☼ ChessieCat: so I'm not the only one (Pristiq / desvenlafaxine)

[ChessieCat]

@bubbles

 

Sorry, I missed seeing your post.

 

I've decided to "top up" my doses with liquid and reduce as close to 10% as possible.  My highest reduction was to 5mg at 10.7% and it went okay.  Some of them will only be about 9%.

 

I'm trying to keep the liquid dose as easy to measure as possible.

 

So far I've calculated the combo of capsule and liquid down to 0.296mg.

 

 

[Terry]

On 12/8/2018 at 12:48 AM, ChessieCat said:

I've posted the following info and table in tips-for-tapering-off-pristiq-desvenlafaxine

@CarmieI noticed that quite often you tapered, or proposed to taper, with a 3 (rather than 4) week hold.  Did it work OK for you?  That could shorten total taper time by a fair amount, which is very appealing.

[ChessieCat]

Hi Terry,

 

I've responded in your Intro topic here:

 

terry-withdrawing-from-xanax-and-zoloft

 

[ChessieCat]

UPDATE:  Down to 0.405mg from 0.45mg.

 

Using 0.125mg capsules and liquid to get dose.  Dissolving 2mg capsule in 200mL water.  I keep it refrigerated and use it for 2 weeks, which does not seem to be causing any issues.

 

Once I get to all liquid I will only keep the liquid for 1 week just in case there is deterioration of the dose which I'm not noticing because I only take a tiny amount in liquid.

 

Back issues:  Still experiencing some discomfort occasionally.  It can be brought on by just the simplest movement, eg reaching out with my right hand to something located to the front on the left.  But the good news is that I have noticed it seems to improve more quickly than it previously did which I attribute to the exercises I've been doing as well us understanding what is causing it and therefore not getting too stressed about it.  Although it is like a dull headache which can be ignored for a while and then will suddenly annoy me.  Very rarely get actual pain thankfully.  I've been doing a combination of stretching and strengthening doing hydro, pilates, treadmill walking (10 minutes at 3.5kph = 110 bpm music tempo), and upper body weights (for seniors using 2 x 0.5kg weights).

 

This week I've had a blocked shower drain and was able to lift about 8kg bucket of water without any problem.  Only thing that I've had issues with from squatting and moving differently to how I usually do is sore muscles in the muslces on the outer side at the bottom of my buttocks which could be from hamstring, glute medius or glute minimus.  I'm able to walk with no problems but stepping sideways makes them hurt.  But the good thing is that my glute maximus (maximi?) have stood me in good stead so the work I've been doing has definitely reaped rewards and is very encouraging because I know for sure that it is worth the effort.  Once my sore muscles have recovered I will include some exercises to strengthen them.

[ChessieCat]

Well I've just been calculating my liquid doses and discovered that continuing to go at 10% reductions every 28 days I will not be down to 0.05mg until end of July NEXT YEAR.  I reduced to 0.405mg on 9th January this year 2021 and had thought that I would be off before the end of 2021.  I started tapering off 100mg Pristiq in October 2015.

 

My initial reaction was forget it, just stop now.  If I didn't have my compounded capsules for the rest of my taper already I might have done that.

 

So I've decided that from now on I am going to reduce 10% every 2 weeks which will have me at 0.05mg at the end of October this year.

 

I had considered making larger reductions and holding for 28 days but I think it is better to continue reducing by 10% which will allow me to hold for longer at any point if I feel that I need to.

 

My thinking now is that if I can get to 0.05mg in October this year with minimal issues that I will jump off at that dose.  If not I'll go lower.

 

Honestly part of me wants to stop now.  But I've only just returned to my volunteer job after being away for 10 months and I'm still recovering from my back injury which is taking a lot longer than I expected it to.  It's only recently that I've started being able to do more physically but need to pace myself and not overdo things.

 

I think what is keeping me from being impulsive is the memory of the extreme cog fog and not being able to type when I went from 100mg to 50mg Pristiq before I found SA.  My memory has improved immensely over the last year or so and I don't want to risk messing that up.

 

And the other part of me is saying just keep plodding along the way you are.  If I wasn't having to take part of the dose in liquid it might not be as much of a nuisance to keep going at the slow rate.

