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Gastrointestinal issues: small intestinal overgrowth syndromes SIBO, SIFO


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21 hours ago, Ariel said:

This is a comment written by @tsranga and originally posted in @FeralCatman's intro topic. 

It's so informative that I am re-posting it here as I think it could be of interest to a wider audience.

Thank you, tsranga. 

 

 

Thanks for posting Ariel. 

 

I have many articles to share on this as I tried to make sense of gas movement in my body, and it's effect on various organs. 

 

Here is one that I found very useful - 

 

https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2013/may/wind

 

My conclusion was a malfunction of the autonomic nervous system in withdrawal causes most of our symptoms.

 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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@tsrangaI printed out that article. If you have any others that would be useful to my situation feel free to message me with them. I tend to agree with your above statement and do think that the majority of my issue is ANS related because of the way the symptoms fluctuate while on a consistent diet and schedule but want to leave no stone un-turned in dealing with these gut issues. My nutritionist is really good but I never go off the opinion of just one person any more. Been there and done that and am paying for it. If I do test positive for SIBO it is worth trying to treat it as it is potentially part of the problem. I am starting to lean towards a non-antibiotic approach but am still reading.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice daily

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8 hours ago, FeralCatman said:

@tsrangaI printed out that article. If you have any others that would be useful to my situation feel free to message me with them. I tend to agree with your above statement and do think that the majority of my issue is ANS related because of the way the symptoms fluctuate while on a consistent diet and schedule but want to leave no stone un-turned in dealing with these gut issues. My nutritionist is really good but I never go off the opinion of just one person any more. Been there and done that and am paying for it. If I do test positive for SIBO it is worth trying to treat it as it is potentially part of the problem. I am starting to lean towards a non-antibiotic approach but am still reading.

 

This is one of the best articles that I have read in the gut brain axis.

 

https://franklincardiovascular.com/category/autonomic-dysfunction/page/5/

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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@tsrangaexcellent article thank you very much. I am going to pass it on to my primary care doctor and my nutritionist. The way I read it is that each system can cause disruptions in the other so until all the systems balance out it's going to be very difficult to get any stability in the gut. The ANS just takes time. Once that balances out it will be much easier to deal with the other issues. That said a diet that is healthy for the gut and the symptoms you are experiencing is also essential while waiting for your nervous system to balance out to keep problems from getting worse and it should also help to accelerate nervous system recovery. Seems like it may still be worth treating or at least attempting to treat the SIBO if that is confirmed to be a problem. However after reading that depending on how long your nervous system takes to straighten out you may end up having to treat it more than once. What a mess. I will have to do some more reading and give this a lot more thought to try and understand the problem a little better. Thanks again for the article 😉✌️😸😸😸😸

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice daily

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26 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

Seems like it may still be worth treating or at least attempting to treat the SIBO if that is confirmed to be a problem

 

There is a process in the gut called migrating motor complex (MMC) that is a clean up routine that runs when there is no digestion, to clean out all the bacteria and waste. 

 

This is the process that malfunctions and causes sibo.  So irrespective of whether you treat sibo or not, if you don't fix your MMC, you will have recurring sibo. Periodic fasting is a great way to trigger the MMC.

 

 

https://journeythroughsibo.com/supporting-the-vagus-nerve-migrating-motor-complex/.

 

 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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@tsrangaAnother excellent article. It pretty much completes the picture. This whole thing is a vicious circle so and until your nervous system is working right it's going to be a chronic problem. The good news is is there are multiple things you can do to help it along most of which I'm doing already. It's funny you mentioned fasting. For many many years I only ate twice a day. Now that I'm eating three times a day I feel worse. I'm going to try going back to eating twice a day with no snacks and see if I feel better. I'm also going to do a changeup with Vagus nerve exercises and see if it helps.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice daily

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On 8/1/2022 at 12:04 PM, FeralCatman said:

@tsrangaAnother excellent article. It pretty much completes the picture. This whole thing is a vicious circle so and until your nervous system is working right it's going to be a chronic problem. The good news is is there are multiple things you can do to help it along most of which I'm doing already. It's funny you mentioned fasting. For many many years I only ate twice a day. Now that I'm eating three times a day I feel worse. I'm going to try going back to eating twice a day with no snacks and see if I feel better. I'm also going to do a changeup with Vagus nerve exercises and see if it helps.

 

One thing to watch our for - I find that I have a circadian pattern to how the gut functions..  And at times, it feels like air/gas gets stuck in the gut, and this can cause a whole lot of downstream and upstream symptoms including leg parasthesia and rhinitis along with temperature dysregulation.  When it moves, especially when hungry, I have visceral sensitivity. 

 

When in this state, drinking or eating is my last resort to try and get it to move. It almost feels like gastroparesis (afternoons are the worst), and the recommendation is to eat more frequent smaller meals. I find that 4 meals a day spaced 4 hours apart (breakfast, lunch, snack, dinner) works best for me.

