Roads: Introduction

[Roads]

Just to share some success stories I found out on the net.

 

http://recovery-road.org/success-stories-2/

 

(I know there is a topic for that, but I just wasn't able to find it. sorry...)

[Altostrata]

Thanks, Roads. The topic is here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/731-anyone-here-actually-recovered/page__p__6399__hl__recovered__fromsearch__1#entry6399

 

(By the way, if you're wondering where myx went, Roads was formerly myx0mat0sis.)

[Rhiannon]

You know, this year, I stayed home. I gave up everything. College, all... I was confused. A blurred state of anxiety, confusion, inactivity...All was so difficult, impossible, even physically. However, I was on drugs, I hadn't quit yet. So this is not attributable to withdrawal. I'm realizing I've got no excuse. It can't be the mere effect of the drug, can it? MAybe I am too weak, a nasty coward... unable to pluck up one's courage to have a normal life, lazily drifting apart... But I can't. Just can't. Why?

 

Actually the drugs can and do cause exactly the symptoms you describe, for many people.

 

If you have had a difficult, challenging time during your past years and your youth, it's normal that you need some time to work through healing from those difficult times so that you can get on with the rest of your life. The best way to do that work is to stay away from the psychiatric drugs. Those just prevent and postpone our ability to really heal naturally from trauma and stress. The best thing to do is find a good talk and body oriented therapist.

 

I speak from my personal experience. My childhood was extremely abusive and traumatic. It took me many years to recover. Unfortunately I did take the psychiatric drugs during this time and they made me much worse.

 

I'm glad you are already off the drugs. Try to avoid ever taking them again. They are not helpful in your healing process.

 

I agree that a reinstatement to 10 mg at this point might be worth a try, and then hold there for several months to stabilize, and then do a reasonable taper. But as everyone says, there is no certainty about these drugs and how they will respond.

[Nadia]

THANK YOU for the success stories!!

[Rhiannon]

Hi, Roads. I've read through your more recent thoughts now, as I have had some extra time today. How are you doing now?

 

You certainly have all my support. And admiration for your courage and strength. And your determination. You're going to make it.

[SaveMooses]

You keep hanging in there, Roads! THERE IS HOPE! I read all your thoughts and feelings and those were the exact same things I felt going through all my withdrawals. I'm still on a small dose of Lexapro but will wean again when I have all my ducks in a row. Eating the right amount of foods, exercising, sunshine, classical music, water..... Just hang in there!

[Roads]

I thank you for your encouragement

 

The thoughts you are refering to are old, and I don't stick to them anymore. My thoughts are of the little I have a grasp on, so I don't want to leave them to my suffering. There is some kind of dissociation in me: even if I am physically destroyed (transiently ), my mind refuses to surrender and collaborate. It is a question of survival I guess.

So don't worry, I hang in. I walk, unflinchingly, or rather I plod, but I am moving forwards, little by little, imperturbably, because if I don't, all would be meaningless. The only failure would be to stop going on... And even if it is absurd (though I believe in the contrary), I would have kept my dignity

 

I hang in and plod on

[Altostrata]

Roads, you are all of us. You are a bodhisattva.

[Roads]

Thanks, but I am rather a grieving and suffering soul in the throes of samsara

 

This is the fith night I have virtually no sleep (maybe one, or two hours), and it is getting worse. It is wracking and frightening a lot. I hace a constant feeling of intense excitement and heat, and of relentless awareness (plus the akathisia).

 

I know there is nothing to do (I curb stimuli, wear sunglasses, earwax...), and I confess I am getting scared...

 

Do/did someone have a similar experience?

[Altostrata]

Many of us have had those symptoms, Roads. The sleep problems are very common in withdrawal syndrome.

[Roads]

I know. Severe insomnia is new to me and I got afraid. Thanks for the answer

[Roads]

Hi guys... Things are getting very bad...

 

It is now three monthes and a week (roughly) that I cold turkeyed from seropram 20 mg. It is one monthes and two weeks since the withdrawal got severe and debilitating, but still bearable. But it has become hell for the last week. My head is crushed and burning so much I cannot sleep at all. I litteraly haven't slept for the three last nights, and the precedent night were virtually void of sleep too. Day after day, my state is worsening. I am nothing but pain. Things are getting extreme...

