kekokua - would like to get off of the meds after 4 months

[kekokua]

Thank you all for having me.  Here is my story.

 

In May 2016 I lost my job after 20 years and wasnʻt really equipped to apply and interview in the real world today.  Depression built up over time and coupled with a few other things, I began not being able to sleep in late August.  I had experienced 1 other episode of not being able to sleep but a few hours a night for 9 months back in September 2011- June 2012 caused by relationship problems.  At that time, I took citalopram 10 mg up to 20 mg but had started back in to a routine in May and by June my sleep had normalized again.  I easily tapered off of this over a month and a half.  In September 2016 I started taking 10 mg of citalopram for mood and 1,500 mg of gabapentin for sleep and anxiety.  Prior to this my sleep was perfect - I would easily wind down and get tired in between 10:00 and 11:00 PM go to bed and be sleeping withIn 15 minutes usually.  October I stared taking trazodone for sleep with inconsistent results.  Much of this whole time I have been experiencing agitation and feeling as if it would be better off dead but I have a girlfriend whom I adore and many friends whom I do not want to let down.

 

I understand that the antidepressants negatively affect the brain and body.  I want to taper off of these as quickly as possible although I understand the value in the suggested 10% taper per month.  I am 4 months into the citalopram and the gabepentin (which isnʻt an antidepressant but I want off of it all the same). Iʻm about 3 months into the trazodone.  Besides the medications being toxic my worry is what if I cannot get scripts for the medication somewhere down the line?  To taper off of all of these medications will take a few years.  I purchased a Bio Tuner which I read has helped some people with withdrawal symptoms and to help me sleep.  Insufficient sleep is definitely causes a big part of my instability at present.

 

Could anyway offer suggestions as to how to taper off of these medications.

 

Thank you.

Edited December 30, 2016 by scallywag
deleted information duplicating signature

[kekokua]

Too, I realize that I need to deal with the undying trauma that caused the anxiety that causes the sleep problems.  I need a foot hold.

[scallywag]

kekokua -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

I'd like to get clear about when you started and stopped medications.

Citalopram (Celexa):

May 2016: 10 mg, increased to 20 mg
June 2016: stopped from 20 mg

July-August: none
Sept 2016: started 10 mg

Oct 2016: increased to 20 mg

 

... Are you still taking citalopram? If so, how much?

 

Trazodone

Oct. 2016 started taking 200 mg

currently taking (Dec 2016) 175 mg

 

Gabapentin (Neurontin)

Sept 2016 1500 mg

currently taking at least 600 mg/day, 600 every night and 300 as needed for anxiety during the day

 

>> How did you reduce from 1500 mg to 200-500 mg? Did you make the reduction all at once or in steps? 

 
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Edited December 30, 2016 by scallywag
update with correct current dosages

[kekokua]

scallywag,
 
Thank you for taking interest in my situation.
 
I apologize for not be as clear as I might have been.  In 2011-2012 I had my first experience ever with anxiety and insomnia.  I couldnʻt believe the brain and the nervous system would actually not allow a person to sleep, or at least, very little sleep for months on end.  I finally broke down and started taking citalopram 10 mg in mid-April 2012.  I got back into a work routine and the sleep issues seemed to resolve in mid-June.  I tapered easily off of the citalopram reducing starting in July to every other day, every 3rd day etc. and I stopped on August 15, 2012.  I experienced no noticeable withdrawal symptoms.
 
This bout:
 
Early September 2016 - I started taking 10 mg of citalopram in the morning, 600 mg of gabapentin throughout the day in divided doses for anxiety and 900 mg at night for sleep (both off label uses).
 
In mid-October, a psychiatrist prescribed 20 mg of citalopram, 200 mg of trazodone and 600 mg of gabapentin for sleep.
 
Now, at the end of December Iʻm taking with my eye fast on tapering:
 
citalopram - 18 mg for mood
trazodone - 175 mg at night for mood and sleep
gabapentin - 600 mg at night for sleep and as needed for anxiety during the day.

