nystumbleweed: 5 months off Prozac.

[nystumbleweed]

Hi, I am new to this forum.   I’ve tried to get everything I remember into my signature.  Things are really foggy these days.

 

My initial impulse, now that I’m posting an entry here, is to just write: Help! — I’m sinking and I need help.  But I’ll try to modulate that a bit and give my history. 

 

I’m on Month 5 of Prozac withdrawal, and my second week of no Benzos whatsoever after a few months of tapering off.  I only recently discovered this site and I’ve come to realize that I might have not given myself enough time to taper off Prozac.  I went off of it over the course of a month too.  

 

I have suffered on and off from depression my whole life, with a number of major , debilitating, long depressive episodes.  And I have been on lots of SSRIs over the years.   About six or seven years ago, after a merry go round of new meds and accompanying new side effects,  I went off of psych meds altogether without too much withdrawal trouble .  I  continued to battle depression but I tried alternative treatments such as nutrition/supplements and neurofeedback along with CBT, which helped me just keep my head above water. 

 

Then, 3 years ago, I had a particularly bad spell.  I lost my business.  Dropped out of a relationship and friendships. In consultation with my psychiatrist, I made the decision of going on Prozac as a last ditch effort. And the prozac helped I think.  At the time I remember thinking that it saved my life.  Now I'm not so sure it was worth it. 

 

No big surprise, The Prozac stopped working after two years or so.  And then I was just stuck.  I was reluctant to try another SSRI for fear of going through the trial and error test to find something that works without bad side effects.  And afraid to go off.  Then, this year,l I learned that SSRIs cause the brain to decrease it's serotonin production.   Since the Prozac didn't seem to be helping anyway, It seemed the direction to go was OFF the prozac and get through the withdrawal.  I didn't think it would be so bad since I had gone off of SSRIs before.  I was so wrong. 

 

Now I’m in a nightmare.  The nightmare many people have written about here.  At least after finding this site, I have a bit more understanding of what I’m going through.   I have had the leg cramps at night that wake me up.  I Simply can’t sleep. I get maybe 2-4 hours a night if I’m lucky.   I’m agitated. I feel like I’m crawling out of my skin.   I have a continual apocalyptic narrative in my head underscoring everything I do. I despair.  I Hate myself and my life. I’m in my 50’s and all I can see are the horrible things about growing old and being alone.   I can hardly watch TV because it just offers more material for me to churn through my negative, hopeless perspective.   TV used to be an escape.  Not anymore.   This isn’t like the depression I’ve known most of my adult life.  This is like going crazy.  

 

I don’t know what to do.  I don’t think I can handle more of this. Let alone years more of this.  The people on this site are the only ones who have any clue what this is like.   I don’t now what to do.  Should I go back on antidepressants?  My psychiatrist and psychologist think that meds are a necessary evil.  I am taking Trazodone for sleep, which I dread getting hooked on so I avoid it if at all possible.   And my psychiatrist told that I can take 10 mg of valium a day, no problem, for the anxiety and panic.   But I don’t trust that.  I’ve gone off of Valium because from what I've read I think that it will just make things worse in the long run.  It’s so confusing getting conflicting information from medical professionals.  

 

Any advice anyone has about ANY part of this , would be welcome.  I have been on the verge of going into an inpatient facility for the last few weeks, but I hesitate because I know they will insist on reinstating some SSRI.

 

Thanks very much.  

Edited September 21, 2016 by scallywag
Added tags; CC prev. edit - white space for ease of reading.

[nz11]

Welcome nsw

I am so sorry you are in this most difficult nightmare situation ...it sounds like you really are 'going down' in the Hudson.

 

Your situation is complicated.

 

You have articulated this withdrawal nightmare very well. Especially the endless hopeless narrative offered up on a daily basis by an iatrogenically impaired brain and cns.

 

I agree with you that to go to an inpatient facility may be a dangerous thing to do. It is difficult to imagine that one will leave without being turned into a chemical dumpsite.

 

Your pdoc and psychologist are clearly very ignorant on withdrawal. After many years of psychotropic drug exposure you may well have needed to taper for several years (3-6) to allow the brain to slowly heal instead you were sent on a kamakazi one month taper and the fallout is often delayed....as you are now finding out.

On top of ssri withdrawal it sounds like you are adding benzo withdrawal on top of it. 

 

I cant see from your sig what amount of valium you have tapered so far. (You might like to clarify this) But doing that to an already destabilized nervous system is going to worsen things. If i were you i'd stop tapering the valium.

If the suffering has got too much I would give thought to considering a small reinstatement of the prozac in an attempt to alleviate the withdrawal.

