lavendertealatte: Hello and hello

[lavendertealatte]

A few months?  Yikes.  I hope I haven't been off medication for too long for reinstatement to work?  Pharmacy has to order the liquid version so I'll get it on Tuesday.

 

For dizziness, found this with possible explanation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20144124

 

I just restarted my multivitamin a few days ago too.. could that be making things worse?  I think that was when the dizziness really was getting to me.  I just read somewhere that some people are sensitive to B vitamins?

 

 

[ChessieCat]

It is better to introduce things one at a time so that if you have a reaction you know what is causing it. hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex

 

[Gridley]

You have only been off the medication since Jan. 31, just a month and a half, so you are well within the window (1-3 months) when reinstatement is more likely to work.

 

Multivitamins are not recommended because if something goes wrong, you don't know what ingredient caused it.  B vitamins are not recommended because they can be activating.

[Altostrata]

6 hours ago, lavendertealatte said:

A few months?  Yikes.  I hope I haven't been off medication for too long for reinstatement to work?  Pharmacy has to order the liquid version so I'll get it on Tuesday.

 

For dizziness, found this with possible explanation

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20144124

 

I just restarted my multivitamin a few days ago too.. could that be making things worse?  I think that was when the dizziness really was getting to me.  I just read somewhere that some people are sensitive to B vitamins?

 

 

 

Good catch! If you would, please add the paper to From journals and scientific sources

[lavendertealatte]

Day 1 of reinstating.  Took 1/8 tsp of liquid escitalopram, which is about .6 mL.  Not sure if I should be more precise or not.  

[ChessieCat]

As long as you do it the same way using the same tools every time it should be fairly accurate.  However, it would be better to investigate ways of getting a more accurate dose.  Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

[lavendertealatte]

Already feeling improvements after reinstating but could be placebo this early on. 

 

Ok ordered syringe. Thankfully I needed to buy one anyway to have on hand for a pet. 

 

Seems like the 10% taper down from .6mg will take more than a year. Do I need to do 10% at this dosage?

[ChessieCat]

16 minutes ago, lavendertealatte said:

Already feeling improvements after reinstating but could be placebo this early on. 

 

I don't think so.  I reduced my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg for 3 weeks and ended up not being able to type.  I updosed and after about 4 hours I could type again.

 

17 minutes ago, lavendertealatte said:

Seems like the 10% taper down from .6mg will take more than a year. Do I need to do 10% at this dosage?

 

Yes, it is better to do no more than 10% reduction with about 4 week long holds.  Some people find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go.  It would probably be wise to do a nice long hold of 3-4 months on 0.6mg, and possibly longer depending how your symptoms are, and give your brain a chance to catch up with its adaptations.  Remember it's better to be patient and get off the drug with as little discomfort as possible than to go too fast or jump too soon.  It's also only a very small dose, but what your brain needs.

[lavendertealatte]

I am feeling weird freezing chills tonight. What’s going on? Is this a medication thing or something else? Very unusual feeling. My moods have been a bit better but today I was feeling a little more of ocd. 

[Rosetta]

Hi Lavender,

 

You may feel a lot of very strange things, but don't let them scare you.  I had the freezing chills and hot flashes.  

 

The ADs affect the neurotransmitters and each neurotransmitter affects every other neurotransmitter.  When one is out of whack the others are, too.  They will settle down.  It all becomes a huge mess after the AD is stopped sbruptly.  Your systems will go back to normal, but for now you may get all kinds of strange sensations and odd feelings.  None of them are permanent.  Don't let it scare you.  Everything with temperature regulation is back to normal for me and has been for months. Your reinstatement will probably make this ordeal easier for you and you'll get temp reg back faster than I did. Peace, Rosetta

 

 

[lavendertealatte]

I thought maybe I was coming down with the flu, but I just checked and my body temperature is normal???  Is that how it works, is it really the medication?

also I just reinstated so I thought I should be getting better

[ChessieCat]

Have you seen this list?  I think many people may experience some of these are not make the connection.  When I reduced my dose too quickly I ended up with what I thought was a stomach bug but think now it was withdrawal.

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

[Rosetta]

1 hour ago, lavendertealatte said:

I thought maybe I was coming down with the flu, but I just checked and my body temperature is normal???  Is that how it works, is it really the medication?

also I just reinstated so I thought I should be getting better

 

It's truly bizarre the signals my brain sends out.  I'm not surprised your temp was normal.  I had an MRI because of neurological symptoms.  It came back normal.  I've had many strange muscular issues, low blood pressure (my vision used to black out when I stood up), low blood sugar,  lack of appetite, extreme hunger, and the list goes on.  It's not the medicine per se.  It's the imbalance -- the lack of the medicine your brain relies on to keep the neurotransmitters in balance.  The reinstatement will help put everything back in balance, but there will probably be some adjustments and strange occurrences in the meantime.  No need to worry as they will subside.  -- Rosetta

[lavendertealatte]

Does my reinstatement dose need to be changed? I feel awful with the chills and my husband says I’ve been looking pale. 