 

 

How did I reduce the neurontin?  Well, painfully.  The psychiatrists seemed pretty relaxed about me discontinuing it.  I experienced the withdrawal symptoms pretty harshly.  I donʻt think I ever went down to 0 but even so...  I am now at the above amount and not quite sure how much of the agitation i feel is from what.  I sleep occasionally but not consistently.  When I sleep I feel pretty good.  When I donʻt sleep, the anxiety snowballs and I am majorly agitated and tense.  

 

I know that I need to get back to work and a routine but this is in my present state.  The emotional/mental problems underlying this whole episode are still there and those need to be dealt with.  How to balance out the emotions to gain some sort of a foothold while tapering from the medication.  

 

Iʻm throwing a Hail Mary up and I purchased an electrical brain stimulating device called the Bio Tuner.  I saw the few posts of people who have used it and had success with it, other people not so much.  My hope is that it will help me to counter the withdrawal symptoms of the medication and to help me sleep as well.  One concern is this machine is suppose to stimulate feel-good neuro-chemicals one of which being serotonin.  I had a bout with serotonin syndrome in 2012 and that wasnʻt fun.  Fresh is using the machine to taper off of pristiq with no problems.

 

I am sorry if this is all convoluted.  Iʻve done my best to be as clear as possible.  Oh, and I created a signature but donʻt know how to make it appear automatically.  Mahalo e scallywag.

Edited December 30, 2016 by scallywag
deleted signature information duplicated in post

[Petunia]

Welcome from me too Kekokua and thank you for clarifying your history. Your signature is showing up now.

 

I can understand you wanting to get off all your drugs fast, I think its natural to want to do that. But in reality, stopping too fast can cause more damage and worse symptoms than staying on longer while tapering at a rate your nervous system can tolerate.

 

All psychiatric drugs are powerful toxins which the brain and nervous system adapt to over time, causing long lasting changes in functioning. Stopping suddenly or too fast can cause neurological chaos and very unpleasant symptoms as your NS struggles to continue functioning in the changed chemical environment.

 

This is why we recommend reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks, this reduces the risk of withdrawal symptoms arising. Please read through this which will explain why:

  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

and Brain Remodelling (Rhi's Description of Brain Healing)

 

Because of your recent large reduction in Gabapentin dose, you might want to wait a while before starting your taper, give your nervous system a chance to settle down. I would wait at least 4 weeks and see how you feel.

 

Here are some more topics relevant to you:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

Tips for tapering off Neurontin (gabapentin)

 

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the drugs.com Drug Interactions Checker at:

 

Drug Interactions Checker

 

You may post the results here in your thread.

 

I think Fresh is having success with tapering not so much because of the bio-tuner, but because she is tapering slowly using the 10% method, giving herself enough time to stabilize between each small reduction. But as you wrote, some people do find it helpful.

 

Please read through the links I have posted and come back here to your thread with any questions, comments and let us know what you decide to do.

 

We will be here to support you, so please use this thread to keep us up to date with how you're doing.

 

Petunia.

[kekokua]

Aloha e Petunia,

 

Thank you for your information and caring.  I appreciate the help (ke kokua) and support (ke kākoʻo).

 

I have read through all of the links.  My head and nervous system are not in top form and so I may not be able to articulate things well but Iʻm sure SA understands.

 

I had run the meds through the drug check before and had known that both trazodone and celexa increase serotonin.  I pointed this out to the psychiatrists I have seen and they all feel that the amounts are so small that it is a non-issue.  I wonder.

 

This is quite daunting.  I understand the value of the 10% per month tapering schedule.  I was hoping that, since Iʻve only been on the meds a few months I might be able to taper more quickly but apparently that is not the case.  I feel that the longer Iʻm on the meds the more my brain will "remold" with them.  But, maybe it already has and so decreasing more than 10% a month will be the hell which I have already experienced.

 

The latest psychiatrist Iʻve been seeing is new and is an understudy of another psychiatrist.  She reports to him.  They recommend staying the course on the trazodone (actually 250 mg per night for sleep and depression).  They also wanted to start me on paxil, which seems to be a difficult one to get off of.  Iʻm staying with the celexa for now.  

 

I need sleep.  I donʻt know how effective the trazadone is at getting me sleep.  My sleep hygiene is perfect.  Prior to September 2016 my sleep was perfect.  I exercised regularly and have eaten healthily for most of my adult life.  Do you know of any links that might address my sleep situation?

