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Tchi's Mother: 93 yrs old getting to taper Citalopram after 15 yrs


Tchi

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Hi

My brother insist our mother stops Citalopram 10mg.

The first tapering today is 50%.  Is this reasonable ?

What may we be aware of ?

 Recurrent depression  -900mg Lithane since 1991 - tried to stop in 1995, went down to 600mg .

 20mg Paxil since 1998 - tried to taper in 2011 - doctor increased dosage to 30mg .
LITHIUM : September 1st 2015 : down to 450mg lithium ( 300 in the morning , 150 at night )- 30% decrease
 2015/09/15 : 75mg increase , for a total of 525 mg - 12.5% decrease

 2015/11/24  : lithium down to 475 mg - minus 9%         2016/01/08  : 450mg

 2016/02/05 :  420mg -           Kidney failure         2016/03/09 : 375mg              Total taper : 38% in 5 months

2017/01/01 :   300mg per day for the past six months   50% in 15 months - Below therapeutic level.

  2017/03/27 : down to 120mg .  April 30th 2017 : ZERO :)

 PAXIL :  2015/10/14 : 10% taper 30mg Paxil = 26.5 ml          2015/11 : 24.3mg     2015/12/16 :  21.6mg

                2016/01/23 :  20mg        Total taper : 30%  in 4 months   -  2016/11/01 : Still at 20 mg after failing at 15 mg

 

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Tchi's Mother: 93 yrs old getting to taper Citalopram after 15 yrs
  • Moderator Emeritus

SA's recommended tapering method is a reduction of 10% of the previous dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks.  Therefore, a 50% reduction is much too large.

 

My own story may help you to understand how these drugs impact our brain.  I attempted to reduce my Pristiq by 1/2 from 100mg down to 50mg and experienced really bad cog fog for 3 weeks, which is when I discovered SA.  I got to the stage where I was unable to type.  I am a professional typist so not being able to type was a really massive warning that something was not right.  I updosed and within 4 hours my brain fog started clearing and I was able to type again.  I have since been tapering by no more than 10% and am now down to 20mg.

 

Please read:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Brain Remodelling


Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added link to tips

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Way too fast!!!   How long was she on citalapram?  Unless it was just a few weeks, that is way, way too fast, and she could suffer all sorts of withdrawal symptoms.  There are so many possible symptoms that it's hard to predict exactly what, but likely mood swings, feeling like she has the flu, and much more...  And, at her age, it will be hard for her to stabilize if she is tapered too quickly. 
Please try to get your brother to look through the info. here and convince him that a slower taper is needed to eliminate suffering and is much safer. 

200 Zoloft; 10 mg Zyprexa; 4 mg valium as of May 2021;  Valium taper: July 16: 3.5 valium; July 30: 3 mg (paused valium taper); Aug. 23: 2.5 mg
Zyprexa: July 26: 8.75 mg; Aug. 9: 7.5 mg; Aug. 30: 7.1 mg

-------
Dec 1, 2016. 10 mg zyprexa for 1.5 month. Started taper mid-Jan. 2017. Cut 1.25 mg every 2 weeks; smaller cuts 2.5 mg down. Stopped at .6 mg. May 7, 2017: zyprexa free. 
Zoloft: Dec1, 2016, 200 mg. Started taper: Jun12, 2017: 197.5 mg; Jun19,:195 mg; July 2:185mg; July 9,:180 mg; July16,: 175; July 23: 170; July 30: 165; Aug6: 160; Aug13: 155; Aug. 20: 150; Aug.27: 146 mg; Sept3: 145 mg; Sept10:143 mg; Sept17:140 mg....Nov5: 122 mg...Dec3:112.5 mg; Jan14, 2018: 95 mg...Jan28: 90 mg; Feb21:80 mg; Mar11: 75 mg; May2:70 mg; May15: 68 mg; May28: 65 mg; Jun9: 62 mg;Jun25: 60 mg:July22: 55 mg; Aug25: 45 mg. Aug28: 50 mg...Oct 28: 38 mg; Dec.4: 30 mg; Jan8,2019: 25mg; Feb6: 23.5 mg; Apr1:17.5mg; May1:1 mg; May 5: 18;  May 18:15mg; June 16:12.5mg; Sept 10:11 mg; Sept.16:10 mg; Oct. 1: 9mg; Nov. 27: 8mg; Dec.5: 7mg; Jan.1,2020, 6 mg; Feb1: 5 mg; May 1: 2.5 mg; Jn 1: 2 mg; Jy 1: 1.5 mg

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  • Moderator Emeritus

The title of this topic:  93 yrs old getting to taper Citalopram after 15 yrs

 

Dosage not provided.

