Moderator Emeritus scallywag Posted March 28, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 28, 2017 Okay, thanks for the reminder. Would you add the fact that you're decreasing lithium due to kidney issues to your signature? That will help us (me?) remember your situation without reading your entire (only 2 pages right now) introduction. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to 0.0 mg Aug. 12; details here scallywag's IntroductionOnline spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet Link to comment
Tchi Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 Hi I've been lithium free since April , no mania , did it in 18 months ; sped up the taper ( 240mg in January to zero in six rapid shots ) because of kidney failure. I'm still on 20mg Paxil ( from 30mg ) , not a good time to stop as I do have depression -which might be amplified (or even triggered ) by an ongoing family situation since February - bad timing. I was doing well. Lost 20 pounds , happy about that , happy mostly for my kidneys and to be out of Lithium after 30 years. Two weeks ago , I started taking Abilify 5mg as a temporary measure for depression ( down + suicidal thoughts ) ; am experiencing side-effects : fatigue , insomnia and restlessness . I hate it , feel like a zombie ; also read it's an antipsychotic , which I don't understand . Going to stop it tonight . However , I realize I momentarily need a bit of help . Doctor had suggested Seroquel , but I'm reluctant as there's weight gain. Doctor says Wellbutrin not strong enough . Any ideas ? My body might be adjusting , but there IS a situation . Recurrent depression -900mg Lithane since 1991 - tried to stop in 1995, went down to 600mg . 20mg Paxil since 1998 - tried to taper in 2011 - doctor increased dosage to 30mg .LITHIUM : September 1st 2015 : down to 450mg lithium ( 300 in the morning , 150 at night )- 30% decrease 2015/09/15 : 75mg increase , for a total of 525 mg - 12.5% decrease 2015/11/24 : lithium down to 475 mg - minus 9% 2016/01/08 : 450mg 2016/02/05 : 420mg - Kidney failure 2016/03/09 : 375mg Total taper : 38% in 5 months 2017/01/01 : 300mg per day for the past six months 50% in 15 months - Below therapeutic level. 2017/03/27 : down to 120mg . April 30th 2017 : ZERO PAXIL : 2015/10/14 : 10% taper 30mg Paxil = 26.5 ml 2015/11 : 24.3mg 2015/12/16 : 21.6mg 2016/01/23 : 20mg Total taper : 30% in 4 months - 2016/11/01 : Still at 20 mg after failing at 15 mg Link to comment
Dancingspirit90 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I was misdiagnosed with bipolar. The original psychiatrist contacted me years after she retired to retract her diagnosis and she is a well respected, prestigious doctor on our area. It happens. Completely off of all my drugs. Tapered off of 80mg Latuda and 900mg of Trileptal from February to June this year. Experiencing withdrawal sometimes still. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus mammaP Posted August 4, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted August 4, 2017 Hi Tchi, seroquel is also an antipsychotic. I would just hang in there because your body needs to adjust after the rapid lithium taper. You are suffering side effects from abilify which will also be making you feel depressed. When you have stopped it you will need to just hold and let your body readjust after the lithium and abilify. This will take time but really is the best thing. Your nervous system is struggling because of the rapid lithium taper after 30 years ( no criticism, you had to do it ), and is now reacting to abilify. Adding another drug will cause further chaos. When I started my tapering journey to get off meds my aim was to get off what I was taking and then start again because I had bi polar and would need something else that wouldn't make me sick. I learned such a lot here and had no idea that my brain would ever function without them yet here I am, 5 years and some very scary times later doing just fine without them. When you have taken drugs for so long because you really, really need them you believe the hype that the drug companies made up about the chemical imbalance but it is just not true. You don't need anything for the depression, your body needs to stabilise and then you could start to taper off the paxil. As the dose lowers you will feel your brain changing as long as it is very slow. Your brain has to learn to function withoput the drugs, and it can do that beautifully as long as it is allowed to. Decades of drugs mean that our brains have a lot to undo. Mine is going slowly because I am still tapering my last drug, but we will get there and I am so much better than on the cocktai. . Hang in there, when the abilify has gone you will be able to carry on with the healing that has been taking place and discover how good it is to have most of your brain function back and feel healthier. You will finally get all your brain back as you taper paxil and that will be amazing. **I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge. Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem) 1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat 2002 effexor. Tapered March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads. Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013 Restarted taper Nov 2013 OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015 Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014 Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg July 2017 30mg. May 15 2018 25mg Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33 Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible Link to comment