I am thinking of going back on seropram, half the original dosage, so 10 mg. I got them... I feel cornered and somewhat screwed up. I thought I was on the way out, and now I have to step back in the ugly cobweb. But if I go on, I think I am gonna die of exhaustion. It feels like my brain is racing to final depletion

I read stories where the victims stood extreme suffering, and my greatest fear is to screw the way out by weakness.

 

I had two experiences of extreme akathisia under effexor, and I am terrified by the perspective of getting mad by taking back the drug (though I did'nt have severe akathisia under seropram).

 

Almost one week of no sleep (really no sleep).

State horrendously worsening

three montes since c/t (one monthe and two weeks since the withdrawal really began)

Living hell

(Plus, I fear that my state gets me hospitalized, and that I am forced in other strong addictive meds...)

 

What do you think? Is reinstatment the best thing to do? should I try to push more in c/t?

 

My situation is getting critical...

 

I am so sorry for the hopelesness of my message...

[Roads]

I eventually took 10mg of citalopram one hour ago. I think that was the best thing to do (contrary to waiting for so long to reinstate... ) It was hardly tolerable, without talking of the fact it was getting worse and worse. Besides, my mother is very fragile these times (she faces many difficulties and is scarred by some nasty ordeals), and doesn't bear my misery, which compounds my condition, compounding her anixety/mood, yielding crisis..., vicious circle). It could'nt go on. I am praying for my reinstatement to be successful.

 

My doctor prescribed me donormyl for the insomnia (total I repeat), and I think I will give it a try several days (but no more).

[brighteningup]

I'm so sorry to hear you are suffering. If there is a way you can ease your suffering then I think that is a good thing.

 

If going back up to 10mg and then tapering off very slowly reduces your withdrawal effects, I think maybe that could help you.

 

Other people here who are much more experienced will have more detailed advice I'm sure.

 

All I can tell you is about my own experience. I have just finished tapering down fairly slowly from citalopram (possibly slightly too quickly) but I only took it for 6 months before I began to taper and have not taken any psychiatric drugs previously (I had been, and still am, using topcial corticosteroids which may have caused me some problems - including insomnia - but I expect I'm rather unique in this).

 

I have experienced some side effects at each jump down in the tapering process but they haven't been seriously debilitating and now (3 days off completely) I'm feeling pretty good - I think I'm still be getting some mild side effects but not too serious - we'll see how things go.

 

I had difficult side effects ON citalopram at the 20mg level so was keen to cut down as soon as I could - these were mainly insomnia very light sleeping), sweating, tiredness (probably from poor sleep) emotional cushioning (no high or low emotions) and confusion - the confusion was the worst bit it felt like it wasn't my brain anymore.

 

These sides effects had pretty much gone (especially the confusion), at the 10mg level and although I was still sleeping lightly - I was sleeping a lot better on 10mg - I had very weird dreams but slept for at least 4-5 hours without waking every night and after waking would usually sleep for another 1-2 hours before alarm went off. So maybe - reinstating to 10mg might help you - but I don't know.

 

My sleep is improving slowly but still not fully sorted out (but I haven't had the acute insomnia you've described at any point - and I also had sleep problems before I went on the drugs possibly from the corticosteroids - so there may be other factors involved here for me).

 

So for me, tapering slowly down seems to have kept side effects manageable, and had I tapered even slower maybe I might have had fewer side effects.

 

I fully intend if I start to get difficult side effects at some point soon to reinstate proabably ~2.5-5mg and taper down very slowly from there- I hope not to have to do this though.

 

I can't tell you whether a re-instatement to 10mg will help you though, or what you would do if you tried this and it did not help - perhaps others can advise...

 

Whatever you decide I wish you many joyful moments, and hope your suffering eases soon.

[Altostrata]

Roads, my heart goes out to you.

 

Look at it this way, reinstating at a lower dose may help. If it doesn't, you can stop and you are back to dealing with symptoms. I agree, they are h*llish.

 

Of course, if you get akathisia, you will want to reduce the dose immediately. Perhaps 5mg will work.

 

Do not think you are weak. Sometimes our pride gets in the way of taking care of ourselves. Looking out for your own good is more important.

