absolutelysickofpills: I think I'm in trouble

[absolutelysickofpills]

Hello.

 

I first took venlafaxine (immediate release) in late 1998 at the lowest dose (75mg, i.e. 37.5mg x2 daily) I continued on that dose until July 2003 when (without consulting anyone, I'm now ashamed to say) I started to omit every other morning dose. I continued doing this until the beginning of 2006 (unfortunately I have lost the diary for that year so cannot be precise as to by how much and over exactly what period I further reduced the dose) when I began reducing the dose until by March or April 2006 I was not taking any venlafaxine.

 

I do not recall any problematic symptoms, but during that time I did have access to diazepam, so perhaps that may have masked them.

 

I had also started psychotherapy at the beginning of 2005.

 

I felt fine for the rest of 2006, including coping with the sudden death of my father and the stress of dealing with his estate.

 

Toward the end of January 2007, I started experiencing a return of the symptoms that led me to be given venlafaxine in the first place. In February 2007 I went back on to the original dose (75mg, i.e 37.5mg x2 daily). Within 6 weeks or so I felt fine.

 

I continued on that dose until October 2017 (I wish I'd found this site a year ago!) when I reinstated the omission of every other morning dose ( I told my GP I was doing this). Everything seemed to go okay until the middle of May when I began to feel the returning symptoms of depression, anxiety and tension until at the end of June I just seemed to cross a line where nothing could reach me.

 

I went to my GP and started taking 37.5mg x2 daily again, hoping for a similar effect as in 2007. After 8 weeks of no improvement the GP put me on 150mg of venlafaxine (75mg x2 daily). I stuck it for 4 weeks and went back to the original lower dose while I try to figure out what to do.

 

As a result of searching the internet I discovered the phenomenon of “poop out” or tachyphylaxis, which made me think that perhaps I should give venlafaxine up altogether (and not replace it with sertraline,as my GP has suggested), which is how I ended up at this site.

 

Certainly the venlafaxine has not restored me to feeling “normal” by the standards of 2007 to 2017.

 

In fact I feel worse than I have ever felt. The worst symptom is a continuous tension in my neck/head/ upper spine that does not respond to anything (massage/valium/hitting a punchball/stretching) and feels like a mixture of physical and emotional tension. Anybody recognise that?

 

I have discussed with my GP getting a liquid version of venlafaxine (available in the UK from this company: http://ipsspecials.com/) but he said he cannot prescribe it (even though I offered to pay for it myself) because it is unlicensed. Disappointing, to say the least.

 

I told him about this site and the 10% taper method, and, while he didn't say it was rubbish, I could tell he thought it was unnecessarily cautious.

 

The methods used here (making a liquid or weighing powder) do seem daunting.

 

The dilemma I have at the moment is whether I ought to start tapering or whether to continue taking 75mg daily to see if any “improvement” happens before deciding to taper.

 

I should also state that I have been taking diazepam 5mg (“as required”) for the last 20 years. My usage probably averaged out about 5mg daily for the last 10 years, but recently, because of the state I'm in it has increased.

 

I have also had two acupuncture treatments recently, in the hope that it might make me feel a bit more like my old self, but perhaps acupuncture isn't appropriate at this stage.

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, absolutely.

 

Is your immediate-release venlafaxine in the form of tablets? If so, you can make a liquid yourself, see Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine)

 

How often do you take Valium 5mg? The Valium may be causing some of your symptoms. Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

[absolutelysickofpills]

Thank you for your welcome, Altostrata.

 

My venlafaxine is in tablet form. I have read the Tips for tapering off Efexor (venlafaxine) thread several times already. I may need help with the intricacies of making a liquid.

 

Recently I have taken Valium 5mg somewhat randomly, depending on how I feel. Do you think I should take it at one time of day only?

 

I will try to get myself together to keep the daily notes as you suggest.

 

First I need to adequately describe what I call the continuous emotional/physical tension mentioned above. I feel as though much of my self has gone away. Perhaps one way of describing it is this: imagine if one gets very tense/angry/anxious; "normally", once the situation causing this has passed, one begins to relax and feel content again and pleasant feelings return. That has gone for me. I cannot get there any more. Is this extreme anxiety? I can no longer relate to music (in fact it is painful to listen to it because of the absence of response). I can no longer feel sexual desire. I cannot laugh.

