Fuerza: has anyone experienced DR/DP caused by Effexor?

[Gussy]

Fair enough

[Rick213]

Fuerza did u have problems getting of valdoxan ?

 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by ChessieCat
removed mod note

[fuerza]

8 hours ago, Rick213 said:

Fuerza did u have problems getting of valdoxan ?

 

 

Hey! I'm not completely off Valdoxan. At 4.5mg currently. I tapered when I was still experiencing Effexor withdrawal. I had no trouble last summer, but this year my one cut was hard. However, this may be because of Valdoxan but because of benzos. Everything seems harder this year and I suspect this has something to do with benzos in my system. 

How are you doing? Seeing a CT in your sig.

[Rick213]

I was on 25 mg I whent half the pill in Jan 2018 I waited 2 months and got off c turkey now 3 months later I start having soared burning eyes and I think I triggered panic and high adrenaline but it's been 3 weeks with high adrenaline so idk I dont think I triggered anything I think I'm getting hit with valdoxan withdraw 3 months later ? Idk the mechanisms of this pill berry well my main symptoms is extreme adrenaline 

[Rick213]

You know of anyone c turkey this med and what are there symptom to me  is just extreme adrenaline 

[Rick213]

Fuerza do u know others symptoms when getting off this drug ? I have extreme adrenaline 

[fuerza]

Hey!

 

I just did some research on agomelatine. It seems that some new information has come up and apparently, agomelatine is not water soluble. https://www.caymanchem.com/pdfs/13203.pdf

I've been tapering with water almost since the beginning. What should I do next? I'm also tapering a benzo and both seem to interfere with one-another. If I start a vodka titration, I'm afraid the concentration of Valdoxan will be higher than it was before. I'm so confused and scared now. How to continue?

[ChessieCat]

I've brought your problem to the attention of the other mods.

[fuerza]

9 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I've brought your problem to the attention of the other mods.

 

Thank you, Chessie!

I guess my main question is if I'm getting irregular doses. If I'm just getting a lower dose, it's not a problem because I've been consistent with my method.

[ChessieCat]

20 minutes ago, fuerza said:

I'm also tapering a benzo and both seem to interfere with one-another.

 

What information did you get?  Please post the interaction that you found and where you got it from.

 

This is what I found, from Drugbank:

 

Diazepam

The risk or severity of adverse effects can be increased when Diazepam is combined with Agomelatine.

[fuerza]

Just now, ChessieCat said:

 

What information did you get?  Please post the interaction that you found and where you got it from.

 

This is what I found, from Drugbank:

 

Diazepam

The risk or severity of adverse effects can be increased when Diazepam is combined with Agomelatine.

 

My evidence is anecdotal as I feel like I'm also in benzo WD when I cut Valdoxan. This is why I decided to get off the diazepam first and then start tapering Valdoxan again.

[ChessieCat]

Please provide your most recent daily symptoms notes.  This information may be able to help the mods to figure things out.  The last one you provided was in your Benzo topic on July 1.

[fuerza]

5 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Please provide your most recent daily symptoms notes.  This information may be able to help the mods to figure things out.  The last one you provided was in your Benzo topic on July 1.

 

Nothing's really changed. Lots of chemical fear and anxiety. Dizziness, pounding heart when standing up, vision problems, vivid dreams and nightmares, headaches. 

[Altostrata]

11 hours ago, fuerza said:

Hey!

 

I just did some research on agomelatine. It seems that some new information has come up and apparently, agomelatine is not water soluble. https://www.caymanchem.com/pdfs/13203.pdf

I've been tapering with water almost since the beginning. What should I do next? I'm also tapering a benzo and both seem to interfere with one-another. If I start a vodka titration, I'm afraid the concentration of Valdoxan will be higher than it was before. I'm so confused and scared now. How to continue?

 

Hello, you can make a suspension with Valdoxan. It doesn't have to be particularly soluble. See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

We don't recommend tapering two drugs at once, this can cause a lot of confusion. Please stop tapering the benzodiazepine while you sort out what's going on.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

What times of day do you take your drugs? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

This is an example of what is being requested:

 

6 a.m. Woke and vomited
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Had diarrhea
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Stomachache
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Headache got worse
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke with headache

Edited September 20, 2018 by ChessieCat

[fuerza]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Hello, you can make a suspension with Valdoxan. It doesn't have to be particularly soluble. See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

We don't recommend tapering two drugs at once, this can cause a lot of confusion. Please stop tapering the benzodiazepine while you sort out what's going on.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

I can keep a diary, but there's usually no rhyme or reason to my symptoms other than *usually* worse in the morning and get better if I distract.

