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jozeff: Trying to come off of citalopram - a little help would be great

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jozeff

Wow h2h those were some wise words.

 

I'm very happy with you reply. It made me feel just that bit happier. It's hard to look forward when you feel all this. I'll try to keep it as stable as possible.

 

Thanks and have a nice day!!

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jozeff

Dear fellow ad-ers,

 

posted this in the relationship section but wanted to let you know also.....

 

My wife is 4 weeks pregnant. It will be our second child.

 

We didn't plan this so we're pleasantly surprised!

 

She is taking sertraline 50 mg since nine months and we're a little worried now. We did not plan this at all otherwise she would have tapered before.

 

She cannot quit CT for obvious reasons. She is mentally very stable right now and she's a bit scared to start tapering now. 

If she continues to take 50 mg sertraline daily for the next 8 months what are the risks for the baby?

 

And, does it affect the babies brain? When the baby is born will it be like cold turkey for him/her?. I mean, the sertraline will be in the bloodstream during pregnancy. If my wife continues to take meds after birth will the medication be in the breast milk? If so, perhaps the baby can get used to the lowering dose by drinking less and less breast milk.

 

We would like to here from moms or dads who have some thought on this subject.

 

Your help will be greatly appreciated!

 

Thank you and have a great day

 

Jozeff and wife😉

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Martina23

Jozeff, maybe check internet if Sertraline can be used during pregnancy. If it is safe. I honestly dont know. I guess, I would be afraid to take anything during pregnancy.

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jozeff

Thanks!

 

Well my wife is still pregnant 😉😉.

And I'm still on citalopram 18 mg of course.

 

We have been Talking a lot About This and we think It's A Beautiful Thing. We are looking to the Future now. We'll be a happy family of 4! In the beginning of May 2019 we are going to have our second child!

 

I had a wonderful weekend with my wife and my boy. Nice weather and good atmosphere. 

 

Today at work was a little bit difficult but didn't pay attention to the sad feelings I get around noon. They disappear after 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon most of the time. When I get home at 6 I start to get nervous again and this subsides in the evening. Strange but true.

 

Today I had a very nasty experience. I was laying on the couch when a very hot nervous feeling entered my neck arms and head. Like my nerves were on fire and I wanted to flight and run away. My head felt very warm and my shoulder and neck were tingling hot. My chest was filled with nervousness suddenly. After stretching my neck backwards and laying flat the feeling decreased somewhat but I still have this strange sensation in my upper body. Feels like heat and nerve action. It's making me very very nervous and anxious.

 

Any idea what this may be? 

 

I had a bit of a stressful day at work but not to bad. Could neck/nerve pain cause these depressing nasty feelings? Is this the citalopram talking or something else?

 

I stopped taking b12 last week because of reading a lot of negative things about it being to activating. I started eating a spoon of coconut oil daily. No further changes.

 

Thanks in advance for your thoughts guys and girls.

 

Hope you all had a wonderful day!

 

Joop

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jozeff

Hi everybody,

 

Does anyone know what the strange sensation might be I mentioned above? I have the aching shoulders and neck like my nerves are on fire? It gives me anxiety and makes me feel very unpleasant. Do the nerves in the neck play in important role in WD?

 

Thanks a lot!

 

Jozeff

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ChessieCat
On 9/4/2018 at 3:33 AM, jozeff said:

Today I had a very nasty experience. I was laying on the couch when a very hot nervous feeling entered my neck arms and head. Like my nerves were on fire and I wanted to flight and run away. My head felt very warm and my shoulder and neck were tingling hot. My chest was filled with nervousness suddenly. After stretching my neck backwards and laying flat the feeling decreased somewhat but I still have this strange sensation in my upper body. Feels like heat and nerve action. It's making me very very nervous and anxious.

 

Any idea what this may be? 

 

Possibly an anxiety attack.  It's important to learn and use Non-drug techniques to get through the discomfort.  Understanding what is happening can help.  When we feel unusual things in our body and don't know what is happening, then we can become scared which is sometimes call second fear, which can then progress to a full blown anxiety attack and/or hysteria.  The important thing is to learn to recognise the lead up symptoms and then use non drug ways to calm yourself. 

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 
Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 
 

It may also be a cortisol spike, especially if you had dozed off:  Or possibly: waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes

 

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jozeff

Well thank you for your information!