 

I'm sorry if this is a bit rambling but it seems important to me to try to convey this very unpleasant state.

 

The only thing which has brought a smidgin of relief is when a friend came round a few days ago and she simply held my hand for a while. Even then this feeling didn't lift but some "good" feeling did fight its way through for a while afterwards.

 

Once again, thank you for responding to my initial post.

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Have you been taking Valium every day or even every other day? If so, you may be feeling a side effect from Valium.

 

We need to see if your symptoms follow a pattern. Please post those daily notes.

 

[absolutelysickofpills]

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Have you been taking Valium every day or even every other day? If so, you may be feeling a side effect from Valium.

 

We need to see if your symptoms follow a pattern. Please post those daily notes.

 

I have been taking Valium every day. Recently I have sometimes taken it twice a day.

 

Describing some of my symptoms in daily notes is going to be a challenge.

 

Before I try doing that perhaps I could ask a question or two about the logistics of tapering off immediate release venlafaxine? I'll do it in the Tapering area.

 

Once again thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.

 

 

[absolutelysickofpills]

Please forgive me if I seem a bit slow. I have been reading the thread about making a liquid from tablets.

 

If I take a 37.5mg tablet of (immediate release) venlafaxine and dissolve it in 37.5mg of water, would I be doing the right thing? Then I have to remove 3.75ml of water to leave me with a dose reduced by 10% (which should equal 33.75ml).

 

Do oral syringes and measuring jars come gradated up to 2 decimal points?

 

I see that 90% of 33.75 is 30.375 (I suppose I could round it up to 30.8).

 

As I say, apologies if I haven't grasped this properly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

This topic is the place to ask questions about your taper. Tips for tapering off Effexor (venlafaxine) explains how to taper off immediate-release venlafaxine in detail. Basically, you use a liquid. Do you have any questions about how this might apply to you?

 

We need to know when you take Valium, at what dosage, and your symptom pattern before and after you take it, along with your Effexor schedule. You can note when you take your drugs, correct? What about your symptoms makes them difficult to note?

 

 

[VincentV]

and feels like a mixture of physical and emotional tension. Anybody recognise that?

 

Yes i have that from sertraline, it can get very acute. Glad (I mean thats not the right word) *its not just me. Feels like cheese wire is being pulled tight within me. Very odd and horrible. 

[ChessieCat]

I've moved your post to your Intro topic so that you can find it easier if you need to refer back to it.

 

using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

PLEASE NOTE:

 

On 5/6/2011 at 1:01 PM, Altostrata said:

Regular Effexor tablets come in 25mg, 37.5mg, 50mg, 75mg, and 100mg doses. Because it's half-life is so short, it is taken 2 or 3 times a day.

 

 

3 hours ago, absolutelysickofpills said:

If I take a 37.5mg tablet of (immediate release) venlafaxine and dissolve it in 37.5mg of water, would I be doing the right thing?

 

This would make each 1mL of liquid = 1mg dose.

 

You could double (or quadruple, triple would be trickier to calculate) the amount of water you use so that each 1mL = 0.5mg dose (2mL = 1mg dose).  Using more water means that it would be easier to measure the dose you need.  If you double the water you would then have to take twice as much liquid  (see following response:  37.5mL x 0.9 x 2 = 67.5mL).

 

Please remember to do it the same way each time and use the some equipment.

 

3 hours ago, absolutelysickofpills said:

Then I have to remove 3.75ml of water to leave me with a dose reduced by 10% (which should equal 33.75ml).

 

Yes, this is correct.  37.5mL x 0.9 = 33.75mL

 

3 hours ago, absolutelysickofpills said:

I see that 90% of 33.75 is 30.375 (I suppose I could round it up to 30.8).

 

It would be easier to round this number.  Please always round up, which makes the percentage <10% not more.

 

You would only need to round this up to 30.4 or 30.5.  Whichever is easier to measure.

 

Also remember to calculate the next reduction on the dose you took.

[Altostrata]

@absolutelysickofpills we need to know your Valium dosing schedule, any symptoms you get might be from Valium rather than Effexor tapering.

[ChessieCat]

On 11/9/2018 at 8:31 AM, Altostrata said:

We need to see if your symptoms follow a pattern. Please post those daily notes.

