtz i am on the bb site and most say get rid of benzo first,but now i dont know wt med should go first i suppose after all these yrs on benzo im tolerant wnt off in july last year then doc put me bk on it so i have been tappering this time since march this year doing a tapper of.5 every three-four weeks was put on 10mgs now down to 5.5.

 

I hope some one may be able to say to me for sure yes yr doing theright thing getting rid off benzo as they are bad **** but now i heard the med im on is more toxic than benzo

 

oohh what to do doctors are no help they want me on more drugs and i want to be free if you know of someone that can help that will be good

 

BG

 

Hi Broomegirl, No one can answer for sure, but what makes the most sense is taper the med causing the most symptoms first.

 

The rule of thumb on this forum, and one I agree with, is to taper the AD first as ADs are more activating (common speech.. cause more problems!). I know the benzo forums advise withdrawing the benzo first, I was active on TRAP for 18 mos, and now on BB for some mos. They believe tolerance withdrawal will cause difficulties if you hold. To add to the confusion, BB is like the Wild Wild West these days because there are so many people using the forum (several big benzo forums have closed recently, so BB is overwhelmed), and it's hard to separate those with real knowledge from well meaning folk who have little understanding. We believe tolerance withdrawal is a myth and unfortunately used to get people to continee tapering even when it is best for them to hold. Go here for an in depth discussion of tolerance withdrawal.

 

The side effect profile from ADs is more severe than from benzos, so I think they are wrong.

 

You need to do what is right for you. So I don't need to reread your thread, a few questions? What is the reason you want to come off the benzos first.. in symptoms, not according to feedback from BB. How are they making you feel. For the ADs.. what side effects are you having from them.

 

[broomegirl]

Hi schulyer,

 

i have gone through all yr posts and yr discusions on benzo and AD's an have come to the conclusion that my AD is causing me more problems as one that has been caught on benzo for so long i always wanted off them i still do but believe with all the suport here that my AD is causing more health issues and i am going to get stable for a couple of weeks and then start a slow tapper off my AD for so long my ad has given me more and more problems more than the benzo ever have,i wish i never was put on my AD but now i believe getting off my AD is more an issue and since im on 5mgs of valium i believe it will help me as i come off my AD.

 

Thanks for all yr help and im sure i will get suport here from alot of people

talk soon take care

trace

[broomegirl]

WOW schuyler,

didnt realize you were on K, for so long i felt i was the only one on bnzo's so long so you can see why i have been so confused by this mater,i know i will get rebound insomnia from my AD and anxiety ect but the side effects from mirtz is just too much to bare now so i will stay on my 5mgs of valiuim and get stable for at least a couple of weeks more before i start with my AD tapper.

 

Thanks again for yr help with helping me decide witch road is the best to take i have read a few people's posts that have been on mirtz and they did have a bad time comming off, but i think we all will go through a bad stage as these drugs are just problomatic to us all.

 

wish me luck

talk soon

trace

[Skyler]

Update and Question

 

After holding for 2 months, I started to taper and ran into trouble with the first cuts.. but not big time as I was very alert to any signs of tinnitus, and stopped on a dime. More a matter of finding my 'sweet spot'.. Depending on how one looks at it, I'm either cursed or blessed with the type of withdrawal symptoms I have.. no lag time for me. Withdrawal symptoms show up immediately. The was true in the benzo taper, and same with Lyrica and Requip. So now I have a battle plan for future cuts (when doing the 3, focus on one then take very small cuts of the others on off weeks so I get to see how each is effecting me. I think this will still be possible even while a judicial benzo mt is ongoing.)

 

Having gotten tinnitus to zero not long ago, I know my windows and waves pattern.. I'm reducing the benzo at a very low speed and the tinnitus continues to abate.. at least this is a cautious assessment. I held outright before and that did not sit so well... crawling seems to work!

 

Two considerations: LYRICA is causing side effects which make me want a lower dose yesterday.. and the benzo is being tapered because I forgot to take it for those few days and don't trust myself not to forget again in future due to the unconscious resistance to holding. (I should be off the benzo in about 3 mos, maybe a little longer which will be a relief).

 

What did you mean when you said Requip was a good candidate for an mt? Did you say this because the taper is by mls as opposed to mgs? This is where I got into trouble this last week.. oh how wishful thinking does us in.

 

So the battle plan is: taper by .05 mgs diazepam in mt cuts per week, 12.5 mgs Lyrica in mts a month, and 1 unit Requip a month. Based on the last week, this should be manageable. And maybe I can go a tad faster when the benzo taper is finished. ~S

[Skyler]

Alto, do you know how I'd get the NDC number for a 2mg per 5 ml solution of diazepam? My pharmacist is saying this does not exist, and I know it does, but he said he would look further if I had that number. (He is also saying he does not know what I'd want it for as the dosing options are less with the weaker strength.. sigh)

 

Err, is this avail. in Europe only? I did a Google and keep coming up with UK sites. Thanks

[Altostrata]

I'd have to Google also. Look for diazepam liquid NDC. You might not be able to find it 2mg/5mL, it might be available in another concentration.