 

The thing is that I've had my shares of panick attacks in the recent past. They always come with very high and pounding heart beat and sweating and wanting to run away. This time I was laying on the sofa and had only this strange sensation in my neck and shoulder. Tingling, muscle aching. Like buzzing that area. I've had severe shoulder and trapezoid (is that correct) pain in the last week. Like knots in upper part of my shoulders. Very sensitive and radiation towards my neck and arms. 

Something neurological. Could this have something to do with withdrawal? 

 

I'm on 18 mg citalopram for a month now. I started in April when I was at 25 mg went down to 16.5 in 85 days but upped to 18 mg a month ago. I was expecting to be Pretty Stable by now.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and help!!

 

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

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jozeff

Hello everybody!

 

I hope you all have a good day.

 

I'm having this problem lately. I am tapering citalopram and I'm stuck at 18 mg. Have been tapering since April and started a 25mg and came down to 16 in 85 days. (0.1 mg/day).

 

That was a bit too fast so a month ago I updosed  to 18 mg. The first few Days I Feel great. After that I had a mix of all sorts emotions.

 

My problem this week is that I have very sensitive and sour muscles in my shoulder and neck. Not just fatigued muscles like I used to know but more like a nerve pain. I have Some knots in my muscles. The buzzing feeling from my trapezoid enters my neck and head. This causes severe fatigue and sadness because I have it all day. Warmth feels good dat Without it I have a aching muscles al day.

 

I have a little boy and I work full time so I need my energy. This muscle problem is slowly killing me. 

 

Is there anyone who has experience with citalopram withdrawal and aching muscles? Do you have some advice for me. Am memberber has sent Me Some very useful links, that's great.

 

I would like to hear from your personal experience so that I know it can be withdrawal. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Thanks and Have a nice Sunday you all!!

 

Happy healing 😜😙

 

Jozeff

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Happy2Heal
4 hours ago, jozeff said:

This time I was laying on the sofa and had only this strange sensation in my neck and shoulder. Tingling, muscle aching. Like buzzing that area. I've had severe shoulder and trapezoid (is that correct) pain in the last week. Like knots in upper part of my shoulders. Very sensitive and radiation towards my neck and arms. 

Something neurological. Could this have something to do with withdrawal? 

 

 

just to reassure you, this is something I had in early WD

I also still get a tingling sensation on one thigh sometimes, and neck and shoulder tightness and pain is very common in WD/recovery

 

I know you want to feel better quickly, but sometimes it doesn't help to have any set expectations.  Because this process can be quite unpredictable.

 

the most you can do is find ways to deal with the symptoms.

 

it's hard to wrap our minds around how many symptoms we can have, and how long they can last, but  it helps a lot to accept that this may take a bit longer than you'd hoped.

 

otherwise you end up stressed about the process, and that just adds to your misery.

 

you're going to get better in time. ;)

 

 

I imagine you have a lot of planning to do with the new baby on the way. That must be so exciting. :)

 

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jozeff

Hi h2h and chessiecat,

 

Thanks for your information, really helpful!

 

Acceptance is one thing but some things might be worth improving.

 

  I seem to have these window wave patterns daily. Last Thursday was very good for example. Today however I'm a complete mess but it's changing every 15 minutes. Sometimes I want to cry and curl up in bed thinking my life will end soon and this back pain I'd literally killing me and will never disappear. Half an hour later I'm pretty relaxed talking to my wife and I feel a "wave" of relaxation coming over me. 

 

Thanks for helping me out, appreciate it a lot!

 

 

Have a nice day!!

Jozeff

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ChessieCat

And here's another one:

 

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

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jozeff

Thanks chessiecat!

 

I Had A Very busy week so not Enough time to write Something Down.

I Dictate  My text in Android so there are capitals all over the place...... Don't know why....

 

So this week was very busy. I started having bad days in the beginning but things turned out to be pretty ok. Wednesday and yesterday were pretty good. Tuesday I had some serious derealisation which was very frightening. I have no idea why but I survived and had a good evening afterwards. 

 

Strange how these feelings can pop up and leave. Yesterday I had a lot of neck and back pain and that costs a lot of energy.

 

In the morning things are quite ok but around lunch or after that I start having these heart palpitations or a fast heartbeat and start to feel nauseous. This makes me a bit depressed and very worried. I think something is wrong with my heart...,. But later in the afternoon things are getting stable again. 

 

 

after dinner alsjeblieft My Family Play with my son and Watch a movie and things are Pretty darn good! 

 

A few Times Da Think I'm gonna die but obviously I don't. It's so strange that at night I feel very calm and relaxed. I love to read talk to with my family and listen to People. Just very normal and relaxing. 

