Roadback1: In need of wise advice

[roadback1]

Hello to everyone at SA,

I have been a member since 2011, when I started tapering Zoloft.I have taken it for 20+ years for anxiety and depression that I had since childhood.

 

It has been a very rocky road tapering this medicine,but, I have managed to reduce from the highest dose of 150 mgs. down to 37.5 mgs at the lowest.(2015).

 

In September of 2014,I was holding at 75 mgs., and a lot stress that I was not able to handle ,put me in a downward spiral that frightened me.

I had panic attacks,anxiety,shaking and started stuttering. I could not go anyplace, or remember words while trying to carry on a conversation.I thought I was "losing it". I had to take time off from work.

 

My chiropractor had started offering a neurofeedback training course, called braincore, at his office.It is supposed to help retrain your brain waves to a more normal pattern and I was hoping it would help with the anxiety and depression so I could reduce zoloft more easily.My psychiatrist was on board with all of this,and supported my tapering.

 

I did 20 sessions, and along with learning Eft and taking Bach remedies,was able to lower the zoloft to 50 mgs. by Christmas.(I lowered first to 62.5 mgs). The symptoms of stuttering,talking etc. faded away although I did still have some anxiety that would get ramped up if my training session went longer than 15 minutes.

 

I started 10 more sessions in January, and, lowered my dose again to 44 then 37.5 mgs.

I also left my old job, started a new one,and again,came under a lot of stress and started having anxiety,panic attacks and dizziness,even at work.

Since starting the neurofeedback,old emotions and memories had started bubbling up, (along with the zoloft taper) and I had to do a lot of "tapping" to get thru it.I also started waking up to panic in the morning.

 

In March,I started waking up during the night to find myself shaking and shivering like I was cold.

Sometimes I felt it during the day,too,like when I was at the store,etc. I was on 37.5 mgs of zoloft.

 

In April,the left side of my body started feeling tense,like a fist.My shoulders hunched up to my ears,and I would shiver and shake and panic.I could not sleep without jolting awake .My brain felt tingly,and I would wake up to brain zaps,and loud pops.

 

I don't know what is going on! Is it cortisol,thyroid,hormones,a too fast taper?

I did stop the neurofeedback( probably for good), and I called my psychiatrist,who suggested I updose to 50 mgs. On 5/2/15, I increased to 44mgs.and have held there for a week.I had two days of feeling the shaking was decreasing,but,it came back hard today.

 

I have had a thyroid test done,and hormone saliva test as well,but,am still waiting for the results.

I take only fish oil and magnesium, because of being so sensitive to supplements.( as most of us here are).

 

Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I updose back to 50 mgs. Until I stabilize?

My husband thinks I hurt myself with braincore and irritated my brain.

 

Thank you to everyone for reading this long post.

[Altostrata]

Hello, Roadback.

 

It does indeed sound like you were reducing too fast, braincore notwithstanding. Please see Why taper by 10% of my dosage? and Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

It may take some time after an updose for your nervous system to settle down. You may still have waves and windows of symptoms for some time, see The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

Your nervous system needs stability now. Please be sure to take Zoloft at the same time each day.

[roadback1]

Thank you,Alto. I was really hoping I wouldn't get hit with symptoms while doing braincore and tapering,but, you are right. It was too fast.

 

I will indeed read those topics.

 

I am still unsure about if it would be better for me to stay at the 44mgs.of zoloft that I am at now,or to go up to the 50 mgs my doctor suggested.I was on 37.5 mgs. ?

[Altostrata]

There's no way to tell in advance. It will take 4 days or more for the 44mg to fully register in your system. You might give it a week. If symptoms lessen, you might stay at 44mg.

[roadback1]

Has anyone on this forum experienced the shivering,shaking,feels -like -your -shoulders -will -touch -your -ears muscle tension?

What find you do to relieve it?

It's kind of scary because it's only on my left side!

[roadback1]

Sorry.

What DID you do to relieve it? Love how auto correct makes up its own words!

[roadback1]

I have been on 44mgs. of zoloft since 5/2 and I am not waking up as often during the night with the shivering and shaking.

The tension on my left side ( shoulders hunched up,jaw clenching,neck tension) are not as constant or intense.

 

I did quit my healthcare job, because of the hours, stress, and I just did not like it there.I had to force myself to go in and would get panic attacks every day there.It was not worth that .

I will look for another part time job when I feel better.Right now, I could not even manage to get thru an interview.

 

I see my psychiatrist on Thursday. He is very kind, and has totally supported my taper and the neurifeedback.He does not try to change or add meds to me, and encourages me to use exercise, good food, relaxation methods etc. to help me .