 

This is an example of what is required.  It can help the mods assess your situation and offer suggestions.

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[absolutelysickofpills]

Thank you both for your responses.

 

I will start to keep the records as you suggest and post them in a day or two.

[absolutelysickofpills]

11 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I've moved your post to your Intro topic so that you can find it easier if you need to refer back to it.

 

using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

PLEASE NOTE:

 

 

 

 

This would make each 1mL of liquid = 1mg dose.

 

You could double (or quadruple, triple would be trickier to calculate) the amount of water you use so that each 1mL = 0.5mg dose (2mL = 1mg dose).  Using more water means that it would be easier to measure the dose you need.  If you double the water you would then have to take twice as much liquid  (see following response:  37.5mL x 0.9 x 2 = 67.5mL).

 

Please remember to do it the same way each time and use the some equipment.

 

 

Yes, this is correct.  37.5mL x 0.9 = 33.75mL

 

 

It would be easier to round this number.  Please always round up, which makes the percentage <10% not more.

 

You would only need to round this up to 30.4 or 30.5.  Whichever is easier to measure.

 

Also remember to calculate the next reduction on the dose you took.

 Again, thank you.

 

Just to make sure: the fact that the tablet contains some bulking agent(s) is not important for making a liquid and its calculations?

[ChessieCat]

Yes, the tablets contain fillers.  The important this is to do everything the same way, being as accurate as possible with the measuring and  using the same tools.  This will keep your dose as consistent as possible.  Even using the same area of the kitchen bench to check the level of water can be a good idea.

 

It's a good idea to write down your instructions, so you can refer back to it if you need to, like a cooking recipe, including the exact process you use.  Even people who aren't experiencing withdrawal symptoms occasionally have a brain freeze.

[absolutelysickofpills]

Thank you.

[absolutelysickofpills]

15 hours ago, VincentV said:

and feels like a mixture of physical and emotional tension. Anybody recognise that?

 

Yes i have that from sertraline, it can get very acute. Glad (I mean thats not the right word) *its not just me. Feels like cheese wire is being pulled tight within me. Very odd and horrible. 

 I'm sorry to hear that you have that.

 

I also see, from your Intro, that you find it difficult to describe your "core" symptoms, i.e. "which are the closest I can come to describing these horrible weird feelings".

 

I find it almost impossible too. The worst thing is that the state I'm in is unrelenting, there is no small place of comfort to crawl into.

 

Like you, I have speculated about endorphins and whether my body has stopped producing them or whether some other system has shut down.

 

 

[absolutelysickofpills]

14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@absolutelysickofpills we need to know your Valium dosing schedule, any symptoms you get might be from Valium rather than Effexor tapering.

 

I should point out that I'm not tapering yet. Still on the reinstated dose of 37.5mg x2 daily (for all the use it is.)

 

[Altostrata]

Correct. Before you start tapering Effexor, we should determine if the benzo is causing problems, or you may misinterpret symptoms arising after you start tapering.

[absolutelysickofpills]

Understood.

 

Do you think that Valium might have finally "gone bad" on me?

[absolutelysickofpills]

As requested.

 

10^th November 2018

 

04.32: Woke. Anxiety begins.

07.00: Took 37.5mg venlafaxine. Got white noise on radio, put pillow over head and dozed.

08.00: Woke up from doze. Anxiety.

08.30: Got up. Looked at SA. Focusing on content is distracting and anxiety diminishes a bit.

09.30: Breakfast. Anxiety. More online stuff.

12.00: Dragged myself to shower, got dressed.

13.00: Went for a short drive in the countryside. Distraction diminishes anxiety. Going past a place where I used to enjoy walking before I lost myself a bit of sadness struggles through the tension.

14.00: Lunch.

14.30: Lay on couch. Tachycardia for about 10 minutes. Watched TV until:

17.00: Took 37.5mg venlafaxine. More perusing SA.

19.30: Dinner. Couch TV.

20.30: Take 5mg diazepam.

23.00: Bed. Fell asleep before midnight.

 

11^th November 2018

 

04.55: Woke up. No anxiety just the constant tension.

07.00: Took 37.5mg venlafaxine.

09.00: Got up. Breakfast. Lavatory: loose stools (I assume this may be relevant, but I have had IBS for 9 years). Had to go again an hour later (not uncommon these days).