 

A compounding pharmacy would be able to make it to your specifications (with a prescription).

[Skyler]

Nope.. I find the 1 mg to 1 ml solution, but not the 2 mg to 5 ml. Guess I keep getting eyestrain when reading the syringe. Thanks for your reply.

[Barbarannamated]

Schuyler,

im sorry I have been so self-absorbed and not supporting you. You do so much for me and everyone. THANK YOU!

[Barbarannamated]

Hey Schuyler,

Just checking on you. Not sure if you disappeared to another thread, perhaps benzo area..? I feel like ive missed several days.

 

I hope you're doing ok.

 

B

[Skyler]

Hey Schuyler,

Just checking on you. Not sure if you disappeared to another thread, perhaps benzo area..? I feel like ive missed several days.

 

I hope you're doing ok.

 

B

 

Hi Barb, thanks for asking. I'm mostly doing well. Of late I've been too indirect, lacking in clarity or off on a tangent with forum replies, so I thought to pull back for a while.

 

Did you get any of the tests you need, any further word. How is it going with the steriods. Is there anyway you can tolerate using them?

[tezza]

Hi Schuyler ,

 

Thanks for checking in, you were missed.

 

Love,

 

Tezza

[Rhiannon]

Just another hello, Schuyler! howdy. :-)

[Barbarannamated]

Schuyler,

I hadn't noticed any tangents but then I'm busy on my own. .

 

Yes, taking the Cortef but - whew! - mood and cognition are all over the place. Thinking is very tweaked. Just reading and comprehending messages is difficult at certain points in the day.

 

Always love your input.

[tezza]

Schuyler,

im sorry I have been so self-absorbed and not supporting you. You do so much for me and everyone. THANK YOU!

 

 

Hey Schuyler,

 

I could say this instead of Barb, Barb is always helping others just as you do. Thank you for all you do!!!

 

Love,

 

Tezza

[Skyler]

Hi Schuyler ,

 

Thanks for checking in, you were missed.

 

Love,

 

Tezza

 

Thanks for missing me!

 

 

Just another hello, Schuyler! howdy. :-)

 

Hey there.. good to see. I'm sure no one would believe it, given my slow responses, but I really appreciate hearing from you all...

 

 

Schuyler,

I hadn't noticed any tangents but then I'm busy on my own. .

 

Yes, taking the Cortef but - whew! - mood and cognition are all over the place. Thinking is very tweaked. Just reading and comprehending messages is difficult at certain points in the day.

 

Always love your input.

 

Tangents are some better, for now anyhow. Been watching the 'Lympics.. thinking of you when I see the horse events and wonder how much abuse happens all the way up the line that brings the wonderful tricks they show.

 

Hmm, I'm thinking of using my blog to talk eating , chocolate etc. I gained AND lost 60 lbs since on Lyrica and I'm still on a high dose.. but I get so ***__ frustrated obsessing about food. ALL THE TIME!

[Skyler]

Errr Alto or Rhi.. I just did an OOPS!

 

Mixed Lyrica, thought it was too warm a suspension, so ahhhh, put it in the freezer <wince> to cool and promptly forgot. I made more, but am thawing the first batch. Any chance it is okay? (I mix several pills at once...)

[Altostrata]

I have no idea.

[Skyler]

hehehe.. I'm sure you loved that one. Solution.. take one dose from that vial daily until it's gone. As Lyrica is QID, I should not torpedo down before I find out if the solution took a hit. Sheesh, I really wanna start a liquid taper 101 thread.

[Altostrata]

Go ahead, good idea.

[Skyler]

On my goodness. This will be get the last mention in the Liquid Taper Foibles (101) thread I'll be starting. I'm going to cut and paste my misteps put said into the first post. I tried to use plain old recall and could not do justice.

 

K... here is the latest. About 2 weeks ago, I unwittingly took a 10% cut in Lyrica. (DUH??) Ayup.. did just that. How one might ask.. welll, easy. I was mixing 600 mgs of Lyrica with 60 mls of H20 for a 10 to one ratio.. So I said, self, how about mixing 900 mgs at a time, be a little easier. So to make the whole thing nice and neat, I mixed 400 extra mls of water for a total of 1000 mls Uh Ohhhh, bad math. Right, if one sees the error. But if this is not offset somewhere in the dosing, it makes for a 10% cut, which I took without realizing there was a reason for tinnitus going off the Richter for a coupla days. Not so bad now though, maybe a 2. I did wonder why my memory seemed to start improving, and no cut. Oh welll, no time to fight success.