[lavendertealatte]

also what's the word on kombucha and kefir and the like during all this?  Bad or good time to add it?

[ChessieCat]

To search the site I use a search engine and include survivingantidepressants.org in my search string.

[ChessieCat]

You are in the process of trying to stabilise after reinstating.  If you start anything new at this time you will not be able to tell what is causing what.

[ChessieCat]

I'll ask the other mods for their thoughts.

[lavendertealatte]

Ate dinner and feeling improved though still don’t feel so strong. Hope tomorrow shows more stabilizing. 

 

I’ve been drinking kefir for the past couple days lol it was on sale at the store so I wonder if that’s affecting positively or negatively. 

[Rosetta]

14 hours ago, lavendertealatte said:

also what's the word on kombucha and kefir and the like during all this?  Bad or good time to add it?

 

Some people think a low histamine diet is important because ADs are anti-histamines.  The idea is that we are struggling with histamine reactions now that we don't have the anti-histamine effect.  One member told me kombucha is too high in histamine.  However, I have been trying it because of gastrointestinal problems.

 

 

 

[lavendertealatte]

Oh dear I’ve never heard of the low histamine diet before. It sounds confusing with the lists not matching up. 

 

But we definitely eat a lot of high in histamine foods...  I think I could try it.  Thanks.  

So what it's saying is the ADs were anti-histamine, so taking them out we don't have that effect anymore?

[FarmGirlWorks]

Thanks for the research on this, Rosetta. LTL, I've been on a low histamine diet for 6 months and am now introducing -- slowly -- food back in like kombucha. I feel like it definitely has helped and now I know more of the why.

[lavendertealatte]

I wonder if I have not been precise enough with my dose.  I tried using a syringe, but couldn't quite figure out how to match it up to the beginning dose on Tuesday.  Tried to just estimate.  Yesterday it spilled upon administering, and I just felt like oh well. 

 

Why is it that some people can even go off cold turkey with little problem, and here I am counting and wondering if my counting is not good enough.

 

 

[lavendertealatte]

14 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I'll ask the other mods for their thoughts.

Thanks Chessie.  I'm confused.. right now I've got what looks to be flu-like symptoms ..

body aches, chills, fatigue, congestion, low appetite.

but I'm also fairly bright-eyed, which is the weird part, and I have no fever, so it doesn't seem to be a genuine flu.

[ChessieCat]

27 minutes ago, lavendertealatte said:

 

Why is it that some people can even go off cold turkey with little problem

 

This is what transpired at my last doctor's appointment (he already knew I was tapering but had never told him about not being able to type).

 

On 06/10/2017 at 11:38 AM, ChessieCat said:

Well I saw my GP today and had an interesting conversation with him, or should I say I presented a mini lecture.  I related my "couldn't type and could type after 4 hours after updose" story because I don't think I had ever told him and he listened intently.  I also mentioned the difference in my dulled excitement at 25mg in May compared to my recent real excitement at 19mg.  I told him that I haven't had any issues taking only capsules of Pristiq.  I also told him that tapering at 10% every 4 weeks I will be off mid 2020 but I am feeling so much better that I'm not worried about that.  I mentioned that I do get a few withdrawal symptoms.  I also told him about the compound pharmacist's comment about a customer taking 18 months to get off 1mg of escitalopram.  That surprised him, so I mentioned that it is stronger than citalopram.  I also managed to mention about delayed withdrawal and my previous cold turkey and how I felt great but then got hit with withdrawal and mentioned that members here see their doctor and the connection isn't made that it is because of going off too quickly and that they need the previous drug not a new one.  When I made the comment that I realised that there are people who can probably get off ADs without problems he shook his head and said "not many".  I was very pleased to hear him say that.  That was a YES!!! moment.

 

It was great to be able to provide him with first hand experience of tapering.  I've done a little bit more to help get the word out.  Hopefully he passes on this information to his colleagues.

 

[lavendertealatte]

On 2/25/2018 at 9:01 AM, Rosetta said:

Hi Lavender,

 

You may feel a lot of very strange things, but don't let them scare you.  I had the freezing chills and hot flashes.  