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you all , I only saw your answers now.

My mother has taken Citalopram 10mg for 14 years , following the sudden death of my older brother ( she was unable to end her grief after two years ).

 

She attempted to quit about 8 years ago on a seven month period , the last taper did not go well so she went back on.

 

Youngest brother is adamantly against AD , has convinced her to taper but way too fast ! 50% , when 10% as you all recommend it ( that's what I did ).

 

It's day 11 , she's crying a lot , irritable and physically bushed.  Symptoms started on day 3.

Brother brought her on day 5 some bio St John's Wort , and St John's Wort capsules yesterday. I believe she should have started that PRIOR to the taper.

She's very old and frail , has always been somewhat anxious. I'm concerned . Is the taper worth it at this age , could it accelerate a death laced with discomfort ?

What  do you think about CBD ( cannabidiol )to ease her stress ? We're seing the doctor today and will ask for a prescription.

 

Wating for your thoughts

 

 Recurrent depression  -900mg Lithane since 1991 - tried to stop in 1995, went down to 600mg .

 20mg Paxil since 1998 - tried to taper in 2011 - doctor increased dosage to 30mg .
LITHIUM : September 1st 2015 : down to 450mg lithium ( 300 in the morning , 150 at night )- 30% decrease
 2015/09/15 : 75mg increase , for a total of 525 mg - 12.5% decrease

 2015/11/24  : lithium down to 475 mg - minus 9%         2016/01/08  : 450mg

 2016/02/05 :  420mg -           Kidney failure         2016/03/09 : 375mg              Total taper : 38% in 5 months

2017/01/01 :   300mg per day for the past six months   50% in 15 months - Below therapeutic level.

  2017/03/27 : down to 120mg .  April 30th 2017 : ZERO :)

 PAXIL :  2015/10/14 : 10% taper 30mg Paxil = 26.5 ml          2015/11 : 24.3mg     2015/12/16 :  21.6mg

                2016/01/23 :  20mg        Total taper : 30%  in 4 months   -  2016/11/01 : Still at 20 mg after failing at 15 mg

 

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Tchi is your drug sig yours ? or your mothers? I cant see citalopram in there.

Im a bit confused as to what the current dose is. I know initially you did a 50% cut to 5mg? then i assume you went back up to 9mg?

Lets just say you went back up and did the 10% so its now 9mg.

 

My heart goes out to you and your mum.

After so many years on this drug or drugs? it may well be a long road to get off.

Your mother is manifesting classic wdl symptoms and if it were me i would go back to the 10mg and stabilize and rethink this. 10% may be far too fast for your mum. Many on this site are tapering at a rate well below this. Even if she were to taper at 5% you could be looking at 3.5 years of tapering to just get to 1mg and thats if all goes well. I never thought i would say this to anyone as there is no one more delighted to see people get off these poisons than me but the fact is the road to freedom after many years exposure to these drugs may be 'full of roadblocks and hardships' it can be a very long taking many years. The wdl symptoms can be very crippling debilitating longlasting unimaginable and inescapable. I'm not saying dont taper but im saying you might like to rethink the options especially at this time in life. 

If i were you id stay clear of adding the SJW at any stage.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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Just my opinion but unless that drug is causing life threatening problems , then at her age I wouldn't try to taper.  It can be a gruelling process, even on  the youngest and strongest people . Good luck though I hope she's okay 

Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th . PPI Dexlant  30 mg taper has begun. Cutting 20% currently.  using zantac as needed.  Benzo is currently 0.10mg 

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50 minutes ago, Pil54 said:

What the **** are you wanting to taper her at that age.