Can you elaborate on the 'doesn't have to be particularly soluble' thing? I'm not trying to be smart, I just genuinely don't understand the intricacies of drug absorption. Doesn't the fact that it's not water soluble mean that I'm getting inconsistent doses?

I'm only tapering the benzo and will continue to do so until I'm done with it. I had no problems with intermittent tapering last year, but that's no longer the case. I also suspect that the benzo might be doing more damage as the WDs are terrible.

[Altostrata]

15 hours ago, fuerza said:

I'm also tapering a benzo and both seem to interfere with one-another.

 

What does this mean? Please stop tapering the benzo. Do not taper two drugs at once. The benzo may keep you sleeping as you go off Valdoxan.

 

1 hour ago, fuerza said:

I also suspect that the benzo might be doing more damage as the WDs are terrible.

 

You are tapering 2 drugs too fast! Please stop tapering the benzo.

[fuerza]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

What does this mean? Please stop tapering the benzo. Do not taper two drugs at once. The benzo may keep you sleeping as you go off Valdoxan.

 

 

You are tapering 2 drugs too fast! Please stop tapering the benzo.

 

I said in my previous post that I'm only tapering the benzo. Yes, I have tapered both in the past, but as of this year, I've decided that I'm going to taper the benzo to nil. Then I'll give my body time to stabilise and taper the Valdoxan.

So to clarify for the last time, I'm not making any cuts in my Valdoxan dose. The problem is that I'm taking 4.5mg and I need to dissolve the pill. I've been dissolving it in water for 2 years now. My main concern is that I've been getting and will be getting inconsistent doses in the future.

[fuerza]

On 9/21/2018 at 5:54 PM, fuerza said:

 

I said in my previous post that I'm only tapering the benzo. Yes, I have tapered both in the past, but as of this year, I've decided that I'm going to taper the benzo to nil. Then I'll give my body time to stabilise and taper the Valdoxan.

So to clarify for the last time, I'm not making any cuts in my Valdoxan dose. The problem is that I'm taking 4.5mg and I need to dissolve the pill. I've been dissolving it in water for 2 years now. My main concern is that I've been getting and will be getting inconsistent doses in the future.

 

To further clarify, I'm not planning to finish the benzo taper this ever or maybe even the next as I'm very symptomatic. Going slow here.

 

Correction:  Not planning to stop this year.

 

Edited September 22, 2018 by ChessieCat
added correction note from followup post

[Altostrata]

What do you mean by "symptomatic"? What do you mean "both seem to interfere with one-another"?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

You may be getting withdrawal symptoms from your benzo taper. We have a saying, "When you're in a hole, stop digging."

 

The directions for making a suspension with Valdoxan are the same as ever. It doesn't have to be soluble to make a suspension.

[fuerza]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What do you mean by "symptomatic"? What do you mean "both seem to interfere with one-another"?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

You may be getting withdrawal symptoms from your benzo taper. We have a saying, "When you're in a hole, stop digging."

 

The directions for making a suspension with Valdoxan are the same as ever. It doesn't have to be soluble to make a suspension.

I mean that my symptoms are still akathisia in various degrees of seriousness, depression, fear, agoraphobia, blurry vision, pounding heart when standing up etc. I take Valium at 1PM and approx 1 AM. I take the Valdoxan 1.15AM. After taking the Valium I don't really see a change in the symptoms. Things pop up at random times. I know this is not what you requested, but I've tried the diary thing and found no correlation at all.

As for the interaction, I was afraid that taking my nightly Valium dose and Valdoxan so close together might interfere with the metabolisation as the same enzymes are in play. 

I'm going as slow as every with my benzo taper. If I just stop for another year, I will never be off it and it seems the WD gets worse as the years go by. I didn't have persistent depression before. It came in bouts and left when the worst on the cut was over.

[Altostrata]

Taking the drugs 15 minutes apart will not prevent their competition for liver enzymes.

 

As you say, you don't notice any change in symptoms after taking the Valium, so what symptoms do you attribute to "both seem to interfere with one-another"?

 

Withdrawal symptoms occur because of a lack of drug in your body, not its presence. You are tapering faster than your nervous system can adapt to the decreased amount of the drug in your body. Continuing to taper the benzo prolongs or exacerbates withdrawal symptoms from it.

 

If you insist on tapering the benzo even though you have withdrawal symptoms, you're creating your own problems.

