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RusTW

RusTW: Seroquel CT then reinstated

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mirage

Hi friend. I did get the past 2 posts. Glad to see you are doing better. This entire journey is really difficult and we have to remember it is the withdrawal and not he real "us" that is causing these symptoms. They are very scary but we have to step back and look at the true picture and to tell ourselves we are okay despite feeling just awful. 

 

Hugs to you friend

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RusTW
1 minute ago, mirage said:

Hi friend. I did get the past 2 posts. Glad to see you are doing better. This entire journey is really difficult and we have to remember it is the withdrawal and not he real "us" that is causing these symptoms. They are very scary but we have to step back and look at the true picture and to tell ourselves we are okay despite feeling just awful. 

 

Hugs to you friend

I'm looking forward to that window .I know you are too.

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Altostrata
2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Your lack of cooperation and demanding tone are inappropriate. Please stop posting every time you want to vent. You're making extra work for us.

 

Let me explain something: I have a queue of unread posts. The last couple of days, it's been ALL ABOUT YOU. This is annoying.

 

You have a history of multiple cold turkeys PLUS you are overusing a steroid. You are making your own problems. Stop posting every time you have a twinge. This takes staff time away from people we might be able to help. Show some concern for other people.

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RusTW
3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Let me explain something: I have a queue of unread posts. The last couple of days, it's been ALL ABOUT YOU. This is annoying.

 

You have a history of multiple cold turkeys PLUS you are overusing a steroid. You are making your own problems. Stop posting every time you have a twinge. This takes staff time away from people we might be able to help. Show some concern for other people.

Understood

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Rabe

Hi Rus,  wanted you to know I have been thinking about you and am hoping today is a better day!!!  You had asked me about my premarin and Im sorry I did not respond...missed it.  I do take it and have for long time.  I did taper half and then had a surgery or something and stopped...and then my world crashed and my focus is on tapering other meds first.  But it was my plan to taper that too...just now it has to wait its turn. ;)  Take care!!!

 

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Rosetta

Hi Rus, Thanks for your note on my thread.  

 

I know you are really confused right now.  It's very hard to make sense of any of this when one's brain is so scrambled by off-the-charts anxiety.  I'm so sorry to see that your doctor has been giving you testosterone with ADs and benzos and anti-psychotics.  I would not have known better either if I were you.  I used to trust doctors.  Now, I can't, and that's of concern, too.  

 

It took me a very, very long time to figure out what was happening to me.  I read this site for several months before I joined, but I couldn't really understand it.  After I joined, I documented a lot of my evolving understanding on my thread as it happened.  I did that so that I could go back and read it when a wave came, but maybe other people could read it and it might help them understand protracted WD, too.  Maybe not.  

 

There's a lot of great information on this site, but when one's system is so dysfunctional, the brain can't process it.  You may not get much out of my thread at this point.  Continuous high anxiety prevents us from absorbing, retaining and comprehending information.  It affects not only memory, but the formation of memories.  However, it's surprising how much does get stored in there and how many times I read something and understood it.  Sometimes, in between bouts of anxiety, something would click and a light would suddenly go on for me.

 

The most important point is the one that no one wants to be true: time will heal us.  Keeping everything consistent as much as possible with the drugs until the nervous system stabilizes is all we can really do.  

 

Your testosterone injections are probably shaking up your system, but you can't just stop them.  They must be tapered.  I hope your doctor knows how to do that.  If not, you have to find one who does.  Make sure you double check anything your doctor says.  I'm pretty sure there is a website about testosterone injections somewhere.  

 

If you can keep everything else consistent, you will get better, and you will stabilize.  Please know that is true.  It takes time and that's really hard to accept when we are suffering from anxiety because natural anxiety is meant to make us get up and do something about the "danger."  To realize and accept that there is nothing one can do except just keep the intake of the drugs consistent -- same dose -- same time -- every day --.is extremely difficult.  Our minds and bodies are not designed to work that way in the midst of anxiety.  It makes no sense in the natural state to keep doing what we do every day if the anxiety continues.  Yet, in this situation it is all we can do.  A little magnesium, maybe some fish oil, and gentle exercise -- that's it.  Everything else is too risky for most of us.