 

I pray all of us on this forum will regain our physical and mental health and be the person God created us to be.

[roadback1]

Still waking up with shivering/ shaking, and slight panic. It continues during the day again.

It feels like my brain is vibrating sometimes.

It's been 2 weeks on the 6.5 mg. updose, but, symptoms are still there,although not as strong.

 

I saw my regular doctor yesterday, and my lab tests indicate extremely low b12 and vit d levels, plus my thyroid numbers are off.

I don't know if these could cause my symptoms?

Still waiting for the saliva test results, and then will see what the chiropractor and nutritionist say.I want to use whole foods, very low supplementation if I can.

 

My son has a chorus concert tonite, and, I know I wont be able to go to it. This stinks!

I usually can manage to go to such things, even though I have struggled with agoraphobia my whole life even before meds.

I just can't sit there tonite with all the noise,and lights, and the shivering going on.

[Flowers]

So sorry you are not well enough to go along to the concert. I have to keep away from noise and lights too.

 

Hope things begin to settle for you soon.

 

Flowers x

[roadback1]

Thank you, Flowers.

 

I hope things improve for you as well.

Also, a belated Happy Birthday to you!!

 

Roadback

[Altostrata]

Low B12 and vitamin D could indeed add to neurological susceptibility.

 

You might try very, very cautiously adding very small doses of sublingual vitamin B12, and if that goes well, very low doses of vitamin D to your daily regimen.

 

How have your withdrawal symptoms changed over the last 2 weeks?

 

How much fish oil and magnesium do you take? See
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

[roadback1]

Hi Alto,

 

I try to take 300 to 400 mgs. Of magnesium glycinate daily,plus 1200 mgs fish oil,too.,plus Epsom salts baths.

 

My symptoms are:

My neck ,shoulders and stomach tense up and it feels like I'm shrugging my shoulders and they froze that way.Then I start to shiver. I have to consciously breathe and force them down. Two weeks ago,it was my left side that was so tensed,it felt like a fist.

The intense shivering during the night has lessened,and I don't wake up as much or as panicky.

My head feels heavy and hurts,sometimes, but, most head symptoms are on the left side.

 

I don't know if I should increase,decrease or hold. I am afraid of serotonin syndrome, and hope I don't already have it.

 

What brand of sublingual B12 would you suggest?

 

Thank you so very much,Alto! Where would we be without you and Surviving Antidepressants......

 

Roadback

[Altostrata]

Are you taking drugs other than Zoloft? If not, it's unlikely you have serotonin syndrome.

 

If you are taking additional drugs, please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and post the results in this topic.

 

You might take more fish oil. See the Symptoms forum for suggestions regarding supplements.

 

Acupuncture might help those symptoms.

[roadback1]

Alto,

I take 20 mgs of propranolol a day and have been for 40 years, for heart palpitations.But, that is all I take.

 

I did check the interaction and have never had any symptoms.(I don't know how to add this file to my thread on my Ipad)

 

Would you suggest I still hold then, or increase the zoloft to 50 mgs?

[roadback1]

It has been 4 years of tapering and holding.

I have gotten down to 1/3 of my highest dose.

The withdrawal symptoms are ramped up right now.

I may have to sit here for awhile,but, that's okay.

By God's grace, I can do this.

[apace41]

Hi, Roadback.

 

If you are finding that you are improving, even slightly, with the smaller updose, it seems to me that the right choice for now would be to stay on the lower dose with the hopes that you continue your upward trajectory.  The smallest increase needed to alleviate the symptoms is going to be the one you aim for.  It might take a little longer to stabilize but there's no guarantee that going to 50mg would have a faster/better effect so I wouldn't go there unless you feel like your improvement stops.

 

Alto's point is well-taken with regard to the B12 and D levels.  They can both (especially B12) have significant neurological impacts.  Starting, at very, very low levels, to introduce B-12 into your system would be a good idea.  It revs some people up so you need to be careful, but correcting those levels might bring additional relief. 

 

It comes in various strengths, but starting very low, with like 25mcg would probably a good place to start.

 

Good luck.

[roadback1]

Thank you, apace41 for the extra support! You are a great help.

I see that you are reducing sertraline as well and I hope it goes as smoothly as possible for you.

 

I may have to increase to 50 mgs. due to the symptoms, (and that was the last dose I was stable on,)but, I totally agree that staying on the lowest possible dose to alleviate symptoms is the wisest way to do it.