 

The quality of my life has changed drastically.  I now have to time everything to try to sleep.  I canʻt even sleep in the same bed with my sweetheart for fear of me not being able to sleep.  that really kills me.  I have to be home and in bed around 9:30 PM.  I have to make sure that I donʻt eat passed 5:00 PM.  That means no sharing meals together.  All this is beyond the scope of managing medication but just have to express.

 

Iʻm considering now reducing all meds at 10% per month as Rhi does.

 

Thank you again.

[kekokua]

Interactions between your selected drugs

Major
trazodone citalopram
Applies to: trazodone, Celexa (citalopram)

Using citalopram together with traZODone can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should contact your doctor immediately if you experience these symptoms during treatment. In addition, combining these medications can increase the risk of an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious and potentially life-threatening, although it is a relatively rare side effect. You may be more susceptible if you have a heart condition called congenital long QT syndrome, other cardiac diseases, conduction abnormalities, or electrolyte disturbances (for example, magnesium or potassium loss due to severe or prolonged diarrhea or vomiting). Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. You should seek immediate medical attention if you develop sudden dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, shortness of breath, or heart palpitations during treatment with these medications, whether together or alone. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.


 

Moderate
trazodone gabapentin
Applies to: trazodone, gabapentin

Using traZODone together with gabapentin may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.


Moderate
gabapentin citalopram
Applies to: gabapentin, Celexa (citalopram)
Using gabapentin together with citalopram may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Edited December 30, 2016 by scallywag
increased font size and changed colors of interaction levels

[kekokua]

Sorry.

[kekokua]

Fresh:

Since I started CES therapy I have had no withdrawal symptoms , despite decreasing pristiq by 25% in two drops.

[kekokua]

Another night withou sleep. The 200 mg of trazodone not working. I'm getting kind of desperate. Brain is fried. Srlf medicating is not good I know but will do anything to sleep. Can anyone offer insight? I'm lost.

[scallywag]

We suggest looking at non-drug methods for sleep

 

Important topics about symptoms including sleep problems

Tips to help sleep

Melatonin can be helpful for delayed sleep-onset insomnia

[kekokua]

Thank you scallywag.  

 

I am going nuts without sleep.  In desperation, I went up to 300 mg of trazodone last night without much success.  Took some arginine today and will take some ornithine tonight.

[nz11]

Hi kekokua

Its heartbreaking to read that prior to may 16 you had not been exposed to these kinds of drugs and now you are in this escalating situation of being polydrugged and they even want to add paxil as well. I feel angry on your behalf.

 

im sorry you are struggling with sleep. It will settle down if you can just refrain from panicking and taking a 'double dose' in the hopes of finding relief.

 

I agree with Petu's comment about the reason for Fresh's success.

I wasn't aware Fresh was tapering at 25 % are you sure about this.

 

Sorry you have been caught up in this modern day tragedy.

[kekokua]

Hi kekokua

Its heartbreaking to read that prior to may 16 you had not been exposed to these kinds of drugs and now you are in this escalating situation of being polydrugged and they even want to add paxil as well. I feel angry on your behalf.

 

im sorry you are struggling with sleep. It will settle down if you can just refrain from panicking and taking a 'double dose' in the hopes of finding relief.

 

I agree with Petu's comment about the reason for Fresh's success.

I wasn't aware Fresh was tapering at 25 % are you sure about this.

 

Sorry you have been caught up in this modern day tragedy.

 

Thank you NZ11.  I just have to figure out from here.  May the Universe send its blessings  to us all.

[kekokua]

 

Hi kekokua

Its heartbreaking to read that prior to may 16 you had not been exposed to these kinds of drugs and now you are in this escalating situation of being polydrugged and they even want to add paxil as well. I feel angry on your behalf.

 

im sorry you are struggling with sleep. It will settle down if you can just refrain from panicking and taking a 'double dose' in the hopes of finding relief.

 

I agree with Petu's comment about the reason for Fresh's success.

I wasn't aware Fresh was tapering at 25 % are you sure about this.

 

Sorry you have been caught up in this modern day tragedy.

 

Thank you NZ11.  I just have to figure out from here.  May the Universe send its blessings  to us all.

 

 

Actually NZ11, it has only been since September that I have been taking the medication.