 

I'm glad you have the option of stopping the testosterone over time.  Maybe that will make a huge difference.  I hope it's very quick to bring relief from your anxiety.  Sometimes I wish I had a way to stop my cycle!!  But that might cause other problems.  

 

Thinking of you,

Rosetta

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RusTW
35 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Hi Rus, Thanks for your note on my thread.  

 

I know you are really confused right now.  It's very hard to make sense of any of this when one's brain is so scrambled by off-the-charts anxiety.  I'm so sorry to see that your doctor has been giving you testosterone with ADs and benzos and anti-psychotics.  I would not have known better either if I were you.  I used to trust doctors.  Now, I can't, and that's of concern, too.  

 

It took me a very, very long time to figure out what was happening to me.  I read this site for several months before I joined, but I couldn't really understand it.  After I joined, I documented a lot of my evolving understanding on my thread as it happened.  I did that so that I could go back and read it when a wave came, but maybe other people could read it and it might help them understand protracted WD, too.  Maybe not.  

 

There's a lot of great information on this site, but when one's system is so dysfunctional, the brain can't process it.  You may not get much out of my thread at this point.  Continuous high anxiety prevents us from absorbing, retaining and comprehending information.  It affects not only memory, but the formation of memories.  However, it's surprising how much does get stored in there and how many times I read something and understood it.  Sometimes, in between bouts of anxiety, something would click and a light would suddenly go on for me.

 

The most important point is the one that no one wants to be true: time will heal us.  Keeping everything consistent as much as possible with the drugs until the nervous system stabilizes is all we can really do.  

 

Your testosterone injections are probably shaking up your system, but you can't just stop them.  They must be tapered.  I hope your doctor knows how to do that.  If not, you have to find one who does.  Make sure you double check anything your doctor says.  I'm pretty sure there is a website about testosterone injections somewhere.  

 

If you can keep everything else consistent, you will get better, and you will stabilize.  Please know that is true.  It takes time and that's really hard to accept when we are suffering from anxiety because natural anxiety is meant to make us get up and do something about the "danger."  To realize and accept that there is nothing one can do except just keep the intake of the drugs consistent -- same dose -- same time -- every day --.is extremely difficult.  Our minds and bodies are not designed to work that way in the midst of anxiety.  It makes no sense in the natural state to keep doing what we do every day if the anxiety continues.  Yet, in this situation it is all we can do.  A little magnesium, maybe some fish oil, and gentle exercise -- that's it.  Everything else is too risky for most of us.

 

I'm glad you have the option of stopping the testosterone over time.  Maybe that will make a huge difference.  I hope it's very quick to bring relief from your anxiety.  Sometimes I wish I had a way to stop my cycle!!  But that might cause other problems.  

 

Thinking of you,

Rosetta

HI Rosetta -  I'm concerned about the testosterone injections myself I've been on that dose and frequency for the past 20-plus years and never had any adverse reactions. I have a condition called hypogonadism diagnosis age 23 and that means that you do not produce testosterone anymore so if I taper off them I will be left at zero testosterone means that you have anxiety depression and you go into mental problems too in my urologist and general practitioner check my testosterone periodically to make sure I'm within range and I always am at that dose and frequency.

 I've discovered something very disturbing about Seroquel. I find out if you build a tolerance to it that you actually become insomnia instead of sleeping and over the past maybe week my insomnia has been developing and every time I take my Seroquel it amps me up now it doesn't knock me out.

so I've been holding on that 50 mg for a while now and if I've developed a tolerance that means my body and mind is not accepting me even taking the drug. When I take it now it has a different effect. So my fear is I'm taking something I shouldn't be taking because it's causing side effects and withdraw

 I've skipped my testosterone shot and I'm going to taper it down and see if that helps. When I first started getting with drawers I was still taking the shots and I was getting good days and good windows.

my GP told me to stay on the shots and if I that if I taper and stop my body don't produce it and I'll still have a crash

my gut feeling is that I've developed a tolerance to Seroquel and it's having an adverse reaction when I take it now

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RusTW

 now my now my GP put me on gabapentin 200 mg at night to counteract the insomnia from the Seroquel and I think it's making me worse.

 

 I always knew there was a withdrawal from from benzos but I never knew there was one from antidepressants in antipsychotics that was my bad I did CT twice

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RusTW

 I'm being told by the doctors to beat fast taper the Seroquel it's causing adverse reactions and I don't know if I should do that

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Rosetta

Oh my.   