 

You might like to read this link on reinstatement

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

Hang in there and hopefully a few moderators will be in shortly to put you on the right flight path to a safe landing.

Im so glad you have found sa.

nz11

[Bruin]

Welcome nystumbleweed.......What you are describing sounds to me like classic WD. I relate to much of what you write, down to not being able to watch TV.

I am 60 and also by myself and there are times when I feel terrified by the prospect of going into old age feeling like this. 

However I have also experienced enough windows to know that recovery is happening. One of the awful things about WD is that our minds tell us that 

we will always be like we are if not worse. Like you I have found WD to be a harder experience than Depression. However I also know that the nightmare will 

pass and we will get better......I am sure a Moderator will be along soon with more practical advice and links etc. 

 

For myself I have decided to come off Benzos and have tapered down to 3 mg of Valium a day. I intend to drop this by 10% next month and continue 

until I am completely off. You have been off Prozac for 5 months which is not a long time but quite far out for reinstatement,   I am sure a moderator 

will advise on this. Sometimes a small reinstatement and slow taper can work and make the process more comfortable. If you are in great distress it may be 

a path worth considering. There is a lot of information and experience on the site. 

 

Anyhow a big welcome and may your days and nights get easier.. You have certainly landed in the right place with SA. 

[scallywag]

nystumbleweed -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

I'm sorry you've needed to find your way here but am glad that you did find us and post. Thanks for creating and posting a signature.

 

It's possible that what you experienced as the "Valium no longer helping" was withdrawal from Prozac.  Our esteemed friend and SA member, nz11, has given you a link to a topic with good information about symptoms that arise during SSRI withdrawal.

 

Here are two links that helped me understand what is happening during withdrawal as the CNS (central nervous system) adjusts to the changes in dosage:

How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

Youtube video, 3 min 44 sec: Healing from antidepressants

 

Skipping days of neuro-psychoactive drugs, such as you're doing with Valium, can set the stage for problems. What are your thoughts about returning to a consistent daily dose? You may want to read our discussion topic on the Ashton manual about safe discontinuation. There are other relevant topics pinned to the top of our Members-only forum focused on benzo medications.

 

For reference, here are topics relevant to your situation:

Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

Are you open to reinstating a very small dose of Prozac? Please note this is a question about willingness, not a suggestion to do so. If you are willing to test it, someone on the moderating team will suggest a dose for your consideration.

 

Reinstatement is most effective soon after the last dose; as time passes since the last dose, the likelihood of it being effective decreases and the risk of worsening symptoms increases. That said, there are members here at SA who have reinstated successfully 6 months and more after their last dose.  Aside from reinstatement, time is the only other known "cure" for w/d symptoms.

 

For more detail, please read About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

A tip: You may way want to follow this topic so that you get notifications when someone posts in your thread. Click the gray "Follow this topic" button. A dialog box appears: select one of the notify options, then click follow this topic in the dialog box.  

 

I've given you lots to read. Have a look at the linked topics. If you have questions, please post them here in your introduction so that all your information stays in one place.

[nz11]

nsw

I was just wondering when did you start taking the trazodone?

That drug is also another antidepressant of the older style and will need to be tapered as per the link SW gave you.

Taking 100mg of trazodone is equivalent in dose to taking 10mg of prozac.

If you were to take trazodone and prozac together it could increase the risk of whats called serotonin syndrome. This comes up as a major interaction when these drugs are entered into the online 'drug interaction checker ' and also mentioned in the trazodone link above.

[nystumbleweed]

Hi nz11, 

Thanks very much for your replies.  And thanks Bruin and Scallywag . It means so much to me to hear back from people.  I feel 

very very alone in this.  And confused.  

 

I'm taking 50 mg of Trazodone at bedtime.  It's helping a bit with the sleep, but not much.  

I've been on it for three weeks. My pdoc recommended going up to 100 mg which I'm reluctant to do.  

 

The questions I roll around in my head are:  Should I go up in dose to sleep better?  Should I get off the Trazodone while it's still early? If I do go off do I need to taper down again with split pills?   And Finally , Is going on Trazodone a form of reinstatement of SSRIs that will help me with WD from Fluoxetine?  It doesn't seem to be doing that at all, but it did occur to me.   I really need to stabilize.  I keep telling myself that I've made it this far.  

 

 

In answer to your Valium question, I was on 20 mg of Valium at the most.   And was still anxious a lot of the time.  I figured hitting 20 mg meant that  I'd habituated.  Being hooked scared me.  I thought it would take me farther down the drain.  I wish I'd written down my taper of the valium, but I didn't.  I'm sure I went off of that too quickly too.   I've been off of benzos completely for three weeks now.  Very tempting sometimes to take the Valium occasionally for panic.  