 

After typing the above which has ended up being brain storming I've decided that I will try reducing 10% every 3 weeks to start and see how that goes.  I think that is a better option.

[brassmonkey]

Hi CC-- did you ever finish reading the draft copy of Ollie Ollie Oxen Free? Your last comment was from almost six months ago and indicated that you had only read part way through. There is a bunch of technical stuff on how to do the tapers that could be skipped but there is a lot of discussion on the theory that may be helpful.

[manymoretodays]

22 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

After typing the above which has ended up being brain storming I've decided that I will try reducing 10% every 3 weeks to start and see how that goes.  I think that is a better option.

 

Oh Ccat.  Cheering you on......hubba, hubba, rah, rah!  And yes, just back to work, and still rehabilitating the back too.  I'm sure that all plays in right now.  You'll be free before you know it.  Honestly, I went too fast.......and probably paid for it as well......just saying.  You are smarter! ..........  And quicker!  In that knows what to do way.  ❤️ 

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[ChessieCat]

Thanks BM and MMT.

 

I will listen to my body.

 

I've reduced to 0.365mg today.  I did 3 weeks at 0.405mg.

 

My plan was to do 14 days this reduction, but even whilst typing this I'm umming and ahhing about it and thinking that 3 weeks would be more sensible.

 

Yes, it's scary.  It's not being off the drug that is concerning me it's knowing that if I go too fast that things might go bad.

 

And now I'm thinking that it might be better to just continue reducing 4 weekly.

 

Oh dear, what a conundrum.  And yes, I know that only I can make the decision about what to do.  Toss a coin?  How many times?  Weighing up the pros and cons:  the very small inconvenience of making and taking a liquid once/twice a day and possibly a small extra expense of getting more capsules compounded against possible bad withdrawal symptoms.

 

If I wasn't still working I think it would be an easier decision to make.

 

What is at the back of my mind is that The End Game Taper is only a theory.  I've already been tapering for 5 y 3 m, what is another 18 m to 2 y if it means that I get off comfortably?

 

Okay, I've changed my mind.  I'm going to stick to 4 weekly reductions.  It's been working up until now, why change it now?

[bubbles]

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

 

What is at the back of my mind is that The End Game Taper is only a theory.  I've already been tapering for 5 y 3 m, what is another 18 m to 2 y if it means that I get off comfortably?

 

Okay, I've changed my mind.  I'm going to stick to 4 weekly reductions.  It's been working up until now, why change it now?

 

That comes to my mind too, that it's the unknown. I'm also in no rush, though simultaneously I'm over the whole business. 

 

Oh well, one step at a time. 

[ChessieCat]

I think it can be seen from my ramblings that I'm over it too.  However after reading your post @bubbles I realised something which has really helped me so thank you for posting your own thoughts.

 

Reducing faster is the unknown.

 

Reducing by 10% or less is fairly well documented as working okay in most instances.

 

Generally there is no issue with reducing slowly.

 

BUT

 

From what I and probably you too have seen (you've been here since 2012) from other members is that things can turn bad if the drug is taken away too quickly.  And we don't know if that is going to happen to us until we do it.  And then there would be a lot of regret and beating ourselves up for being impatient and doing something stupid when there was a more sure alternative.

 

When gambling on a horse race we can put a bet on a "sure thing" or a "long shot".  If you put money on the "long shot" and it does not win then all you are going to do is lose your money.  If you lost a lot of money it will hurt but not in the same way as ADWD.  Getting off an antidepressant is not a horse race.  We are not gambling with money.  The consequences could have a huge impact on our life.

 

So my celebration has been delayed until next year, but what a celebration it will be after a taper of 7 years.  Just gives me more time to plan what I'm going to do to celebrate!

[mdwstrx]

Hi @ChessieCat

Someone here (you 🙂) wisely once told me to view tapering as an exercise to see how low I could go. That advise has served me well. Why stress over tapering if you don't need to? At some point, you'll be so low you can't go lower. lol. You may be compelled to stop beforehand by choice or by circumstance. Until then, why not take what is the safest and most comfortable path for you? It sounds like you are. 

md

🙏

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Thanks mdwstrx, much appreciated. 

 

As I've been typing my last few posts I could remember telling other members to go slow and also posting about how some of the members have gone too fast and suffered the consequences, as well as some of them ending up taking longer than if they had kept going at a slow rate.