13.15: Lunch. Insides still a bit volatile.

15.30: Short drive in the countryside.

17.00: Took 37.5mg venlafaxine.

18.00: Neighbours making a noise (which they usually don't but I am ultra sensitive to disturbance) so take 5mg diazepam.

19.30: Dinner. Couch TV

22.30: Bed.

23.00:5mg diazepam. Asleep before midnight.

 

 

12^th November 2018

 

04.05: Woke up. Anxiety.

07.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine. White noise. Pillow. Light doze.

09.00: Got up. Anxiety about going out for lunch today and appointment with lawyer tomorrow.

09.10: Breakfast. Anxiety (see above)

11.30: Shower. Anxiety (see above)

12.30: Drive to friend's house for lunch. Anxiety lessens (but not the constant tension)

15.25: Come home. Look at SA.

17.00: 37.5mg of venlafaxine.

19.00: Anxiety (about appointment tomorrow)

19.45: 5mg diazepam

22.00: Bed

23.00: 5mg diazepam. Asleep before midnight.

 

[absolutelysickofpills]

I've also changed my signature to show that for 4 weeks (Aug/Sep) this year I took (at my GP's suggestion) 150mg a day of venlafaxine.

 

Thank you again for your time and patience.

[Altostrata]

Good notes, thanks.

 

Have you always woken around 4 a.m.?

 

Do you feel better or worse when you take a dose of venlafaxine? How do you feel after you take diazepam in the evening?

[Shep]

Absolutely, thank you for doing your drug and symptoms journal. Please continue doing so for a few more days, as we really need to get a good feel for your Valium intake and how it's affecting you. 

 

Your signature says 5 mg Valium "as needed" and I see you took one 5 mg dose on the 10th and then two 5 mg doses each day on the 11th and 12th. 

 

It's very important to be consistent with your dosing. Are you able to find non-drug ways of getting through the day without taking any Valium until your nightly dose?

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Two questions: 

 

• How many days a week do you think you take more than 1 Valium dose in a day?
• How long have you been taking 5 mg at night? 

Please continue your updates. 

 

 

[absolutelysickofpills]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

Absolutely, thank you for doing your drug and symptoms journal. Please continue doing so for a few more days, as we really need to get a good feel for your Valium intake and how it's affecting you. 

 

Your signature says 5 mg Valium "as needed" and I see you took one 5 mg dose on the 10th and then two 5 mg doses each day on the 11th and 12th. 

 

It's very important to be consistent with your dosing. Are you able to find non-drug ways of getting through the day without taking any Valium until your nightly dose?

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Two questions: 

 

• How many days a week do you think you take more than 1 Valium dose in a day?
• How long have you been taking 5 mg at night? 

Please continue your updates. 

 

 

Thank you for responding, Shep.

 

Monday and its anticipation of Tuesday's events (a mere 35 minute journey to sit in a room and talk to a lawyer about making a new will, an undertaking which before I "crashed" in July 2018, would have been  an opportunity for a pleasant morning and lunchtime out) became, in my present state (which I find frustratingly difficult to describe satisfactorily) a prospect of enormous and uncontrollable anxiety. Because it is important to me that I got this task done, I took extra diazepam to ensure I would not be incapacitated by anxiety.

 

At the moment there is no normal. Before July I took 5mg diazepam most nights before going to sleep. Occasionally I didn't and occasionally I took 5mg diazepam at any time of day if something made me particularly tense.

 

I realise that not being consistent is deeply unsatisfactory, but, for better or worse, that's how I started with diazepam in 1998 (you can see from my signature that I also was prescribed diazepam from 1976 to 1984, when, knowing no better, I CT'd it. That made for an "interesting" time which, at the time, I put down to other factors in my life).

 

In fact, I started on diazepam a week or two before venlafaxine. So I have always taken them together (I don't mean literally at the same time).

 

I agree that I need to do some more daily notes.

 

 

 

 

 

[absolutelysickofpills]

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Good notes, thanks.

 

Have you always woken around 4 a.m.?

 

Do you feel better or worse when you take a dose of venlafaxine? How do you feel after you take diazepam in the evening?

 

I have woken between 4 and 5 a.m. most but not all mornings for the last 10+ years. Before July 2018, this was usually because I needed to urinate.

