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Dejavu

Dejavu: can anyone tell me what's going on?

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ChessieCat
6 minutes ago, Dejavu said:

Question: Up until yesterday I was taking 350mg of magnesium and I think it was helping take the edge off my anxiety. But Friday my doc said to stop because my magnesium level was normal and too much would affect my heart. Anyone ever heard of this?

 

I suggest you ask this in the Magnesium topic.  And you can google it too.  I haven't been able to find anything when I searched "magnesium supplement causes heart issues".  It was actually the opposite that I found, that people are usually low in magnesium and take magnesium for heart health.

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Songbird
11 hours ago, Dejavu said:

Slept last night without melatonin or hydroxyzine...just 400 mg ibuprofen, which is good, but I'm very, very depressed today - partly situational I think

 

Also it looks like your anxiety level has been reducing.  Sometimes when severe anxiety eases, we can feel more depressed.  I think it is to do with the body feeling a bit exhausted after keeping up a high anxiety state for quite a while.  So in a way you could think of it as kind of a good sign.

 

2 hours ago, Dejavu said:

Question: Up until yesterday I was taking 350mg of magnesium and I think it was helping take the edge off my anxiety. But Friday my doc said to stop because my magnesium level was normal and too much would affect my heart. Anyone ever heard of this?

 

Do you have any heart conditions?  If not and your kidney function is normal, it is unlikely you would have a problem at that dose, which isn't especially large.

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Dejavu

Thank you @Songbird. That's what I figured, but I guess I can't blame her for being careful. I dont have kidney or heart issues. She is well meaning but clueless. As long as she keeps writing the scripts (which she seems more than happy to do), she can be as clueless as she wishes. The good thing about a doctor who thinks these drugs are beneficial is that they tend to support long tapers, right? Not that we are on the same page, but more like a confluence of interests.

 

Had my first accupuncture treatment today. 20 minutes in, I felt the anxiety and depression drain from my body and I suddenly felt very hungry. I've not had much appetite at all for several weeks. I also caught myself smiling, which hasn't happened in a while either. Afterward, I went with my brothers to the grocery store. My anxiety heightened during the trip, I definitely felt the weakness in my legs, and I had a short crying spell when I got home, but I'm still glad I did it. I even managed to make a couple of jokes. I don't think I could have managed the trip without the accupuncture. I'm looking forward to next week's appointment to see if I get the same affect. I'm still pretty chill right now. Really liking my ND so far.

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Dejavu

Dec 10

 

2am - took 400 mg ibuprofen - fell asleep about 3am

 

9am - awakened by phone - no cortisol spike but anxiety started to increase 6/10

 

10am - attempted to meditate but fell asleep

 

1pm - woke up - anxiety 7/10 - depression 5/10 - weakness/tremor 8/10 - took shower - ate lunch - appetite 1/10 - dizziness 4/10 - palps 2/10

 

3pm - anxiety 7/10 - depression 5/10 - weakness/tremor 6/10 - dizziness 4/10

 

4pm - accupuncture appt. - anxiety 3/10 - depression 3/10 - weakness/tremor 5/10 - dizziness 2/10 - appetite 8/10

 

5pm - grocery shopping - anxiety 6/10 - depression 6/10 - weakness/tremor 8/10 - crying spell

 

7:30pm - ate dinner - appetite normal - took 2600 mg fish oil - anxiety 4/10 - depression 4/10 - weakness/tremor 5/10 - dizziness 3/10

 

9pm - diarrhea - headache 2/10 - weakness/tremor 6/10 - anxiety 3/10 - depression 3/10

 

10pm - took 13.5 mg zoloft liquid + 13.5 mg zoloft pill - anxiety 5/10 - depression 7/10 - weakness/tremor 6/10 - headache 4/10

 

Question for mods: is it okay to go to full liquid dose tomorrow? Is 2 days on half/half long enough? Thanks!