 

While you may not see any pattern in your daily symptoms, we might be able to.

 

It's up to you whether you want to supply this important information, and if you want to continue tapering the benzo even though we've cautioned you to stop. We may not be able to help you.

[fuerza]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Taking the drugs 15 minutes apart will not prevent their competition for liver enzymes.

 

As you say, you don't notice any change in symptoms after taking the Valium, so what symptoms do you attribute to "both seem to interfere with one-another"?

 

Withdrawal symptoms occur because of a lack of drug in your body, not its presence. You are tapering faster than your nervous system can adapt to the decreased amount of the drug in your body. Continuing to taper the benzo prolongs or exacerbates withdrawal symptoms from it.

 

If you insist on tapering the benzo even though you have withdrawal symptoms, you're creating your own problems.

 

While you may not see any pattern in your daily symptoms, we might be able to.

 

It's up to you whether you want to supply this important information, and if you want to continue tapering the benzo even though we've cautioned you to stop. We may not be able to help you.

 

As I said, I tapered last year and didn't experience black depression. My worry is that the benzos are not affecting me well as they're depressants. I really don't know what to do as my last cut was under 5% and before that I had held for 2 and a half months. I also didn't taper between September 2017 and March 2018. I feel like I'm being blamed for being reckless. I know I stupidly tapered fast off Effexor is 2016, but those times are gone. Since June 2017 I've tapered 36% of the benzo initial dose. Didn't make any cuts that threw be into horrible withdrawal.

 

What's your advice? Stop tapering altogether? 

[ChessieCat]

40 minutes ago, fuerza said:

 

What's your advice? Stop tapering altogether? 

 

Please read through the responses you have already been given in both of your topics.

[fuerza]

I consulted with a few other people who said that the dose I'm getting from the suspension is inconsistent. I'm considering getting a scale again and measuring the Valdoxan doses into capsules.

[Altostrata]

Please do whatever you need to have confidence in your Valdoxan dosing.

 

While you're getting your Valdoxan dosing settled, please stop tapering everything and supply your daily drug and symptom notes. We keep asking for these because they are essential to interpreting your symptom pattern. Please don't make us ask again.

[Altostrata]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:09 AM, fuerza said:

Hey! I'm also tapering agomelatine. I found that after reasonable cuts (10 or max 15%) I sleep less, but I feel more energized in the morning. I'm also a smoker and after cutting down on Valdoxan, I crave more cigarettes (something to do with dopamine?). However, I'm now down to 4 mg per day and the cuts are affecting me a lot more. I don't know if agomelatine interacts with diazepam metabolization somehow, but I'm a lot more anxious after my last cut on the 1st of January.

 

I've also found that short-term use of melatonin helps with the sleeping problems. I never go over 1mg per night and so far it has helped me. 

 

EDIT: typo

 

Hello, fuerza, how are you? What happened in your agomelatine taper?

[fuerza]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Hello, fuerza, how are you? What happened in your agomelatine taper?

 

Hey! Thanks for asking! Not so good, but I'm seeking answers from my GP. I've held since July and seem to be deteriorating more and more. I truly think the WD is not the only problem. Throughout years I've had problems with low B12 and folate + my thyroid hormone (TSH) levels seem to fluctuate a lot. I've read about a few people on BenzoBuddies who have pernicious anaemia and they said the symptoms are extremely similar to benzo WD. 

So on one hand, I'm feeling quite down, but on the other hand I'm dealing with my health again. I had basically given up last year. I was waiting to feel better and just lost hope at some point.

[Carmie]

Hi Fuerza, 

 

How are you doing?💚

[fuerza]

1 hour ago, Carmie said:

Hi Fuerza, 

  

How are you doing?💚

Terribly, I'm afraid. Never stabilised from very small cuts. Also, just saw a cardiologist and she was appalled by my situation. Apparently, there's something wrong with my heart and I'm scheduled for another 3 tests at least.

[Carmie]

Hi Fuerza, 

 

I’m sorry you’re not doing too well. Are you still holding? Have you been keeping a daily symptom log, like Alto asked?

 

Let us know how you at the cardiologist, sending hugs🤗

[fuerza]

Still holding. No daily log as my withdrawal wasn't/isn't just withdrawal. I have residual aka from an initial adverse reaction (severe aka). Currently I see no point in keeping the log as I clearly feel my endocrine system and my heart has been disrupted and I experience what others would call waves, but I still get them when I've been holding for over half a year. I don't visit SA anymore as I find it triggering.

[Altostrata]

@fuerza, how are you doing?