 

What I've typed above has helped me a lot as well as the responses I've received.  Hopefully it will also help some other members.

[marie123]

Hi Chessie. I totally support your decision to go slow. I believe you will have a better outcome when it's over. You will be rewarded with a much more minimal w/d. Be well. Marie.

[ChessieCat]

Thanks Marie.

 

Well after my above brain storming posts and the helpful and encouraging responses I became settled with my decision to continue tapering by 10% every 4 weeks.  After all, the inconvenience is only very minor.  It also means that when I do finally jump off I will know that I have done my very best.  If I get withdrawal symptoms after jumping to 0 I will be very thankful for having been patient.  If I do not get any withdrawal symptoms then I will probably wonder if I could have gone faster and got off sooner but it is not going to making any difference really, at least not in any major way.  But I will admit that it is things like this where I would like to have a "sliding doors" view, without going through any suffering of course.  Sliding Doors is a movie where a woman's love life and career hinge on whether or not she catches a train.  The movie shows both outcomes. 

 

Anyway, today I dropped to 0.365mg and will hold for 4 weeks.

 

Other things:

 

I have returned to work and that is going okay.  Currently doing 2 days in the office and will add in a few hours each week working from home.  I feel that the timing of my return to work was right.  Not just the physical but also the mental.

 

Physically I am noticing how much stronger I am now.  I am noticing that it is becoming second nature to hold my muscles when doing things.  And I am also feeling like getting things done and am now more able to plan ahead rather just get through a few hours at a time.  It can still be difficult to do things at times, eg I need to do an online grocery shop but just cannot face sitting at the computer and doing it.  And that has been for about 2 weeks now (it has not got to the stage where I am desperate for food, yet).  However, I have managed to clean out some cupboards, throw out some things, rearrange where things are to make them more accessible as well as go to the shops and buy some things for organising/storage.  I'm also doing a project of making a towel rack for in the kitchen which will go beside the refrigerator made from PVC pipes and connectors.  I know that my brain and creativity have returned because I have been able to start with an idea which I then realised would not work and adjusted it and come up with a different idea.

 

Part of the kitchen rearrangement involved lifting 2 microwaves (swapping over) and swapping over a medium benchtop oven with a new smaller compact one.  I've also been cleaning out cupboards (using a garden kneeling stool for getting up it really good; I do not kneel on it, just use it to get up) and benches so I've been bending and reaching this way and that.  At all times I try very hard to make things as easy as possible.  I am using antibacterial wipes instead of water/detergent and a cloth so that I do not have to wring out the cloth and make my arthritic fingers worse.  The weird feeling down my leg (caused by nerves in my back being touched) does get worse after doing things but it does not get as bad as it had done and seems to recover faster.  It feels good to be finally able to do things.

[ChessieCat]

Well something "interesting" has happened.  About 2 weeks ago I increased my omega 3 fish oil from 2 capsules per day to 3 per day.  And I've been experiencing sore muscles more than normal.  The interesting thing is that when I first started fish oil I had started magnesium at the same time and experienced back aches.  I've stopped fish oil completely at this time.

 

From https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/22/fish-oil-side-effects-adverse-reactions/

 

Quote

Body aches: Some people claim that fish oil acts as a lubricant for joints and helps ease pain. However, some people actually report a counterintuitive reaction of body aches. You may notice aches in your lower back, chest, or muscles from taking fish oil.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Tomorrow I will be dropping down to 0.328mg.  After all of my umming and aahing above, I've decided that I am going to do some 3 week holds and see how I go.  I have been back at work since mid January and during that time I have also completely cleaned my kitchen including the contents.  A huge job which I did over several weeks.  I want to be off by my 65th birthday if at all possible (November 2022).

 

I could even alternate and do 3 weeks then 4 weeks then back to 3 weeks.  But I'll start with 3 and work from there.

 

Back issues:

 

I've been off the Omega 3 for a while now.  Still not sure if it was causing any problems.  However, I have realised that over the last few years I have been bruising/bleeding very easily which may be related so I am going to stay off it for the time being .