 

I'm not sure what to do if one has that diagnosis.  That may be a very different matter than if you were taking it for "low testosterone." You should probably see a neurologist or an endocrine specialist or both about tapering the testosterone before you do it.  Are you seeing a general practitioner for the shots?

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RusTW
5 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Oh my.   

 

I'm not sure what to do if one has that diagnosis.  That may be a very different matter than if you were taking it for "low testosterone." You should probably see a neurologist or an endocrine specialist or both about tapering the testosterone before you do it.  Are you seeing a general practitioner for the shots?

 I see a urologist I see a urologist for the shots and then I'm tested also by my GP because they know I'm taking the testosterone also so they've always been concerned and they test me too. If I taper um it's still going to affect me because I don't produce it so if I go down to no shots or taper to zero then I'm still at zero anyways

 

 my concern my concern is the gjam I'm in now with the Seroquel it's not working how it should and I've read on the internet on drugs.com people commenting that their bodies built to tolerance in the actually developed insomnia worse anxiety and all kinds of stuff that happened to them after they take it

 now I'm trying to figure out how I should taper off now I'm trying to figure out how I should taper off of it and how fast she prescribed me Gabapentin the other day the first night I took it I Slept  last night I took a lower dosage and didn't sleep at all and I was amped Up All Night

 

I'm worried that holding on that 50 mg dose of Seroquel cause me to develop a tolerance to it and it's having adverse effects now

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Rosetta

I think I would say no to the gabapentin myself.  That's a very problematic drug.  Have you looked it up here? 

 

Use google and type survivingantidepressants gabapentin.  You will see most of the threads about it.  

 

My understanding is that adding more drugs is usually a bad idea.  Of course, insomnia can't be ignored, but it's very risky to add more drugs to sensitized immune system.  I can't agree with a cold turkey of any of these drugs except life threatening circumstances.  I hope your doctor knows how to handle this.  

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RusTW

 I even feel more lost now because I can't ask for any advice because for certain reasons

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RusTW
3 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

I think I would say no to the gabapentin myself.  That's a very problematic drug.  Have you looked it up here? 

 

Use google and type survivingantidepressants gabapentin.  You will see most of the threads about it.  

 

My understanding is that adding more drugs is usually a bad idea.  Of course, insomnia can't be ignored, but it's very risky to add more drugs to sensitized immune system.  I can't agree with a cold turkey of any of these drugs except life threatening circumstances.  I hope your doctor knows how to handle this.  

 if the Seroquel is having an adverse reaction and causing me to have insomnia then I'm really screwed. That's where I don't know what to do now I'm really lost with this when I don't sleep my I am so bad right now today I even consider going to the mental hospital and I know if I do that they're just going to drug me up so I'm trying to tough it out

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RusTW

 all of my all of my symptoms have gotten worse since I started with the insomnia and I do notice when I take the Seroquel I feel way different now so I'm wondering if at holding it certain dosages if one develops a tolerance and then it's actually causing adverse reaction or withdraw anyways

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RusTW
8 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

I think I would say no to the gabapentin myself.  That's a very problematic drug.  Have you looked it up here? 

 

Use google and type survivingantidepressants gabapentin.  You will see most of the threads about it.  

 

My understanding is that adding more drugs is usually a bad idea.  Of course, insomnia can't be ignored, but it's very risky to add more drugs to sensitized immune system.  I can't agree with a cold turkey of any of these drugs except life threatening circumstances.  I hope your doctor knows how to handle this.  

 I I don't know what to do about the effects of the Seroquel now I did research about it and if you develop a tolerance you're really screwed

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Rosetta

It's my opinion that you cannot let a GP treat your condition.  This is far too complicated.  Did the GP prescribe gabapentin, too?  You need a neurologist.  

 

Have tried this:. https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

 

You need to put all your drugs in this checker to see if there are any problems.  Some drugs are processed by the same liver enzymes, and they should not be prescribed together.  See if Seroquel interacts with gabapentin or Zoloft right away.  

 

Did you ever tell Alto that you have hypogonadism? Or is that post just now the first time you told the Mods?