 

Hope everyone is doing ok today.  

[scallywag]

Would you put the date you started taking trazodone in your signature? If you don't have enough room (there is a limit to the # of signature lines) you can delete the paragraph at the top where you describe your experience on SSRIs.

 

When getting medication and withdrawal history out of one's head and into written format, inconsistencies can arise. Here's one that leaves me a bit confused:

1. in your first post you say "I've gone off Valium"
2. your signature says you're taking 5 mg Valium every other day;

Which is correct? If you are no longer taking Valium, please update your signature, removing it from your "Current Meds" line. It is important for us to know "at a glance" in your signature that you have taken it, so please add/include information about your history with and taper from Valium.

 

If you are currently taking Valium and trazodone

When a someone is taking multiple medications, we ask that that you post an interactions report. Follow the link below to get your report. Just select the text, copy it and paste it in a post here.
Drugs-dot-com Drugs Interactions Checker.
 

Please read at least the first post of this topic discussing situations where someone is taking more than 1 neuro-psycho-active medication:

Taking multiple drugs? Which to taper first.  
 

Your questions:  
Should I go up in dose to sleep better?

Rather than increasing the trazodone dose, we suggest that you investigate non-pharma solutions to dealing with insomnia.

Tips to help sleep

 
Should I get off the Trazodone while it's still early?

That depends. What do you think you will do if you stop trazodone and your insomnia gets worse?

Are you considering reinstating fluoxetine?

 
If I do go off [trazodone] do I need to taper down again with split pills?

Yes. Please read the trazodone topic I posted above.

 
Is going on Trazodone a form of reinstatement of SSRIs that will help me with WD from Fluoxetine?

Two parts to your question

Trazodone isn't an SSRI, but that is one way of viewing your doctor's advice and prescriptions.

The intent was likely to help with WD but the most effective way of dealing with SSRI WD is "hair of the dog that bit you," a small dose of fluoxetine.

[bintuae]

"I have suffered on and off from depression my whole life, with a number of major , debilitating, long depressive episodes." Sorry, but why would you go off meds when you have what seems a severe depression?  In case you' recovered from WD, then you'll get back to your old self which is suffering from a number of major, debilitating, long depressive episodes. I think someone who does not originally have a severe MI and at least able to live life before start taking these poisons (me) is the one who can go off them. 

[dowdaller]

I know how you feel I am 13 months off Effexor and was sleeping well till about 1 month ago, now as I write this I had 2 and half hours sleep. My taper was also too fast, there is lots of support on this site hang tough, and good luck.

[nystumbleweed]

Hi all and thanks Scallywag for your questions and links to other parts of the forum.   I’m nervous about posting but I want to keep plugged into to this forum.   

 

I updated my signature. Sorry it was out of date.  I had created a signature when I first found this site and then I didn’t  keep the signature updated.  I am, in fact, off valium now.  It started years ago as something I only took for panic attacks and acute anxiety.  I never had a problem with it.  But my usage started creeping up after I stopped prozac.  And the anxiety started ramping up too, instead of going down.  I realize I probably should have tapered off the valium even slower especially given that I haven’t been off the prozac all that long.  Once I realized what was happening I really wanted off the stuff.  I’m afraid everything I do makes things worse.  

 

Yes, I have thought about reinstating the Fluoxetine.  Especially during the worst of the waves.  I get pretty desperate.  Sometimes I feel like I’m losing myself completely and my mind races trying to think of a way out.  

 

But from what I’ve read online, It’s probably too late for me to reinstate.   If only I had found this site earlier in this nightmare.  Or before this nightmare started. Now I’m 5 months out from Prozac and the waves seem to be just as bad, if not worse. How do people get through the worst of the waves?   

Does anyone have experience reinstating after so much time?  

 

I’m still not sleeping well.  I’ve read the “Tips on Sleep” posts.  A lot of those I’m doing and/or trying to follow.  The wakefulness is really dogged.  I don’t know how some people can get by on three hours of sleep.   As I said, my psychiatrist had me try Trazedone for sleep, but now I’m wary of that.  Maybe paranoia is creeping in.   Anyway the trazedone hasn’t worked at the starter dose of 50 mg.  I hate to take more.   I wonder if there’s a lesser of known evils out there for sleep.

[downtongirl]

Hello nystumbleweed!  We have some things in common.  I was on klonopin...a cousin of valium at a low dosage for 19 years was off for 10 months then went back on for about 2 months and then back off in March 2015...so I have been off for 18 months now.  I was also on some type of antidepressant since 1995 and have been off of prozac for 8 weeks.  I too take trazadone for sleep.  I am sorry you are suffering...it truly sucks!  From what you wrote in you above post...I wonder if the valium was still working but when you went off of prozac it caused more anxiety and that made you think the valium wasn't working.  What do you think?  