 

Withdrawaing those drugs is pure hell. Let her end her life peacefully with that **** drug, its not worth it stopping it at that age its ridiculous 

 I have to agree, Im only 33 and the withdrawals are causing me a lot of health problems, at 93 the withdrawals might be too much for her body to cope with

2001 - 2005 prozac,  2001 - 2017 various benzos, mainly diazapem and zanex,  2002 - 2017 olanzapine or seroquel,  2002 -2017 propanolol, 2005 - 2009 venlafaxine 75mg , forced to go cold turkey off venlafaxine as moved Thailand, doctor cut me off and couldn't get it there, severely ill for over 2 years, countered withdrawals with more zanex and seroquel

2014 returned to UK, mainly to get treatment getting off meds

doctor advised to taper seroquel over a few weeks, severely ill and bed bed-bound so reinstated it, 2015 tapered seroquel myself slower over a few months, was off it 2 months and was too ill so went on olanzapine, became zombie and too tired to get out of bed, went back on seroquel, very depressed so went back on venlafaxine, didnt work  so doctor swapped to zoloft became very agitated so back on venlafaxine

June 2016 - felt strong enough to begin tapering again, started what I thought was a slow taper of all meds,  2016 July Not had any alcoholic drink since this date, 

2016 October completely off diazepem, 2017 Feb completely off seroquel, 2017 March completely off proponanlol, 2017 April (day before birthday) completely off venlafaxine, OFF ALL MEDS 11/4/2017, was fine for nearly 3 months and then delayed withdrawal hit,

supplements taking: turmeric capsules, NiaCel (nicotinamide riboside), Vit B12 sublingual, Vit B3, Vit B6, Vit B1, apple cider vinegar, manuka umf 10 honey, camu camu powder,  melatonin when needed, epsom salt baths, juices, smoothies, 

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15175-dj2010-off-all-meds-for-3-months-and-been-fine-now-bad-insomnia/

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Tchi does not want to taper the drug this way, it is her BROTHER who is insisting on it. Taking the drug away like this is cruel, but she is not the one who is doing this so please lets all cut her some slack here, she wants what's best for mom. 

 

Tchi, hopefully her doctor will be on your side and not recommend such a taper at her age

. I hope he has some knowledge and does not recommend the usual every other day taper, which is as bad as cutting 50%! 

Do you have a social worker who you can speak to? In the UK there are organisations that can intervene when elders are being treated badly by family. I am so glad that she has you in her corner and I hope you can manage to somehow stop your brother making this awful mistake. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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WONDERFUL AND REASSURING ANSWERS , all of them !  A warm thanks for your insights and good common sense. 

To make things clear : First , the signature is mine , not my mother .    Second , I made a mistake about her initial dosage : it was 20mn , NOT 10mg citalopram .

Yesterday , I found out the following at the doctor's appointment :

- It was the geriatric dpt who initiated the tapering last May during an evaluation with Mom while my brother was present. They routinely try to eliminate all unnecessary drugs in elderly patients IF THEY CAN TOLERATE IT.

Unknown to me , Mom went through three tapering levels since May 29th , while simultaneously tapering from a sleeping pill ( Zopiclone ) :

 1) 29/05 : 20mg to 15mg ( 25% )   . Her medication is delivered directly in weekly pill boxes and I did not see this  , otherwise I would’ve stepped in .    

 2) 11/07 : 15mg to 10 mg ( 33% )       

 3)  12/08 : last taper 10mg to 5mg ( 50% )  , which is when I verified dosage with drugstore and got alarmed .

This explains her symptoms of the last three months and I agree with dj2010 and Pil54 ( remember it was NOT my decision , and I was alerted at the third taper ) : Mom went without being warned through a slow hell which coincided the end of my own lithium tapering , with brother putting pressure on her to change her will , the sudden death of her beloved pet and the arrival of a new caregiver she doesn’t like.

She experienced dizziness , some insomnia , fatigue , lots of tears + irritability , and anxiety as she did not know what was happening to her .

All the while , I was telling this to my brother who was fully aware and  didn’t say a word about the tapering . Allow me to be p***d off about this ! This is close to abuse and your opinions are welcome.

nz11, can you elaborate about not taking St John's Wort ‘’ If i were you id stay clear of adding the SJW at any stage ‘’ ? Brother is the one who added it to the taper last week.

 

Mom is therefore back to 10mg for three weeks , then to the original 20mg.

Doctor wants to have a chat with brother so we’re all on the same page. It won’t go well , and he will try to shoot the messenger .

This discussion is important because it adds to research and live facts quoted in this forum. It will also educate doctors about tapering , especially with the elderly .

Mother could’ve died an uncomfortable death . Her age , for Pete’s sake !!

 Recurrent depression  -900mg Lithane since 1991 - tried to stop in 1995, went down to 600mg .