[Roads]

Guess what... I am doubting... I want to give it a sensible try. Maybe try one week? If no result, or at the first sign of a bad reaction, definitive cessation.

On average, which time does it take to reinstate?

 

Is it possible to survive with absolute no sleep? This is the total insomnia and the lack of support from my family which are the worst.

 

Sorry for being so "asky"

[Altostrata]

A week is a good try.

 

Yes, you can survive without sleep. It feels horrible, but it can be done.

 

Please try to stay calm.

[Roads]

I am less exhasted and I think I slept a bit tonight. But I feel agitated and trembles, and very rarely, convulses.

 

I don't know what to do. I think I will be unable to take the meds again. I just can't. Hope it hasn't worsen my condition... Feels trapped and doomed. Even my positivism was torn to shreds. Do you think I can make it through the hell of c/t?

[ajay]

Roads, I think you can make it.

But it will be hell for awhile. I think you have some advantages - you are young, and I wonder if that will help you recover faster. You also have some disadvantages (it sounds like your mom can't really give you emotional support) so you need to be patient and good to yourself.

 

The lack of sleep makes everything worse. There are some topics in the discussions about sleep - if any of the suggestions can bring you a bit of rest, it's worth a try. I also suggest anything you can do that will get you out of your own head for a bit. Get together with friends, read books that are interesting but not intense...

 

Hang in there. Some days will be easier, and some will be very difficult. I do believe you can get through this.

[Roads]

I thank you for your advice and warm words, they are of great comfort

 

I have a kind of "enthusiasm impulse", for the bad reaction I got from the Citalopram is abating and all the more for I have just realized that, even if my suffering lately worsened, I am capable of affection again. It is so great to be capbale of emotions, to feel affection, and to be human. I don't know if I will win the struggle, but at least I have regain my human dignity.

 

I also want to thank you Alto for your answers, and on the whole for your commitment to this site. It is admiration and gratitude-compelling. Thank you so much!

[Rhiannon]

Hi Roads-- Just want to drop in and tell you, I am thinking of you, and I know one way or another you WILL get through this and get back to having a good life that you will be very happy with.

 

As you know, I have thought all along a small reinstatement would be best for you. Of course you have my support in whatever you do.

 

So I am not trying to contradict you, but I will continue to be honest and tell you what I think is best.

 

I think that if you are not having a terrible bad reaction to the 10 mg citalopram, then you should stay on it for a while. I think a week is not long enough. I think a month is long enough to tell you if it is going to be better to stay on the 10 mg or not.

 

During this time take your dose the same time every day. Try to keep a regular schedule every day with all your activities.

 

If during this month you are not having a bad reaction to the citalopram, then I think you need to stay on it long enough for your brain and nervous system to stabilize. Ideally that would be six months, but I understand that you are feeling very impatient to get off of all these medications. So if you cannot make yourself hold for six months, then at least hold the 10 mg for three months.

 

During that time you can gather information and resources to plan for a successful taper. Plan a very long taper. Given your chaotic history you will do much better with a long taper, at least a year or so.

 

This is all I will say now. Please believe me that these are not just ideas that come from nowhere. There are good reasons and explanations for everything I am saying. They are just very long explanations which I have already written elsewhere.

 

This advice is based on your particular history, with the age you were when you took the meds, all of the different meds you have taken, the various changes of meds and the timing of those changes, and the history of CT. I am including all of these factors in my advice to you. So this is not merely casual advice that I am throwing out randomly.

 

Whatever you choose to do, though, you will be supported and cared about here on this forum.

[Roads]

I have the greatest consideration for your advice and the greatest thankfulness for the time you spend on helping me I know that your advice is underlied by much experience and knowledge, that you may be right and that I may stray.

 

I don't tolerate the meds well. After several monthes without meds, when I took them again, I developped lots of adverse effects which worsened with time. At only 33mg of effexor, I had two experiences of extreme akathisia that traumatized me beyond words. I had also lots of other debilitating side effects. I was disabled even on meds and I hadn't the will nor the strentgh to do a taper. Now there is an other span without meds, I think it is quite likely that I have became even more intolerant.