 

Then the next day it all happens again. Worried sad happy aching nauseous funny calm........all feelings in a few hours.

 

Sometimes I am extremely tired Just awful. Then suddenly goes away and I'm feeling ok again.

 

I have been on 18 MG citalopram since August 11th and I'm thinking about starting my taper again.

 

But gridley told me not to so I think I'll stick with the dose for a while. He said something about six months but that sounds very very long to me. Well I am not stable yet because I have all these strange feelings sometimes so I just have to wait I guess. 

 

I'm working on my diet and taking magnesium a fish oil and minerals. I'm careful with my vitamin B. I make sure I have enough vegetables and fruit.

 

I do drink 1 l of Diet Coke per day! Would that be really bad for me? It just tastes so good but I'm afraid it may cause some extra issues like nervousness or my pH getting much too low?

 

Any thoughts on that?

 

 

Have a very nice day you all and happy healing for everyone.

 

Cheers. 

 

Jozeff

 

 

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jozeff

The last days I'm very confused. I have this terrible muscles cramp in my neck and back. Because of this I get really tired and have low mood. Also I have the feeling that I have fever a few times a day. Lot of mood swings.....no hour feels the same. 

 

Could my small updose 5 weeks ago still cause these phenomena. Or is this caused by the taper before that? (Gridley maybe any idea?).

 

Does anyone have any experience with these fatigueing muscle cramps and nerve pain due to citalopram (WD).

 

 

Thanks for your thoughts!!

 

Jozeff

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jonnypeters1234567

I have all those symptons last 3 months. Awful fatigue for 2 hours in morning then goes.

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Songbird
On 9/15/2018 at 1:11 AM, jozeff said:

In the morning things are quite ok but around lunch or after that I start having these heart palpitations or a fast heartbeat and start to feel nauseous. This makes me a bit depressed and very worried. I think something is wrong with my heart...,. But later in the afternoon things are getting stable again. 

 

I do drink 1 l of Diet Coke per day! Would that be really bad for me? It just tastes so good but I'm afraid it may cause some extra issues like nervousness or my pH getting much too low?

 

 

I'm also tapering citalopram and have had palpitations and fatigue as symptoms.  What magnesium supplement are you taking?  If you haven't already, cutting out caffeine (tea, coffee, chocolate, coke, energy drinks) might help as caffeine can trigger palpitations.

 

I would definitely cut out the diet coke and switch to water.  If you don't like the taste of plain water you could add some lemon or lime juice.

 

For muscle cramps, you could try magnesium cream.

 

 

 

 

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jozeff

Thanks songbird!

 

I have magnesium citrate and magnesium chloride. I am a chemist so I have access to a lot of chemicals and minerals. Not entirely legal but the amount I take is nothing compared to the kilograms we use in daily routine.

 

Well the magnesium, I don't know if it helps but I just take it. The muscles in my neck are more like knots so magnesium isn't going to solve that. Heat and rest are essential for my back and neck. 

 

The rest of my body just feels blah..not exactly muscle ache but a tired and restless feeling. No matter how much I sleep. The palpitations are pretty low but I mean more like my heart is beating really hard. I feel a hard beating iny chest around noon.

 

I do drink 1 liter or sometimes more diet Coke every day. (4 to 6 glass) I have been reading about aspartame and negative effect on nervous system. 

 

Do you have negative experience with aspartame or soft drinks on general??

 

 

Thanks a lot!!

 

Jozeff

 

 

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Gridley

If you will Google "Surviving Antidepressants aspartame" you will find an informative thread, "Aspartame, Depression and SSRI's."  

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jozeff

Hi you all,

 

A small update.

 

Had a great day in an amusement park Monday, little worried 

Yesterday was ok, lots of back pain How ever.

 

Today Was Evil. I Have This very Strange Feeling from My Shoulders coming into my neck and back of my head. It feels like I had 20 cups of coffee and want to crawl out of my skin. Just completely nervous feeling. Feeling hopeless because of it. Very tight shoulders and back muscles.

 

I asked you for some advice...... Could this phenomenon be caused by my DAILY intake of the following supplements/foods.

 

10 mg citalopram in the morning

8 mg citalopram in the evening

 

600 mg magnesium elemental

600 mg potassium elemental

60 mg niacinamide (b3)

1.5 mg lithium elemental

50 or 100 mg folic acid

150 mg iodine in kelp tablet

1000-3000 mg high grade fish oil

125 g cottage cheese

25 grams oat meal

Sometimes a selenium/zinc supplement

300-700 ml of coffee

400-1000 ml diet Coke.