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Dejavu

Dec 11

1am - took 1 cortisol manager

 

2am - went to bed - finally fell asleep around 4am

 

Noon - woke up - no cortisol spike - anxiety 6/10 - depression 4/10 - diarrhea - tried to eat lunch - appetite 3/10 - weakness/tremor 4/10 

 

2:30pm - anxiety 7/10 - depression 5/10 - weakness/tremor 8/10 - headache 4/10 - walked 3/4 mile on treadmill

 

3:50pm - crying spell

 

6:00pm - short burst of optimism after phone call from friend - then return anxiety 6/10

 

8pm - ate dinner - anxiety 8/10 - depression 6/10 - dizziness 6/10 - weakness/tremor 4/10 - took 2600 mg fish oil

 

10:30pm - took 26mg zoloft - all liquid - anxiety 6/10 - depression 6/10 - weakness/tremor 5/10

 

@Songbird @Altostrata or any other mod: now that I've converted to all liquid (first night tonight), should I go from 25mg to 22.5 tomorrow to attempt to stabilize, as has been previously suggested? Do you see any improvement in symptoms? Thanks for your help.

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Songbird
4 hours ago, Dejavu said:

Do you see any improvement in symptoms? Thanks for your help.

 

Overall I'm seeing a gradual improvement in severity of symptoms - you're reporting fewer 9s and 10s, and more 4s and 5s.

 

I've created charts using a daily average of your scores out of 10 for anxiety, depression and weakness/tremor, which I'll try to attach here (not sure if this will work).

 

 

charts.pdf

Edited by Songbird

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Songbird
4 hours ago, Dejavu said:

 

@Songbird @Altostrata or any other mod: now that I've converted to all liquid (first night tonight), should I go from 25mg to 22.5 tomorrow to attempt to stabilize, as has been previously suggested? 

 

I would give the current dose in all liquid form a few days first.

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Dejavu

OMG, thank you for the charts @Songbird. Its really a big help to see it charted out. I woke up today with very high anxiety - another 8 for sure! - and I'm very despondent about it. But I hopped on the treadmill and walked a mile, which doesn't sound like a lot but it's really tough with shaky legs. Now I think its subsiding a bit. 

 

If I feel all right in 2 days with the liquid dosing, should I reduce then? Eager to see if the lower dose helps to stabilize me.

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Dejavu

Is there anyone out there to send a little vote of confidence? I feel so alone, despite the help from the wonderful moderators. 

 

Today the anxiety has been vicious and unrelenting. I have had only small respites from it since I reinstated. It waxes and wanes but never goes away. I'm so very tired. I keep praying to a God I'm not even sure is there to either heal me or take me. My husband, who is very understanding and supportive, nonetheless just asked me if I needed to go to the hospital, because he's out of ideas - this is very hard on him too.

 

We all know the ER will just give me benzos, and right now, I'm not gonna lie, that sounds tempting. I have been off klonopin for over a year now after a long 15 month taper. It wasn't easy and all that time and suffering would be negated if I ever took another benzo, but God, I am just tired of the constant adrenaline flow through my body almost every waking moment. 

 

I was on 50mg zoloft, fast tapered over 3 weeks and hit the wall in October. I reinstated at 25 mg a month ago and feel worse now than when I first reinstated. I'm trying to reduce the dosage per the mods' suggestions, but first I have to acclimate myself to liquid dosages, which I just started 3 nights ago. At this point, I'm doubting I will ever stabilize and afraid I'll feel this way for the rest of my life. 

 

Trying to practice breathing and gratitide, but I'm really struggling right now. If any one out there has a kind word for me right now, I could sure use it.  I don't even want to wake up tomorrow amd start this horrible grind all over again. 

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FarmGirlWorks

Warm thoughts coming at you, @Dejavu. Zoloft is a bat. I hear you about not want to wake up in the morning and start the grind again... I am still there. But it does get better, it does. I am sorry you are hurting so much but believe you are strong enough (you did a klonopin taper successfully -- awesome!) to survive this. Take care.

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Dejavu

Thank you @FarmGirlWorks. I'm just so tired...

 

You've been off zoloft for quite a while now. What if any effects are you still having?

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FarmGirlWorks

I know... the battle fatigue is real. I was hoping to be better several months ago. But when you read Success Stories (like Pug's), WD can last a lot longer unfortunately. Plus I just got irregular cycles so unclear what is WD and what is hormonal fluctuation. In the end, it doesn't matter, it is what it is. The symptoms I have now are dark depression, anxiety, fleeting SI, difficulty focusing -- cog fog, headaches. Occasionally there are nerve spasms in my face but again this could be for other reasons. Knock on wood, the head pressure, akathisia, and leaky eyes are gone. Improvement has definitely not been linear. But I remain hopeful. Hang in there.

