bjesti: Quetiapin/Seroquel, now Cymbalta

[bjesti]

Hey,

 

I'm new here.

I was prescribed Stesolid and Paralgin Forte for fifteen years. Ended this in December 2015.

I have ended my use of Cipralex (SSRI), and Remeron, which I got during my withdrawal periode.

I still use Quetiapin (100 mg x 2).

I am having a severe depression.

How shall I go on with Quetiapin to end this cruel situation?

 

I'm Norwegian. Sometimes my English might be  a little different... 

Edited October 16, 2016 by JanCarol
tags added

[ChessieCat]

Hi bjesti,

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA for short),

 

When members first join SA, we ask them to Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature.  Please include details for drugs your have taken during 2015 & 2016 and a summary of any drugs before 2015.  Please include ALL drugs, dates and doses and how you decreased or increased them (did you skip days? did you alternate doses?).

 

Do you want to taper / wean off your Quetiapin?  I have included a link below about SA's recommended way to taper antidepressant drugs (Why taper by 10% of my dosage?).

 

When we have more information we will be able to offer you suggestions.

 

You can ask questions in your Intro/Update topic and journal your progress.  Click "Follow this link" top right and you will be notified when someone replies.

 

Here are some links to information you can read:

 

Introduction to AD Withdrawal Syndrome
 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Tips for tapering off Seroquel (quetiapine)

[scallywag]

bjesti -- -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

A couple of quick questions, in addition to the great information that ChessieCat has listed:

 

When was your last dose of Cipralex?

 

What was the dose (mg)?

[bjesti]

scallywag,

Hello!

My last Cipralex dose was  a couple of months ago, and I have tapered from 20 mg to 5 mg during a couple of months before that.

I'm sorry for this diffuse .... but I have not been very scared,  or interested in these pills, because I all the time have been so convinced that the reason of all my misery has been/is my cold tyrkeys from,  first Stesolid, then Sobril.

Now I see that all of those pills might have made much damage in my CNS/brain.

I'm "glad" that there is just one left, Seroquel.

And I shall taper it slow.

[scallywag]

When members first join SA, we ask them to Please put your Withdrawal History in Signature.  Please include details for drugs your have taken during 2015 & 2016 and a summary of any drugs before 2015.  Please include ALL drugs, dates and doses and how you decreased or increased them (did you skip days? did you alternate doses?).

 

Do you want to taper / wean off your Quetiapin?  I have included a link below about SA's recommended way to taper antidepressant drugs (Why taper by 10% of my dosage?).

 

When we have more information we will be able to offer you suggestions.

 

bjesti, when you have a moment, would you please create a signature and answer Chessie's questions?

[bjesti]

Hey,

Scallywag.

I did it earlier this evening.

But how do I attach "About me" at the bottom of my posts?

 

    About Me

2000: Colon removal.

 

2000-2015: Stesolid (diazepam), 10 mg per day.

2000-2014: Paralgin Forte (kodeinfosfatsesquihydrat), two pills a day.

2014-2015: Tramadol, 100 mg per day.

April, 2015: Cold turkey from both. On mental hospital.

April, 2015: Cipralex (escitalopram),10 mg per day. Withdrawal during this summer (2016). Finished.

April, 2015:  Remeron. First 60 mg per day, then 30 mg, then 15 mg, now: Finished tapering.

April, 2016 (?): Seroquel (quetiapin). First 300 mg per day. Now: 200 mg per day.

I want to taper Seroquel till zero.

[ChessieCat]

Thank you bjesti, your signature looks good, but it will help us if you would please add the following information:

 

April, 2015: Cipralex (escitalopram),10 mg per day. Withdrawal during this summer (2016). Finished.

 

Please add:  Date/month you started reducing.  How you reduced the dose.  Date/month you finished.

 

April, 2015:  Remeron. First 60 mg per day, then 30 mg, then 15 mg, now: Finished tapering.

 

Please add:  Date/month you started reducing.  How long you stayed on each dose.  Date/month you finished.

 

April, 2016 (?): Seroquel (quetiapin). First 300 mg per day. Now: 200 mg per day.

 

Please add:  Date/month you started reducing.  How you reduced the dose.  How long you stayed on each dose.

 

Thank you

[bjesti]

ChessieCat

Can I be a member here without these informations?

I have not written any log for it, so I can't give more info than what is written in my signature.

[ChessieCat]

Hi bjesti,

 

Yes, you can still be a member.  We like to have as much information as possible if people can give it to us.  If you can remember what month you stopped the different drugs that would be good, but if you can't, that's okay.