 

As for for feeling worse or better after venlafaxine, I cannot really say I've noticed a difference, either before July's crash or after it, although it is interesting to see that on 2 mornings above I managed to doze a bit for an hour after taking it in the morning.

 

As to diazepam, at least I have never felt worse after taking it.

 

As you can see, Shep has suggested that I keep some more daily notes. I think it's worth doing that to try to answer your questions better.

[absolutelysickofpills]

On 11/8/2018 at 9:09 AM, absolutelysickofpills said:

First I need to adequately describe what I call the continuous emotional/physical tension mentioned above. I feel as though much of my self has gone away. Perhaps one way of describing it is this: imagine if one gets very tense/angry/anxious; "normally", once the situation causing this has passed, one begins to relax and feel content again and pleasant feelings return. That has gone for me. I cannot get there any more. Is this extreme anxiety? I can no longer relate to music (in fact it is painful to listen to it because of the absence of response). I can no longer feel sexual desire. I cannot laugh.

 

Actually, I feel as if all of my self has gone. Internally, I cannot find any rest. If you press your fists together and push each against the other, then that is how I feel all the time, only it is not a simply physical sensation (one could have a headache or some muscle tension without feeling completely empty).

 

A friend who is a psychotherapist suggested that what I am experiencing is like (or actually is) what an infant of 0 to about 12 months might experience if left on its own for too long.

 

Apologies  for trying (and probably failing) yet again to adequately describe how I feel all the time now, irrespective of added episodes of anxiety (or fear?).

 

While in no way wanting to wave the flag for psychotropic drugs (some people here seem to have been prescribed them for the most spurious reasons), I must be honest and say that in 1978 the combination of tricyclics and diazepam and in 1998, the venlafaxine and diazepam, probably saved me from much, much worse, given the options available.

 

But I do find it disgraceful that we have to resort to a (albeit very good) peer to peer website if we want to come off psychotropic drugs safely.

 

 

[Altostrata]

That kind of absent feeling might be a side effect of diazepam or from going on and off drugs.

 

Your tension might be an adverse reaction to diazepam. We need to see those daily notes!!

 

I agree, I look forward to the day when physicians are more attentive to adverse drug reactions and this site is not needed.

[Shep]

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

You may want to try a bit of magnesium to start off and see if that helps, Absolutely. If you can get the anxiety toned down, you may be more consistent with your benzo use. 

 

Please also include supplements in your drug and symptoms journal. 

[absolutelysickofpills]

16 minutes ago, Shep said:

We don't recommend a lot of supplements, as many members report their nervous systems are simply too fragile to handle them. However, magnesium and fish oil tend to be calming to the nervous system and many people report they do help. Please only add in one supplement at a time and at a small dose. For more, please see:

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

You may want to try a bit of magnesium to start off and see if that helps, Absolutely. If you can get the anxiety toned down, you may be more consistent with your benzo use. 

 

Please also include supplements in your drug and symptoms journal. 

Thank you, Shep.

 

I have tried a little magnesium already. I'm not sure it did much for me, but I was probably expecting too much. I don't think I had any bad reaction to it.

 

I will post daily notes again in a day or three.

 

 

[absolutelysickofpills]

15^th November 2018

 

06.00: Woke up (later to bed than usual)

07.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine. No dozing.

09.00: Got up

09.15: Breakfast. Anxiety about things I have to do next week.

11.30: Food shopping

13.30: Lunch. Some anxiety about my current predicament.

14.00: Phone call to a friend to fill the absolute emptiness.

17.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine.

18.30: Dinner. Couch. TV

10.10: Bed. 5mg diazepam. Asleep before midnight.

 

 

 

16^th November 2018

 

0300: Woke up. Anxiety about stuff next week and about not being able to get back to sleep

06.15: Fell into a sort of doze.

07.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine.

08.45: Got up. Breakfast.

09.00: Looking at SA on and off throughout the morning.

13.10: Lunch.

14.50: Went out to post a letter, feeling like a zombie (lack of sleep on top of existing stuff)

Very tired for rest of afternoon but unable to nap.

17.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine.

18.00: Dinner. Phone call to a friend. Couch, TV

19.50: due to lack of sleep begin to feel very edgy so take 5mg diazepam.

21.30: Bed, asleep by 10.15 or thereabouts.