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Rosetta

The solution to tolerance is never a fast taper.  Maybe if it's paradoxical you might fast taper, but you need someone other than a GP to determine that.  He's not qualified.  If he's wrong it's disasterous.  Please see a neurologist!  

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RusTW

 mygp did prescribe the Gabapentin I didn't have a choice because they referred me to a psych doctor and it's going to take my GP did prescribe the Gabapentin I didn't have a choice because they referred me to a psych doctor and it's going to take awhile to get in there and I don't know how to get by like this without sleeping and feeling like that in the middle of the night. No I didn't mention the hypogonadism because I didn't really think that we were putting that on our signatures that was my bad too but it's still a condition I have that I can't take it back or fix same with the CT that I did.

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RusTW
1 minute ago, Rosetta said:

The solution to tolerance is never a fast taper.  Maybe if it's paradoxical you might fast taper, but you need someone other than a GP to determine that.  He's not qualified.  If he's wrong it's disasterous.  Please see a neurologist!to see a neurologist it's probably going to take a month to two months to even get the appointment right now I'm falling to pieces as we speak

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RusTW
Just now, RusTW said:
2 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

The solution to tolerance is never a fast taper.  Maybe if it's paradoxical you might fast taper, but you need someone other than a GP to determine that.  He's not qualified.  If he's wrong it's disasterous.  Please see a neurologist!to see a neurologist it's probably going to take a month to two months to even get the appointment right now I'm falling to pieces as we speak

 it will it will take at least two months to get in to see a neurologist and right now I'm falling to pieces as we speak

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RusTW
2 minutes ago, RusTW said:

 it will it will take at least two months to get in to see a neurologist

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RusTW
Just now, RusTW said:
5 minutes ago, RusTW said:

 it will it will take at least two months to get in to see a neurologist

 I'm not supposed to be posting for advice because of the testosterone and my cold turkeys.. I feel sad about that because this was only place I had to get good advice from. I do blame myself because I was ignorant about drugs

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Rosetta

Ok, but you understand the basic premise of SA is that CT and fast tapers hurt people who are all ready in trouble.  I'm not sure how you would determine whether taking Seroquel is having a paradoxical effect, but do check about the interactions and consider keeping your dose of Seroquel consistent if gabapentin and Seroquel are ok together /Seroquel and Zoloft are ok together and/ gabapentin and Zoloft are ok together.

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Rosetta

I understand that, but I gave you this "advice"/ suggestion to be careful about your doctors without you asking.  There's no reason to make matters worse by fast tapering Seroquel if you don't have to.  I'm not qualified to tell you what to do, but I am qualified to alert you to the danger of letting a GP treat dysautonomia.  That's the fancy term for protracted withdrawal.  Some neurologists are aware that AD withdrawal causes dysautonomia.  Many are aware that benzos withdrawal causes it.  That has been well known for decades!  If you tell a neurologist that you CTd Ativan in December and took all these other drugs and now have insomnia, I would hope he would agree that you have dysautonomia.  What he would decide to do about it, I have no idea, but I do know a GP is not qualified to diagnose a paradoxical reaction.  Unfortunately, most psychiatrists are not either.

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RusTW
4 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Ok, but you understand the basic premise of SA is that CT and fast tapers hurt people who are all ready in trouble.  I'm not sure how you would determine whether taking Seroquel is having a paradoxical effect, but do check about the interactions and consider keeping your dose of Seroquel consistent if gabapentin and Seroquel are ok together /Seroquel and Zoloft are ok together and/ gabapentin and Zoloft are ok together.

Moderate interactions- for them Omg when I read other people's posts about tolerance to seroquel my heart dropped.I was having this before the gabapentin.When i take my seroquel at night in a few hours or none I'm insomnia and bad anxiety racing thoughts SI DP .this hasn't happened since I cold turkey.other people who become tolerant have the same experience.in worried that has happened tolerance.if so its registering to my brain no Seroquel which means withdrawal as I'm taking it plus the side effects.

 

I had interdose Withdrawals when I was taking Ativan so every day I was withdrawing.That's why I CT

In praying its a wave.