[bjesti]

Cipralex: Finisher in June 2016.

Remeron: Finished in July 2016.

Seroquel: Still using.

And since March 2015 I haven't used Stesolid or Tramadol. 

[ChessieCat]

Thank you bjesti, that is really helpful information.

 

Would you please add that information to your signature so that we will be able to see it at a glance?

 

Can you remember when you dropped your dose to 200 mg of Seroquel?

 

Because you stopped Cipralex in June 2016 and Remeron in July 2016, and you have changed your dose from 300 mg to 200 mg of Seroquel it might be best to wait a few months before you start to taper your Seroquel.

 

Please keep notes everyday on paper of what symptoms you are getting.

[scallywag]

bjesti -- your signature looks good. Whenever you change your signature, it changes everywhere you've posted before.

 

It's more helpful when you put actual dates rather than relative time periods such as 30 days. 

 

So your line about Seroquel could read

Seroquel: From May 2016. 300 mg per day. middle of July 2016: 200 mg per day.

 

Then when you reduce dosage again in the future, you will just add that change, to the line:

Seroquel: From May 2016. 300 mg per day. middle of July 2016: 200 mg per day; 01-Sept-2016 180 mg

[bjesti]

Hey.

Five days ago my psychiatrist and my GP made me start using Cymbalta. I have read a lot of posts on the net, and it looks like it is a terrible medicine to quit. Should I go on using it, or cut it out immediately. What is your experience with this drug?

[Altostrata]

bjesti, please use search in the Introductions forum to find other people on Cymbalta.

 

What do you mean when you say "my psychiatrist and my GP made me start using Cymbalta"? Did you not need to consent?

[bjesti]

Yes, of course. I wanted it. I was desperate. I didn't know how to cope with life. I was about to give up. No plans, but thoughts.

But tonight I have read a lot of terrible stories about quitting both Seroquel and Cymbalta, so now I will start taper both of them.

My depression is strong, but this poison will only prolong my suffering, I think. 

[ang]

Hello bjesti, how are you?                     Write when you can,  yes seroquel and all these things are hard to get off,           BUT WELL WORTH THE EFFORT.                     Yes the poisons prolong the suffering, but you need to get well SLOWLY,   

 

If I did it, YOU CAN TOO!

[bjesti]

Hey,

I stopped Cymbalta after five days.

Seroquel: I still use it, but I am tapering. I used 200 mg, and now i use 100 mg. My depression and anxiety is so hard that I still need it to sleep. One day in the future I have finishes it!

[genlady]

Hey,

I stopped Cymbalta after five days.

Seroquel: I still use it, but I am tapering. I used 200 mg, and now i use 100 mg. My depression and anxiety is so hard that I still need it to sleep. One day in the future I have finishes it!

Bjesti,

 

In the past I have come off Seroquel and I did it 25mg. a month at a time and had difficulty.  Please don't come down 100mg. at a time.  Doing at 10% per month is fast enought.  You will have anxiety and trouble sleeping, but it won't be as severe as if you come off 100mg.  I am only concerned for you.  

 

Genlady.

[VitaminB]

You took a 50% drop from 200 to 100mg....10% is safer! You have to get your doctor to give you smaller pills or get a scale and start cutting your 100mg pills! 

[bjesti]

What reactions can come if tapering too fast?

[scallywag]

Hey,

I stopped Cymbalta after five days.

Seroquel: I still use it, but I am tapering. I used 200 mg, and now i use 100 mg. My depression and anxiety is so hard that I still need it to sleep. One day in the future I have finishes it!

 

bjesti, I'm sorry that none of us on the moderators' team noticed this post ^ of yours.

 

Thank you  genlady  & VitaminB for replying and strongly stating that the 50% reduction from 200 mg to 100 mg was a very large decrease and probably too much. You are both absolute gems for noticing bjesti's post.

 

bjesti, you asked "What reactions can come if tapering too fast?"

Simple answer: Your symptoms will get worse, possibly much worse.

 

In August, not long after your first post, ChessieCat recommended that you keep taking 200 mg for a few months before starting to reduce it.

 

Because you stopped Cipralex in June 2016 and Remeron in July 2016 and you have changed your dose from 300 mg to 200 mg of Seroquel,

it might be best to wait a few months before you start to taper your Seroquel.

 

Please keep notes everyday on paper of what symptoms you are getting.