23.00: Wake up. Fall back to sleep…

 

 

 

17^th November 2018

 

01.00: Wake up. Fall back to sleep at some stage,

02.48: Wake up. Cannot fall back to sleep.

07.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine.

08.50: Get up.

09.00: Breakfast. Not feeling at all good, especially about not sleeping.

10.50: Force myself to have a shower.

11.15: Anxiety/fear about my situation. Reflect that the last 20+ years of being the person I was (and was happiest as) has gone out the window in just over 4 months.

12.30: Keep feeling my bowels want to just empty but going to the lavatory only produces a small amount of loose faeces (sorry if too graphic).

12.50: Drink peppermint tea. Read SA.

13.08: Eat some toast.

14.00: Go for short drive, to buy some food but also to see the sun. Too tired to go for a long drive.

17.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine

17.50: Anxiety (possibly due to waiting for a phone call). Also anxiety about the anxiety because I am so tired.

18.50: Dinner.

19.00: Looking at SA and other stuff.

19.30: Couch, TV

21.45: Bed, 5mg diazepam. Neighbour bangs a car door really loudly. More adrenaline (?). Don't exactly sleep but sort of doze until 01.00 (18^th November).

 

[Shep]

Absolutely, sorry for the delay in responding. Thank you for writing out your drug and symptoms journal. I really like how you write "anxiety" and then place it into perspective such as anxiety "waiting for a phone call" and my favorite, "anxiety about the anxiety"! 

 

You're doing a great job of keeping the the Valium to once a day. My only suggestion is to try to take your drugs and the same time of the day, as much as possible. On  November 15, you took the 5 mg Valium at 10 pm, on the 16th it was at 7:50 pm, and then the 17th, at 9:45 PM. As much as possible, pick one time of night and take it consistently. 

 

Taking it at differing times confuses your nervous system, as well as making it difficult to know how it's really effecting your sleep and if some of your morning symptoms could be from the differing times you dose at night. 

 

If you set it at say, 9 PM, and you start to feel anxious at 7 PM, instead of taking it early, find a non-drug coping technique that you like. A guided meditation, a series of yoga stretches, an epsom salt bath, some gentle music, etc. 

 

Here's more information:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

I'm posting below a great list of links that ChessieCat recently posted to another member. Instead of taking the Valium at an earlier time, try the first link, First Aid for Panic. This is by Dr. Claire Weekes, an expert in helping people cope with severe anxiety and panic. 

 

If you can master the skill of letting anxious thoughts pass without engaging in those thoughts, it will serve you well during withdrawal and well into the future, your drug-free future.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Acceptance

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

 

Another great technique is the 4-7-8 Breathing Technique:

 

4-7-8 Breathing: Health Benefits & Demonstration article and 8 minute video

 

4-7-8 Breathing Exercise by GoZen video (3.5 minutes)

 

My favorite mindfulness teacher on the YouTube is named Mooji and he likes to say, "Your thoughts are just visitors and you are NOT a hotel. Don't let them in."  It's when you engage in mental dialogue with these thoughts that the anxiety grows. And this can lead to a spiral. Brassmonkey wrote an excellent post about that:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

A great technique to not go into a spiral:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

And some of our emotions are simply exaggerations brought on by withdrawal. These are killed neuro-emotions:

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Please keep posting your drug and symptoms journal and let us know how you're doing. If you find non-drug coping techniques that work, please include that in your notes, as well. Bring in one or two technique now and you'll build on that.

 

And by the time you're off these drugs, you'll have built up the skills you need to survive whatever stress comes your way. It's a process. 

[absolutelysickofpills]

17 minutes ago, Shep said:

Absolutely, sorry for the delay in responding. Thank you for writing out your drug and symptoms journal. I really like how you write "anxiety" and then place it into perspective such as anxiety "waiting for a phone call" and my favorite, "anxiety about the anxiety"! 

 

You're doing a great job of keeping the the Valium to once a day. My only suggestion is to try to take your drugs and the same time of the day, as much as possible. On  November 15, you took the 5 mg Valium at 10 pm, on the 16th it was at 7:50 pm, and then the 17th, at 9:45 PM. As much as possible, pick one time of night and take it consistently. 

 

Taking it at differing times confuses your nervous system, as well as making it difficult to know how it's really effecting your sleep and if some of your morning symptoms could be from the differing times you dose at night. 