 

SIGHHHHH. Sometimes I don't think my poor ears stand a chance.

 

Now Alto... I can see you typing "Now Schuyler Dear" as you shake your head woefully.

[Skyler]

Also: If you ever do decide to come off the RLS medication, take a look at weighted blankets as a therapeutic option. OTs use them for various things, some of us in benzo w/d find them helpful, and apparently people are finding them helpful for RLS as well.

 

Sometimes it's nice to read through old posts.. just found this and will keep it in mind. Very interesting. Good tip.

[Altostrata]

Now Schuyler Dear -- no, really, at least you caught your mistake. Do start that topic!

 

Interesting that reducing Lyrica too much gives you that specific symptom. It's your own personal "danger" sign.

[Skyler]

Now Schuyler Dear -- no, really, at least you caught your mistake. Do start that topic!

 

Interesting that reducing Lyrica too much gives you that specific symptom. It's your own personal "danger" sign.

 

I've gone thru 1/2 of the back posts, ohhh, there are lots of errors, not so many hits or runs. Or maybe so LOL, with the help of the Surviving Crew. Heh, I have up dosed, down dosed, in dosed and out dosed. The only type I've missed is a dosey doe dose.

 

I'm down to almost 200 mgs Lyrica (YEAH!), as I did not catch the mistake until last night... C'est la vie. Better to know than inadvertantly updose again at some point, though it was probably a matter of time before I caught the error. Tinnitus has been the only prominent symptom since my first contact with you. There are some RLS issues if I taper too fast, and some insomnia, neither pronounced. Yep.. Tinnitus is the bell weather symptom. Thanks for your feedback.

 

I need math 101 too. Think?

[Skyler]

Hi Schuyler--I'm so sorry about the fall and the increase in your fibro symptoms. Gentle hugs...

 

Just because you're gently tapering your Lyrica doesn't mean you have to suffer. Like you say, you may be able to find a lower dose that helps with the pain but still gives you relief from the worst of the side effects. I noticed with my Neurontin taper that my cognitive problems improved all the way down in the taper.

 

There's lots of room between all and nothing. (My current favorite Rhiannonism.)

 

Congratulations on getting back to work. You rock! your own resolve and inner strength is a force to be reckoned with!

 

Rhi.. your responses are lovely. I'm sorry not to have gotten back to you in a prompt way of late. I get 'key tied' when answering posts that have a warm and loving message. Just know that this old salt really appreciates the way you 'shine' through the letters.

[Skyler]

Hey Alto.. withdrawal from Lyrica. Tinnitus as a withdrawal symptom seems to be in a separate playbook, different parameters. It's like tinnitus is triggered by percipetous drops as opposed to cumulative reductions. These last few days have been instructive... (I'm actually not sure where I was with the screw up.. but I have been 'easing' the dose down to 200 mgs (now at 207)). I'm sure I would hit the wall with flu like symptoms if I got too far ahead, but tinnitus seems to work on a different 'clock'. Have you run into this before. Tinnitus more as a withdrawal side effect (shows up right away), as opposed to withdrawal symptoms brought on by exceeding going too fast a given time frame, the accumulation of lag time (GI symptoms, RLS.. insomnia, etc.) ??

 

So two discrete types of withdrawal. The profile is different. To avoid tinnitus, I drop 2 ccs for each cut, eg cuts of 2 mgs each QID over several days. With each, there has been an uptick for 2-3 hours, then it simmers down, and rinse cycle repeat. The symptoms are not cumulative as they do not get worse with each successive small cut. But if I hit flu like symptoms, and pushed forward the same way, I'd be quite sick and my system would become sensitized. Maybe neuroplasticity as opposed to neurosensitization?

[Barbarannamated]

Withdrawal SYMPTOM vs withdrawal SIDE EFFECT..

 

Gotta wrap my head around that. I give all of you doing slow tapers MUCH CREDIT.

[Skyler]

Withdrawal SYMPTOM vs withdrawal SIDE EFFECT..

 

Gotta wrap my head around that. I give all of you doing slow tapers MUCH CREDIT.

 

To clarify: There may be different types of withdrawal? In this case, neuroplasticity and neurosensitization. The former occurring by the establishment of new neural pathways, the latter by sensitizating previously established connections.

 

The reason I'm interested is because I've been adjusting the rate of my taper based on the presence or absence of withdrawal symptoms, the first type as described above. There are qualitative changes, symptoms wax and wane but do not increase in intensity. So it seems possible to move forward when I've been holding. (As long as the cuts are judicious). Thoughts?