It's been about 9 days since you decreased your dose to 100 mg (Sept. 15). I suggest that you return to 200 mg today or tomorrow and stay at that dose until at least December 1, 2016. If your symptoms are still difficult to tolerate in December, we will probably suggest that you continue to hold at 200 mg for another 6-8 weeks before decreasing dose by a small amount, 10% or 20 mg, to 180 mg.

 

Please continue to keep notes on paper of the reactions and symptoms you have.

 

Please continue to post about how things are going for you.

[bjesti]

Correction: Since Sept 14. I have used 150 mg. (50 mg depot and 50 mg ordinary  before going to sleep, and 50 mg at four-five in the morning, to sleep more...

The last two nights I have slept very little, and I I am more nervous, anxious and depressed than ever. 

The high anxiety has come after I started using Seroquel. Can these pills cause anxiety?

I'm so confused.

[scallywag]

It's hard to know whether the anxiety you're experiencing is a

• symptom of withdrawal from discontinuing Cipralex (escitalopram) -- stopped in June 2016
• symptom of withdrawal from discontinuing Remeron (mirtazapine) -- started in April 2016, stopped in July 2016

  -- or --

• an adverse "side" effect of Seroquel, which you
  • started taking 300 mg in May 2016
  • decreased to 200 mg in July 2016
  • decreased to 150 mg on Sept. 14, 2016

All that said, it is likely the combination of all the changes that have taken place in less than six months that your central nervous system (CNS) is responding to.  Each change requires considerable work for the CNS.  When several changes in medications (start, increase, decrease, stop) occur over a short period of time, the CNS gets overloaded with work and doesn't get all the work done in a timely way. These 2 links may help you understand this process:

 

Topic on this site: Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)

 

 

Youtube video, 3 min 44 sec:  Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

 

You may also find this topic helpful: Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

[bjesti]

Thank you, Scallywag!

I will not reinstate any of the drugs I have used, but use a long time on tapering the last, Seroquel.

I have read and seen the articles and the video. And I know this will still take a long time to recover from.

[Altostrata]

Hello, bjesti.

 

You made a lot of big drug changes in a short time. If I were you, I would stop reducing Seroquel right now. Take the same amount every day at the same time. Be very regular in the way you take it.

 

Your nervous system needs to settle down. Drug changes upset it.

 

What are your symptoms? Do they follow any daily pattern?

[bjesti]

My symptoms are depression and anxiety. I am totally out of life. Nothing interests me. I suffer every second I am awake. 

[VitaminB]

I am sorry you are feeling anxiety. I can only speak from my experience with seroquel that when I go down to fast I will lay in bed with anxiety until I get back on the old dose. I know the dread of feeling like I am never going to get to sleep. I would listen to the advice that is being given. As we learned in science class, when you do an experiment you should keep the variables to as few as possible so you can have better insight into what is going on. If you have too many variables you maybe led astray in proving your hypothesis. Withdrawing from drugs is not a science because it hasn't been studied! They tell us, "You will be on this drug for the rest of your life" and rake in their life time of earnings. Please treat this as an experiment, because it is! It is a delicate experiment with your future at stake! Alto has posted about making a percentage drop and seeing how you do for a month, then repeat that and see how you do. You will have a clear picture then on how to speed up or slow down! Go by percentages for your brain's sake! Don't be misled by the way they manufacture the pills. Tapering by adhering a plan based off of percentage decreases is not as neat and tidy as 200mg, 100mg, 50mg, and 25mg pill sizes. It is more messy and clumsy. They lead us astray with the size of the pills! I am speaking from experience, please go back up on your seroquel and let things calm down! You won't regret it! Slow and steady wins the race! The turtle will get free faster then the rabbit! The rabbit has to start from a high dose over and over (at least in America.) Have you looked into what Finland is doing? They are very successful in helping people without drugs..... maybe you could meet allies in the time you spend waiting to make another decrease? Finland has higher rates then the USA of getting people better.... 

[scallywag]

Altostrata's question was about a daily pattern of symptoms. Would you keep notes about when you take your dose(s) and when your symptoms occur or change in intensity?

 

We're looking for notes like this for every individual day:
 

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in morning
- Time and description of any symptoms in the morning

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in afternoon
- Time and description of any symptoms in the afternoon

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in evening
- Time and description of any symptoms in the evening

- Time and dosage for drugs taken in middle of the night
- Time and description of any symptoms in the middle of the night (such as waking)

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, such as:

6 a.m. Woke and vomited
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Had diarrhea
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Stomachache
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Headache got worse
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke with headache

Do this for every single day -- a daily diary.

[JanCarol]

Hej Bjesti - 

 

It looks to me like you are suffering antidepressant withdrawal, complicated by a too fast taper of quetiapine.