 

If you set it at say, 9 PM, and you start to feel anxious at 7 PM, instead of taking it early, find a non-drug coping technique that you like. A guided meditation, a series of yoga stretches, an epsom salt bath, some gentle music, etc. 

 

Here's more information:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

I'm posting below a great list of links that ChessieCat recently posted to another member. Instead of taking the Valium at an earlier time, try the first link, First Aid for Panic. This is by Dr. Claire Weekes, an expert in helping people cope with severe anxiety and panic. 

 

If you can master the skill of letting anxious thoughts pass without engaging in those thoughts, it will serve you well during withdrawal and well into the future, your drug-free future.

 

 

 

 

 

Another great technique is the 4-7-8 Breathing Technique:

 

4-7-8 Breathing: Health Benefits & Demonstration article and 8 minute video

 

4-7-8 Breathing Exercise by GoZen video (3.5 minutes)

 

My favorite mindfulness teacher on the YouTube is named Mooji and he likes to say, "Your thoughts are just visitors and you are NOT a hotel. Don't let them in."  It's when you engage in mental dialogue with these thoughts that the anxiety grows. And this can lead to a spiral. Brassmonkey wrote an excellent post about that:

 

Dealing With Emotional Spirals

 

A great technique to not go into a spiral:

 

"Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

And some of our emotions are simply exaggerations brought on by withdrawal. These are killed neuro-emotions:

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Please keep posting your drug and symptoms journal and let us know how you're doing. If you find non-drug coping techniques that work, please include that in your notes, as well. Bring in one or two technique now and you'll build on that.

 

And by the time you're off these drugs, you'll have built up the skills you need to survive whatever stress comes your way. It's a process. 

 

It certainly is a bloody process! (we need an emoticon for a sardonic laugh).

 

No need to apologise for not responding sooner

 

I take your point about trying to take the diazepam at the same time of day. Once I've got past something I have to do on Thursday I'm hoping that will be easier.

 

Here are some more daily notes (sorry that they slip over into the next day on the last one.).

 

18^th November 2018

 

01.00: Awake.

03.15: Give in and take another 5mg diazepam. Sleep until 06.15.

07.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine

08.45: Get up. Breakfast. Find SA is offline. Anxiety.

10.00: Do some gardening but because I have so little energy I realise that this was a bad move and feel worse for it. Anxiety, tension, very tired.

13.00: Lunch.

14.00: Try to nap but can't.

17.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine.

18.30: Dinner.

20.00: Phone call.

21.45: Bed. 5mg diazepam. Must have gone to sleep at some stage but…

 

19^th November 2018

 

03.30. Wake up. Do not go back to sleep.

07.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine.

08.40: Up. Breakfast.

09.40: Anxiety about some stuff I have to do later in the week.

11.00: Phone conversation. Anxiety diminishes, but feel drained and, of course, the continual tension persists.

13.00: Lunch.

13.30: Try to nap but don't. End up reading something which does distract me a bit.

17.00: 37.5mg venlafaxine. Put some washing in machine. Very tired.

18.30: Dinner.

19.30-ish until about 21.00, lying on couch, TV in background. For about 35 mins I find myself feeling a slight lessening of the tension and emptiness. By no means back to normal (as defined by how I felt a year ago), but some sort of tolerable space opens up. Then the neighbour with the loud car door does his stuff and I am derailed.

10.30. Go to bed, not feeling quite as bad as previous bedtimes. Decide to see if I can go without diazepam. But, still not asleep by 00.15 (20^th November) so take 5mg diazepam and sleep till 06.00 this morning.

 

 

The lack of sleep has been a big issue the last few days.

 

I will look at the various threads you have suggested. I remember Claire Weekes from over 40 years ago and could not get on with her stuff at all (I don't mean to be negative but that's how it was).

 

Thanks for your continuing support.

[Shep]

23 hours ago, absolutelysickofpills said:

10.30. Go to bed, not feeling quite as bad as previous bedtimes. Decide to see if I can go without diazepam. But, still not asleep by 00.15 (20^th November) so take 5mg diazepam and sleep till 06.00 this morning.