Tchi Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Hello to all I've been suffering severe agoraphobia , panic access and general anxiety in the past 17 days. Been 100% off lithium since April 30th. Do any of you know about this , as possible symptoms of tapering ? If yes , what do you do ? Will see a cognitive therapist about this . Had to increase Paxil from 20mg to 30mg. Have been using half a 250 mcg Xanax occasionally when too distressed , aware it's a last resort. I want my freedom back and wish you all the same Thanks Recurrent depression -900mg Lithane since 1991 - tried to stop in 1995, went down to 600mg . 20mg Paxil since 1998 - tried to taper in 2011 - doctor increased dosage to 30mg .LITHIUM : September 1st 2015 : down to 450mg lithium ( 300 in the morning , 150 at night )- 30% decrease 2015/09/15 : 75mg increase , for a total of 525 mg - 12.5% decrease 2015/11/24 : lithium down to 475 mg - minus 9% 2016/01/08 : 450mg 2016/02/05 : 420mg - Kidney failure 2016/03/09 : 375mg Total taper : 38% in 5 months 2017/01/01 : 300mg per day for the past six months 50% in 15 months - Below therapeutic level. 2017/03/27 : down to 120mg . April 30th 2017 : ZERO PAXIL : 2015/10/14 : 10% taper 30mg Paxil = 26.5 ml 2015/11 : 24.3mg 2015/12/16 : 21.6mg 2016/01/23 : 20mg Total taper : 30% in 4 months - 2016/11/01 : Still at 20 mg after failing at 15 mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus baroquep Posted October 10, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 10, 2017 Hi Tchi, I've merged your new topic with your original introduction thread and would ask that you post all of your questions here rather than start a new topic. It is best to keep all of your information in one place so that all of the moderators and other members are able to see your information at a glance and respond to your questions. How did you taper off of lithium? Are you working with your doctor to taper off of lithium? Why did you increase the Paxil? Did you feel better or worse after increasing Paxil? I'm not sure if you are aware, but Surviving Antidepressants recommends tapering at a rate of 10% or less of your current dose with a hold of at least four weeks before another decrease. Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism: Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg (15 years Pristiq/Effexor)Tapering Schedule September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg; November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75 January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67 January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0 February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 May 20, 2017 - reduced to 40.25 (holding for additional month due to late onset of withdrawal symptoms after this taper) July 17, 2017 - reduced to 38.24 August 15, 2017 - reduced to 37.5 (50% of my original dose) October 15, 2017 - reduced to 35.6 November 12, 2017 - reduced to 33.8 December 15, 2017 - up-dose to 35.6 December 28, 2017 - up-dose to 37.5 Link to comment
Tchi Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Hi baroquep Thank you for your answer. How I tapered lithium is described in my posts and signature . It took about 18 months. Did it slowly in the beginning ( 10% method ) but had to accelerate last spring because of kidney failure. Increased Paxil three days ago because of sudden severe agoraphobia , panic access and general anxiety in the past 17 days. A tiny bit better. How long can it take for the nervous system to stabilize from lithium withdrawal ? I've heard a year or more. I'm waiting to calm down before attempting Paxil tapering . This is the advice of my doctor , who encouraged me to get off lithium My priority now is to counter the agoraphobia. It's debilitating. I try to go out for a short walk each day , a short drive ( just a few blocks ). Needing reassurance that all is going to unfold well . Recurrent depression -900mg Lithane since 1991 - tried to stop in 1995, went down to 600mg . 20mg Paxil since 1998 - tried to taper in 2011 - doctor increased dosage to 30mg .LITHIUM : September 1st 2015 : down to 450mg lithium ( 300 in the morning , 150 at night )- 30% decrease 2015/09/15 : 75mg increase , for a total of 525 mg - 12.5% decrease 2015/11/24 : lithium down to 475 mg - minus 9% 2016/01/08 : 450mg 2016/02/05 : 420mg - Kidney failure 2016/03/09 : 375mg Total taper : 38% in 5 months 2017/01/01 : 300mg per day for the past six months 50% in 15 months - Below therapeutic level. 2017/03/27 : down to 120mg . April 30th 2017 : ZERO PAXIL : 2015/10/14 : 10% taper 30mg Paxil = 26.5 ml 2015/11 : 24.3mg 2015/12/16 : 21.6mg 2016/01/23 : 20mg Total taper : 30% in 4 months - 2016/11/01 : Still at 20 mg after failing at 15 mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus baroquep Posted October 10, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) It can take a while to stabilize. It hasn't been too long since you discontinued Lithium so it will likely take some time for your CNS to settle. It would be a very good idea if you didn't attempt to reduce the Paxil until you are feeling stabilized from the Lithium taper. It is highly recommended that you try and use non-drug techniques for coping with various withdrawal symptoms rather than increase your dose of Paxil which will oftentimes just make withdrawal more difficult. I'm attaching a link on agoraphobia that might be helpful to you and would suggest you try and incorporate non-drug techniques into your daily life to help you cope with the residual symptoms after tapering Lithium.AgoraphobiaNon-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms There are numerous links in the Symptoms and Self Care form that you might also find helpful and you can access the links here Symptoms & Self Care. Edited October 10, 2017 by baroquep Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism: Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg (15 years Pristiq/Effexor)Tapering Schedule September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg; November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75 January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67 January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0 February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 May 20, 2017 - reduced to 40.25 (holding for additional month due to late onset of withdrawal symptoms after this taper) July 17, 2017 - reduced to 38.24 August 15, 2017 - reduced to 37.5 (50% of my original dose) October 15, 2017 - reduced to 35.6 November 12, 2017 - reduced to 33.8 December 15, 2017 - up-dose to 35.6 December 28, 2017 - up-dose to 37.5 Link to comment