 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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@tsrangaThank you. I will keep that in mind. I am also still having the symptoms based on body position but not every day any more. Most days I seem to be fine. This morning I had bad anxiety and had to get up and walk around and it is passing after about an hour. Sometimes lying down makes things worse especially laying on my side. Weird.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice daily

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On 8/2/2022 at 4:36 AM, tsranga said:

 

One thing to watch our for - I find that I have a circadian pattern to how the gut functions..  And at times, it feels like air/gas gets stuck in the gut, and this can cause a whole lot of downstream and upstream symptoms including leg parasthesia and rhinitis along with temperature dysregulation.  When it moves, especially when hungry, I have visceral sensitivity. 

 

When in this state, drinking or eating is my last resort to try and get it to move. It almost feels like gastroparesis (afternoons are the worst), and the recommendation is to eat more frequent smaller meals. I find that 4 meals a day spaced 4 hours apart (breakfast, lunch, snack, dinner) works best for me.

 


hey could you explain your symptoms more to me? All of a sudden I have constapation, heart paps & heartburn no matter what I eat. I’m assuming this is withdrawal vagus nerve related & there’s nothing i can do about it. Like my nervous system not letting me digest my food

April 2022- Only 1 celxa pill 10mg

had an adverse reaction & never took anymore again 

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On 8/2/2022 at 4:44 AM, FeralCatman said:

@tsrangaThank you. I will keep that in mind. I am also still having the symptoms based on body position but not every day any more. Most days I seem to be fine. This morning I had bad anxiety and had to get up and walk around and it is passing after about an hour. Sometimes lying down makes things worse especially laying on my side. Weird.


hey could you explain your symptoms more to me? All of a sudden I have constapation, heart paps & heartburn no matter what I eat. I’m assuming this is withdrawal vagus nerve related & there’s nothing i can do about it. Like my nervous system not letting me digest my food

April 2022- Only 1 celxa pill 10mg

had an adverse reaction & never took anymore again 

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10 hours ago, peaceandlove said:


hey could you explain your symptoms more to me? All of a sudden I have constapation, heart paps & heartburn no matter what I eat. I’m assuming this is withdrawal vagus nerve related & there’s nothing i can do about it. Like my nervous system not letting me digest my food

 

Well I don't have constipation or heart palpitations, and my GI symptoms are usually a combination of visceral sensitivity, bloat, heartburn, multiple BMs in a flare, stuck air/gas relieved by burping and farting..  I also have temperature regulation issues, leg paresthesia etc, all of which seem to be connected to how well the gut is doing.. 

 

My autonomic specialist agrees with me that it is some sort of vagus nerve disorder.   There's really no medication to fix this, but a good fresh and unprocessed diet and hydration, along with physical activity and belly breathing seems to help keep the gut moving and avoiding putting more strain on it.

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

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7 minutes ago, tsranga said:

 

Well I don't have constipation or heart palpitations, and my GI symptoms are usually a combination of visceral sensitivity, bloat, heartburn, multiple BMs in a flare, stuck air/gas relieved by burping and farting..  I also have temperature regulation issues, leg paresthesia etc, all of which seem to be connected to how well the gut is doing.. 

 

My autonomic specialist agrees with me that it is some sort of vagus nerve disorder.   There's really no medication to fix this, but a good fresh and unprocessed diet and hydration, along with physical activity and belly breathing seems to help keep the gut moving and avoiding putting more strain on it.


It really does have to be vagus nerve / brain related. I saw a guy complaining about GI & acid reflex issues on YouTube he said it felt like his vagus nerve was broken. Now he is completely healed & all went away naturally so it has to be. How long have you had these specific GI issues & how far are you in withdrawal? 
 

im 3 months in & these just started about 3 weeks ago

April 2022- Only 1 celxa pill 10mg

had an adverse reaction & never took anymore again 

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  • 1 month later...

@peaceandlove@tsranga This recent episode of GI illness I experienced seems like it was actually a bout of episodic gastroparesis which can be due to vagus nerve damage and damage to the enteric nervous system. I've read stories of other people that have episodes of this due to stress. I was stable for awhile with diet but when I cut back the Allegra the changes in histamine signaling must have irritated things and now I am having symptoms again. It's just a guess but it fits. It sucks and is very uncomfortable but it should clear up in time as it is already slowly improving again. Good diet is still important but as you said tsranga the nerves healing is what will really drive recovery.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastroparesis

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enteric_nervous_system

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice daily

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@peaceandlove@tsrangaI just had an appointment with my PCP. He agreed that what I had was a flare of gasteroparesis due to the drug / drug WD nervous system damage as was what happened in February/March. I am recovering quite a bit quicker this time and have been able to expand my diet out much quicker this time so he feels that this is a sign of recovery and healing. I agree.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice daily

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