 

This morning I was thinking about why my muscles are still sore, considering all the exercise I have been doing since June last year and I think I might have an explanation.  After hurting my back I was not doing very much which involved legs apart squatting and lifting anything heavy.  Since January I have been doing more physical things around the house so I have been using those muscles.  What is good about understanding this is that I will continue to do those movements because they will strengthen those muscles but I will now pace myself more (eg I flushed my bathroom floor drain yesterday with buckets of water but instead of doing all 4 drains that need doing I only did one and will do a different one later etc).

 

My back is much better than it was but I still get the weird feeling down my leg but it seems to recover more quickly than it did.  I am no longer scared of exercising when it feels like this because I know that I am not doing any harm and the exercise is beneficial and sometimes the exercise does relieve it.  Side stepping exercise seems to help a lot.

 

[getofflex]

@ChessieCatI hope and pray you have success.  You and I are close to the same age.  I'll be 60 in May.  I'm glad that your back is feeling better.  

[Heath]

Hello @ChessieCat ! You have been busy ! That is a good thing ! I too have nerves in low back too close to things and feelings in my leg and foot do same thing . I try to keep moving doing something. It took me years to figure out that I can still do all things. Just have to do them a little different. I did not know that about omega 3 fish oil can possibly cause joint pain ? I wish you well on your ssri jump off time! Glad you are feeling good ! 

[ChessieCat]

☺️ Thanks.

[ChessieCat]

I realised last night that I have missed my evening dose capsule of 0.125mg (daily total 0.328mg) at some time during the last 2.5 weeks.  No idea when.

 

I'm not going to worry about it and will still make a reduction this week after 3 weeks on 0.328mg. 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by ChessieCat
corrected total amount

[getofflex]

I hope this missed dose doesn't cause any problems for you.  Good luck with your next reduction.  🙂

[Erell]

2 hours ago, getofflex said:

I hope this missed dose doesn't cause any problems for you.  Good luck with your next reduction.  🙂

Wanted to write the exact same post 😃

 

Please be carefull, you've gone so far on your taper and are an amazing example of patience and inspiration.

 

In the meantime..it sounds a bit like healing, doesn't it ? 

I remember at the end of my benzo taper, I realised one day that I had forgot my dose the day before.

I was a bit worried...but happy too, because it meant that benzo was not an important part of my life anymore 😉

 

Take care ☀️

[ChessieCat]

Thanks for your kinds thoughts "guys"!

 

I have decided to continue tapering even thought I missed part of a dose.  It's been a 3 week hold.

 

Reducing down to 0.296mg today.  And I managed to mess it up from the start.

 

I had the left over capsule from the missed dose.  So I took it and counted out 20 capsules.  And then I went back into the bathroom to take my other regular tablets and automatically took another capsule.  So I've taken 0.25mg this morning instead of 0.125mg.  So I will miss the capsule I should have taken tonight and just take the liquid portion.  It can be so easy to mess up if we don't stick to our routine.

 

At least the dose amount for the day will be the same.  And at least I realised that I had done it.  Very glad that I'm only dealing with small doses now.

 

Now that I'm having to make liquid and change the ratio so as to make it easier to measure the dose I need, I'm starting to understand how difficult the calculations can be for people who are not very good at maths.  And of course brain fog doesn't help either even if you are good with maths.  I try to do my calculations when my thinking is clear.

[Stellie]

You're still an inspiration!!  Hope all continues to go well for you.

 

[getofflex]

It does get harder to measure at the lower doses.  I understand the brain fog.  

[ChessieCat]

Thanks getofflex, that makes me feel a bit better about it.  Wow, I've just noticed that you are down to 0.11mg Lexapro.  That's fantastic.

 

I triple or more check my calculations.  Yesterday I made my new batch of liquid.  Yet this morning I started questioning whether I had done it correctly.  I just have to trust that I am.

 

Once I get to all liquid, ie after I am not taking a 0.125mg compounded capsule as part of my dose, I am going to have to be very careful that I have got it right.

 

Just in case anyone is interested in my liquid calculations.  To work out what I need to measure out with a syringe I divide the dose I need by the mg amount that 1mL of the liquid contains (right side of the =).  It depends on how many numbers there are after the decimal point of the required dose which ratio I use.  Sometimes I will round up or down to make it so that I do not have to measure anything less than 1mL.  Obviously I prefer to use the least amount of liquid I need so I do not need to measure too much by syringes for my dose (syringes mL:  1, 3, 5, 10, but will look at what larger syringes are available).  So basically I work out what dose I need and then use each of these to find out what ratio will work best for that particular reduction. 