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RachelSusan

@Dejavu

 

Hello Dejavu,

 

You are suffering. It is horrible.  I've been there. Zoloft was my poison as well. I cold turkey then reinstated.  It was so bad I wished I would die. I also went from hard pill to liquid which also caused me more withdrawal symptoms*. I don't want to minimize what you are going through and how long it will take to improve, but I do want to tell you that you will eventually feel normal again. It's hard to believe when you are in so much agony, but you will. I am so deeply sorry you are going through this.

 

xo

Rachel

 

*this was store bought liquid, so in sense I was changing brands. You shouldn't have this problem.

Edited by RachelSusan
said something incorrectly

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Dejavu

Sorry you're still having symptoms. Anxiety and depression are the worst, aren't they? It's a vicious cycle for me - all the other symptoms cause even more anxiety and depression for me. The good news for you is that you are completely off this rat poison. I know you will continue to improve - the body craves balance and will do what it must to achieve it. I believe it will happen for you, absolutely. Wonder why I can't believe it for myself??

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composter

Oh Deja, I'm thinking about you and praying for you. I was in the same state of mind as you just two months ago: Debilitating anxiety and headaches, at the end of my rope, unsure how long it would all last. It's such a lonely place to be. But as I stabilized, with time, these things have passed. I hope and pray the same thing for you. You will get there.

 

As much as you can, try to let go of your worry and your fear. I know it sounds impossible to do in your current situation. Perhaps you can think about it this way: What would you say to a friend if they were going through the same thing you're going? What would you want your future self (having passed through this difficult time) to tell your current self? You are doing all the right things. Continue to take things slowly, take care of yourself, and find ways to cope. I'm really happy to hear that you felt benefits from your acupuncture session.

 

But yes, if anything changes suddenly or you continue to feel the urgent need, a trip to the ER won't set you back and it may provide some consolation. Don't fear any disaster scenarios; you can be accompanied by your husband who can advocate for you. You can express that you refuse to take a benzo or another antidepressant. There's no shame in going to the ER--no one on here should discourage you from seeking urgent medical care.

 

Have YOU felt an improvement in your symptoms, however subtle it may be? I have personally benefitted greatly from charting my symptoms on a chart similar to the one provided in this thread from Dr. Glenmullen. It has helped me recognize patterns and see that my symptoms are truly improving over time.

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Dejavu

@RachelSusan  - thank you for clarifying that...lol! I was about to panic because after 2 days one 1/2 liquid and 1/2 pill, I went to all liquid tonight. Thank you also for confirming that I will feel normal again at some point. Hope it happens before I lose my business. Working is an impossibility right now. I know the "inner tremors" of which you speak. When they are severe, it's hard for me to even sit up. I just feel better lying down. You have really accomplished something with your taper. Would you say that slowing down allowed you to be more functional while you taper? In other words, does your life go on during this process, where every waking moment isn't taken up with thoughts of withdrawal? I would love to just get to that point.

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Dejavu

@composter, thank you again for the inspiration. I sure need it right now.  I'm not too sure how much more I can deal with. I cannot believe how long I've had to fight this battle already. The shock of finding out I was dependent on benzos after only one month of prescribed use was unholy. Then the pdoc put me on Zoloft to "help" with benzo w/d, saying zoloft was gentle and you could just "walk off" of it, and finding out that wasn't true either. 15 months of tapering klonopin, just to have to turn around and do it again on zoloft. Im. So. Exhausted.

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Songbird
6 hours ago, Dejavu said:

Today the anxiety has been vicious and unrelenting.

 

I found relaxation exercises the best thing for that ongoing severe anxiety.  They are great for calming the nervous system, helping to reduce anxiety and also encouraging sleep.  Some examples: progressive muscle relaxation, gentle yoga, calming breathing exercises, meditation, guided visualisation, etc.  I like to use recordings with gentle music and an instructor's voice telling me what to do so I don't have to think about it. They work best when done regularly – daily is good – but if your system is very agitated then multiple times a day can be helpful.  You may have good results immediately, but don’t give up if at first they don’t seem to be doing much, as their effect can build up over time. 