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!

 

Yes I know I drink too much diet coke but I used to be an alcoholic 5 years ago and diet coke is my weak spot😙😉😉

 

Jozeff

Edited by jozeff

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Happy2Heal

I don't know what all those supplements are for but I'd strongly recommend cutting out all caffeine (slowly I guess? you will go thru caffeine withdrawal but it does not last very long, 24 hrs I think??) 

 

you can do what you want, but caffeine is a stimulant - a drug, and it's just not going to help you much if you want to feel better.

sadly during this process, we need to make some hard choices. I had to get used to going to sleep early and getting up early, after a lifetime of being a night owl and hating early mornings. I still don't care for early mornings but I'm learning to get used to them.

I had to give up the tea that I drank all day long in the winter because the caffeine in it caused anxiety attacks.

 

you make a choice- how much do you really want that coffee or coke? is it worth the adverse effects?

it's pretty much the whole issue that's led most of us to get off these drugs- are the adverse effects worth whatever supposed benefits we thought we were getting from them?

 

everyone has to decide for themselves. hey maybe going off caffeine wont make a big difference to you, in which case, keep on drinking it. But it might be worth at least giving it a try to see how you feel.

 


I used to drink brewed coffee before going thru WD/recovery but during acute withdrawal I could not tolerate ANY caffeine, not even the tiny bit in decaf TEA

I am still pretty sensitive to it. I now drink a coffee substitute called cafix, no caffeine in it at all and I"m learning to like the taste. 

 

rather than get upset about your physical symptoms (they are most certainly WD symptoms, which will vary as time passes, so you kinda need to get used to this and not freak out each time something comes along, OK? I KNOW it's hard, I've been thru it, many of us replying to you have been thru it, so we KNOW that this is hard but try to stay calm ok?)

 

I am sure others will have other opinions but me personally, I'd get rid of all the supplements with the possible exception of a high quality omega 3 supplement (I believe one made from algae is a lot less problematic than fish oil but reasonable ppl wil disagree) and maybe the magnesium, depending on your diet (If you eat beans and greens on a daily basis, chances are you don't need magnesium, I don't know)

 

you can always get magnesium from epsom salt soaks.

I don't know if you need to taper off supplements, and I don't know if maybe this is bad advice- so wait to hear the input from others.

I just know that I found out that most of the pills that I was trying while going thru the worst of WD did NOT help at all and often made things worse.

it's different for everyone though.

 

neck pain and shoulder tightness is a very common symptom for WD from citalopram, it will get better in time.

maybe try soaking in a hot tub or sauna and doing some yoga stretches?

 

don't worry it is not permanent, it feels awful now but it is going to go away and you'll be so relieved and happy when it does.

 

 

glad you had a good time at the amusement park!! HEY! did you go on any rides that could have wrenched your neck???

sometimes there's a perfectly logical, none WD reason for these things.

 

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Gridley

jozeff,

 

H2H makes a lot of sense about the caffeine and the diet sodas.  I know it ill be hard to give them up, your pleasures.  I would suggest you cut down on one, little by little, maybe for a week.  Then the other.  They are unfortunately not good for you in withdrawal.

 

The fish oil dosage seems  a bit high to me.  1000mg is a moderate dosage for someone in WD.  Wait to cut this unlil you've weaned off the the soda and  caffeine.

Edited by Gridley

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jozeff

Wow guys, just woke up in the Netherlands and read your messages. Thanks a lot for helping me. Appreciate it a lot!

 

Yes trying to come off of caffeine will be hard because it makes me feel so good sometimes.

 

I'm a bit worried about my diet coke habits also. The aspartame might be pretty damaging to my body. I have been drinking this stuff for years. I mean 1 liter is pretty much and it has a pH value of 2.5 which is pretty acidic for the body. That may cause weakness and tiredness on its own.

 

No h2h, I did not hurt my neck in the park😉. I was pretty nauseaus after a ride however in a rollercoaster and 10 minutes after. Before citaloptam(WD) I didn't have that.

 

Well I'll try to cut some supplements. I'm looking for the holy Grail in relief......I guess I'll have to give it up.

 

You know, if you search YouTube there are so called doctors who advise 5000 mg fish oil, 1000 mg magnesium, and a lot more in very high dosages because they

1. Sell it (happens a lot....)

2. Know someone who does

3. Have a personal experience that coincidentally helped them.

 

I'll have to give up the coke first I guess.....it might make me feel worse in the beginning. That happened to me when I gave up alcohol that's for sure.