 

2mg / 200mL =  0.01mg : 1mL

2mg / 400mL =  0.005mg : 1mL

2mg / 1000mL = 0.002mg : 1mL

 

0.125mg / 25mL = 0.005 : 1mL

0.125mg / 125mL = 0.001mg : 1mL

0.125mg / 250mL = 0.0005mg : 1mL

0.125mg / 500mL = 0.00025 : 1mL

[Heath]

@ChessieCat I have done that myself with the meds missing or wrong dose. Sometimes after I took my dose I wonder if I hit the rt line on syringe. I’ve caught myself thinking of other things during taking medication. It’s like going through motions. So now I try and stop my thoughts of life and such and just think of dosage.  Doesn’t always work 🤷‍♂️😁 but it definitely helps me! Hang in there!

[Erell]

Hello Chessiecat,

 

I was just thinking of something  : as you mentioned getting hives from Roma tomatoes, I was wondering if you had read about histamines and low histamine diet?

It might not be an issue for you, and perhaps you've already done your researches, but I thought I'll mention it just in case.

 

Perhaps you'll find this website interesting (mentionned by Giak on the histamine thread) :

 

https://healinghistamine.com/blog/

 

Take care ☀️

 

Oh and Congratulations with the 0.295mg 💪

[Carmie]

Hi ChessieCat, 

 

How are you doing? Looks like you’re doing really well with your taper. 
 

I’m sorry you’re in lockdown down in Sydney. We had a four day lockdown recently here in Brisbane and still have to wear masks until this Friday. You never know what’s going to happen from one day to the next, but we haven’t had any community transmission for a number of days now. Things change quickly though, don’t they?

 

I hope you are coping okay and keeping warm. 
 

Sending hugs🤗

[ChessieCat]

Hi Carmie.  Thanks for dropping in.

 

I'm doing well with my taper.

 

Tomorrow I drop to 0.1mg Pristiq.

 

After not experiencing any issues earlier this year I decided to speed up my taper.

 

I still reduce by 10% each reduction.  So far I've made the following reductions:

 

Starting 6 March 2021:

 

21 days x 2

 

14 days x 5

 

7 days x 4

 

My plan is to continue reducing 10% every week.  If all goes well I will be completely off at the end of October 2021.  That will be a 6 year taper.  And coincidentally will be close to the anniversary of joining SA.

 

At this time my planned final dose will be 0.0025mg.  However, I could go lower if I need to.

 

 

[getofflex]

@ChessieCatI'm glad to hear your tapering is going so well!  You are so close to being done.  Congratulations! 

[Frogie]

@ChessieCat

 

I’m glad you’re doing so well😊

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Carmie]

That’s wonderful news Chessiecat, 

 

I’m really happy for you. You will be off them in no time. 
 

Well done, a gold star for you⭐️😁

 

Sending hugs 🤗

[mdwstrx]

@ChessieCat

I'm so happy for you that your tapering is going so well!!! October is just around the corner! It is well worth the long journey to have done it correctly! 

 

I have a question. I'm having problems finding a syringe that will accurately pick up and display the small dosages. Are you tapering liquid? If so, what syringe do you use?

 

Thanks!

md

🌼

[ChessieCat]

@mdwstrx I've responded in your intro.

 

Thanks for the support everyone.  It is now so close to the end.  I'm down to 0.07mg and only have 2 months (literally) before I'm off.  Last dose will be on 22nd October 2021.

 

A few times I've been tempted to just stop but then I remind myself that I am already doing a fast taper off the last bit.

 

I had my first AstraZenaca vaccination the other day.  I have posted about it in the Covid topic here and here.  The first post explains my decision process.  The second post is about the things I did to prepare.  I also mention that I did feel a bit scared about having the vaccine.

 

Keep plodding along.  We each have our own path to travel in our own time.  If we keep putting one foot in front of the other we will get to the finish line.

[getofflex]

Excellent job.  I hope the rest of the taper goes well and you have no effects from the vaccine.  I had the Covid J and J vaccine in May and it has no bad effects on me. (The Shingrix was a different matter).  I suppose it is winter where you are.