 

See:  Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

 

This is the one that helped me the most when I was in a really bad way:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/6122-relaxation-exercises-guided-meditations-calming-videos-sleep-hypnosis/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-390065

 

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RachelSusan
7 hours ago, Dejavu said:

Would you say that slowing down allowed you to be more functional while you taper? In other words, does your life go on during this process, where every waking moment isn't taken up with thoughts of withdrawal?

Hi Dejavu,

 

Yes, I have gotten to a point where the tapering works in the background and I do have a fairly normal life.  Not perfect, but really good. Sometimes when I taper too fast, or too much, I have withdrawal symptoms but for the most part they are very small and the whole thing is doable. 

 

You are in the worst part of it right now.  You are figuring out the right dosage and getting set up. The mods will help you. They are a lifeline. Just hang in.  Once you figure out where you need to be dosage wise try and stay there for a while you will start to recover. Also I know you have cog fog but still try and read as much on this site as you can.  Sometimes I read the same people over and over.  I would get one idea if I read someone's thread early in my withdrawal process then I would read the same thing a few months later and get a different idea and perhaps even have an ah-ha moment.  You will eventually become and expert on everything related to you and your tapering.  But for now, be very gentle with yourself. Forgive yourself for not being up to speed and not entertaining the family. Forgive yourself everything.  I had cog fog very bad and I would loose everything. I couldn't remember anything from moment to moment. In the big scheme of life it doesn't matter because it will pass. Getting well is all that matters, and you will get well.
 

And yes you are very focused on your withdrawal and all things related to withdrawal. That is perfectly normal.  How can you not be, it's with you 24 hours a day.  But that focus is what will lead you to becoming that withdrawal expert you need to be. It will fade once you regain your health.  And you will regain your health.

 

I read your thread and I can relate to so much of what you said. Doctors not believing in withdrawal.  Doctors telling us Zoloft is gentle, and so on.  It felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall to be believed. You don't have to fight that fight any more.  You just need to focus on you and take care of you. 

 

You will get well.

 

RS

 

 

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Dejavu

@RachelSusan, thank you so much for that! You, Songbird, Composter and Farmgirlworks really came through for me when I was in such a bad way yesterday - I am grateful and humbled. I hope that I can provide the same type of support for you and others very soon. I'm not used to being cared for; I'm usually the caretaker, which is I guess what led to my downfall to begin with. I hope you folks on here don't find me too needy. Its just that finding people who actually believe and understand is so incredible. A lifeline indeed! Thank you all again.❤

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Dejavu

Doing my best to think positive today. Good things that happened:

 

I had a long phone call with a friend/colleague about work without being severely triggered (my occupation is a major source of anxiety for me for many reasons). My friend was very supportive and reminded me that I was in this exact state at the beginning of my klonopin taper and I got much better after a couple of months of stabilization. I had forgotten that, but my husband confirms. 

 

While in the shower today, I began to have an anxiety attack, BUT was able to talk/breathe myself through it.

 

I listened to a self-guided meditation recommended by @Songbird, and it helped tremendously last night.

 

Although mornings are still hellish, I have been sleeping. Those of us who are fighting insomnia know what a blessing this is. Hope I didn't just jinx myself!!

 

Accupuncture for anxiety seems to work for me so far. So does l - theanine.

 

My appetite seems to be returning. May be a small thing, but it does indicate that my brain is changing and trying to get back to normal.

 

Anxiety, which only last week was regularly 9/10, now stays around 6-7/10, with a few daily spikes into 8-9/10. It is still awful, especially in the morning, but I think that is at least slow progress. I'll certainly take it.

 

I have a very solid support system who are committed to seeing me through this, Including the incredible people of this organization. Especially a wonderful husband who loves me and has been taking care of me while I can't take care of myself.

 

I have a feeling I will come out of this experience stronger and better. My naturopath is doing accupuncture and CBT with me, and I'm also working with a counselor who is unpacking my whole life and helping me transcend my past trauma.