[nystumbleweed]

Thanks downtongirl.  I read a lot of your personal thread.  You've really been through the ringer.  In answer to your question,  I am pretty sure the problem with the valium was that I habituated to it.  I  only took it as needed and infrequently before I "tapered" off Prozac.  (In fact I didn't taper as it is recommended here. I did the medical establishment taper over a month.)  

 

It wasn't until all after I was off Prozac that I slowly started increasing my valium usage.  And it was working fine. I just started needing more of it to get any effect.    Anyway, I miss the valium and having a quick fix to the anxiety.  I probably went off of that too fast too.  But I expect you will identify with wanting to get off of something once you think it is making things worse.   I just want my brain and body to work again.  I feel like I'm running out of time.  

[nystumbleweed]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about Reinstating.  Today was a pretty bad day.  If only because I was really aware today 

of how much worse I am now than I was a year ago.  And aware of how many things I used to be able to do, that I just can't do now.  And then the suicidal ideation kicked in.  At that point I start thinking , what have I got to lose from reinstating a low dose of prozac?  And so I'm asking for feedback.  

 

Six months ago I was on 60 mg of prozac a day.  Prior to finding this site, I went off of the prozac over the course of a month.  So I have been "dry" for 5 months.   I am thinking I should go back on 5 mg, easily done by halving a 10 mg capsule.  Is this plausible?  

 

The Reinstatement post  says that reinstating can trigger a negative reaction, but it doesn't say what?  What is the worst that could happen?  I'm assuming that at the first sign of even WORSE symptoms I would go off the Prozac immediately.  If that happened would I then need to taper down even if I'd only been on the stuff a week?   

[ChessieCat]

Because you have been off the drug for 5 months you could try as small as 1mg and give it 4-10 days to see if you feel any improvement, keeping note of symptoms improving, worsening, staying the same.  If after this time you are still having unbearable symptoms you could updose to 2mg.  The idea is to find the lowest reinstatement dose to bring withdrawal symptoms to a bearable level, not to eliminate withdrawal symptoms altogether.  Also be aware of Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization, so you don't updose at the first sign of a symptom, only if a bad symptom persists.

 

As stated in the reinstatement topic, if you experience an immediate bad reaction stop or reduce the drug immediately.  This is one reason why trying a small dose is preferable because it will less of an issue stopping if you do have a reaction. 

 

How to get a low dose from:  Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

 

"For very gradual tapering, for example, you can dissolve a 10mg capsule in 10mL of water to make a solution with 1mg Prozac in 1mg of water. To take 1mg Prozac, use an oral syringe to take out 1mL.

Refrigerated, it's supposed to be stable for 14 days.

This can be a very precise way to taper."

[nystumbleweed]

1st day of 1mg/1ml reinstatement of prozac using home prepared liquid solution.  The nice pharmacist at Walmart gave me a 10ml oral syringe.  Thank you Chessiecat.  

[ChessieCat]

You might find this helpful for keeping notes:  http://hulpgids.nl/a...es/pdf/DESS.pdf

[nystumbleweed]

Hi,   I dropped off this forum for a few weeks while waiting to see if my reinstatement of prozac would help.  I have been been trying to track my symptoms but it's difficult.  Since prozac reinstatement the severity of some symptoms is better. My nightmare ruminations are not as strong.  And I have had a few windows.  But also  terrible waves.     I am still mostly slogging through with such despair, confusion, panic, and crippling insomnia.  

And I feel such self loathing for being in this state.  When I was younger I could weather downturns and troughs more easily.  There was more bounce.  Now at 50, I'm afraid .  I haven't been able to work for years.   Struggling (from my point of view) to keep the few friends I have left.  The suicidal ideation is persistent.    And it's only October.  I can't even think about this winter. 

 

So my problem is that Both my therapist and psychologist are advocating for my going back on a different antidepressant at a "clinical" dose.   I left my last appointment with prescriptions for Bupropion and Seroquel for sleep and the request that I think about it.   What happens to my brain if I go on Bupropion?    Or is it the lesser of two evils if I go back to a regular dose of prozac?

The thing is ...Some days I'm on the verge of hospitalization....who knows what kind of drugs that will bring on.    I was thinking of the Todd Haynes movie Safe, about a woman with environmental sensitivities struggling with the disbelief of the medical establishment.  She finally ends up moving to a community of people with similar sensitivities out in the desert.  I wish I had somewhere like that to move to.