Tchi Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Sorry , I don't understand : '' It would be a very good idea if you didn't attempt to reduce the Paxil until you are feeling stabilized from the Lithium taper'' then : ''It is highly recommended that you try and use non-drug techniques for coping with various withdrawal symptoms rather than increase your dose of Paxil which will oftentimes just make withdrawal more difficult.'' Please clarify Recurrent depression -900mg Lithane since 1991 - tried to stop in 1995, went down to 600mg . 20mg Paxil since 1998 - tried to taper in 2011 - doctor increased dosage to 30mg .LITHIUM : September 1st 2015 : down to 450mg lithium ( 300 in the morning , 150 at night )- 30% decrease 2015/09/15 : 75mg increase , for a total of 525 mg - 12.5% decrease 2015/11/24 : lithium down to 475 mg - minus 9% 2016/01/08 : 450mg 2016/02/05 : 420mg - Kidney failure 2016/03/09 : 375mg Total taper : 38% in 5 months 2017/01/01 : 300mg per day for the past six months 50% in 15 months - Below therapeutic level. 2017/03/27 : down to 120mg . April 30th 2017 : ZERO PAXIL : 2015/10/14 : 10% taper 30mg Paxil = 26.5 ml 2015/11 : 24.3mg 2015/12/16 : 21.6mg 2016/01/23 : 20mg Total taper : 30% in 4 months - 2016/11/01 : Still at 20 mg after failing at 15 mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus baroquep Posted October 10, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 10, 2017 I was suggesting that you keep your dose of Paxil stable rather than increase your dose when withdrawal symptoms are difficult to manage and instead use non-drug techniques to cope with the symptoms. Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism: Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg (15 years Pristiq/Effexor)Tapering Schedule September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg; November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75 January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67 January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0 February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 May 20, 2017 - reduced to 40.25 (holding for additional month due to late onset of withdrawal symptoms after this taper) July 17, 2017 - reduced to 38.24 August 15, 2017 - reduced to 37.5 (50% of my original dose) October 15, 2017 - reduced to 35.6 November 12, 2017 - reduced to 33.8 December 15, 2017 - up-dose to 35.6 December 28, 2017 - up-dose to 37.5 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus baroquep Posted October 10, 2017 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 10, 2017 49 minutes ago, Tchi said: I'm waiting to calm down before attempting Paxil tapering 11 minutes ago, Tchi said: '' It would be a very good idea if you didn't attempt to reduce the Paxil until you are feeling stabilized from the Lithium taper'' I was agreeing with you that it was a very good idea to wait until you are stable before reducing the Paxil. Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism: Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg (15 years Pristiq/Effexor)Tapering Schedule September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg; November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75 January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67 January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0 February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 May 20, 2017 - reduced to 40.25 (holding for additional month due to late onset of withdrawal symptoms after this taper) July 17, 2017 - reduced to 38.24 August 15, 2017 - reduced to 37.5 (50% of my original dose) October 15, 2017 - reduced to 35.6 November 12, 2017 - reduced to 33.8 December 15, 2017 - up-dose to 35.6 December 28, 2017 - up-dose to 37.5 Link to comment
Tchi Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Thank you . I've decided to increase Paxil from 20mg to 30mg because the symptoms from lithium widrawal are unbearable at the moment. Tapering both drugs at the same time was maybe not a good idea. I am using natural techniques as well. Recurrent depression -900mg Lithane since 1991 - tried to stop in 1995, went down to 600mg . 20mg Paxil since 1998 - tried to taper in 2011 - doctor increased dosage to 30mg .LITHIUM : September 1st 2015 : down to 450mg lithium ( 300 in the morning , 150 at night )- 30% decrease 2015/09/15 : 75mg increase , for a total of 525 mg - 12.5% decrease 2015/11/24 : lithium down to 475 mg - minus 9% 2016/01/08 : 450mg 2016/02/05 : 420mg - Kidney failure 2016/03/09 : 375mg Total taper : 38% in 5 months 2017/01/01 : 300mg per day for the past six months 50% in 15 months - Below therapeutic level. 2017/03/27 : down to 120mg . April 30th 2017 : ZERO PAXIL : 2015/10/14 : 10% taper 30mg Paxil = 26.5 ml 2015/11 : 24.3mg 2015/12/16 : 21.6mg 2016/01/23 : 20mg Total taper : 30% in 4 months - 2016/11/01 : Still at 20 mg after failing at 15 mg Link to comment
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