 

I definitely am going to start supplementing the B12 and Vit. D and will start very low and slow.

I had a horrible reaction to Deplin a few years ago and am beyond cautious now.

I am waiting on the results of a saliva test to get a larger picture of what my body needs to heal.

 

Best wishes to you!

Roadback

[Altostrata]

Thank you, apace.

 

Roadback, sounds like you should stay with 20mg propanolol.

 

I would try B12 and vit D supplementation, one at a time and at a very low dose to start. If they seem to help, stabilize for a while, then address the Zoloft issue.

 

Are there any integrative or holistic psychiatrists in Buffalo? If you can find one who seems knowledgeable, you might discuss The Prozac switch or "bridging" with Prozac

[roadback1]

Alto,

 

I am doing some research to see if there are any holistic psychiatrists in Buffalo.(I did find an NP .)

 

I have been on zoloft for 20+ years. I couldn't locate anyone on this forum who has done the Prozac switch successfully after being on these drugs so long.

 

It scares me to think of switching to Prozac to taper, even though zoloft is getting harder to taper now.

 

Thanks, Alto !

Roadback

[Altostrata]

You will want an MD or DO who has switched people to Prozac before. If the person wants to do a lot of tests or sells supplements, back away.

[roadback1]

Three weeks ago,I up dosed back to 50 mgs. of zoloft, which was the last dose I was stable on.

75 % of the shaking,muscle tension, panic, and neck stiffness have passed.I have good days and bad days,and some days feel like one step forward and two steps back.

 

I am taking 1800-2000 mgs of fish oil, and 400 mgs mag. glycinate 2x/day.The magnesium really seems to help relax me.

I got the saliva test results and they indicate the need for supplementation for the hormones.

My chiropractor has suggested a standard process trace minerals b12 supplement,which I haven't started,yet.

I'm a bit afraid to tip the apple cart at this point.

 

So, no more dose changes or tapering for me for a very long time.

I do have pre- existing panic disorder anyways, and am using deep breathing,Eft and other methods to deal with that as the zoloft covered up a lot of the panic thoughts and feelings.

[brassmonkey]

I would be very carful with the B12 supplement.  It has a bad habit of being very stimulating which can increase the anxiety and panic that you're feeling.  Many people in WD and recovery have had major setbacks by starting on any of the B vitamins.

[roadback1]

Brass monkey,

Thank you, I will be cautious with the b12. Ever since my overreaction to Deplin, I am very careful.

The only supplements I trust right now are fish oil and magnesium.

[Altostrata]

What saliva tests for what hormones? Use search in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum to see our discussions about these tests.

 

Magnesium is more effective taken in smaller doses throughout the day. Large doses are simply excreted.

[roadback1]

Alto,

The saliva test was a one time 4 samples test for cortisol,estrogen,testosterone progesterone etc. and I was told my adrenals are fatigued and other blood work suggests very low vit b12 and vit d levels, as well as needing thyroid support.

I know all of these numbers can be affected by withdrawal and antidepressant use, and that's why

I haven't taken any supplements, yet.Just sticking with fish oil and magnesium glycinate.

 

I tried taking magnesium at 200 mgs 3x / day but, I never noticed any benefit until I took 400 mgs at one time.Then I felt very relaxed.

Sometimes I only take it once a day,but, the most is twice.

[Altostrata]

Please read our topics on adrenals in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum.

 

(Those tests seem to inevitably indicate adrenal fatigue -- highly suspicious.)

 

Good to hear you've found a way to take magnesium that works well for you.

[roadback1]

This might be a silly question,but,I will ask it anyway:

Since my updose to 50 mgs zoloft 2 1/2 months ago,many of my withdrawal symptoms eased up. The left sided body tension/clenching eventually stopped and the shaking eased up.I was able to go to the store,take my child some places,go to my doctor and dentist appointments etc. I wasn't rooted to my rocking chair like I was when withdrawal hit.

 

Summer has been very hectic here,with the neighborhood kids over till late, eating and sleeping over, running in and out etc

Hubby has been taking him on day trips without me because my lifelong agoraphobia has ramped up.I cannot ride with anyone or go out to eat with my family. I get too panicky.

We have an uncle's birthday party coming up and I cannot go because of the noise and crowds,which hubby understands.I feel bad about not going. I cannot do what everyone else can so easily do.

 

Today, my anxiety and panic is thru the roof.I am experiencing fear, trembling, adrenalin rushes, and I am trying to do deep breathing,emotional freedom technique and bach remedies.It keeps coming back.

 

Could this be a bad wave,or something else?