 

The ADs affect the neurotransmitters and each neurotransmitter affects every other neurotransmitter.  When one is out of whack the others are, too.  They will settle down.  It all becomes a huge mess after the AD is stopped sbruptly.  Your systems will go back to normal, but for now you may get all kinds of strange sensations and odd feelings.  None of them are permanent.  Don't let it scare you.  Everything with temperature regulation is back to normal for me and has been for months. Your reinstatement will probably make this ordeal easier for you and you'll get temp reg back faster than I did. Peace, Rosetta

 

 

Hi Rosetta, the thing is I didn't have these chills before, they started only a few days after reinstating so I'm confused as to whether they are withdrawal or not.  They last for a few seconds at a time and are so cold.

 

Mods?  Anyone? 

[ChessieCat]

22 minutes ago, lavendertealatte said:

right now I've got what looks to be flu-like symptoms ..

body aches, chills, fatigue, congestion, low appetite.

but I'm also fairly bright-eyed, which is the weird part, and I have no fever, so it doesn't seem to be a genuine flu.

 

Sorry, I haven't had any response for the other mods yes.

 

My own thought is that you may need to updose by a small amount.  I will explain my reasoning:

 

Prior to going on Pristiq I CTed citalopram (SSRI).  I felt great for a while.  Then I got hit with what felt like the flu but I knew it wasn't.  I had aches and pains, was bedridden for 2.5 weeks and couldn't eat and lost 8kgs.  I ended up on Pristiq after this.  It wasn't until I joined SA that I realised that is was most probably withdrawal.

 

So, maybe a small increase?  Please read/re-read Post #1 of About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

[ChessieCat]

1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

I CTed citalopram (SSRI).  I felt great for a while.  Then I got hit with what felt like the flu but I knew it wasn't. 

 

It was probably about 6 weeks later that I got the "flu" after the cold turkey so you may be experiencing delayed withdrawal.

[lavendertealatte]

I did a sloppy taper but not cold turkey but now after all this I’m like forget this maybe I should just cold turkey seems I’m having weird symptoms either way 

[lavendertealatte]

Also this leaves me confused as to whether I should continue or increase or stop.  So I am currently on day 8 and started having issues on day 5.  So I can’t tell if like you said this is delayed withdrawal or a bad response to reinstating. But it was not immediate. 

 

Reinstatement 

“

• It takes at least 4 days for your body to fully register the addition of a neuroactive drug. Unless you have an immediate bad reaction, observe your symptom pattern for about a week to see if the reinstatement is helping. If you have an immediate bad reaction, reduce or stop taking the drug.

 

My feet are freezing cold and I feel a bit of nausea as well.. hungry but don't feel like eating.

[ChessieCat]

1/1/2018- Began further taper, down to 0mg by 1/31/2018.  Last dose was 2.5mg. 

 

2/20/18 - Reinstating medication with .6mg.

 

 

You jumped off 2.5mg on at the end of January.  You reinstated 0.6mg 3 weeks later.  It is now another week so 1 month  more (edited to add "more") since stopping 2.5mg.

 

I think that a small increase might be worth trying.  You could try a small amount to test to see if things improve or stay the same.  If they stay the same that it would be okay to stay on that dose OR increase a tiny bit more.

 

If things worsen then it may be better to reduce.

 

Unfortunately you aren't going to know until you try.  But I do urge you not to panic and take too much.  It is better to increase by small amounts than to take too much.

 

I hope that helps you decide what to do.

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by ChessieCat
added "more"

[lavendertealatte]

I’m afraid to increase the dose I feel like too much tweaking might not be so good. 

 

Psychiatrist feels my symptoms should be brought up with a pcp to rule out any medical condition. the chills are odd and not a typical withdrawal symptom. 

[ChessieCat]

7 minutes ago, lavendertealatte said:

 the chills are odd and not a typical withdrawal symptom. 

 

Please see Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Symptoms 29 to 32, namely flu like aches and pains, fever, sweats, chills.

[lavendertealatte]

but why would I be having chills now and no more dizziness?

[ChessieCat]

This is not meant to be a definitive answer, just food for thought about the work that your brain is trying to do.  Remember your brain controls your whole body, not just your thoughts.  I find the Rubik's cube analogy helps me to understand what may be happening Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

And from  What is Happening in Your Brain:

 

"Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 
And just like the Twin Towers- it's possible - but the building is a major effort -and it takes a good year or more sometimes."

[lavendertealatte]

it's a good analogy, I showed it to my husband.

 

I can't think about changing anything right now -- the thought gives me anxiety, I'm going to switch back from the syringe to my previous method of measurement, just because I don't think I've got consistency down with the syringe ironically.  Will see how I do tomorrow.

 

Pdoc thinks I should see PCP to rule out any medical conditions.  PCP doesn't have any openings until more than a week from now.  Let's not talk about how helpless that makes me feel.

 

I'm going in to work tomorrow regardless of how I feel, I've decided!