 

 

Please don't go into the thought-stream of trying to skip the diazepam. You likely are dependent, so getting on a consistent dose, taking it at the same time each night, will be what's best for your nervous system. You'll be able to do a gentle and slow taper at some point, probably after coming off Venlafaxine. 

 

Since the diazepam is helping with sleep, you'll want to taper that drug last. Here is more on that:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

23 hours ago, absolutelysickofpills said:

I will look at the various threads you have suggested. I remember Claire Weekes from over 40 years ago and could not get on with her stuff at all (I don't mean to be negative but that's how it was).

 

She's not for everyone, but there are loads more out there in YouTube. Have you heard of Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn, the mindfulness-based doctor who uses mindfulness to treat pain, stress, and anxiety? 

 

This is one of his videos, the bodyscan. It's very good for helping you relax the body in order to settle the mind. 

 

Jon Kabat Zinn Body Scan Meditation GUIDED MEDITATION video (45 minutes)

 

And a much shorter exercise, the breathing space:

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn video (4 minutes)

 

 

[powerback]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 2:28 PM, absolutelysickofpills said:

A friend who is a psychotherapist suggested that what I am experiencing is like (or actually is) what an infant of 0 to about 12 months might experience if left on its own for too long.

Hi ASOP nice to meet you ,reading some of your thread I can relate to a lot .this particularly is very interesting above  ,have you had anxiety your whole life ,very late in life I realised I have

.ive done a lot of introspection and sometimes I wonder if I believe the thought of something that happened or did it actually happen .

I was a very sick infant [Asmtha] .I have a memory of being a toddler 2 to 6 maybe, looking out a big window of a hospital and being alone, without question leaving a child unaccompanied at a young age  is not an option ,my mother says in the 80s the hospitals were controlled by the nuns and you didn't mess with them.my [parents are working class so there's no blame on them ].

I will try and parent my inner child and nurture this vulnerability going forward but its hard because a lot of my childhood is marred with rejection  .

Im often in a catch 22 with my parents ,maybe more  my mam [who I love ],I think the Irish culture of shame/judgement  stopped her from understanding me as a child ,but who knows if I was on meds as a kid god knows if I would even get this far.

Take care.

Welcome and take care .

[absolutelysickofpills]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Please don't go into the thought-stream of trying to skip the diazepam. You likely are dependent, so getting on a consistent dose, taking it at the same time each night, will be what's best for your nervous system. You'll be able to do a gentle and slow taper at some point, probably after coming off Venlafaxine. 

 

Since the diazepam is helping with sleep, you'll want to taper that drug last. Here is more on that:

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first?

 

 

She's not for everyone, but there are loads more out there in YouTube. Have you heard of Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn, the mindfulness-based doctor who uses mindfulness to treat pain, stress, and anxiety? 

 

This is one of his videos, the bodyscan. It's very good for helping you relax the body in order to settle the mind. 

 

Jon Kabat Zinn Body Scan Meditation GUIDED MEDITATION video (45 minutes)

 

And a much shorter exercise, the breathing space:

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn video (4 minutes)

 

 

 

I won't skip the diazepam.

 

I will look at the video.

 

Thanks, Shep.

[absolutelysickofpills]

1 hour ago, powerback said:

Hi ASOP nice to meet you ,reading some of your thread I can relate to a lot .this particularly is very interesting above  ,have you had anxiety your whole life ,very late in life I realised I have

.ive done a lot of introspection and sometimes I wonder if I believe the thought of something that happened or did it actually happen .

I was a very sick infant [Asmtha] .I have a memory of being a toddler 2 to 6 maybe, looking out a big window of a hospital and being alone, without question leaving a child unaccompanied at a young age  is not an option ,my mother says in the 80s the hospitals were controlled by the nuns and you didn't mess with them.my [parents are working class so there's no blame on them ].

I will try and parent my inner child and nurture this vulnerability going forward but its hard because a lot of my childhood is marred with rejection  .

Im often in a catch 22 with my parents ,maybe more  my mam [who I love ],I think the Irish culture of shame/judgement  stopped her from understanding me as a child ,but who knows if I was on meds as a kid god knows if I would even get this far.

Take care.

Welcome and take care .

Hello.

I find talking about this stuff very hard and at the moment I need to keep myself together. I hope you find peace, as I hope we all shall.

Please don't take it amiss if I don't go any further pondering this matter right now.

 

I wish you well.