 

 

Happy healing!!

Btw...today we have our first echo of our second child!!

 

Jozeff

 

 

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ChessieCat
7 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

I now drink a coffee substitute called cafix, no caffeine in it at all and I"m learning to like the taste. 

 

I drink a coffee substitute, which I quite enjoy, and also decaffeinated instant coffee.  I switch between the two different things depending on how I feel.  If you can only get instant coffee with caffeine you could always do a gradual changeover by mixing the coffee with coffee substitute.

 

5 hours ago, Gridley said:

The fish oil dosage seems  a bit high to me.  1000mg is a moderate dosage for someone in WD.

 

I take 1000mg x 2 a day.  Omega-3 Fish Oil 

23 minutes ago, jozeff said:

The aspartame might be pretty damaging to my body.

 

From:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474447/

Since phenylalanine can be neurotoxic and can affect the synthesis of inhibitory monoamine neurotransmitters, the phenylalanine in aspartame could ...

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Happy2Heal
5 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I drink a coffee substitute, which I quite enjoy, and also decaffeinated instant coffee.  I switch between the two different things depending on how I feel.  If you can only get instant coffee with caffeine you could always do a gradual changeover by mixing the coffee with coffee substitute.

thanks ChessieCat, I've made the decision not to put any drugs or drug like substances into my body, no stimulants, no depressants, etc.

I like the Cafix ok, but it doesn't have the nice aroma that coffee does. I've considered getting something coffee scented, however, since it seems to be the aroma that I prefer- I have tried the odd once or so of coffee thru out this process and found it very bitter, so my tastes have probably changed (well, no, I"m sure they have lol)
 

 

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Happy2Heal

Jozeff,  sometimes you just have to make hard choices but those choices are completely your own

 

we all do things that are not good for us (or may be potentially harmful to us) and we rationalize them as needed to continue to do them

 

but in the end, the ONLY person we hurt is ourselves.

I'm not saying the caffeine is causing your issues, nor even that you'll feel better if you quit it, you may not 😕 but the only way to know is to cut it out and see if it helps

 

but that's entirely up to you.

 

you're likely still going to have WD symptoms and it's VERY helpful to try to find non drug and non "substance" ways to cope with those symptoms

 

what sorts of things are you trying in the non drug coping skills dept?

 

oh, how exciting!! your baby's first "picture".  will you be able to tell the gender and is that something you want to know in advance of birth?

 

I hope you have a great day! I'll be thinking of you and your growing family :)

 

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jozeff

Hi h2h thanks a lot!

 

And chessiecat of course!

 

The 'first picture' looked good. It's a healthy baby, 8 weeks old and a firm heartbeat!

 

To answer your question...

Well I don't do a lot of non medical things to deal with my citalopram (WD). I visit a psychologist weekly for my anxiety issues but that's not really helpful, just talking 45 minutes...

 

I have a full-time job at a laboratory where I have to walk a lot. I don't exercise to be honest, I used to workout 4 years ago and earlier. I was an alcoholic for 6 years and that is not a good fundament for going to excersize.

 

I read a lot about depression and WD etc.

 

 

I'm 4.5 years 100% sober. I am tapering since April but updosed august 11th (only 1.5 mg from 16.5 to 18 but still).

 

I don't know if my tapering or the small updose or my messing around in dose last year causes my mood changes. Could be all of them, we may never know.

 

The thing is that I feel good, sad, anxious, depressed, tired, nervous, muscle cramps or feverish but it's always something. No day is without these symptoms. A good day is maybe twice a week max.

 

I can't remember having these fluctuations last year so it could be WD. 

 

The health anxiety is evil because every time my heart races or I feel feverish it may be a heart attack coming....you never know. Also the question, how long will this take is always on my mind. 

 

And, if it isn't WD what the hell is wrong with me???

 

Changing supplements or coffee/coke habits will take some time to be effective. A few weeks trying this and that. Before you know it your trying a lot of things for half a year.

 

I keep a very detailed spreadsheet about my moods and foods and sups. That might be helpful after a while. Just started two weeks ago so I don't see a pattern yet.

 

I think I'll have to start drinking less diet Coke. This may cause some issues.

 

Thank you for your kind words!!

 

I hope you are doing well. I will read your topic again so perhaps I can give YOU some advice😉

 

Cheers

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

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