 

The 10 mg of Citalopram I have recently taken caused me to shake like a jelly and even convulse, inner pain, and painful excitation. I think it is most likely that there is no milder way for me...

 

I plainly understand your viewpoint and I am perfectly aware of the fact that you may be right. But I can't go back on meds. It is physical and psychological intolerance.

 

I hope the dose I have taken hasn't nullify the work made by my body during ...

 

Again, thank you for your advice

[summer]

"If during this month you are not having a bad reaction to the citalopram, then I think you need to stay on it long enough for your brain and nervous system to stabilize. Ideally that would be six months, but I understand that you are feeling very impatient to get off of all these medications. So if you cannot make yourself hold for six months, then at least hold the 10 mg for three months.

 

During that time you can gather information and resources to plan for a successful taper. Plan a very long taper. Given your chaotic history you will do much better with a long taper, at least a year or so."

 

 

 

Roads... this is such excellent advice that Rhi has given to you. I too think it is key to your recovery to stay on long enough to give yourself a chance to stabilize. I think it is good advice for anyone tapering any AD.

 

Sending good vibes for a complete recovery.

[Altostrata]

Roads, you've had a bad reaction, clearly 10mg is too much. Try 1mg.

[summer]

Roads, you've had a bad reaction, clearly 10mg is too much. Try 1mg.

 

And that is why I should have read the entire thread!

 

I wonder tho... will 1mg bring any relief?

[Rhiannon]

Roads, you've had a bad reaction, clearly 10mg is too much. Try 1mg.

 

Sounds like it...I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time, Roads.

 

Maybe try a smaller dose like Alto suggests.

 

I won't keep trying to lay advice on you but I do feel it's important to let you know that going on and off these meds, stopping and starting, seems to lead to even worse instability and worse symptoms. Just something to be aware of, you may already know it.

[Roads]

Sorry guys, I feel so low, and I come here, feel like I am shamelessly exploiting you... I am sorry

 

I experience depression as a new symptom I think. That's so weird, this is the first psychological symptom I get, this is very confusing. But it must be neuro-emotion. So hard to believe it is caused by the withdrawal. The fickleness of the symptoms is astonishing (they dramatically change even in the same day). Anyway.

 

The real reason of me writing is this: I see virtually no cold-turkeyers. I can't get back cause I can't reinstate (intolerance) and do it properly. It is so terrying. I feel stucked and doomed. So lonely on a path other carefully avoid. So lonely. I hope this is neuro-emotion and not depression. It is very hard to believe it. But I have no choice. Nevertheless I am almost happy to be depressed, I feel emotions again.

 

My question is this: Do you think it is doable on this path? Is it normal that my withdrawal lately worsened? This is strange. Two weeks ago, I was kinda so wise and positive, and now I am so fragile. I was a very sensitive person. I think. I don't remember well how I was. I don't know who I am. Wow, it seems I am just venting. Sorry. I have never done it before. Strange. Sorry.

 

Blessing to all, you are so lovely, and what is happening to you is so sad. All of you deserve well-being and happiness. All of us. We were made to be happy. I hope so much all of us will be happy again. As long as we live, it is still possible. It is still possible.

[Altostrata]

Roads, it is doable, you are lovely too and part of this community.

 

We do have cold-turkeyers, maybe not very active right now. (Nadia quit cold-turkey.)

 

Those of us who didn't cold turkey but tapered too fast are not too different from those who cold-turkeyed. We are all in the same boat.

 

Please do not blame yourself for the path you've taken. Clearly you can't reinstate, you can't rewind the tape and do it all over again.

 

You are entirely welcome here and not a burden.

 

Yes, the fluctuation in symptoms is normal and the worsening within months of quitting is common.

 

When you have those waves of depression -- I call them melancholia to distinguish them from the psychiatric diagnosis -- remind yourself, "This too shall pass."

[Roads]

This is brillant. This is exactly what I needed to hear. I thank you so much. I owe you and this site so much. I am so lucky.

 

I know I am not a burden. This is just I have the impression I take more than I give, and this is unfair. I hope I will be able to give more in the future, because there are so many people in need here. My suffering makes me so self-centered. This is the way it is, and I am not flogging me, I know I really want to help, but I can so little. It saddens me. But things are not over, I can get better and help more This is how it will turn!