 20mg Paxil since 1998 - tried to taper in 2011 - doctor increased dosage to 30mg .
LITHIUM : September 1st 2015 : down to 450mg lithium ( 300 in the morning , 150 at night )- 30% decrease
 2015/09/15 : 75mg increase , for a total of 525 mg - 12.5% decrease

 2015/11/24  : lithium down to 475 mg - minus 9%         2016/01/08  : 450mg

 2016/02/05 :  420mg -           Kidney failure         2016/03/09 : 375mg              Total taper : 38% in 5 months

2017/01/01 :   300mg per day for the past six months   50% in 15 months - Below therapeutic level.

  2017/03/27 : down to 120mg .  April 30th 2017 : ZERO :)

 PAXIL :  2015/10/14 : 10% taper 30mg Paxil = 26.5 ml          2015/11 : 24.3mg     2015/12/16 :  21.6mg

                2016/01/23 :  20mg        Total taper : 30%  in 4 months   -  2016/11/01 : Still at 20 mg after failing at 15 mg

 

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mammaP , I will contact the social worker . Brother is playing a dangerous role IMAO.

 Recurrent depression  -900mg Lithane since 1991 - tried to stop in 1995, went down to 600mg .

 20mg Paxil since 1998 - tried to taper in 2011 - doctor increased dosage to 30mg .
LITHIUM : September 1st 2015 : down to 450mg lithium ( 300 in the morning , 150 at night )- 30% decrease
 2015/09/15 : 75mg increase , for a total of 525 mg - 12.5% decrease

 2015/11/24  : lithium down to 475 mg - minus 9%         2016/01/08  : 450mg

 2016/02/05 :  420mg -           Kidney failure         2016/03/09 : 375mg              Total taper : 38% in 5 months

2017/01/01 :   300mg per day for the past six months   50% in 15 months - Below therapeutic level.

  2017/03/27 : down to 120mg .  April 30th 2017 : ZERO :)

 PAXIL :  2015/10/14 : 10% taper 30mg Paxil = 26.5 ml          2015/11 : 24.3mg     2015/12/16 :  21.6mg

                2016/01/23 :  20mg        Total taper : 30%  in 4 months   -  2016/11/01 : Still at 20 mg after failing at 15 mg

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thank goodness your Mom has you to advocate for her.  I agree that tapering this drug at your mother's age would not be a very good idea.  Your poor Mom, I hope things settle down for her and that the social worker will be able to provide the necessary support.  Your brother has no idea and hope he will open his eyes and see what a well-intention but bad idea this would be, particularly because of her age.  Best of luck and bless your heart for looking out for your mom!

Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism:  Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg (15 years Pristiq/Effexor)

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg; November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 
May 20, 2017 - reduced to 40.25 (holding for additional month due to late onset of withdrawal symptoms after this taper)
July 17, 2017 - reduced to 38.24
August 15, 2017 - reduced to 37.5 (50% of my original dose)

October 15, 2017 - reduced to 35.6

November 12, 2017 - reduced to 33.8
December 15, 2017 - up-dose to 35.6
December 28, 2017 - up-dose to 37.5

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  • Moderator Emeritus

SJW is not good because it is a weak version of the drug she is already taking, too much along with citalopram can be dangerous, it should NEVER be taken with other drugs. This is from the interactions checker at drugs.com  If she settles down on 10mg she could stay at that dose, she could become sensitive to it and not tolerate the full dose so it is good the doctor is allowing 3 weeks between increases.  

 

Interactions between your selected drugs

Major

citalopram  st. john's wort

Applies to: citalopram, st. john's wort

Using citalopram together with St. John's wort can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Other drugs and diseases that your selected drugs interact with

This the link

https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=679-0,2106-0

 

Just because it is a plant does not mean it is safe!  Is mum taking any other drugs or supplements? 

As this topic is about mum could you add her drugs and history to the signature? mPut a dividing line so it is not confused with yours. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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 Yes not your fault,  you are doing what you can . Your brother probably knows how bad the drugs are so he wants her off.  But maybe he doesn't know how bad the taper/ WD can be even with the smallest of cuts . Your mom is lucky to have an informed person like you ok her side. 

Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th . PPI Dexlant  30 mg taper has begun. Cutting 20% currently.  using zantac as needed.  Benzo is currently 0.10mg 

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