 

There's also a lot of bad crap going on. But that's not my focus at the moment. It will all still be there when I get back to it. For tonight, I will work very hard to stay positive. This is very new for me, and ten minutes from now, it might all come crashing down. But I'm in the moment right now.

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Dejavu

@Songbird - my symptoms over last 2 days. 

 

Dec 12

3am - took 25mg hydroxyzine - fell asleep around 4am

 

8am - woke up w/o cortisol spike - went back to sleep quickly

 

Noon - woke up -anxiety 8/10 - depression 6/10 - weak/trem 6/10

 

1pm - walked 1 mile on treadmill - anxiety 6/10 - depression 6/10 - weak/trem 7/10 - ate lunch

 

3pm - anxiety 3/0 - almost fell asleep but woke w/ cortisol spike - anxiety 6/10 - depression 6/10 - weak/trem 6/10

 

6pm - anxiety 9/10 - depression 8/10 - took 20p mg l-theanine - weak/trem 7/10

 

7:30pm - anxiety 5/10 - depression 6/10 

8pm - ate dinner - appetite good - took 2600 mg fish oil - anxiety 6/10 - depression 5/10 - weak/trem 5/10

 

10pm - took 25 mg zoloft liquid - anxiety 6/10 - depression 6/10 - weak/trem 7/10 - headache 2/10 - muscle twitches 3/10

 

Dec 13

2:30am - took 200 mg l-theanine and listened to sleep hypnosis video

 

11:30am - woke up w/o cortisol spike, but anxiety crept in after 5 mins - anxiety 6/10 - depression 6/10 - weak/trem 6/10 - inner tremor 5/10 - diarhhea

 

3pm - phone convo w/friend - anxiety 6/10 - depression 7/10 - crying spell - inner tremor 4/10

 

6pm - felt short wave of positivity - anxiety 5/10 - depression 4/10 - weak/trem 6/10 - inner tremor 5/10

 

8pm - ate dinner - appetite normal - anxiety 4/10 - depression 5/10 - weak/trem 7/10 - inner tremor 6/10

 

10pm - took 25 mg liquid zoloft - triggered by reading withdrawal horror stories - anxiety7/10 - depression 6/10 - inner tremor 5/10 - weak/trem 4/10 - dizziness 3/10 crying spell

 

Do you see any improvement? I'm trying to look for patterns but I guess I'm a little foggy today and I can't really track too well. But I think I see appetite improvement and less crying. Do you think so? Should I try a lower dose to try and stabilize yet? Thank you for all your help.

 

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Dejavu

Mods: could I get an opinion as to whether or not I should attempt a cut yet, based on my symptoms? I'm trying to stabilize after reinstatement at what was probably too high a dose (25mg). I've gone to liquid for 4 days now, and that seems okay. I'm not feeling well, but unsure whether it's withdrawal or side effects, although I suspect mostly the latter, which would seem to argue for a small cut, yes? Sorry to pester, but I don't trust my own judgment and it goes without saying that I won't be following my doctor's advice, which is to "taper" in a week then start Buspar...yeah, that is not happening.  I want off - everything and for good! If not for this forum I would be completely lost. I've been reinstated on 25mg zoloft for about a month after a too-fast taper in September from 50mg. Felt all right during first week on 25mg but slowly felt worse with slight improvements over the last week. Any advice or suggestions, please?? Thanks for any help you can provide me.

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ChessieCat
23 minutes ago, Dejavu said:

 I've been reinstated on 25mg zoloft for about a month

 

11/18 - Reinstate 25 mg Zoloft; updose to 37.5 on 11/28

 

Did you increase to 37.5mg and then reduce?  Please include this in your drug signature so we don't have to read back through your posts to get the information.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 

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ChessieCat

I've just glanced back at some of your posts and noticed this.  Please include it in your drug signature.

 

On 12/6/2018 at 2:04 PM, Dejavu said:

Then a week of Lexapro

 

Edited by ChessieCat

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Dejavu

Gosh, sorry I'm so thick. Now I think it's all up to date.

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ChessieCat

Thanks.  It makes it much easier for the mods 😊

 

I'll ask the other mods for their assistance.