 

Thanks so much.

[Roads]

It's two weeks since I virtually don't sleep, and I am afraid of being stuck in a vicious circle. In theory, the less you sleep, the more you got excited, therefore the less you sleep. The worst thing is I am so messed up that I don't manage to do anything to improve things. I don't manage to implement tips, to fetch supplements. It is awful.

Is there a hope of healing on its own, despite this goddamn insomnia? Besides, I feel so guilt not to be able to do ANYTHING, even to help me...

 

I am so scared to get mad or die because of this insomnia. I guess I am a bit hypchondriac... Dismal, isn'it?

 

Without sleep and tips implementation (apart from regular schedule, nutrition, exercice), is there any hope of healing?

 

I am becoming suicidal, and I don't want to. The withdrawal reduced me to a whiny terrified larva. I can't even suffer in a dignified way. At least I can still rise up.

 

Maybe this is good. It learns you humility, and I needed to...

 

I am sorry for this negative post. There is a lot of astnishing brave people here. I wish I were up to the scratch I hope you are doing better than me. I try to think of you, because I don't want my suffering to make me selfish. It is a bit clumsy, but ... I am thinking of you.

[brighteningup]

Roads,

 

You may not feel it right now but you are incredibly brave too.

 

Suffering with dignity isn't always possible. Sometimes suffering is mean and nasty and frustrating. For me it can make me sad, it can make me angry, it can make me feel weak, and maybe sometimes I have sounded dignified to others but I certainly haven't felt it.

 

At these times it is, I have found, incredibly important to be very kind and caring towards yourself, and slowly you will heal. I found when my body and mind were suffering I often got angry and frustrated with it, and then angry with myself for being angry - this did not help. Instead accepting that the situation is frustrating and it's understandable I'm upset has helped, as has then being very kind to myself.

 

So for now, just try to do some small things that care for yourself, that make you feel loved. These could be very very simple, have a bath, make yourself a hot drink, read a book you always find comforting, whatever warms you a little.

 

I have been at moments when it has been very dark and there has seemed to be no hope ahead, but it has come back, and the world has filled with light and hope and beauty again.

 

I believe strongly that things will be ok for you, even if it feels dark just now.

 

Take much care of yourself.

 

I'll be thinking of you.

 

Bright

[Altostrata]

Roads, many of us have experienced the awful sleeplessness. Each has found it very, very difficult. It does get better.

 

Please do not think of yourself as lacking courage.

 

If you are hypersensitive, there's really not much else you can do but to try to keep to a regular schedule that will reset your natural sleep-wake cycle. Get sun in the morning, turn off lights at nightfall.

 

Have you tried melatonin? Here's info: Melatonin for sleep

[Roads]

I thank you alto and brighteningup (what a lovely pseudo!) Your messages and caring makes so much good, and surely so much difference.

 

Alto: I have managed to get a hand on melatonin, and I bought epsom salt too... I hope it will work. I think with time, my anxiety about the lack of sleep will wear off. The calm and rational tune of your messages are so reassuring. It helps me a lot to face things. Thanks a lot

 

Brighteningup: your words are incredibly heart and soul-touching (sorry for the neologism), they are true medicine to me, I thank you so much.

[Altostrata]

Roads, I like to hear your voice, too.

 

Be sure to start with a very small amount of melatonin, .5mg at nightfall to begin. It may be enough for you.

[Soul]

Hi Roads,

 

I was wondering how are you doing? Are you sleeping a bit better?

 

I am there with you....

[Roads]

Thanks for taking interest in me

 

Actually I am doing pretty bad since I tried acupuncture yesterday. I asked for a soothing action on my nervous system, after having accounted for my case, and I ended up with an intense feeling of depression, moral pain/anxiety, increased insomnia, suicidal thoughts along with the other symptoms. It is verry strange. It resembles how I felt when I had abruptly swithed AD and suffered from effexor withdrawal for a week. I know she worked on the serotonin and the adrenalin. I don't think that increasing serotonin was a good thing, but I am so numb that I am too much compliant.

 

I hope that it didn't messed my system nor my recovery too much... I feel very low and discouraged by this twist of fate.