 

You came off the Cipralex too fast (it is a particularly vicious tiger), and you came off mirtazapine way too fast, and you are tapering quetiapine too fast, too.

 

Are you still on 150 mg quetiapine?  Please hold there for at least a month, and probably more like - until after the holidays.

 

I know many people who regret the pain of coming off their drugs too fast.

 

I know nobody who regrets coming off their drugs too slow.  

 

Delayed Onset of Withdrawal Symptoms - tells us that your brain and body have adjusted to these drugs, and it's not about "getting it out of your body," but rebuilding your brain.

 

The risks of coming off too fast could be years of disability (only doctors will say "relapse" and "original condition" = but it's really just after-effects of the drugs.  3 months, 6 months, a year, 2 years after quitting the drugs).

 

Here are some descriptions of antidepressant withdrawal so you can understand better how this process works

Withdrawal Dialogues - cartoons to encourage you

 

Intro to Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome

 

Healing from Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery (by Toxic Antidepressants)

 

I'm also inclined for you to consider an antidepressant reinstatement.  At this point, I don't know which one - Cipralex is this big bad one, and the one you are mostly likely "depressed" from.

 

Please read this topic, too:

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Stop Withdrawal Symptoms

 

What Vitamin B is talking about is the fact that pharma doesn't give us tapering kits, or ways to get off the drugs.  So we have to often make a liquid:

How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

 

I'm sorry you are struggling.  At first, SA will seem backwards to everything you've heard from doctors.  This is because what doctors are doing - piling on more drugs - is not working.  What we do here, works, is evidence based, and we try to stay as close to the science side of things as possible.

 

I know he has spoken in your country to promote his book - so it may be translated into your native language.  If you can get a copy of Robert Whitaker's excellent, "Anatomy of an Epidemic," it may explain better what has happened - and is happening to you.

 

Yes.  Depression is real.  But the drugs only make it worse, drive it deeper, and make it more chronic.  They are not tested long term, and the long term consequences are what many of us are seeing now.

 

You can get better, but you will need to take charge of your condition and learn how to make it better.

 

ps.  coming off codeine = 1 week to a month, tops.  Coming off these other drugs?  Can sometimes take a lifetime.  They're not kidding when they say, "drugs for the rest of your life," but they don't appreciate that we don't like having our bodies damaged in the process!

[bjesti]

JanCarol

 

Thank you!

I am still on 150 mg, and I will not taper until next year, then slowly.

 

"It looks to me like you are suffering antidepressant withdrawal, complicated by a too fast taper of quetiapine."

 

This must be so.

But I will not reinstate anything. It is too long ago now.

I just have to be patient and hope that my life will turn back...

[MNgal1960]

bjesti,  I'm glad you are following the suggestions to stop tapering for awhile and let your nervous system heal. Yes, do not reinstate. Just take the same dose of the Seroquel every day. Your brain needs stability now to heal. And it need slow tapers. With patience, you will overcome this! Most of us have been in very painful places with depression and anxiety from these drugs and from trying to get off too quickly.

 

I am on Seroquel and Valium. I did a slow taper to get my Seroquel lower. It was very difficult. I started with dry cutting the tablets but could not make small enough cuts. So I switched to making a liquid suspension. I got down to a very low dose and decided to stop tapering for awhile and let my brain catch up with healing. It is slowly doing that.

 

Our brains do heal. We don't believe it when we are depressed. I didn't believe it when I was depressed. But our brains do heal. We just need to give them the time they need.

 

Here is a thread with guided meditations that people in this group have used to help them through difficult times. These have helped me a lot. I do one or two every day now.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6122-guided-meditations-calming-videos-sleep-hypnosis/

 

Best wishes,

MN

[MNgal1960]

bjesti, hope you are doing OK. I've paused my Seroquel taper. Symptoms were too intense. Now just waiting. Hope to hear from you again.

 

MN

[bjesti]

I am very depressed. But I will never give up!

[MNgal1960]

I'm so sorry to hear you're depressed. I have been through that, too. In fact, it comes on so strong sometimes I think I cannot bear it. But I say, too, I will never give up!

 

We will never give up!

 

MN

[jmncrr]

HI bjesti,

 

I am also tapering an antipsychotic, and have a simple question.

 

Have you had any anxiety during your taper, and was it psychological or physical anxiety?

 

Thank you

[bjesti]

jmncrr

 

Yes!!!

I am full of anxiety, both types.

Tomorrow I will get hospitalized again. ECT.

I have given up  getting well again on my own after almost two years in hell.