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Altostrata

Please post your daily notes. What's gotten better and what's gotten worse since you changed to all-liquid?

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Dejavu

@Altostrata, I'll post yesterday's notes in a bit. Its 3am here and hubby is asleep (wish I was) so I can't see my notes. I haven't the heart to wake him; he's doing everything for me these days. Not much has changed since the switch to liquid. Perhaps I'm less shaky and my legs may be a tad less weak sometimes. Anxiety is still a bear, but according to my notes, slightly improved. Sleep is not so good but I think it has more to do with my dread of morning anxiety than anything else. Digestion slightly better. No palps in a couple of days. 

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Aquarius

Hi dejavu so sorry you are going through this i have not read all your thread just the latest it could of been me writing this i feel as you do i made the mistake of doing a fast taper after a previous cold turkey i have been off 8 months and like you hate the mornings i know its coming but still struggle to deal witb it all i know its doesnt help your situation but you are not alone i feel the same 

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RachelSusan

Yes, for the longest time mornings were the worst for me.  I was reading your 3 am posting and said to myself, "been there, done that." I know that time frame very well. Many nights I too was on the computer while my husband was asleep next to me.  I now sleep fairly well.  It will improve.

 

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Altostrata
14 hours ago, Dejavu said:

@Altostrata, I'll post yesterday's notes in a bit. Its 3am here and hubby is asleep (wish I was) so I can't see my notes. I haven't the heart to wake him; he's doing everything for me these days. Not much has changed since the switch to liquid. Perhaps I'm less shaky and my legs may be a tad less weak sometimes. Anxiety is still a bear, but according to my notes, slightly improved. Sleep is not so good but I think it has more to do with my dread of morning anxiety than anything else. Digestion slightly better. No palps in a couple of days. 

 

Well, this is a good sign. Stabilizing occurs in small improvements.

 

Are you usually on the computer late at night? To improve your sleep, you'll want to go off the computer around nightfall, 8 or 9 p.m., and let your nervous system settle down.

 

You're taking Zoloft at night. Do you feel it makes you sleepy or do you feel it is activating?

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Dejavu

@Altostrata, good tip about the computer. Trying that tonight, thanks.

 

I've always taken my dose around 10pm. I think it neither stimulates nor sedates me. The side effects - weakness/tremor - tend to lessen the more time I put between me and my dose, so that if I take my dose at 10pm, by the next evening around 7 or so the weakness abates - sometimes almost completely - and I have at least a few waking hours of not feeling weak, if that makes sense. I actually doubt zoloft ever did anything for me except cause side effects. I never realized that at first because I was tapering klonopin and was only put on zoloft to "help" with that. I assumed the weakness was klonopin withdrawal. It was only when I went off zoloft completely and the weakness/tremor started to lessen and then just stopped that I figured out it had been the zoloft all along. Turns out I just walked off the klonopin with no w/d to speak of, but of course I did a 15 month symptom-based taper (although I often held longer than I probably needed to due to the weakness/tremor - which I now know wasn't the klonopin at all). So I can testify to the success of a slow taper. I just need to stabilize first. 

 

I had intended to attempt a small taper tonight in order to attempt stabilization. However, after posting last night, I had a bit of a setback. Both of my brothers (my only two surviving siblings) collapsed one week of each other of heart related issues, and both required open heart surgery at the same time last month. Early this morning, one of them was rushed back to the hospital with chest pains. I was there with him until about 8am, when I came home and tried to sleep, but only managed about 3 hours. Even though it looks like he will be okay, the whole experience badly triggered me (same hospital where my Mom died in June and my sister died last year), and my anxiety has been off the charts today and exacerbated every other symptom. So under the circumstances, do you think I should put off doing a dose reduction until I'm a little more calm? Or should I forge ahead in hopes of hastening stabilization? I think I know the answer, but would like to hear it from those more knowledgeable than myself. As always, many many thanks!!

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Altostrata

Yes, put off a dose reduction, no harm in letting your recent change settle more. It's helpful to observe your symptoms, as you are doing, and your emotional patterns, it will help you manage them.

 

I am sorry for your recent losses. You must have been very frightened for your brothers.

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Dejavu

You are so kind. Thank you.

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