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Rosetta

All right, let's leave it at that so that Alto doesn't have to read more posts we made.  I felt that telling you this in the open where everyone could see was best.  Please arrange your appointment with the neurologist immediately.  The sooner the better.  I hope you feel better tonight. -Rosetta

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RusTW
7 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

All right, let's leave it at that so that Alto doesn't have to read more posts we made.  I felt that telling you this in the open where everyone could see was best.  Please arrange your appointment with the neurologist immediately.  The sooner the better.  I hope you feel better tonight. -Rosetta

Thanks Rosetta Glad your there for us.Your advice is and has been very thoughtful and I will go to a neurologist- appreciate ya very much Rus

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Altostrata

RusTW, my understanding is you're getting a testosterone shot every 4 DAYS, is that correct?

 

If so, that is not medical treatment, it is steroid abuse. We cannot deal with any of your symptom reports as your symptoms may be caused by steroid abuse. Your posts here are not productive for you or for the staff.

 

https://www.drugs.com/pro/testosterone.html
 

Quote

Adverse Reactions

The following adverse reactions in the male have occurred with some androgens:

Endocrine and urogenital: Gynecomastia and excessive frequency and duration of penile erections. Oligospermia may occur at high dosages.

 

Skin and appendages: Hirsutism, male pattern of baldness, seborrhea, and acne.

 

Cardiovascular disorders: myocardial infarction, stroke.

 

Fluid and electrolyte disturbances: Retention of sodium, chloride, water, potassium, calcium, and inorganic phosphates.

 

Gastrointestinal: Nausea, cholestatic jaundice, alterations in liver function tests, rarely hepatocellular neoplasms and peliosis hepatis (see WARNINGS).

 

Hematologic: Suppression of clotting factors II, V, VII, and X, bleeding in patients on concomitant anticoagulant therapy, and polycythemia.

 

Nervous system: Increased or decreased libido, headache, anxiety, depression, and generalized paresthesia.

 

Allergic: Hypersensitivity, including skin manifestations and anaphylactoid reactions.

 

Vascular disorders: Venous thromboembolism.

 

Miscellaneous: Inflammation and pain at the site of intramuscular injection.

 

 

If anyone wants to carry on a conversation with you, please take it to personal messages.

Edited by Altostrata
added adverse effects

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JanCarol

Hey RusTW - 

 

Alto has spoken, and I like to let her have the last word - 

 

but there was one niggling - and major - issue that you don't seem to understand, so I will address that briefly.

 

Tachyphylaxis, or "poop out" is when a drug stops working or doing what it used to.  You claim that your seroquel has "pooped out."

 

This is not an adverse reaction, it is tachyphylaxis, or tolerance.

 

When a drug has "pooped out," you have 2 choices:

 

1.  Increase the drug, and know that it will poop out again, and you will need to increase it again, and it will poop out again.  None of these drugs are designed (or tested) for long-term use!  This is a squirrel-wheel solution, and usually the one that doctors offer.  (Taking the Gabapentin is like adding pepper to a dish that has too much salt in it....and there are many problems with that drug, and it must be tapered.  Adding drugs is never a solution to "too much drugs.")

 

2.  Taper off the drug and tolerate the symptoms until the drug is gone.  That is what we recommend at SA.

 

Unfortunately, you are in a situation with your testosterone, and you won't know what is really happening until you get proper medical attention for that.  Rosetta's advice to see a different doctor is wise.  I hope you can find a path between your condition and an appropriate dose arrangement.

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Altostrata

RusTW, how are you doing?

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RusTW

Hi Alto 

Doing much better.Tapered the testosterone. Tried out lamictal micro dose1.25 mg.worked at first then paradoxical for a month.

At 37.5 seroquel holding 2 1/2 months.

At 50mg zoloft still.gonna taper this in a week or 2.i want to taper zoloft next because its activating. 

Having weird symptoms during waves. Mental and body akithisia like symptoms. Twitching in legs and moderate nausea.

Getting windows every 3 days that last a couple days.more frequently. Waves are intense but drop off unexpectedly. 

Almost 

100%  during windows. 

Russ

 

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RusTW

I am also micro dosing cannabis indica strains with good results only at bedtime for sleep.

Using nueroplastisy exercises also helping.

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RusTW

Alto I'm getting the twitching in the legs off and on mostly during waves.

Is this the seroquel. Should I taper this first.

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Altostrata

What is your daily drug schedule? Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern? 

 

Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

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ChessieCat
17 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

Example:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

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