Any help or suggestions would be so appreciated!

 

Thank you,

RB 1

[brassmonkey]

Hi RB1-- It is good to hear that your UD is kicking in and starting to help.  It also sounds like you have your hands full with "summer time fun".  Even though the UD is working there will still be a windows and waves pattern to what your are feeling, but they should even out as the UD settles in even more.  If you haven't read this thread it may shed some light on what you are feeling;

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[roadback1]

Thank you,Brass.

It's a relief in a way to know what is causing this.

 

I am still taking an omega 3 which has 750 mgs. Omega 3s, 410 mgs EPA and 210 mgs DHA per pill. I take 6 or 7 of those per day.

I also take 400 + mgs. Mag glycinate per day and get at least 1/2 hour of sunshine almost every day.

I am afraid to take any B vitamins after a very bad reaction.

Sometimes I take lactium, if I think of it. I don't know what else to take that is relaxing,(besides Epsom salts baths) to help me thru this wave?

 

RB

[Fresh]

Hi RB , have you tried melatonin?  Some members find it quite sedating.

 

xxx

[roadback1]

Hi Fresh,

No I haven't. I will read up on it here. Thank you.

 

Fresh, I have been following your SA adventures. You sound like things are going very well . I am so happy for you!

 

I have been looking into essential oils and trying to find an acupuncturist,also. I tried one, but, didn't care for her approach and it made me more anxious !

 

My biggest challenge has always been anxiety and agoraphobia, even though I was on meds for them. Zoloft tamped them down but , of course, they never went away. Just played peek a boo with me !

 

xxx

RB

[apace41]

Hi, RB.

 

As I said in response to your post on my thread, thanks so much for stopping by and providing your support.  Really appreciated!

 

My question for you was going to be that you said you are on the lowest dose of Zoloft ever and that your signature still shows 50mg from May so I was going to ask if you were still there or if you had dropped below that.  Having read (reread actually) your thread I see you are still there, doing better, but having some "breakthrough" anxiety, etc. 

 

With regard to things to try to relax, there are lots of choices all of which should be tried at very low levels to make sure no adverse reaction occurs.  You can try any of melatonin (as Fresh suggested), valerian, holy basil, ashwagandha, chamomile, and rhodiola (all of which can have calming effects).  How has your gut been through all of this -- any digestive issues?

 

Hope you are doing well today,

 

 

Andy

 

[roadback1]

Hi Andy,

 

I have never tried any of the herbs/supplements you mentioned. I will research these as well. Thank you for the suggestions!

 

I have been on zoloft for 20 years, but, mostly in the 100-150 mgs range. My psychiatrist said this 50 mg. dose is pretty much a maintenance dose. This is new ground for me.

My emotions have come back, for the most part.The ones I wish I didn't feel was the fear and anxiety. I would push the delete button on those, although in normal brain function, they would be working properly anyway.

 

No digestive issues, and I do take a probiotic for the brain - gut connection.

 

Thanks again for visiting, Andy !

RB

[roadback1]

Just a little update to my thread:

 

I was in the hospital for five days last week. I went to immediate care for an irregular heartbeat that I have had most of my life that didn't resolve on its own like it usually does.

 

My heart started racing,(and I've had palpitations many,many times,) but, they said I was in afib and gave me a shot of adenosine to slow it down. Then admitted me to cardiac care unit, with all the IVs, aspirin, meds,etc.

 

I had an echocardiogram and an angiogram.My heart is fine, no blockages, just an electrical problem.

The day I was to be released, I had two more afib episodes, and stayed two more days while they tweaked my medicine.I also was given few Xanax to sleep,which I never take since weaning off 5 years ago.

 

So I am home, and having a hard time adjusting to the new meds.They make me tired and I can feel them suppressing my heartbeat.

I am usually aware of the beats because of my anxiety disorder.

 

I have an appointment with an electrophysiologist in a few days to see if I am a candidate for an ablation, which I won't describe here in case anyone is squeamish ...????.But, it can be a very successful treatment for afib.

 

I am scared of another afib episode, although I do know what to do about it now. The Xanax messed me up for a few days, and this was my first hospital stay ,too.

 

I am hopeful though, that the electrophysiologist will be able to help me.????

 

Take care everyone,

RB

[Fresh]

Hiya RB ,  glad to hear you survived your first admission . . . it sounds like a horrible , scary week.

 

xx

[Altostrata]

roadback, I had an ablation for afib. It worked very well. Just make sure you go to a top electrophysiologist. This is a good peer forum http://www.afibbers.org/lafforum.htm